Either I'm misunderstanding or this scheme is just encouraging people to throw away perfectly good Sonos equipment.
The way I read it, you "trade up" by selecting an eligible device and it then gets deactivated by Sonos for you to bin.
This is surely ethically wrong?
+15
Sure would have been nice to see this before the price increase on the Port. Nope, not intentional at all.
It’s good for some, not good for others, which is fine. There’s no requirement I’m aware of for a company to satisfy only one person’s desires. I’d probably feel much differently if it was a required upgrade, i.e. your hardware is going to stop working, but we’ll give you a 30% discount to replace gear that’s not going to work next week.
I can understand what Sonos is trying to do. I’m pleased that they’re at least getting a commitment from the trade in process to recycle the old equipment, rather than just giving the discount and forcing people to throw the items away. I’m also pleased that there’s no requirement to upgrade existing equipment, it’s purely an option for those who want to avail themselves.
Everyone has the option of doing it if they so desire, and not doing it if they don’t. I’ve seen several posts from people who have gotten more than the 30% by reselling their equipment without trading it in for the discount, good for them. Passing on the equipment is great. Recycling the equipment is good, too. Simply tossing it in the trash is bad.
Everyone has the option of doing it if they so desire, and not doing it if they don’t. I’ve seen several posts from people who have gotten more than the 30% by reselling their equipment without trading it in for the discount, good for them. Passing on the equipment is great. Recycling the equipment is good, too. Simply tossing it in the trash is bad.
I have posted some comments in another thread, but the above summary seems eminently sensible. And, if it is correct, is why I can't understand the furore over the Sonos offer which is just another option to consider based on the realities of the vintage of one’s kit.
Everyone has the option of doing it if they so desire, and not doing it if they don’t. I’ve seen several posts from people who have gotten more than the 30% by reselling their equipment without trading it in for the discount, good for them. Passing on the equipment is great. Recycling the equipment is good, too. Simply tossing it in the trash is bad.
I have posted some comments in another thread, but the above summary seems eminently sensible. And, if it is correct, is why I can't understand the furore over the Sonos offer which is just another option to consider based on the realities of the vintage of one’s kit.
There’s a couple of reasons in my opinion why a fuss is being created..
This offer is horrible. I have a connect:amp. I would be interested in possibly upgrading to the new amp but the feature set is fairly limited and the new amp is a whopping £600.
Considering the discount is only 30% and that is on full retail price, which you can get it cheaper from other retails/offers anyway this is simply not enough. This would still take it down to £420 which is still a massive amount of money for a small upgrade.
To those saying that expecting a double dip is pure personal greed, that is ridiculous. The 30% is not enough and bricking a perfectly good device is stupid.
A reasonable thing would be the 30% incentive to upgrade (because why would i upgrade otherwise anyway?) and then allow me to keep or sell the the device. I could get around £250 selling it, meaning that the upgrade has cost me £170, i don’t understand how you think this is “personal greed” it’s still a good chunk of money to do this and the best thing for the environment is for someone to reuse the equipment. It’s only in doing this are you getting anywhere close to what would be a reasonable upgrade deal and also good in terms of recycling.
Also this makes very little difference to Sonos, there profit would be the same. Only offering 30% and then expecting you to throw your device in the trash is pure greed on the part of Sonos, not the individual.
Heck slightly lowering the discount and letting you keep your device would be a better option than this and Sonos themselves would make more profit, seems a silly choice to me, even if they had good intentions.
I also see it as a bit of a stupidity test as well to be honest.
Who in their right mind would gladly agree buy a new device to replace the one they already have (and still works) and agree to let Sonos brick there old one at the same time so they can’t sell it.
I totally agree. You have something you are happy with and works functionally, but if you spend about the same you originally paid, you can get something that does functionally the same. You also get to "recycle" your old product because Sonos destroys it.
Imagine if this was a second hand car. Ford offers you the chance to buy the new model for £19,995 and as part of that deal, we'll crush your old car.
That’s almost the same example as I used today funnily enough. It’s the absolute principle of it too. I’d rather let it die (hopefully over a few years) and spend on another brand.
They are now telling me that my 3 Gen 1 Play 5’s are inhibiting updates to my 9 other pieces of equipment (2 playbases, 2 subs, 2 Play 1’s, 1 Play 5 Gen II, Boost and Connect Amp). Also, the play 5’s only show a trade for the Move, I don’t consider that a fair trade. I’m not sure how the software updates can’t discern the individual units.
“Legacy products were introduced between 2005 and 2011 and, given the age of the technology, do not have enough memory or processing power to sustain future innovation.
Please note that because Sonos is a system, all products operate on the same software. If modern products remain connected to legacy products after May, they also will not receive software updates and new features.”
So it’s not just $1200.00 worth of “Legacy” units anymore, my whole system has become “Legacy”.
I read it like this too - “replace all units before updates end in May, or you will get a reduced experience from your system”. So, no choise, no options. Just replace otherwise fully functionally equipment in order to be able to use any new products”.
And I also wondered about the suggested trade-in Play:5 to Move - nothing on the My Sonos site indicates that anything else should be possible. Hopefully it is but it is not written anywhere.
I have studied the product descriptions in order to see if there would be any useful new features that could somehow justify replacing the old devices, but I don’t see any. Maybe iPhone users will be happy, but I use Android - and not for streaming music.
This whole “offer” has made me look for alternatives to Sonos, even though I have until now been happy with what I had. Sad, sad. I guess that Sonos has decided to split their customers in two groups and go with the one that can be expected to replace equipment often; while leaving the more moderate buyers behind. Probably some marketing guru came up with this idea as the new black, so now Sonos follow this path for a while, until they will be almost bancrupt, bought by Samsung/Harmann, and closed.
Big thumbs down to Sonos. You guys have just gone way down in my opinion. I have joined this forum just to make this point.
Booooooooo - you suck.
I own 4 Sonoses and love the products and experience. I used to think the company was decent too. But now I just think you’re just wanting to line your pockets and F the environmental impact.
+26
The team certainly worked on a lot of options for how best to make this program work. While we’re proud of how long our products last, we don’t really want these old, second-hand products to be the first experience a new customer has with Sonos. We hope that in upgrading to the latest and greatest, people will recycle responsibly, and we feel it’s the right decision to make recycling a condition of this offer. The program itself is also entirely optional, and merely an offer for people with eligible devices.
The team certainly worked on a lot of options for how best to make this program work. While we’re proud of how long our products last, we don’t really want these old, second-hand products to be the first experience a new customer has with Sonos. We hope that in upgrading to the latest and greatest, people will recycle responsibly, and we feel it’s the right decision to make recycling a condition of this offer. The program itself is also entirely optional, and merely an offer for people with eligible devices.
Ok, I've missed a bit here. How is it a condition of the offer? Do they need to supply evidence that's it's been recycled properly (although reusing it is still the most ethical solution)?
Cheers
I’d absolutely support such environmental arguments, so long as they come from folks who haven’t taken a flight for at least 10 years.
You can double that and more to 23 years. Thanks for supporting me.
I’d absolutely support such environmental arguments, so long as they come from folks who haven’t taken a flight for at least 10 years.
With that attitude, no one would ever do anything as there’s always something worse/larger that “should be done first”.
All actions matter.
The lack of transparency from SONOS regarding the path forward tells me they are afraid and operating from a position of fear. I don’t own any SONOS stock anymore but I may consider shorting them based on their treatment of long time fans. I was a professional chef for 25 years and the thing I learned in that time is cloistering ideas makes you stale. Sharing ideas drives creativity and innovation. SONOS is operating from a place of fear (e.g. Look at Elon Musk sharing his e car patents). As a first adopter I am not happy with their current leading from behind strategy. The other thing is their apparent lack of 2way feedback from the community,.
It’s good that you think you have infinite amounts of money. I work hard for my money; and If someone told me that my toaster wasn't going to work at some point in the future because there is a better toaster (a toaster toasts bread btw) then good for you and your money tree. For me? I want my gear to work into infinity at the level at which I bought it…
The analogy of Sonos to a toaster doesn’t really make sense due to the obvious differences. A toaster is effectively a static device with minimal interaction with other technologies. Sonos devices are hardware and software integrated with other devices. Even without considering new features, a level of support needs/should be provided in order to make sure your devices continue to work as originally designed, in coordination with other devices and remaining secure. It seems quite fair to me that support of device need to have a set life since there is no revenue from supporting older units.
Ah shucks... I still have an email server running windows 2000 from 2001 on a PC I built for $500. It works great and serves the task of sending email as well today as it did over 20 years ago (an email server that got me a job by my resume always being at top of the queue). But hey, I am so glad you don't care about saving money and someday perhaps retirement. Good for you. Stop spewing your incredulous attitude towards those of us who like our hard earned money and the gear we bought with it.
Your windows server surely doesn’t have support from Mircosoft or any of the hardware manufacturers at this point. What we seem to be assuming is that Sonos is going to drop support of older speakers (which they have not done or said they will do) and will update the software so that these device can’t be used any more (which they have done or said they will do). The whole argument is based on speculation. Yes, the trade up program and Sonos history with the CR100 and dock are fueling these assumptions, but we do not know at this point.
I personally don’t mind my older units going away, not because I have infinite money or anything like that. I’ve appreciated Sonos new features and have upgraded accordingly when I thought it was good value to me. I’m sure that’s viewed by some as being unwise with my money, but to each their own. So I’m not really at risk. If I were though, my level of worry about this would not be that high. I’d read the suggestions on how to block upgrades and be prepared to implement them when the time comes.
My $15,000 6 burner Blue Star range will still work as good when I die (25K BTU Burners) as it does today. Is it too much to ask that SONOS honor that same ethic? Honestly, I don't give a shit about many of the new features.
(SIDEBAR)If SONOS told me they were going to remove the library limit on library tracks of IIRC 65k and 24BIT support (I am at 1M+) then some “upgrade” to my 12 unit, wrong, 14 unit system might be worth it. (/SIDEBAR)
Until then, leave me alone and stop preaching false prophets about 10 years old equipment or give me your money. Etc. yada yada yada. FYI, I was probably SONOS customer number less than 5,000 and worked on their singular defining advertising moment: Their Super Bowl commercial in 2014. (sales doubled every every year from that point forward). TV advertising works. SURPRISE!
I don’t get the comments in bold.
I was thinking a ‘justification’ for some to replace older devices with newer Amps maybe idle power usage, but surprised that some of the newer devices appear to use more power when idle than the older devices:
eg Connect:Amp (ZP120) vs Amp
https://support.sonos.com/s/article/256?language=en_US
+26
Ryan S, it would be nice if you could confirm that Sonos aren’t intending to brick more product.
I’ll make it easier for you, how about just confirming that Sonos aren’t proposing to brick products eligible for this discount in the next 18 months?
Hey andrewCBR, I believe I posted this above before, but in case you missed it, the official statement I can share is that we are committed to supporting all Sonos products for as long as we are able. This program is designed so that people who are interested in getting newer products while not needing to keep their older ones can recycle them in exchange for a discount. We’ve never had something like this before, and wanted to try and introduce an upgrade program so that our long time customers can enjoy the best of Sonos with the newest products. We wanted to start with just a few of our oldest models, which is why these ones were selected.
I was thinking a ‘justification’ for some to replace older devices with newer Amps maybe idle power usage, but surprised that some of the newer devices appear to use more power when idle than the older devices:
eg Connect:Amp (ZP120) vs Amp
This is definitely a good point, as to the new device using more power, it’s really just in the case of the Amp vs Connect:Amp (argueable with the Play:1 to Sonos One gen1 though the gen2 uses less power). I don’t know specifically, but I think the increased power use on the Amp is due to some of the extra features it has over the Connect:Amp. It has to factor in the HDMI-ARC and 5GHz wireless in some setups on the average idle power use.
Like most formerly-loyal, multi-product Sonos users, I’m pretty bothered about this entire issue. However, it’s this lack of concern for the environment that angers me the most. I really want nothing to do with a company that cares so little about the state of the planet in 2020. And the arrogance of the responses from Sonos on this thread--basically trying to argue that by bricking perfectly functioning, high-quality devices, while calling it a “recycling” program, they are taking an ethical approach to electronic waste--is simply insulting.
In the end, I think this is all about wanting to add unnecessary “upgrades” only to differentiate their products from cheaper devices like Amazon Echoes, Google Home Minis, etc. That’s the only reason I can think of, because streaming music alone shouldn’t be facing many technological innovations in the coming years. To me it shows a real lack of faith in the quality of their products and their overall system.
Joke’s on them (and the planet) in the end, when in pursuit of short-term profits and stock market gains they ruin their reputation and push away their loyal customers (many of whom, like me, have essentially been unpaid salespeople over the past decade as I told people how great Sonos is). Or, sadly, the joke might be on me when they eventually declare bankruptcy and ALL of my products stop working!
+15
This controversy has blown up in other places as well - Business Insider has a story.
Also in that story is this gem, which no doubt will be poo-pooed by the sycophants here
"The reality is that these older products lack the processing power and memory to support modern Sonos experiences," it told The Verge. "Over time, technology will progress in ways these products are not able to accommodate."
If you own something on the trade up list, be prepared for a forced brick this year.
Flame away, disingenuous die-hards.
This controversy has blown up in other places as well - Business Insider has a story.
Also in that story is this gem, which no doubt will be poo-pooed by the sycophants here
"The reality is that these older products lack the processing power and memory to support modern Sonos experiences," it told The Verge. "Over time, technology will progress in ways these products are not able to accommodate."
If you own something on the trade up list, be prepared for a forced brick this year.
I’m not convinced that it will be that quick, but the answer is to take control of your system and lock it off… It’s yours - you paid for it - it runs on your network. If you must have streaming access then they’ll find a way of messing you up eventually (or let’s hope not), but you can hold off updates for some while, I’d have thought...
+15
How do you lock it down when the controller app will force you to update eventually? Get rid of my phone?
How do you lock it down when the controller app will force you to update eventually? Get rid of my phone?
As
There’s a document here :-
http://www.amun.org.uk/Sonos/Sonos%20Lock%20Down%20Procedures.pdf
which a kind contributor here put together to tackle an earlier problem, but the basic principles still hold.
I don’t use the radio or streaming, so block everything off, but as long as you block the update process then you should be OK - unless Sonos change the way that they handle updates, of course ;-)
NB - Sonos do not support this approach, so make sure that your system is working reliably before doing it...
+17
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Sonos isn’t forcing anyone to take this offer under thread of deactivating their devices. Accepting the offer is a choice. Choosing this will have you agree to having Sonos deactivate your old device.
This is blatant profiteering, at a stroke destroying faith in the Sonos brand. I’ve spent £thousands on Sonos products, expecting them to last as long as my previous hifi kit, all of which is in perfect working order after decades. But the Sonos equipment is apparently obsolete after 5 years. Well, listen to this, Sonos. When your kit “loses functionality” as you promise it will, I’ll definitely trade up - to another manufacturer, one that doesn’t treat its customers with such contempt. The US car industry tried building in obsolescence in the 1970s, while wiser - and more savvy - competitors in Europe and Japan concentrated on quality and longevity. As a result, the US car industry almost went bust, while their competitors prospered. Unless Sonos reverses this foolish and unethical policy soon, it will be the company heading for the scrapyard along with its expensive speakers.
When trading up from a connect to an Arc i clicked on Boost by mistake and my credit has been applied to the boost. Is there a way of changing credit to an Arc purchase please?
This is a user forum. You need to contact Sonos directly.
That’s BS though because it only needs to play an audio stream and the old stuff was designed to that.
No, it needs to access the source, it needs to authenticate, it needs to decode the codec, it needs to be the master for any other devices that are grouped, it needs to incorporate timing queues into the stream, it needs to process track information, it needs to store the queue, track index, favorites, account info, diagnostic info, any service required DRM scheme, etc., it needs to communicate with the controller, it needs to communicate with Amazon Web Services, it need to manage the Sonosnet mesh, it needs to navigate STP . . .
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