I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"! Especially after3+ years!!! First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems. Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model. So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water. Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend. Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion. I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.
+21
The reason I’d like a dedicated mike is I am tired of buying replacements for my Apple whatever when it ages out and Sonos drops support for it.
Now I am not like other people. If the cost is less than half of a new apple device, then I would be willing to buy something. I am going to have 3-4 rooms with several devices so that is a reasonable expense. I suggest enabling the Roam with microphone as a work around. I would be willing to buy one.
I would be good with the Roams as tuning mic as well. Not sure that that is possible, and I’m sure many would be offended by a $180 tuning mic. If it were possible but the required code didn’t fit in with Roams other functions, I would even be ok with having to do a factory reset to put it in ‘tuning mode’.
Completely unrelated, but I also like the idea of putting the Roam in “voice remote” mode and bonding to Sonos room that does’t have any voice mics in it. You can effectively do this now, but you have to remember to state the room name. I really just think the form factor of the Roam, and think it could be used in many different ways.
SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).
Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.
Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.
Now I am not like other people. If the cost is less than half of a new apple device, then I would be willing to buy something. I am going to have 3-4 rooms with several devices so that is a reasonable expense. I suggest enabling the Roam with microphone as a work around. I would be willing to buy one.
Clearly passionate defense of status quo.
Should be pretty easy to logically debunk that defense then.
Nevertheless, for the global smartphone market, more than 70 percent are Android as of 2022, according to Statcounter. Maybe Sonos is comfortable limiting themselves to half the US market?
Your link is to worldwide data. Here is the US only data, showing android at around 44%. However, neither is fully relevant since Sonos does not operate in every country in the world, and the demographic of typical Sonos customer likely does match the general population of smartphone user. I mean, a 12 year old kid has a smartphone, but they aren’t buying Sonos anything
But for the sake of argument, let’s say android is 50% of Sonos market. You still have to factor in that many can borrow an idevice or choose to go without. Suggesting that Sonos is limiting themselves to half the US market assumes android users can’t use Sonos, which is just not true. And you still have to factor in the dev costs for the variety of mics on androids vs idevice.
I would love to see trueplay on android, or a separate mic device, personally. I’m just saying that it’s not too surprising that Sonos hasn’t done this considering what we know.
Clearly passionate defense of status quo. Nevertheless, for the global smartphone market, more than 70 percent are Android as of 2022, according to Statcounter. Maybe Sonos is comfortable limiting themselves to half the US market?
Hmmmm. Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product. For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?
I could be off on this, but I believe other tuning methods have you place the wired mic at the seating location and they tune from that. Trueplay tuning is different. Besides the fact that the Arc doesn’t have a port for such a mic, you probably would be required to connect the mic to your phone so that it could be waved around the room.
Hmmmm. Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product. For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?
Considering they’d have to retool the line to incorporate that new plug connection into an existing design, it would cost a considerable amount.
SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).
Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.
Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.
I’ve noticed that every time Apple comes out with a new iDevice, it’s several months before Sonos releases Trueplay support for the device. That makes me think it’s not just a matter of calibrating the mic on the device in order to make trueplay function properly. Also, whatever dev and testing that needs to be done outside of mic calibration. is not trivial, otherwise it would be released within a couple weeks at the most. Also also, it seems possible, maybe likely, that if Sonos made their own mic device, that Sonos would offset the cost by stopping the continual dev and testing of trueplay via iDevices while also increasing the market size. Obviously, that would make a lot of people unhappy as well.
And one last thing. These are essentially single use devices. Example, someone who just set a home theatre with no plans for expansion will likely avoid buying the device. If installed professionally, the installer will tune it with his own device rather than selling one to the customer. If you install yourself, you may decide to go without, borrow from a friend, or a buy a used one. If you do buy one, you don’t need it afterwards, so you can sell it or just give it away. The point is that the actual market size for this device is probably much smaller than the number of Sonos households.
Hmmmm. Bose and Samsung to name a couple of high end’s that have included necessary sound pick-up within the product. For the ARC, how much could it cost to add a mic on a plug-in wire that would give you absolutely control over the sound pickup?
SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).
Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.
Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.
+17
As explained on many occasions the main reason for this is there are a lot of different microphones used in different Android phones. Since there are a lot less iPhone models, there’s a lot less difference in micorphones.
I bought the Arc, 2 One SLs as surrounds and a One (gen2) in another room knowing that I would not be able to use Trueplay on my Android. This was with the expectation that this would eventually be resolved.
I work with software development with a focus on firmware and I know how hard it can be to align firmware(speakers) with web and app APIs. I am curious if there is a technical reason why it is not yet supported or whether there is an exclusive agreement as you see with game companies and consoles.
So once again if there is a technical issue, is this Sonos waiting on a future change to Android, difficulties integrating with Android for some existing issue or lack of development resources?
I do not have any friends with Apple devices since they are expensive and most people don’t just have one Appple device, they need to convert all (most) existing devices to get the best results.
Android users have been complaining about not being able to do Trueplay tuning for years yet they still continue to purchase Sonos products. Sonos must be doing something right.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Why all the negativity towards a certain group, why should they (we) be excluded from the full experience?
Ditto. Sonos should provide mic like my Bose did for room tuning.
Late to the party, I wish I could say I am surprised this is a thing.
I’ve been impressed by Sonos so far but exclusivity for any product is a massive turnoff. Lack of AUX in, an oddly restrictive feature set on the amp and now this. I’ll save the rant for another thread.
If Sonos is all about it’s customers, they could simply release an Android BETA, add on a few YMMV disclaimers inside the app and let us work out what phones give a good result in the forums. Then maybe over time support a confirmed subset of devices - Galaxy S and Pixel could be sufficient.
Any Android user on the platform for longer than a minute understands that cheaper devices come at a cost and there are no guarantees. It’s both a strength and weakness of the platform.
Wish I would have bought Bose!!!
So you wish you bought a brand which has no way to automatically tune for your room because the one which does automatically tune for your room requires a specific device?
I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"! Especially after3+ years!!! First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems. Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model. So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water. Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend. Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion. I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.
Wish I would have bought Bose!!!
Do a search on “Android Trueplay” and you will see it is impossible due to quality differences in Android microphones. The mics used in Apple are all made with the same specifications. With Android they can vary greatly even within the same model, depending on where and when it was manufactured.
Many have requested the ability to use a standard external microphone, but Sonos has never commented on this request.
I’m confused by your statement. The TruePlay tuning is stored on the speakers, until erased by doing another TruePlay tuning. Once it’s done, you can turn it off or on, using the Android devices. There is zero requirement, once TruePlay is done, for there to be a iOS device in the house.
I use two sonos five on stereo as test system befor going further with sonos or not.
After first setup the "standard sound" is disappointing to say it nice. I thought about sending both back. Accidentally a friend dropped and i used her iPhone for this true play stuff and then the sound is, well, ok.
But the system is designated for our cottage where nobody has a iPhone. Again the sound is not bad but far beyond to be good. As long as no iPhone addict drops in Sonos is good as a radio background player.
Before, i had several other Sonos products on the list but didn't buy any, because of this annoying fact.
+21
I got one of these from ebay.
Apple iPod touch 6th Generation Space Gray (16 GB). Model A1574.
Similar ones: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2553889.m570.l1313&_nkw=Apple+iPod+touch+6th+Generation&_sacat=0
No idea what prices will be like with Apple ending production.
No idea about ongoing firmware / OS updates from Apple.
No idea what Sonos is going to do about supporting them either.
Anybody have any idea what "a cheap Apple dingus off ebay to solve my TruePlay issues" Stanley_4 was referring to?.
+1 for alternative options. I dont know anyone who has apple to borrow off (one guy at work has an iphone, but hes not willing to lend it to me). we have 3 android phones and 2 android tablets. i have both umik-1 and a umik-2 which i use to with my amplifier calibration (on my windows xps laptop using dirac live). The calibration is device independent (i plug the umik into my laptop and import the calibration file which is identified by serial number). i would appreciate the option to run software e.g. on my laptop if android is not an option.
It’s not likely that regular folk will want to invest another $40 or $80 when so many complain about the cost of SONOS products. And there will certainly be complaints that Apple users don’t need to incur this expanse.
With regard to the cost of SONOS products ‘overpriced’ or not depends on the point of view. If one is expecting a SONOS unit to be a simple Bluetooth computer or phone accessory, SONOS is expensive. I’ve seen $10 Bluetooth speakers hanging on department store pegs near the checkout counter. However, in the context of whole house audio, SONOS is not expensive and it works better and has a more consistent user interface than other products. SONOS will support up to 32 rooms. Look at other products and most will hit a limit at less than 10 rooms. Also, SONOS players from 2005 are still viable.
+21
$80 for a mike that is going to need fiddling doesn’t sound great.
My used Apple iPod touch 6th Generation (16 GB) cost about that.
Calibration of the mics is done with a file that's loaded to the measurement software. Just like in any professional case it would be done. No mic is "calibrated" from factory, there's always manufacturing tolerances. The whole idea of calibration is measuring the deviation of the microphone once it's ready and adjusting the measurements to that unit's deviation. This might come as a surprise to some iDevice fans, but their device's microphones are not calibrated. Sonos has probably measured a few samples and created an average "calibration" for said devices but in reality they're just as useful as any random microphone off the shelf (or in any Android device). No two microphones will give the same measurement if they're not uniquely calibrated after manufacturing. So if it's too bold to say assume everyone's got a calibrated mic I'd say assume no one's got a calibrated mic and throw one in the box with the speakers.
And yeah the microphones I mentioned do work on android devices. I've tested. And I can use the supplied calibration files too so I can make reliable and repeatable measurements with either one. But you do need a 3,5 mm connector for the Dayton or USB OTG for Umik so I guess iDevices are out of luck?
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