I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"! Especially after3+ years!!! First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems. Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model. So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water. Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend. Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion. I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.
Something as simple as changing the furniture in you room can effect the acoustical sound even with the Sonos in the same location.
Also another user posted he sent his Sonos in for repair and he lost the TruePlay settings when returned.
Just wanted to make you aware it may not be a one and done
Just one microphone and individuals get their own adaptor if needed?
I have read the thread on no Android integration for Trueplay, but I would hope spending 1500 on a system there would be a better solution than "borrow an iOS device from a friend"! Especially after3+ years!!! First thought, if it is a microphone issue, then standardize your system with 1 mic to calibrate your system with. Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer etc ALL provide a setup mic with their systems. Microphones among iOS devices also differ, they are different from year to year and model to model. So that verbage doesn't add up or holdmuch water. Second, before the android bashing begins, I bet the cost of my system if the table was turned and it only worked on android and not iOS devices, there would be a loud outcry of Apple users, especially if told to go "borrow" an android from a friend. Not that this will change anything but I got to express my opinion. I'm the proud owner of a top-of-the-line Sonos system that is"Meh" at best.
Sonos would have to buy one of every model and buy another if any changes were made to the microphone circuitry.
The USB attached mike is a much more simpler fix.
I would think all of the software would be on the speakers.
Actually all the heavy processing for the Trueplay tuning is carried out on the iDevice. The filters are then uploaded to the speakers.
https://tech-blog.sonos.com/posts/trueplay-spectral-correction/
Scroll down to the section headed “Trueplay can help!”
Honestly the Sonos Arc will be my first and last Sonos device unless they change this stance and others. As others have stated nothing on the Sonos Arc main page mentions TruePlay is iOS only. In my opinion this is very deceptive in their marketing. From the Sonos Arc main page below.
“Tuned to perfection
Trueplay tuning technology optimizes the sound for the unique acoustics of the room where Arc is placed, calibrating the height channels for precise localization.”
The omission of DTS, which I did know going into buying the Arc, is just dumb, charge extra for a DTS model. A lot of people are going out and buying a HDFury Arcana to solve LipSync issues because of a lack of an HDMI input on the device. Another poor design decision. If it wasn’t for the rave reviews of the Arc on sound quality I would have passed.
I would gladly buy an approved or official Sonos mic to plug into my android device to run tune my Arc. I work for a Vendor myself and nothing pisses customers off more than a nonchalant answer like borrow a friends iPhone. Borrowing an iPhone is not easy for me, especially in COVID days, almost all my friends and family use Android.
Lastly if I decide to move my device to another TV or rearrange my room I need to inconvenience someone else so I can tune my Sonos is absurd.
I thought when I bought the Arc it was going to be the beginning of a larger Sonos rollout in my house but sadly I will be looking for alternatives.
Ok but other products like bose provides all of their customers a way to tune their system because it's common sense that not everyone give 1 crap about ios devices
I think that having sold almost 30 million units, and expecting to double their revenue by 2024 (mostly at the cost of Android users), Sonos could afford to buy AT LEAST phones from the biggest brands in the Android market, and test them in order to get to know their microphone frequencies response, and make Trueplay available for those. The idea of borrowing an iPhone from a friend is just ridiculous...
The amount of tribalism and attachment toward profit-seeking corporations is funny. Consumerism at its finest.
Android users want a feature that's useful and rightfully feel left out and that their user needs are not being met. No, they're not entitled to TruePlay and making salty proclamations of ending their relationship with Sonos does essentially nothing. But they're Sonos users like anyone else, and are voicing a valid opinion that does have interesting context and questions around it.
Does Sonos see vastly higher user numbers on iOS and feel that Android users don't buy Sonos anyway? Do they think that TruePlay is a big draw and that adding it for Pixel/Galaxy will bring in more Android users, or do they feel like it doesn't really affect purchasing patterns? Are there technological limitations involved? We probably won't get a satisfying answer to these questions, but the end result is that Android users wish they could have a very useful feature, and are saying as much.
Personally I think it's inevitable that Sonos does expand TruePlay to Android to maximize the number of potential customers, but it all comes down to prioritization. Until that happens, all Android users can do is to continue making it known that there's a demand for it.
Calibration of the mics is done with a file that's loaded to the measurement software. Just like in any professional case it would be done. No mic is "calibrated" from factory, there's always manufacturing tolerances. The whole idea of calibration is measuring the deviation of the microphone once it's ready and adjusting the measurements to that unit's deviation. This might come as a surprise to some iDevice fans, but their device's microphones are not calibrated. Sonos has probably measured a few samples and created an average "calibration" for said devices but in reality they're just as useful as any random microphone off the shelf (or in any Android device). No two microphones will give the same measurement if they're not uniquely calibrated after manufacturing. So if it's too bold to say assume everyone's got a calibrated mic I'd say assume no one's got a calibrated mic and throw one in the box with the speakers.
And yeah the microphones I mentioned do work on android devices. I've tested. And I can use the supplied calibration files too so I can make reliable and repeatable measurements with either one. But you do need a 3,5 mm connector for the Dayton or USB OTG for Umik so I guess iDevices are out of luck?
Do a search on “Android Trueplay” and you will see it is impossible due to quality differences in Android microphones. The mics used in Apple are all made with the same specifications. With Android they can vary greatly even within the same model, depending on where and when it was manufactured.
Many have requested the ability to use a standard external microphone, but Sonos has never commented on this request.
Wish I would have bought Bose!!!
So you wish you bought a brand which has no way to automatically tune for your room because the one which does automatically tune for your room requires a specific device?
SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).
Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.
Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.
SONOS is attempting to measure the room characteristics. A simple wired microphone typically determines conditions at a spot -- and the wire is always too short -- or “I forgot where I stored the microphone” -- or the speaker is sitting on a high shelf (“how do I attach the microphone?”).
Admittedly, I don’t have a proper sample, but most SONOS users that I encounter have iDevices. SONOS would be aware of the actual percentages that use Android.
Sure, SONOS could sell a free standing wireless microphone. How much would you be willing to pay for such a device? Would you be grumbling that iDevice users would not need to purchase such a device? Should SONOS include such a device with each speaker? Of course this would imply raising prices to accommodate development, support (remember that SONOS offers “free” support), and production costs. And, for anyone who has an iDevice, there would eventually be extra junk for the recycle stream.
I’ve noticed that every time Apple comes out with a new iDevice, it’s several months before Sonos releases Trueplay support for the device. That makes me think it’s not just a matter of calibrating the mic on the device in order to make trueplay function properly. Also, whatever dev and testing that needs to be done outside of mic calibration. is not trivial, otherwise it would be released within a couple weeks at the most. Also also, it seems possible, maybe likely, that if Sonos made their own mic device, that Sonos would offset the cost by stopping the continual dev and testing of trueplay via iDevices while also increasing the market size. Obviously, that would make a lot of people unhappy as well.
And one last thing. These are essentially single use devices. Example, someone who just set a home theatre with no plans for expansion will likely avoid buying the device. If installed professionally, the installer will tune it with his own device rather than selling one to the customer. If you install yourself, you may decide to go without, borrow from a friend, or a buy a used one. If you do buy one, you don’t need it afterwards, so you can sell it or just give it away. The point is that the actual market size for this device is probably much smaller than the number of Sonos households.
Clearly passionate defense of status quo.
Should be pretty easy to logically debunk that defense then.
Nevertheless, for the global smartphone market, more than 70 percent are Android as of 2022, according to Statcounter. Maybe Sonos is comfortable limiting themselves to half the US market?
Your link is to worldwide data. Here is the US only data, showing android at around 44%. However, neither is fully relevant since Sonos does not operate in every country in the world, and the demographic of typical Sonos customer likely does match the general population of smartphone user. I mean, a 12 year old kid has a smartphone, but they aren’t buying Sonos anything
But for the sake of argument, let’s say android is 50% of Sonos market. You still have to factor in that many can borrow an idevice or choose to go without. Suggesting that Sonos is limiting themselves to half the US market assumes android users can’t use Sonos, which is just not true. And you still have to factor in the dev costs for the variety of mics on androids vs idevice.
I would love to see trueplay on android, or a separate mic device, personally. I’m just saying that it’s not too surprising that Sonos hasn’t done this considering what we know.
Now I am not like other people. If the cost is less than half of a new apple device, then I would be willing to buy something. I am going to have 3-4 rooms with several devices so that is a reasonable expense. I suggest enabling the Roam with microphone as a work around. I would be willing to buy one.
I would be good with the Roams as tuning mic as well. Not sure that that is possible, and I’m sure many would be offended by a $180 tuning mic. If it were possible but the required code didn’t fit in with Roams other functions, I would even be ok with having to do a factory reset to put it in ‘tuning mode’.
Completely unrelated, but I also like the idea of putting the Roam in “voice remote” mode and bonding to Sonos room that does’t have any voice mics in it. You can effectively do this now, but you have to remember to state the room name. I really just think the form factor of the Roam, and think it could be used in many different ways.
Good grief, "C suite?" Discrimination? Because of a phone choice? Think about that for a second.
It's no secret that Sonos is not happy with Google because of the theft of Sonos' proprietary intellectual property.
But to say that the quality of the microphone in a Samsung phone lacks the technical ability to positively affect Trueplay is the sign of someone in the C Suite that is all butt hurt and wants revenge anyway possible towards Google.
Unless the device can be calibrated prior to testing, there is no technical difference between iOS & Android on a phone and if Sonos can set up Trueplay for iOS, it can be done for Android.
Sonos can have Trueplay work with Android, Sonos chooses not to allow that.
If Sonos requires only Android users to purchase an external mic, citing that Android phones lack a technically qualified mic, without introducing mic calibration on either platform, what word best describes treating one group differently because of ideology?
I believe that Sonos is going to suffer the same fate the BlackBerry phone went through - a management team so wrongly focused it doesn't see the disruption coming its way - and then some other company hands Sonos their butt because that hungry company can't afford to put out a product limited by executive ego, drama and narrow-mindedness.
Nice to know you are privy to the inner workings of a corporation. It’s either that, or you have made up this entire fantasy in your head in order to justify . . . something.
Hi. I have been a fairly active member of this community for a decade now and have lost count of the number of times I have seen this prediction. The only thing that changes is the reason given for why this Is going to happen.
The death of Sonos due to some perceived slight is rivaled only by the threat of class action lawsuits, neither of which has seen the light of day in the almost 2 decades Sonos has existed. This one is extra hilarious because Trueplay has been around without Android support for going on 9 years. You’d think if no Android support meant Sonos suffering the same fate as Blackberry, it would have happened by now.
If the Android mic is indeed the limiting factor, I don't see why a Sonos mic plugged into an Android phone's usb port wouldn't be the solution. As a Samsung phone owner, I'm feeling a bit oppressed by the man.
Loss of customers? I believe the Sonos results showed they had gained 1.8 million households worldwide in the last year. Sonos are taking legal action for patent infringement against certain companies, as they have done successfully in the past with others. Of course they would protect their intellectual property.
When you say that Sonos doesn't listen to their customers, what you really mean is that your pet feature has not been their top priority.
You are of course free to think what you like and buy what you like. I wish you well.
Calibrating audio for any room is an essential. Audio equipment is designed for a perfectly acoustical environment which is impossible in a house unless you design a dedicated room for it. Every system I have calibrated over the last 17 years has made a HUGE difference in sound quality coming from the equipment. What you call my “pet feature” I call ensuring I am getting the best from my purchase.
As far as the lawsuit it is because they cannot keep up with the cheap devices that Amazon and Google and to defend their IP which is definitely a must and I stand behind Sonos to do so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/07/technology/sonos-sues-google.html
“Sonos’s entry-level speaker is about $200. Amazon and Google’s cheapest speakers are $50, and they often offer them at much steeper discounts.
In the third quarter of 2019, Amazon shipped 10.5 million speakers and Google six million, according to Strategy Analytics. For the 12 months ending in September, Sonos said it had sold 6.1 million speakers.
“Amazon and Google are making it a mass-market product at a price point that Sonos can’t match,” said Jack Narcotta, a Strategy Analytics analyst.”
My goal is to enjoy my Sonos as much as possible with minimal aggravation, not to get Sonos to do stuff.
I don’t think these should be mutually exclusive. Not everyone is capable of self sufficiency and expecting such as the default approach without addressing the root cause is a slippery slope to letting Sonos off the hook. On that basis we should not ask for any new features and start writing the code ourselves!!!
My goal is to enjoy my Sonos as much as possible with minimal aggravation, not to get Sonos to do stuff.
I don’t think these should be mutually exclusive. Not everyone is capable of self sufficiency and expecting such as the default approach without addressing the root cause is a slippery slope to letting Sonos off the hook. On that basis we should not ask for any new features and start writing the code ourselves!!!
I couldn’t agree more… We see far too much of an apologist approach in these forums, which effectively means that Sonos never has to engage with their customers in any meaningful way - they just come out with the bland line of passing the message on to the appropriate department - and nothing ever…. ever….. changes….. How long have we been waiting for an android Trueplay solution now? IIRC. since 5.x or 6.x was released. It really isn’t good enough.
There are people here who jump in on any criticism as if they are the voice of Sonos, and it constantly downgrades the need for Sonos to engage constructively - or at all. They have enthusiasts doing their damage limitation for them, to the detriment of those making perfectly valid complaints.
I do agree that android trueplay needs to come. The difference to how the Arc sounds with and without it is absolutely massive. Can’t expect everyone to have Apple products and Sonos shouldn’t be selling a product that requires something else to make it sound better anyway. Fair enough if it was minimal difference, but for me it makes it sound a good 70% better have trueplay. Hopefully with the new roam technology using the inbuilt mic to tune, maybe it will come to the other speakers soon with inbuilt mics.
At this point I am almost positive I will be returning my Sonos Arc and never looking at Sonos again, while I still have that option.
If they listed TruePlay for iOS only on their website I would have seriously reconsidered, but nowhere on the Arc page does it denote a limitation. Every other product I have ever purchased has a notation on a feature with a footnote to call out limitations and I feel this is Sonos being deceptive.
Their excuses for not supporting Android because there is too much variation in microphones, as per the forums, is not valid. Even within the iPhone 12 line each model has different variations.
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-12-pro-max-audio-review-a-reliable-and-consistent-audio-performer/
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-12-audio-review-subtle-improvements-to-sound/
https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-12-mini-audio-review-big-sound-in-a-small-package/
This is an intentional choice by Sonos to ignore Android which as of Jan 2021 has a 71.93% market share worldwide and a 45% market share in the US.
If they want to choose to only support iOS call it out and prevent customers being frustrated and/or returning their purchase.
Would really like an official answer from Sonos on the forums, but I assume I will have to open a support ticket to get one.
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