Android and Trueplay



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The amount of tribalism and attachment toward profit-seeking corporations is funny. Consumerism at its finest.

Android users want a feature that's useful and rightfully feel left out and that their user needs are not being met. No, they're not entitled to TruePlay and making salty proclamations of ending their relationship with Sonos does essentially nothing. But they're Sonos users like anyone else, and are voicing a valid opinion that does have interesting context and questions around it.

Does Sonos see vastly higher user numbers on iOS and feel that Android users don't buy Sonos anyway? Do they think that TruePlay is a big draw and that adding it for Pixel/Galaxy will bring in more Android users, or do they feel like it doesn't really affect purchasing patterns? Are there technological limitations involved? We probably won't get a satisfying answer to these questions, but the end result is that Android users wish they could have a very useful feature, and are saying as much.

Personally I think it's inevitable that Sonos does expand TruePlay to Android to maximize the number of potential customers, but it all comes down to prioritization. Until that happens, all Android users can do is to continue making it known that there's a demand for it.

Why would Sonos narrow to Samsung / Pixel? Wouldn’t that make every other Android device owner angry? Or is it that you happen to own a Samsung / Pixel? 
 

If I recall, Samsung and other manufacturers has used different mics even within a single telephone line, so if Sonos were to see an Android phone of X type, it might have any of several different mics in it, and they couldn’t assume that all that line of phones have the same audio profile for the mics. 

Please add Android support. What is the reasoning here?

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

Well this is disappointing.  I literally don't know anyone who has an iPhone device.  Was going to get the arc soundbar, but will do some searching for alternatives instead...

Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

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Why? TruePlay is a nice thing, sometimes, but not a requirement to enjoy the Arc.

Indeed. I have ten Sonos devices and many iOS devices but have never bothered to even try Trueplay. It all sounds great to me.

.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

I don’t think that this would be well received, but there would be ptential new groups of complaints:

  • I don’t want to fumble with yet another device -- i already have a midrophone in my current device.
  • Why am I forced to buy something else, just to be able to use my system?
  • Android users - It’s already brult into Apple devides
  • This is complicated

.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

I don’t think that this would be well received, but there would be ptential new groups of complaints:

  • I don’t want to fumble with yet another device -- i already have a midrophone in my current device.
  • Why am I forced to buy something else, just to be able to use my system?
  • Android users - It’s already brult into Apple devides
  • This is complicated

I agree. It may be fine for some android users like myself, but won’t satisfy some or appear as another burden to others.  I don’t really think using a Move or Roam would be much different though, as the same arguements would apply.  Sure, you can use the portable speakers has value for other reasons obviously, but it’s going to cost you more, and some have no need for it otherwise.

In my imagination, Sonos doesn’t need to make and sell the microphone themselves, they can just get contracts with existing usb/lightning cable based mics that be purchased for cheap.  Just need a guarantee that the mic specifics won’t change?  Sonos could also drop support for trueplay in iphones/ipads natively lowering support costs.  Perhaps allowing them to sell the mics cheaper.  That wouldn’t stop all complaints though, and would probably create new ones.

Even if Sonos included a free mic with every purchase, people would complain about the eWaste. If Sonos made it free if you buy direct, their retail partners would complain.

As an aside, pro installers would love this as they would only need to buy one and would give customers a reason to go through them.

 

It does make me wonder if they never should have released TruePlay at all. Many people seem to think it is a silver bullet, and decry the lack of it.
 

Or at least kept it in reserve until there is a suitable alternative for all users. 

 

Since a lot of home receivers come with them, it probably was a checkbox they felt they needed to fill in.  Of course other vendor tuning and trueplay are not the same, and that perhaps was thought of as a positive and something that differentiated Sonos.  I do wonder if they regret the decision though.

But yes, I imagine Sonos would love to fine a good alternative.

 

 

 

 

Except, as I recall (and that may be faulty memory), the microphone in any single line of Android devices may not be the same across all of that model. So a (let’s pick one) Pixel X may have any of several different microphones, all somewhat similar, but not quite the same, in it. 

 

I would not be surprised if a similar situation exists on the Apple side as well now.  Still easier to manage on Apple side than all the android phone makers, but perhaps not as ideal as Sonos originally hoped.

I would be in favor of a separate tuning device as well.

Well this Android user won't be buying Sonos again.

Last speakers I bought were the Google nest speakers and I am a lot happier with them than my Sonos set. They sound just as good and integrate with my android and my Chromecast etc.

I did borrow an iPhone to tune my speakers and it made a big difference. Problem is now I've moved them since they sound awful. I don't even know how to reset them to factory.

I guess if you are bought into the whole apple ecosystem Sonos would be a better choice. But a user like myself using lots of Google home products and with an android phone, the choice to steer away from Sonos in future is obvious.

It’s a pity the mic in the Sonos Roam couldn’t do this I think, but there are perhaps some privacy issues preventing it.

 

Don’t know.  But, dreaming for a moment, it could be that Sonos is actually planning for a trueplay tuning device and doesn’t want to kill that market?  Just a random thought, but what if Sonos could make a portable mic/tuning device that you can place at the spot in the room where you want the primary focus to be, and your speakers would auto tune the timing and such to that space.  Could be very useful for larger spaces with multiple listen areas?  Possible could even be used with amp+passive speakers, for timing issues?   That could be useful to Apple users as well?  I am no expert at tuning though, so that could be completely wrong.

+1 for alternative options.  I dont know anyone who has apple to borrow off (one guy at work has an iphone, but hes not willing to lend it to me).  we have 3 android phones and 2 android tablets.  i have both umik-1 and a umik-2 which i use to with my amplifier calibration (on my windows xps laptop using dirac live).  The calibration is device independent (i plug the umik into my laptop and import the calibration file which is identified by serial number).  i would appreciate the option to run software e.g. on my laptop if android is not an option.

I don’t know, Danny. Given the retirement of all non-music hardware (dock, controllers) Sonos has made, I wonder if that may have made them skittish. Although you could argue that such a device is a more natural extension of the sound process. Given that I happen to have multiple iOS devices that all function for this purpose, it’s not been something I’ve been overly worried about, but I do understand the desire from others. 

 

That’s a good point.  And you could argue that the dock and controllers failed because technology moved on, making them unpopular in the market.  For me personally, the need to get a controller actually kept me out of Sonos for many years.  I could handle ~$400 for a way to play all the MP3s, stored on my computer in the office, in my living room.  Adding $400 for a controller was too much.  The free Sonos app was what got me to pull the trigger. That’s not a knock on those who loved the controller, just saying that it narrowed the market for Sonos.  And obviously, the dock became much less useful when Apple changed their port around and Sonos gained the ability to stream services directly.

It’s possible that a $150 mic (or whatever it costs) could act as a deterrent to sales, if android users feel like they have to have it on top of the cost of a speaker.  And it’s possible that a better technology could come around to replace it.  Don’t know.

Also wondering if such a device could be a good tool for professional installers.

 

The amount of tribalism and attachment toward profit-seeking corporations is funny. Consumerism at its finest.

 

 

People tend to claim that someone who disagrees with them must be subjective, while completely ignoring the objective arguments that have made.  There have been several logical arguments made in this thread.  If can show that the arguments are invalid, I would agree that myself and and others are just being fanboys.  However, just claiming subjectivity without backing it up really does get anywhere.

Android users want a feature that's useful and rightfully feel left out and that their user needs are not being met. No, they're not entitled to TruePlay and making salty proclamations of ending their relationship with Sonos does essentially nothing. But they're Sonos users like anyone else, and are voicing a valid opinion that does have interesting context and questions around it.

 

 

True.  And I don’t think there would be any disagreement if people only stated that they wanted android trueplay functionality.  But it usually doesn’t stop there, with people assuming the reason it doesn’t exist nefarious.

 

Does Sonos see vastly higher user numbers on iOS and feel that Android users don't buy Sonos anyway? Do they think that TruePlay is a big draw and that adding it for Pixel/Galaxy will bring in more Android users, or do they feel like it doesn't really affect purchasing patterns? Are there technological limitations involved? We probably won't get a satisfying answer to these questions, but the end result is that Android users wish they could have a very useful feature, and are saying as much.

 

Sonos stated along time ago that the reason was because of the lack of consistency in microphones on android phones.  It’s not a secret, although perhaps Sonos could state that more frequently.  The problem is that people tend to ignore answers they don’t like.  

 

Personally I think it's inevitable that Sonos does expand TruePlay to Android to maximize the number of potential customers, but it all comes down to prioritization. Until that happens, all Android users can do is to continue making it known that there's a demand for it.

 

You can only draw that conclusion if you don’t know the technical issues or just choose to ignore them.

 

I’m an android user myself, and I would definitely like to see a trueplay solution for non-Apple users.  I just don’t think it will happen by just putting trueplay software on android phones.

 

Given that MOVE and ROAM support auto Trueplay, I can imagine that SONOS will move in this direction for many products. It might be possible to use the microphone in a MOVE or ROAM to tune systems that do not include a microphone.

 

My impression is that auto Trueplay is the lesser cousin of regular trueplay.  So in that regard, Sonos doesn’t want to equip their non-mobile speakers with auto trueplay...as it would be step down?  I could see using the Roam as the mic, as it’s easy to move around like your phone.  The Move seems too big and heavy for that.    I’d like to see Sonos come out with a separate mic device, possibly something that connects to your phone to keep costs down.  If it can work on android and apple devices, than it remove the need to test trueplay with each new Apple device.  

I would guess Sonos is a bit concerned with giving customers the impression that trueplay is essential for Sonos speakers.  They don’t want customers thinking they must have Apple, or buy a Roam or some other mic device  as a startup fee.  I think they also have marketing data that gives them an idea of how well Roams or other mic device would sell if they went that route.  I really hope they are already working on a mic device, but no clue whether that’s happening or not.

 

 

While in concept, I agree with you, Danny, I do think that the “average” user, whomever that is, wouldn’t quite understand the concept, and there would be substantial customer service issues if that were to be implemented in that fashion. Great for the “advanced” user, but not so great for the casual user, who doesn’t understand all of the surrounding potential issues. And, at least in my opinion, Sonos is going after the “average” user, not the advanced/audiophile  (whatever that means, likely $) market. 

I’d suspect there are a raft of things they could add to the controller in various places to satisfy a lot of the requests that are given in these forums. But they’d just make setup more complex for “Mom” or “Grandpa” who are equally part of the Sonos market. And provide them with additional ways to actually make things sound worse, rather than better. 

It’s a fine line, but Sonos seems to be walking it profitably for now. Sometimes I concur with them, sometimes I want just that little bit more….but then I do recognize that I am not specifically their target market. 

 

Understood, I just seeing if there were ways that a microphone device could appeal to more than just the android side of the market.

Just bought Beam gen 2. “Borrow an iphone from a friend” to utilize an important feature that is advertised as part of this 500 euro product? 
Nah, there’s options out there Sonos. Good alternative options.
Back to the box.

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Hi @ihavoc, thanks for reaching out to the Sonos Community.

While it may not be specified on the Arc page that an iOS device is required for Trueplay, you can find here a list of Trueplay compatible devices, and it’s also stated on the main TruePlay page that an iOS device is required - that being said I’ll be happy to pass on your feedback to make it a little more obvious.

Regarding the different models of each iPhone line having different microphones - while this is true, the number of different models of phone running Android operating systems is on a different scale (a quick Google search showed 24,000 different models in 2015), with potentially thousands of different models of microphone installed, and different combinations of microphone, OS, and other hardware components. While we would love to bring Trueplay support to all Sonos systems, accounting for that level of variability in a process which requires precise measurements like Trueplay is unfortunately not feasible.

I do agree though that bringing Trueplay to non-iOS households (like my own) would be a great improvement, and hopefully it’s something that will be possible in the future.

I’m also somewhat sensitive to the whole “I read about it in the forums, it must be happening” phenomenon…. :) 

I don’t mind speculation, I just worry when neophytes don’t understand that it’s merely thought, and not a promise that Sonos is doing something. 

Hi everyone. Trying to skip over if it is right or not for Sonos to not have trueplay for Android. I did just get my first Sonos product which is an ARC. We have no Apple devices in our house but I am hoping to ask a neighbor to borrow theirs to do the one time trueplay tuning. That being said, what minimum iPhone should they have, and what would they need to do on their end before letting me borrow the phone? I am assuming that they need to download the Sonos App, then I just need to log into my account and find the trueplay setting in the app. Is that correct? Anything else?

 It's very basic and convenient software that's been available on most home receivers for the past decade. 

 

Software is not the issue. These receivers are using a microphone of known characteristics. With Android devices, each model phone will have different microphone characteristics and these characteristics change during production. In order to achieve reliable results, SONOS would need to test each production run of Android phones and develop a database of microphone characteristics by phone serial number. Given the number of Android production runs, past and present, this is not a practical project.

Would you be willing to submit your Android to a service facility and have it’s microphone calibrated?

Most of what you’re asking is covered in the FAQ

Yes, you’d just need to download the app on their device, log in to your Sonos account, and do the process. Once it’s there, it sticks on the speakers memory, like most everything else, and you can turn it on or off using your Android device. 

In addition to the raw microphone characteristics, case construction is in the mix. Also, how long do we need to wait before we know what the best selling Androids will be in a given year? Although this is not a scientific sample, my techie friends all have Androids, but a majority of people I encounter who own SONOS systems, use iPhones.

The SONOS database knows the iOS/Android ratio and may be aware of model numbers, but is unlikely to be able to track variations during production runs. SONOS would need to accumulate at least a year’s worth of data before deciding which Android models warrant further research. Then SONOS would need to sample units from different production runs in order to decide if it would be practical to develop a profile for that model. Regardless, millions of users who don’t own that model would be disappointed and grumbling that SONOS ignored the “best” Android.

Although this is not a scientific sample, my techie friends all have Androids, but a majority of people I encounter who own SONOS systems, use iPhones.

 

Digressing a little: I can completely understand the latter part quoted, but I also find it ironic/funny that there are some vocal fans of Sonos here who are also Apple haters, largely because - hold your breath - Apple is a closed system...:rofl:

Thank you @Airgetlam seems simple enough. Not ideal but certainly not horrible since you only have to do it once.

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