End of Software Support - Clarifications

I bought a couple of Sonos:Ones in the last year or two to complement my 3 existing play:5s (all of which are classed legacy now).  I’ve had them a good long while and had probably more updates than I would have expected.

However, had I the knowledge then that my existing system was obsolete, I would have spent a lot more time researching the alternatives.  I went with Sonos again specifically to integrate with what I have.

I don’t like the idea of nuking my play:5s from orbit just so that I can presumably play black friday prices for a new product.  The environmental aspects also really concerns me - what is happening to the old dead goods when they get sent back?

The “minimum 5 years” thing concerns me too.

From my own point of view, most software updates do nothing for me.  A couple have been great - Spotify, AirPlay and Google assistant - and some have been really bad - e.g. the new Mac app, or my CR200 being rendered virtually obsolete.

I can’t see how having a legacy system and a modern system in tandem works.  For me, it defeats the object as I usually group everything together so I can walk around the house and enjoy my music.  But when they then decide that the play:% gen2 is legacy, how does that work?

I’ve always thought the Sonos update thing a bit strange - sometimes you update all devices in the system seemingly just because the font in the app changes.

But I get that Sonos as a company are under pressure, as more and more smart speakers flood the market for ridiculously low charges.  AFAIK Sonos don’t make regular revenue from speakers once they’ve been sold, so I can see that they are potentially entering a difficult period in their life.  And I can imagine the software developers being desperate to move on from some of the old kit.  Having said that, this is a time when they need customer loyalty more than ever I would have thought, and it works both ways.

Personally, I’m going to watch this space and see what happens.  If my old kit continues to work, I will wait for Sonos to deliver something compelling enough for me to decide to ditch my old kit.  Otherwise I will have to try to fight my nerd-fuelled need to always be on the latest software.  It has dissuaded me to extend it further, and it means a big caveat should I ever be recommending it to anyone else.

Or, TL;DR - +1.  :)

It is really amazing :)

Earlier in the thread some poor sod, had a playbar for sorround, backed by 2 Play 5’s as rear speakers.

He can either go legacy og pay up for 2 new speakers to replace the relatively expensive speakers he bought 4 years ago in 2015/2016, when resellers were still selling their remaining stock of gen 1 play 5’s.

Imagine buying 2 speakers ~4 years ago, paying over $1000 for them, only to be told they are obsolete now.

@DK_Madsen 

“Imagine buying 2 speakers ~4 years ago, paying over $1000 for them, only to be told they are obsolete now.”

Yup, that is me as well!  Feel like a right chump!

Now I have calmed down a bit, I know what my plan is.  I am not going to buy any more speakers until the May announcement.  Then I am going to watch these threads and wait and see how it all plays out..  Time will tell.

not great. The wording of that clarification, whilst on the face of it seems to try and backtrack...they haven't stated specifically that the units will work fully for as long as you want them. Imagine spending 2k on a HiFi system only to have to replace it in 5 years because the manufacturer deliberately built it of parts that were non replaceable and would only last 5 years. really angry about this.

"We expect that in the near term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products," the filing explains. "If we no longer provide extensive backward capability for our products, we may damage our relationship with our existing customers, as well as our reputation, brand loyalty, and ability to attract new customers.

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward: First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honour that investment for as long as possible. Whilst legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience. Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, whilst legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalising details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks. Whilst we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the Trade Up programme we launched for our loyal customers. Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day. If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us. Sincerely, Patrick Patrick Spence CEO, Sonos

Patrick ,

                  Glad to hear this as I was about to write a long rant on email. But I am still not amused I now have a Sonos system which is 75% out of date and trade ins are pathetic as well. Your loyal customers are left with systems which will no longer perform with the new products. The whole idea was a sustainable sound system which could be added to or upgraded. I believe you need to be looking at a fix which upgrades the “legacy” components -  a plug circuit board with the required processing to upgrade them for example at low cost to your existing customers. I can see your company being sued and your customer base dwindling to an unsustainable level. After all there are now several cheaper competitors out there. You could also make your system compatible with other wi- Fi speakers fo example Alexa from Amazon it could receive the updates and run existing SONOS systems. 

I have 4 obsolete Bridges, 2 x Play  1s , 2 x play 5s, 1 x Sub , 2 X amps  and on and on.

just received my " 30% off special deal " e-mail from Sonos ...
in the past year iv spent £2000 / £2500 grand on their expensive kit for all over my house
Why ? cause it worked straight out of the box with no complications for me or my kids ...
Not ever was i told at the point of sale that my kit would self break and be worthless as a working hi-fi
What this tells me is ... i need to quickly sell all my kit on the "bay" and try and recover some of my investment
Do not EVER buy any of their kit ever again as all the new kit will eventually go "bricked " once again
What a greedy stupid decision from Sonos ... just to make even more money in my opinion

PS

Just looked on the "bay" and all the second hand prices have collapsed !

update

What a massive storm on the internet ... so much anger ... could be the makings of a horror movie !
I wish i was a fly on the Sonos boardroom wall ... what a self inflicted total nightmare .
But seriously ...
It doesn't matter what Sonos does or says now ... the Sonos brand is now very toxic if not dead !
Even if they roll back everything to "as was" I for one will not be buying any more of their kit.
I have lost all trust in the product and the company. I realise if it goes bust nothing will work
but i consider my existing kit as worthless now anyway ... even if i bought new ... it will eventually go "Legacy"
 
SONOS = LEGACY = SCRAP . Lets call it what it really is !

This whole Sonos debacle has made me realise that any Internet connected hardware from any company is time limited.
Why spend top money on the best products { which Sonos was } when a cheaper alternative is available
When it goes "Legacy" i wont lose so much of my hard earned money if i buy cheaper ...

PS

I hope that if it does go bust all the hard working innocent staff get re-employed in any Sonos alternative company .
 
They are the ones who will really be paying the price for this crazy stupid mess ....

Yours

A Totally 100% angry pissed off disillusioned never ever again former Sonos advocate
 

Hi Ken,

yep my Play 5 does have a line in but it still needs the Sonos app to work, I’m talking about making each unit wholly independent of the software and app, a standalone powered speaker. Whilst the 1’s and 3’s are not the issue at the moment Mr Spence’s mealy mouthed reply sure made it clear they will be part of the issue at some point…...

Patrick

The sonos Email telling me my connect and play 5 are obsolete arrived during a rather busy week, but not too busy to give this little problem some thought.  Your follow up clarification arrived this morning. My verdict is you are going to have to do way better than that to recover sonos’ fortunes with its customer base.  I suggest you google the Gerald Ratner case study; Gerald’s high street jewellery chain went straight the pan after he told his customers that the jewellery in his stores was all rubbish. You my friend have just done exactly the same. Sonos RIP.

What this sorry state highlights is the folly of throwing your all in with a closed system like Sonos, I for one will now investigate the other options available going forward that adopt a more open approach. 

Just as a final thought, given that sonos is a network, I fail to see why the so called shortcomings of this older kit cannot be compensated for elsewhere in the network. There are also sockets on the back of most speakers, surely some expansion device can be place in those! 

rightly or wrongly … people are very pissed off ...

my son is a manager in a national chain of electrical stockists , he says that people who have bought  a Sonos product in the last 14 days are trying to return them for a refund ….

Company is worried about stock levels going forward

Nuf said ...

Indeed… 

The clarification seems to add little. There is a preface with ‘we are sorry’ but it is then followed by a restatement. Legacy products will not be bricked in May but they will continue working for ‘as long as possible’. How long is that? Of course, no clarification on which functionality / features may be gradually dropped. Will spotify still work 3 months after May? Is this ‘as long as possible’? Will Tunein Radio work 6 months after May? 
Sure, that may all depend on how partner services change and when … sonos may not know. Why not deal with this in the same way as how Airplay 2 is streamed through a compatible device that is then grouped with older non supporting units. Yes it is slightly clunky but it enables older units to offer whole home audio with Airplay 2.

Is the memory / processor module the weak link? How about an upgrade program (at a cost of course) that allows customers to send the speaker back to sonos for an upgrade on the computer part of the unit?

The ‘clarification’ only seems to clarify what was initially announced albeit with a preface of an apology statement. 

Kind of ‘Sorry but we are not sorry’ ;-)

… and no, the smartphone analogy does not stand. I know in advance that my android phone will only receive roughly 2 years of updates. After that , no more updates and no more security updates either. I also know that most apps I use will keep working for 3-4 years after the end of updates  (if I choose to keep my device that long). Hell, I can root the smartphone and use Lineage OS to extend the life. I have both i) choice and iii) in advance information to enable me to decide on purchasing or not. 

With apple it is different, less freedom but then again I have the information that my smartphone will be updated for 6 years. I know this in advance though so I choose to buy or not based on that information. 
 

… and I only have a single smartphone, I don't need to replace an android phone for each room in my place :-)

Thanks. Thinking about what would be needed for reinstating sales. It would be, indeed drastically, a full retraction from the announced path along with a new and different plan for the future.

The new plan should contain some rock-solid guarantees for the life-length of each product as well as some attractive perks for regular customers, such as serious rebates on add-on purchases and buy-back offers. If anything in such a plan includes retiring devices, the full process for this should be disclosed, including what will happen to the old ones and how this can be said to be the best solution for the environment and for their customers’ economy.

We need to see some kind of ROI calculation for the alternative solutions (“ROI” as understood by a consumer with a mixed focus on technological development, daily use convenience, and money).

We also need to see specific actions on the environmental area. This debate has revealed that at least a large share of current users do care about the environment.

And we need to see an honest and forward-looking plan for the existing products, complete with retirement date and a gradually reduced support that stretches over a number of years.

Finally, for trust to be regained, I could imagine that a more open concept will be necessary. Many customers have expressed a new anxiety of being tied to one vendor and would prefer a solution that can be maintained even if the current vendor goes out of business or changes strategy. The IKEA collaboration is in this respect already a step in the right direction - more must come.

I do think, however, that we will all have to swallow the bitter pill of accepting that each product will have a finite life-length - it just needs to be announced way ahead of the end-of-life, and for new products be available before the purchase decision is made.

This will be a new start for Sonos - but one that could lead to growth and happy customers. And the CEO capable of doing this would come out of the mess as a rescuing hero.

It’s not that i dont like the idea, but this is not feasible because of the price it would cost.

It seems that the Play 1 has a PCB just like the one in the Ikea Symfonisk but with the difference that they play 1 has 64/128 (Flash/Ram) and the Symfonisk has 256/512

So you should be able to buy a Symfonisk, disassemble it, disassemble the Play 1 and swap PCB’s and then discard the symfonisk.

You would then have a Symfonisk in a Play 1 cabinet, and from what i have read, there is no difference in how the 2 works in day to day operation.

What is more chocking is that the old Play 5 has 32/32, while the 2.gen only has 256/256 whereas the Sonos one and the move has 1024/1024

I wonder how many years before even the Play 5 2.gen will be obsolete because of lack of ram/rom as it only has ¼ of modern devices