Either I'm misunderstanding or this scheme is just encouraging people to throw away perfectly good Sonos equipment.
The way I read it, you "trade up" by selecting an eligible device and it then gets deactivated by Sonos for you to bin.
This is surely ethically wrong?
Where does anyone get the idea that the retailer is responsible for the recycling? The recycling is expected to be done by the consumer.
In Sonos’ T&C’s that have been sent to retailers. The customer brings in the old component and the retailer has to record and send off the S/N, then the retailer ‘recycles’ dumps the product
Not according to this (from Sonos rep Ryan S) (bold by me):
We are prioritizing environmental responsibility and encourage our users to responsibly recycle their deactivated products through local e-recyclers. Lists of local certified e-recyclers can be found online, such as here: https://www.google.com/maps/search/e-waste+recycling
Certified e-recyclers adhere to sustainability policies and practices for managing electronics, including the reuse of materials, energy recovery and responsible disposal. Recycling locally is more eco-friendly and sustainable than packing up products and shipping them back to us. That said, our goal is to keep players out of the landfill, so if local recycling isn’t an option, customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense.
Note also, Sonos will do the recycling if the consumer cannot recycle locally and they will pay for the shipping. I guess this thread is all for naught.
Where does anyone get the idea that the retailer is responsible for the recycling? The recycling is expected to be done by the consumer.
In Sonos’ T&C’s that have been sent to retailers. The customer brings in the old component and the retailer has to record and send off the S/N, then the retailer ‘recycles’ dumps the product
Not according to this (from Sonos rep Ryan S) (bold by me):
We are prioritizing environmental responsibility and encourage our users to responsibly recycle their deactivated products through local e-recyclers. Lists of local certified e-recyclers can be found online, such as here: https://www.google.com/maps/search/e-waste+recycling
Certified e-recyclers adhere to sustainability policies and practices for managing electronics, including the reuse of materials, energy recovery and responsible disposal. Recycling locally is more eco-friendly and sustainable than packing up products and shipping them back to us. That said, our goal is to keep players out of the landfill, so if local recycling isn’t an option, customers are welcome to ship it back to Sonos at our expense.
Note also, Sonos will do the recycling if the consumer cannot recycle locally and they will pay for the shipping. I guess this thread is all for naught.
Clearly you missed the point of this thread. Sonos are encouraging people to recycle items that don't rneed recycling. As Ryan has already said, shipping items back to them is also not an environmental friendly option. Recycling is great but not for the sake of it. That's the point.
Uh, since when is recycling a bad thing? Also, if you don't want them recycled, don't participate in the program. You do have a choice.
+2
What’s going to happen is we’ll see these ‘bricked’ units being sold through 3rd-party channels, like Ebay etc… The market will be flooded with ‘as-is, for parts or repair’ units that have nothing physically wrong with them, but cannot be used. Unsuspecting buyers (who may have had previous experience buying such units and getting them to work) will be flooding Sonos tech support only to find out their serial number has been permanently blacklisted. Used Sonos has an unusually high resale value (which points to how much people really enjoy these products!) Tanking that market will not necessarily result in more sales of new units for them, IMO...
case in point: https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/324002474324
At least this seller KNOWS and DISCLOSES that this unit has been bricked by Sonos as part of the trade-up program. I predict we’ll see many more people ‘recycling’ in this fashion and it’s not going to be pretty...
You do know “encouraging” is not a gun to the head, right? Of all the policies to complain about, you pick one that encourages recycling? First world problems indeed. 
Frankly I am horrified that my perfectly good speakers are no longer useful unless I trade up . When I purchased the system it was very expensive and at no time did Sonos day it only had a limited life span !! I would have looked at alternatives. The 30% is a joke as I can buy a competitors system for less . Think I will be saying goodbye to Sonos when the speakers stop working - customer loyalty 🤷♀️🤷♀️
I’d absolutely support such environmental arguments, so long as they come from folks who haven’t taken a flight for at least 10 years.
You can double that and more to 23 years. Thanks for supporting me.
Good for you. I was setting the bar low at 10 years.
I should have added ocean cruises too.
You can change the rules but I've also never been on an ocean cruise. You could be turning into my most ardent supporter yet at this rate.
You do know “encouraging” is not a gun to the head, right? Of all the policies to complain about, you pick one that encourages recycling? First world problems indeed.
You see it as encouraging recycling and I see it as encouraging waste. So I guess we'll agree to disagree.
Sadly though it's not a first world problem. Just a world problem.
I don’t seen how the Sonos tradeup program is a problem for the world. Are you saying the volume of Sonos speakers that are recycled instead of used is going to have a significant impact on the environment? Or maybe suggesting that the program is going to encourage people to recycle instead of reuse in general...and that’s going to damage the environment in a noticeable way?
Yes, recycling (although no surety that they will even at best, be recycled) instead of using a Sonos product is obviously worse for the environment. We don't know the numbers but just imagine several thousand, possibly tens or hundreds of thousand of units now just being binned or recycled for no good reason.
Nothing like that will be noticeable to you or I but it's just another thing to add to the list of things that is ruining the planet.
Surely we can at least agree that it's not a good thing?
Nope, I can’t agree. I understand that reuse is better than recycle is better than throw away. I’m not debating that. I disagree that a program where a person has to recycle instead of reuse is a world altering problem. I disagree with the premise that people were going to chose to continue to use/reuse a product till it dies or sell it if this program didn’t exist. And I don’t doubt that many people currently just throw away electronics instead of recycle. In that regard, the program is going to bring some awareness that electronics can be recycled and provide incentive to do that with other products that no longer use and don’t want to sell.
No, this doesn’t bother me at all. I plan on using the program with one, maybe two, perfectly functioning units, and I don’t feel the least bit guilty about it. In fact, I will likely recycle several other devices I’ve got laying around as well, all in good working order.
+1
What I’d like to see is Sonos allow us to return our Play 1s to them and Sonos gut them and fit them out as a Sonos One and ship it back to us for a price cheaper than a new one. Surely at least the case would be reusable and maybe some other components as well. Alternatively Sonos could sell the old ones as reconditioned units. However, just to get the customer to cause their existing products to self destruct is totally bonkers as other’s have said on this list. Come on Sonos - you’ve read the feedback, have a rethink on this one. It’s doing nothing for your reputation as a company which promotes sustainability.
Is it too much to ask that SONOS honor that same ethic?
I agree, but all those who have been involved in making new and old devices continue to work together know that there’s a cost to the company to achieve this - and apparently it’s not one that Sonos are prepared to absorb. Personally, I would have more sympathy with them if they made it easier for people to run whichever versions of the software they choose, but that hasn’t happened, either.
I have a Hobart made Kitchen Aid Mixer from the 70’s that is still bullet proof.
It’s all about the software - your mixer doesn’t have any…. 
Hey man. I CONGREE completely. Per my Email Server analogy. Just let people run old OS instead of making it obsolete. I’d be fine for my purposes if the software stayed the same or provided ports to third party hacking but don't make my **** obsolete. All I personally need is access to my 1M+ local library and TuneIn. The four best radio stations in the world IMO ( FIP - out of Paris - #1 ration station in the world| WWOZ - Out of NOLA, CKUT - Out of Montreal, and the seminal BLK 100 out of NOLA (The Black Station)
Even if some of these products are more than 10 years old, that doesn’t mean they were purchased 10 years ago. The connect:amp is a case in point: at the start of this year this was “current” and the best choice for users with their own speakers already.
There are a couple of nasty consequences of this trade-up program:
I really worry about the signal this is sending. Point 2 worries me more than anything: that Sonos are clearing the way to hobble or isolate my existing Gen1 Play:5s, Connect and Connect:Amp (yes, I have all of these) interacting with the newer kit on my network. The one key feature of the Sonos ecosystem is that it is “one thing” that can play anything, anywhere.
Is it too much to ask that SONOS honor that same ethic?
I agree, but all those who have been involved in making new and old devices continue to work together know that there’s a cost to the company to achieve this - and apparently it’s not one that Sonos are prepared to absorb. Personally, I would have more sympathy with them if they made it easier for people to run whichever versions of the software they choose, but that hasn’t happened, either.
I have a Hobart made Kitchen Aid Mixer from the 70’s that is still bullet proof.
It’s all about the software - your mixer doesn’t have any….
Not exactly true. Both the Ankarsrum mixer and the Kitchen Aid have had an endless number attachments made for them over the years. SONOS did a commendably good job of ‘future proofing” their gear but like a mixer made in the 1950’s it doesn't mean it can't perform the basic task prescribed to it then as to today. It’s just an insane way of thinking about loyalty IMO.
If concessions are made (the 30% discount) it’s an attempt to compensate those impacted.
It’s semantics at this point. I agree they botched it. It’s all in the way the message is presented. If they said, “hey everybody, we’ve been doing some big things that we would like to roll out our new S2 platform but we have an issue that would affect our legacy equipment which are just not powerful enough to run S2. We’re considering these options so we can all be on one platform, 1,2,3 let us know what you think.
Again, just thoughts.
As far as “fighting back” is concerned, I have better things to do with my time. That may change when Sonos bricks one of my products, but I’m not going to put any effort into worrying about it now. As always, YMMV. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
+26
Before you go to commit to the Trade Up there’s a link for the terms & conditions. I suggest you read them. Basically for each product you recycle Sonos is offering a discount on any other Sonos product. Once the credit is applied, your view of the prices in the Sonos web store would change accordingly. There’s no “you should replace X with Y”.
In any event if your products are working fine you may perfectly well choose to continue with them.
Whilst not a bad answer (the last point especially) I inadvertently marked this as the best answer. To be honest , I didn't even know it was an option , can it be undone or we stuck with it? Ta!
I unmarked the answer. And also swapped this thread into a conversation instead of a question, it’s not really the type of thread that gets a “best answer” which solves it.
As a consumer, I don’t care when the product was “designed” as discussed in many Sonos posts. I care when it was “last sold as new” by Sonos or a dealer. I believe these Play 5’s were being sold for quite a while, perhaps through 2015. That is not 10 years ago by a long stretch.
+22
grazey I’m missing what Sonos is forcing you to do?
Everything I have seen on the Trade-Up program is optional and voluntary. What am I missing?
I am have invested a lot of money in my Sonos system around my house. To now be told that the 2 Play:5 units that I have will not work and as a result will stop me updating the other 5 Sonos units on my home system after May 2020 is an absolute disgrace. A 30% upgrade allowance is far short on the expense of adding two new Sonos devices. This has now made me seriously think about Sonos as an ethical company and whether going forward I would want to buy any further products as the 5 current products that I have that are now affected will within the next year of so land me in the same situation. I cannot justify the expense and will have to look at other companies to provide my home entertainment systems. Watch out Sonos I am sure Google and Amazon will be only to happy to take your loyal customers away from you - after all you have helped already.
“Yes, the trade up program and Sonos history with the CR100 and dock are fueling these assumptions, but we do not know at this point.”
No - but past experience makes it a fairly good bet, though, surely? We already know that Sonos are quite happy to brick kit that they’ve sold (Dock, CR100) and take the customer flack, and I can see no logical reason why they won’t do the same with older devices when it suits them.
I do agree that the user has the option to lock things off, but that needs some level of expertise and certain facilities being available on their router - which are not common. IMV Sonos should have a single switch on a controller to turn off any possibility of the system being accidentally updated.
grazey I’m missing what Sonos is forcing you to do?
Everything I have seen on the Trade-Up program is optional and voluntary. What am I missing?
Sonos is t forcing me - yet, but it is coming. They are a company I no longer trust. You completely evaded the points I actually did make such as the aim of controlling the market, turning customers into cash cows, the fact that its not ethical to brick tech that works.
Personally I have thrown away lots of gear that I no longer needed and nobody else in the family wanted. I’ve always liked to keep up with tech and gadgets in the past so ended up giving away older stuff to family and friends, but some stuff nobody wanted and some stuff was just no use any more…
I threw away 3 perfectly good and working video recorders because nobody used them any more as DVD had taken over and hard disc recorders were the norm.
I threw away a couple of 32 inch wide screen CRT televisions because everything had now gone to flat screen technology and HD.
I threw away a couple of minidisc player/recorders because I no longer needed them and everyone was now ripping to MP3/FLAC onto hard disks etc.
I threw away at least 4 computer monitors.
That is just off the top of my head, there’s probably a lot more. These were all still in working order but were no use to me or anyone else any more. They all went to local dump/recycling centre.
Sonos rarely gives advanced notice, if Ryan leaks we may see him outside Starbucks with a cardboard “Hungry” sign.
Just a denial would suffice
….. waits with bated breath….
Thanks for advice everyone. Am going to keep current stuff and fingers crossed they don't make it redundant ...
Take control of your own system - lock it down now :-)
I threw away 3 perfectly good and working...
That’s how the developed economies with stable/declining populations achieve GDP growth rates, and we are now starting to see the probable cost of these antics.
Instead of learning from this, in India we are aping this behaviour, and so is China probably - human nature is the same across the world except for minor detail differences. And in this big picture Sonos and its schemes are fleabites on a flea in a huge game reserve.
I suspect we will all keep doing this until nature bites back.
What I’d like to see is Sonos allow us to return our Play 1s to them and Sonos gut them and fit them out as a Sonos One and ship it back to us for a price cheaper than a new one.
The cost, both environment and financial, of designing a play:1/Sonos One hybrid device, manage the program, ship it to a location to be retrofitted (currenly, the speakers are made in China), do the work, test it out, ship it back to the owner,,,will surely be more than the cost a brand new Sonos One.
Even if some of these products are more than 10 years old, that doesn’t mean they were purchased 10 years ago. The connect:amp is a case in point: at the start of this year this was “current” and the best choice for users with their own speakers already.
Yes, I think that’ pretty well understood, and an somewhat understandable complaint. However, I think most recently purchased devices won’t be traded in, since customers will likely be happy with what they have now and won’t feel like they get their money’s worth. I am guessing Sonos didn’t distinguish between old and new Connect:amp’s either because it’s difficult to identify the age of products with customers or felt it would be too confusing for customers.
There are a couple of nasty consequences of this trade-up program:
You’re comment on support is speculative, but surely the take some will have. I think the used market will be effected in lots of ways both directions. Less people will bother to sell the speakers since they have a trade in value, while some will want to buy a speaker for it’s trade in value. Some will feel the risk of buying used is worth it since you can recover some value through trade in, while will feel it’s a doom product as you suggested.
I don’t see this as effect of the trade in program, since the statement is true whether there was a trade in program or not. The products are built with lower specs and are less likely to get newer features added because of this.
Sonos has stated several times that they want to incentives people to purchase the new speakers as part of the reason for this. And you’re applying the 30% figure incorrectly. It’s 30% off of whatever product you buy, not 30% off the value of the product you’re selling. That means the dollar value varies from $54 to $210 depending on what you purchase. So if you’re trading in a $400 Connect for a $700 playbar, you’re getting over 50% of your money back essentially. So in regardless to what you can charge second hand, it’s a matter of what the speaker is worth for use itself or whatever the buyer intends to trade it in for.
Besides the fact that you don’t have to trade in your old gear at all, you don’t need to trade in for the current version of your product. You could trade in a Connect for a Sonos One if you wish, not the same at all. Disallowing stacking is a very reasonable measure for Sonos. They aren’t trying to lose money with this program. I don’t know what their margins are, but I would guess 60% off would be at a loss.
Again, the value of the trade in is 30% off a new item, not the original cost of what you are trading in. If you want to buy a Connect in that’s currently 20% for example ($280?), knowing that you can trade it in for 30% off a Port or any other Sonos device later on, that’s an option.
I really worry about the signal this is sending. Point 2 worries me more than anything: that Sonos are clearing the way to hobble or isolate my existing Gen1 Play:5s, Connect and Connect:Amp (yes, I have all of these) interacting with the newer kit on my network. The one key feature of the Sonos ecosystem is that it is “one thing” that can play anything, anywhere.
None of the speakers have been removed yet. I get why people think the end is coming based on this, but if there is an end, it will come with or without this trade up program. Personally, I’m not all that worried.
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