Android and Trueplay


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I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.

Xander P 3 years ago

Hi @ihavoc, thanks for reaching out to the Sonos Community.

While it may not be specified on the Arc page that an iOS device is required for Trueplay, you can find here a list of Trueplay compatible devices, and it’s also stated on the main TruePlay page that an iOS device is required - that being said I’ll be happy to pass on your feedback to make it a little more obvious.

Regarding the different models of each iPhone line having different microphones - while this is true, the number of different models of phone running Android operating systems is on a different scale (a quick Google search showed 24,000 different models in 2015), with potentially thousands of different models of microphone installed, and different combinations of microphone, OS, and other hardware components. While we would love to bring Trueplay support to all Sonos systems, accounting for that level of variability in a process which requires precise measurements like Trueplay is unfortunately not feasible.

I do agree though that bringing Trueplay to non-iOS households (like my own) would be a great improvement, and hopefully it’s something that will be possible in the future.

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@buzz the suggestion is for a specific usb microphone so your point about different mics in android devices is irrelevant in that case. Sonos can hand pick the pic from another manufacturer, maybe one they are already partnered with, or manufacturer their own. That “dedicated” mic may well have a much better frequency response than an iOS device mic so the tuning process would be more accurate. It may even be an option iOS owners would be inclined to purchase if the results were more successful.

It’s technically feasible, assuming the mic is the only constraint at play. It’s down to Sonos if they feel their ROI would be met by mic purchases and/or making the Sonos experience more consistent for their customers. I would imagine the latter was their reason for developing Truplay to start with.

I wonder has anyone ever encountered differing tuning results from different iOS devices. 

It would be possible to include a calibrated microphone with a SONOS product. Unfortunately, there is a small universe of connector types and phone users would be annoyed if the connector did not match MY phone. Of course, a calibrated microphone could be plugged into a SONOS product that does not include a built-in microphone, but older SONOS products do not include a connector that could be used for a microphone.

Trueplay is an interesting technique because it can characterize the room environment better than a microphone sitting at a fixed point.

With the current Trueplay approach it is unlikely that the user will misplace the phone. For many users this is a big advantage.

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A static microphone is never going to be equivalent to the current method/technique. If it’s sub-standard to the current method in terms of results it’s not worth it as I doubt many will use it.

It needs to be movable in the same way the phone is. USB-C is the standard on all phones now, even iPhones, so I would guess any future prospect needs to align to that. Or Bluetooth but I can imagine all sorts of curveballs with BT.

I also think including it with the product is wrong as that inflates the price for those who don’t want, or would never use it. I’ve no problem paying for the privilege. Others may have a problem and for those they can use/borrow an iOS device.

I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"!  Especially after3+ years!!!  First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with.  Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems.  Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model.  So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water.   Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend.  Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion.  I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.

Strongly agree and applaud you on your honest and fair assessment of the Sonos product.

I included it with other links to opinions that expose the drama and pretentiousness of the product, to some guys that asked me about my system.

I know two of the guys are not as bullish on Sonos anymore after hearing the experience I was listening to.

Now I have to figure out why a One SL doesn't like being connected to the Ethernet.

I doubt any Sonos product will last as long as my legacy audio/video, including my SelectaVision video disc player and Yamaha YPD-6 turntable (from a 1978 purchase).

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I doubt any Sonos product will last as long as my legacy audio/video, including my SelectaVision video disc player and Yamaha YPD-6 turntable (from a 1978 purchase).

 

Almost certainly true. But is it a fair comparison?
 

The capabilities Sonos offers need a computer to achieve it. How many domestic products with built-in computers do you know that are (a) still functional, (b) still supported by their manufacturer, and (c) still receiving updates? 

Quite honestly, I find it ridiculous that Sonos still hasn’t solved this issue. A USB C microphone could solve this problem once and for all. Especially considering iPhones now use USB C, as well. I would think that this would actually simplify the process for them when a new iPhone releases, too.

That being said, if Sonos refuses to release a dedicated microphone, they could at least support Samsung’s flagships and the Google Pixel line. Those likely account for the majority of their Android user base, anyway.

My response to nik9669a, 

I believe it is a very fair comparison and is a "no excuses" metric...does the piece of perform its intended function without interference or restrictions by the manufacturer?

I only need to check my wires, connections and fuses before I enjoy my legacy equipment. 

When this company adds the "drama of a adolescent" into its product line, this so called premium audio equipment with all its technical prowess, that requires one to borrow an iOS device to set up Trueplay, tells me and others I discuss this with, this is planned, and I spent a bunch of money on equipment that I am really only renting from the manufacturer before it goes to a landfill.

The simple fact is the C Suite chose to discriminate against people who purchased Sonos and have Android based phones, regardless of the quality of the phone running Android. 

I wonder how the C Suite can be so blind with Sonos, like the way RIM was with BlackBerry? 

Good grief, "C suite?"  Discrimination?  Because of a phone choice?  Think about that for a second.  🤣

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Would Sonos requiring only Android users to buy a microphone for set up not also be seen as “discrimination”? If you bring this frame into what is, as I believe, a purely technical discussion, it will never end.

It's no secret that Sonos is not happy with Google because of the theft of Sonos' proprietary intellectual property.

But to say that the quality of the microphone in a Samsung phone lacks the technical ability to positively affect Trueplay is the sign of someone in the C Suite that is all butt hurt and wants revenge anyway possible towards Google.

Unless the device can be calibrated prior to testing, there is no technical difference between iOS & Android on a phone and if Sonos can set up Trueplay for iOS, it can be done for Android.

Sonos can have Trueplay work with Android, Sonos chooses not to allow that.

If Sonos requires only Android users to purchase an external mic, citing that Android phones lack a technically qualified mic, without introducing mic calibration on either platform, what word best describes treating one group differently because of ideology?

I believe that Sonos is going to suffer the same fate the BlackBerry phone went through - a management team so wrongly focused it doesn't see the disruption coming its way - and then some other company hands Sonos their butt because that hungry company can't afford to put out a product limited by executive ego, drama and narrow-mindedness.

 

I believe that Sonos is going to suffer the same fate the BlackBerry phone went through 

Hi. I have been a fairly active member of this community for a decade now and have lost count of the number of times I have seen this prediction. The only thing that changes is the reason given for why this Is going to happen. 

It's no secret that Sonos is not happy with Google because of the theft of Sonos' proprietary intellectual property.

But to say that the quality of the microphone in a Samsung phone lacks the technical ability to positively affect Trueplay is the sign of someone in the C Suite that is all butt hurt and wants revenge anyway possible towards Google.

Unless the device can be calibrated prior to testing, there is no technical difference between iOS & Android on a phone and if Sonos can set up Trueplay for iOS, it can be done for Android.

Sonos can have Trueplay work with Android, Sonos chooses not to allow that.

If Sonos requires only Android users to purchase an external mic, citing that Android phones lack a technically qualified mic, without introducing mic calibration on either platform, what word best describes treating one group differently because of ideology?

I believe that Sonos is going to suffer the same fate the BlackBerry phone went through - a management team so wrongly focused it doesn't see the disruption coming its way - and then some other company hands Sonos their butt because that hungry company can't afford to put out a product limited by executive ego, drama and narrow-mindedness.

 

Nice to know you are privy to the inner workings of a corporation.  It’s either that, or you have made up this entire fantasy in your head in order to justify . . . something.  

Hi. I have been a fairly active member of this community for a decade now and have lost count of the number of times I have seen this prediction. The only thing that changes is the reason given for why this Is going to happen. 

 

The death of Sonos due to some perceived slight is rivaled only by the threat of class action lawsuits, neither of which has seen the light of day in the almost 2 decades Sonos has existed.  This one is extra hilarious because Trueplay has been around without Android support for going on 9 years.  You’d think if no Android support meant Sonos suffering the same fate as Blackberry, it would have happened by now.  

Here in the Community we don’t know the percentage of Apple vs Android users. Based on my own observations, tech orientated users often use Android and non tech users almost always use Apple controllers. Users looking for the lowest price will use Android.

If you want to claim that SONOS made a mistake, the original mistake was to offer Apple users a free, convenient way to improve their audio system with Trueplay. This was possible for Apple products because of the limited number of microphones to deal with. Even if one assumes that the microphone characteristics for the entire run of an Android model are identical (there are debates about this point), there are many, many models and manufacturers, each potentially using a different microphone and microphone placement in the phone/pad body.

The cheap Android users may not want to invest in SONOS, regardless of features, and would certainly chafe at the idea of needing to purchase a separate calibration device -- especially if Apple users did not need this device. Overall it would be cheaper for SONOS to give up the idea of using Apple products for Trueplay and simply raise prices and add the calibration device into the package. 

If Sonos had never introduced Trueplay on iOS, Android users would be entirely happy with their setup, which would have sounded and cost the same as now.  But out of some crazed jealousy towards iOS users, in the eyes of a small minority of Android users, somebody else’s good fortune becomes their bad luck

FWIW, I am an Android user, but one whose wife has an iPad.)  Many Android users will be able to borrow an iOS device' from friends or family for the few minutes required.

It seems clear that for newer products Sonos is moving away from using external devices in tuning, a much more controllable approach.

 

Overall it would be cheaper for SONOS to give up the idea of using Apple products for Trueplay and simply raise prices and add the calibration device into the package. 

 

I would like to see Sonos sell a calibration device, or USB mic, sold separately.  While I get that the market may be small, it probably isn’t smaller than the market for those who want a wireless charger for their Roam, for example.  I don’t want to continually pay for, or really even receive, tech products I don’t need. I mean, I have a few optical to HDMI convertors I’ve never used stored in a drawer somewhere.  

Alternatively, you could include a calibration device option for free when ordering from Sonos, so that you only receive it you want or need it.

 

It seems clear that for newer products Sonos is moving away from using external devices in tuning, a much more controllable approach.

 

 

I don’t think it’s quite like that.  Sonos adopted the quick tuning for their portable devices because it doesn’t make sense to retune portables everytime they are move. The quick tune was never meant to be as good or a replacement for full trueplay tuning.  I think the reason it got adopted on non-portables as well was because it was easy to implment and would make some customers happy.  Quicktuning has not been implemented on any home theatre setup, and we’ll have to see if that changes in the future.

I play an audio file from my server to a pair of One SLs at 35 now, (Trueplay enabled) where I used to play the same file at a volume of 13 and the only change has been an update making the iOS system on my iPhone 6 not supported. 

This goes back to my point that my 40 year old, plug in turn up and sit down, legacy equipment is still going to be working 25 years from now, but in all likelihood our Sonos products may require some sort of physical reprogramming to remain viable, imo

​​​​​​btw, a shout out to all those who have participated with me and my rant, thank you. 

 

 

Participated?  I don't think that word means what you think it does.  But you were dead on with the meaning of rant, I'll give you that.

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Does it matter what number is showing in the app?

And indeed all computer based devices will have a shorter usable life than non-connected devices.

The numbers were used so that a person could understand my reference as to the difference between the sound the system produced prior to the downgrade that resulted when my iPhone 6 was no longer supported. 

I know of no other way to offer a means of reference regarding the differences in sound level, how would you have done it? 

 

The numbers were used so that a person could understand my reference as to the difference between the sound the system produced prior to the downgrade that resulted when my iPhone 6 was no longer supported. 

I know of no other way to offer a means of reference regarding the differences in sound level, how would you have done it? 

 

 

This doesn’t really make sense. When playing audio files from your local library, the audio signal does not travel through your phone or whatever device you may be using for control.  The connection is between where ever you file is located and the speaker(s) themselves.  So any sort of code change, are drop in support in this case, of a phone should have no impact on playback really.  The changes would be in the source file or on the firmware of speakers themselves.  

If you want to verify this, start playback of your files, then shut off all your phones/tablets, etc.  Music will continue to play on.

I don't know how better to explain it  but my Sonos system is playing the same file.

Using the Sonos app, I was listening to an audio file off my server on a pair of One SLs in my bedroom, at a volume setting with a numerical value of 13 (but I am now using 33 at this time).

The bedroom and basement pair of One SLs and the 5.1 system were all setup using Trueplay on my iPhone 6.

I introduced another pair of One SLs (1from the garage & 1 from the sunroom) but was not able to setup Trueplay because the operating system is not longer supported on my iPhone 6.

Over time, I noticed there was  sound degradation from the apps I was using inside the Sonos app.

I also started to notice, when I would switch between running the complete system as one or separate rooms and then back to whole system, at different times, the bedroom & the basement pairs did not sound as brilliant and bright, from room to room.

I did a Google search and and found out that the Maserati of Wi-Fi Speakers requires that I go to their approved third party to tune my system if I wanted to get my sound back to the way it was, apparently.

I'd be pissed too if someone ripped off my proprietary intellectual property but the drama created by product vendor that can alter and control their purchased product and be able to render that product no longer unsupported goes right back to my original point that the Sonos products that I am listening to today will not be a functional device in 20 years (without modification of the vendor's no longer supported settings), the same way my 40 yo legacy equipment works now.

 

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I don't know how better to explain it  but my Sonos system is playing the same file.

Using the Sonos app, I was listening to an audio file off my server on a pair of One SLs in my bedroom, at a volume setting with a numerical value of 13 (but I am now using 33 at this time).

The bedroom and basement pair of One SLs and the 5.1 system were all setup using Trueplay on my iPhone 6.

I introduced another pair of One SLs (1from the garage & 1 from the sunroom) but was not able to setup Trueplay because the operating system is not longer supported on my iPhone 6.

Over time, I noticed there was  sound degradation from the apps I was using inside the Sonos app.

I also started to notice, when I would switch between running the complete system as one or separate rooms and then back to whole system, at different times, the bedroom & the basement pairs did not sound as brilliant and bright, from room to room.

I did a Google search and and found out that the Maserati of Wi-Fi Speakers requires that I go to their approved third party to tune my system if I wanted to get my sound back to the way it was, apparently.

I'd be pissed too if someone ripped off my proprietary intellectual property but the drama created by product vendor that can alter and control their purchased product and be able to render that product no longer unsupported goes right back to my original point that the Sonos products that I am listening to today will not be a functional device in 20 years (without modification of the vendor's no longer supported settings), the same way my 40 yo legacy equipment works now.

 

A couple of points. 
 

First: the Sonos app on your phone is a “controller” rather than a “player”. When, in the app on your phone, you start “play album x on speakers an and b” the computer built into those speakers connects to your home library and initiates the play. The app has nothing more to do with it. Where you say “Over time, I noticed there was  sound degradation from the apps I was using inside the Sonos app” makes no sense: there is no app within the Sonos app  

Second: the computer within each of our Sonos speakers will indeed become obsolete at some time. How many computers bought 20 years ago are still functioning effectively today? (There are still many S1 Sonos devices out there!) How many non-Sonos computers do you expect to be functional 20 years from now? A “dumb” tuner/amp/passive speaker setup will indeed still work - unless the radio frequencies are shut down for commercial use, of course, or frequencies outside of those currently licenced become available. 

To answer your question "How many computers bought 20 years ago are still functioning effectively today?", I have 3 plus a server: 1 is an IBM mini tower with a Pentium 2 and 286 megs of RAM running XP, #2 is a Compaq DeskPro tower with a Pentium Ill & running XP, #3 is a Gateway tower running Windows ME with a Pentium Ill, as well as a HP MediaSmart Server running Windows Server 2003 (with a 12 TB HDD attached via USB).

Anyways, I was finally able to convince someone to install the Sonos app on their iPhone so that I could finally use Trueplay.

I will wait and see how the system is after I have been using for a while but the initial results were a let down.

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If the Android mic is indeed the limiting factor, I don't see why a Sonos mic plugged into an Android phone's usb port wouldn't be the solution.  As a Samsung phone owner, I'm feeling a bit oppressed by the man. 

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