End of Software Support - Clarifications

End of Software Support - Clarifications
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U
Userlevel 6
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You are right, it's not like buying a mobile phone.  Three years ago I bought a Ssmsung Galaxy phone for around £650. I bought a Play:5 gen 2 for £499 around same time. The phone might last me another year, maybe 2. The Play:5 will be fully supported until 5 years after Sonos stop selling it. I would guess that will give me 10 years use, fully supported . Thank God that buying a Sonos is not like buying a phone. 

Do you re buy all the lightbulbs in your house even when they’re still working? How about your plumbing? What about your car? Car manufacturers like money too, you know! You should throw away your car (No reselling it remember! It has to go in the landfill) and buy another one of the same capability to help them out!

Phones are not a fair comparison to the Sonos system.  A mobile phone of 10 years ago does dramatically less than one of the present era, and what’s more, if you choose to stick with an old phone it doesn’t sabotage every other mobile device you own by preventing them updating. You can even call a new phone from an old one! Fancy that. 

U
Userlevel 6
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What happens when my Playbar’s surrounds become legacy? will I lose my surround sound?

Based on what we know, yes. They will not be able to be part of the same Sonos installation. 

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

I was angry, very angry … but if they can come up with a solution which enables all speakers, old and new, to work seamlessly with features extant today, and new features possibly being restricted to modern units, then I'm happy once more….Refer to earlier posts where I’ve picked up glimmers of such hope in media (BBC/Evening Standard/ Slashgear)

 

There are a few posts on here who can also see this through the fog of hysteria, which to my eyes might be lifting (slightly) and hope these thoughts are picked up by Ryan S and reported back ….

It's not happening.  New units once updated will not be able to synchronise with legacy units.  As soon as only the latest software will work with spotify etc, legacy units are landfill.

Sonos could choose to implement software that will allow newer units to be a master to legacy units and keep them all part of one environment.  Or they could develop a control box to sit on the network and do this.

The truth is they dont want to, it's far easier to cut loose the "legacy" hardware and hope people will upgrade.  If you are sat on £3k worth of connect amps, tough.  Sonos dont want to know.  They are moving to a 5 year premium subscription model for their hardware and that's it.

 

F
Userlevel 2

So here’s my question to SONOS Management …. its really simple.

Every Sonos product in my my home works , it does exactly what I need it to do. I do not want or need any new updates, my own router is protecting me from the nasty people out there. The only people out there I am afraid of is you. So how can I ensure “YOU” do not break it.

 

U
Userlevel 6
Badge +4

For anyone who hasn’t come across this there is a relevant petition on change.org here : https://www.change.org/p/sonos-we-want-sonos-to-reverse-their-decision-to-stop-supporting-their-expensive-speakers

It probably won’t achieve anything but it also won’t take you very long to sign it so it can’t hurt...

H

Dear Sonos,

 

Your mindset as expressed in your information about this issue is that Sonos hardware can be compared to a PC.  We’ve come to be accustomed to PCs having a limited life span.

 

This is however not the mindset that most of us have when it comes to speakers.  And speakers are what most people believe Sonos is all about.  Not a software platform or smart house gadget.  Sure, a very smart speaker system, but speakers nonetheless.

 

The thing with quality speakers is that they tend to be expensive.  On the other hand they seldom break down and pretty much never goes obsolete.  Ergo you do not expect that you will have to replace all your speakers because of some software issue.

 

Your announcement has been somewhat of a wake-up call for many, including myself:  With speakers where software plays a crucial part, you must expect the speakers to become obsolete at some point because of software issues, and certainly long before the hardware side of the equation would be anywhere close to retirement.  

 

It probably should have dawned on me when our remote controls were rendered obsolete because of software issues.

 

Personally, it feels terribly wrong to regard your speaker system as anything else than an investment, both because of financial og environmental concerns.

 

Currently I’m thinking that I’ll never buy a Sonos product again and I’ll certainly stop my ambassadorship.  In fact, now I feel bad for the people that I’ve convinced to buy Sonos.

 

On the other hand, the question is what will I buy - if and when the need arises?  

 

What I think I’m not alone in contemplating, is to approach speakers with a newfound awareness that the following requirements must be met:

 

1. Has excellent sound

2. Is convenient

3. Does not risk becoming obsolete prematurely because of software issues

 

Sonos has 1. covered, 2. for my part dramatically less so after the loss of a dedicated remote control, and has proven that 3. is not a concern (for Sonos).

 

I just ordered the iPort Xpress remote control, and even though this is a ridiculously simple remote that does not even allow you to play a favourite song over again, i.e. no backward button, our Sonos experience is about to become a bit more convenient than it has been since we stupidly recycled our Sonos remote controls.

 

Now, if Sonos would do something to really address number 3., removing the fear that will still linger even after the adjustments that you’ve made to your initial announcement, then I might consider buying Sonos again.

 

Good luck.

 

Best regards,

Hans Christian

L

Sonos,

What a poorly thought out decision you have taken. I too am an early adopter of Sonos products and have advised friends and family to purchase your products. NO MORE, you are a greedy rip off company that has little regard for it’s customers. I have a number of Play 5s, amps, connect amps, connects, and a CR200 controler. All expensive kit and was ment to be an investment that would last. I was intending expanding in to a tv suround system knowing that all my system would be good for many, many, many years, aparently this will not be the case. I 

Your update program seems very much to me like a scam, thought out by one of your CEOs to boost sales. I see through it and will not be fooled. I hope this backfires on you and you loose your loyal customers.

Mr Pissed off.

I
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

I was angry, very angry … but if they can come up with a solution which enables all speakers, old and new, to work seamlessly with features extant today, and new features possibly being restricted to modern units, then I'm happy once more….Refer to earlier posts where I’ve picked up glimmers of such hope in media (BBC/Evening Standard/ Slashgear)

 

There are a few posts on here who can also see this through the fog of hysteria, which to my eyes might be lifting (slightly) and hope these thoughts are picked up by Ryan S and reported back ….

It's not happening.  New units once updated will not be able to synchronise with legacy units.  As soon as only the latest software will work with spotify etc, legacy units are landfill.

Sonos could choose to implement software that will allow newer units to be a master to legacy units and keep them all part of one environment.  Or they could develop a control box to sit on the network and do this.

The truth is they dont want to, it's far easier to cut loose the "legacy" hardware and hope people will upgrade.  If you are sat on £3k worth of connect amps, tough.  Sonos dont want to know.  They are moving to a 5 year premium subscription model for their hardware and that's it.

 

If you are correct, then my anger remains...

A
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

And so it begins

retailers-move-to-dump-sonos

Sounds like Sonos is indeed under pressure - and combined with having an unhealthy tone towards their partners and a technological base that is not modern, they have now begun doing such absurd things like we have seen recently. Certainly a sign of desperation from a company that doesn’t know what to do.

No disrespect, but what the hell is “Channel News”? To be very frank, that was one of the most poorly written and worded pieces I’ve read on the web in a bit… and one has to be forgiving of web pieces. I’ve seen posts here in the forum put together better (not mine, mind you, but they’re here :relaxed: ). Just had a strange air to it as well.

Yes, that online magazine seems to be quite negative towards Sonos - they have other articles with more or less the same tone.

To be fair to the website, they've just given a decent review to the IKEA Sonos speaker

https://www.channelnews.com.au/review-symfonisk-affordable-sonos-with-one-strange-design/

On the point about negativity I'm sorry, but the minute Sonos as a company seemingly decided to engage in subterfuge to try to force it's loyal customers into unnecessary upgrades with scare tactics ("Your System Needs Attention") it deserves to be called out, however negative that might be.

To compound matters further, the apparent deceit continued with the CEO's statement which is an even worse betrayal of trust if the report is correct.

Please read the article below & tell me this wasn't the intention, as this is what it looks like to me.

I don't see a defence from Sonos, just platitudes and vague promises.

https://www.channelnews.com.au/retailers-move-to-dump-sonos/

How can we, as loyal customers, even begin to trust Sonos again if this is how the company now operates?

L

The message from Patrick Spence is welcome but it beggars belief that a corporation the size of Sonos can get it this wrong. Very pleased to see that the Customer remains king! What has still not been addressed is the environmental impact of the still bricked returned units if I decide to upgrade at some stage. What is happening to these?

Sadly the customer does not remain king. The message simply says we’re going to do what we said in the first place - stop updating software on your ‘legacy’ units (they might update bug/security aspects but they will potentially still stop working as soon as a streaming service updates its API). And if you want to keep using your legacy units while they last, they won’t interface with any new units you buy (or any “modern” units you own if you dare to update the software on them) - you will have to have two systems.

But if you look at some media comments, there may be a glimmer of hope that, whatever may have been their original intention, they are saying the issue was the inability of older units to be updated with capacity hungry modern updates. If one can’t update, none can.  Therefore looking to split system for updates so each generation receives appropriate updates.  One comment says looking then to see if old and new can work together… but does say not sure if they can… look at my earlier posts and you can see the development/ reference points of these arguments.. If this can be made to work with newer units accessing new features but old ones like out from them, but all units working together when requirement is within their capability, then I’m as happy as I was before and will upgrade when I feel the need to have the newer features… If whole home grouping not possible, then I remain angry… 

I think you are projecting an enormous amount of what you want to see on to the situation. There has been nothing from Sonos in any of these announcements that has entertained the idea that legacy and current will work together. NOTHING. 

The articles in the media you refer to also do not quote anyone at Sonos saying anything directly that changes anything. I think you give the journalists too much credit; some of them are doing the same thing you are and reading the wishy-washy language from Sonos and assuming the most positive interpretation of the ambiguity.

The number one reason to refuse sonos the benefit of the doubt is simply that we (referring to the members of the community who are technical, which isn’t everyone) know for a cast iron fact that there is NO barrier to an integrated system continuing to work other than Sonos’ business decision not to do so, yet Sonos have dodged this point in every statement and forum post they’ve made on this point.

They don’t want your old components to continue to work, they just want you to shut up and buy some new ones. They aren’t trying to do the best they can by you in the face of technical limitations, they’re trying to make the weakest possible commitments they can to make the complaining stop. That’s it.


I think you are spot on with your comments.

J
Userlevel 4
Badge +3

Lost my trust from Sonos today. Will switch to B&O or some other brand for my next sound system. Never heard om anything like this threatening customers to buy the latest hardware. Catastrophic. 

Agree - the threathening is the worst of it all.

“This is a chance now to come up with a system that doesn’t cause massive planetary damage in exchange for disposable stuff,” Proctor said. (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3a8dpn/sonos-makes-it-clear-you-no-longer-own-the-things-you-buy)
A
Userlevel 2

I felt it important to share my displeasure at the behaviour of Sonos along with everyone else.

 

I’ve purchased six products since 2013 and would regard myself as a happy and loyal Sonos customer. I’ve regularly praised both my the quality of my Sonos equipment and the company itself to friends, family and colleagues alike.

 

Part of the reason I was happy to pay more for Sonos products was an expectation of them lasting for many years, not least given the excellent build quality (and how often do you typically need to buy new speakers in any case?)  I mainly stream my own music collection plus also make use of internet radio.

 

The recent cack handed attempt to try and encourage customers with otherwise perfectly functioning equipment to upgrade struck me as ludicrous as well as not environmentally friendly.  

 

Together with the ‘end of software support’ announcements I’m questioning how long all my expensive equipment will work before I am forced to change/’upgrade’ it.  A strange way to treat the many loyal Sonos fans the company previously had.  I have now lost confidence in the company and will not purchase any further Sonos equipment until my trust is regained, which, sadly, it may never be.

 

In addition I now find myself in the strange position of bad mouthing and recommending against purchasing anything Sonos to the very people I was previously happily recommending it to.

A
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

....I now find myself in the strange position of bad mouthing and recommending against purchasing anything Sonos to the very people I was previously happily recommending it to.

 

...and that ^ is the saddest part in all this.

The pursuit of short-term cynical corporate gain at the expense of the very people who made the company successful.

D

I don’t need new features or redesigned menus. I just need my Connect to stream music to my stereo receiver and my wireless speakers. 

 

I want to leave my Sonos system with legacy products as it is. What’s going to change?

Your Sonos system will no longer receive updates, so your experience will initially remain the same. However, the functionality of features and services will be impacted as technology, particularly music service and voice partners, evolves over time.

How long until existing functionality or features are impacted?

We don’t expect any immediate impact from ending software updates.

As changes are made to technology in the future, particularly by music service and voice partners, access to certain services or features may be disrupted. An example would be a music service partner issuing a new update that isn’t backwards compatible with legacy software.

 

From what I interpreted Spence’s most recent public statement to mean, essentially Sonos is holding firm to it’s planned obsolescence. If, say, Spotify changes something in how it’s music is streamed, a simple update to existing Sonos legacy devices to allow access to Spotify’s changes will not be performed and essentially your legacy Sonos devices will cease to work. 

This is unacceptable. No one is asking for an extended warranty. No one is asking for new features until the end of time. 


All that is being asked is that our devices work in the manner that was advertised when we purchased them. If I had been informed that Sonos would no longer allow my Connect to stream music 5 years after I purchased it, I never would have purchased any Sonos products in the first place. 

 

This is a disaster. Instead of creating loyal customers that are brand loyal you have, in one fell swoop, not only prevented existing customers from becoming repeat customers, but you have effectively created a vocal group that will warn everyone they come in contact with to steer clear of Sonos. 

G

It is truly a tremendous shame.
I have spent thousands of Euros on Sonos products believing that simply listening to music on good products would last for years. Disappointing.
Sirs of Sonos look for new buyers but do not force them to change those who already have their products simply because it occurs to you that they must evolve. I do not believe that these products cannot have updates simply working as they are. I do not want new features, or change my speakers for new ones with a 30% discount, I want mine, which I have spent a lot of money on them, working as they are. Simply a very good sound quality and music in Streaming. There's no more.
It is a shame, and as you have made that decision, I will also make the decision not to continue buying Sonos products, knowing that in 6 years of your purchase they will become obsolete.
No, not with me, I have been scammed once. It will not happen again.
Thank you for reconsidering your decision and I will reconsider mine. But the damage to the brand is done ...

N
Userlevel 3
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It seems telling that Ryan_S has not made a comment or clarification in many, many pages of posts. 

Either we’re all being allowed to vent, or there’s nothing new to say. Or both.

I’m reading along, but there hasn’t been much in need of clarification that hasn’t already been said.

And everyone is definitely allowed to vent. As long as the community rules are followed (for example no personal attacks and keeping profanity out of your posts) we welcome the feedback. I’m also making sure to share your voice with the right people.

I think that there are many of us that need to understand whether or not our concerns for the current stance of not entertaining any method by which our legacy and modern components can mix, to stream the same content through legacy products and modern products, are being discussed, or if Sonos does not care about these concerns. There very much is a need for clarification on this as it is the difference between how we choose to go forward with our relationship with Sonos as customers.

I’m not naive enough to expect an answer, but I think we would appreciate understanding if this problem is one that is being pushed up the chain to find a solution or not. After the mess that this announcement has caused, the least I think Sonos can be is honest, with 100% clarity, with us about what is being considered.

S
Userlevel 3

What happens when my Playbar’s surrounds become legacy? will I lose my surround sound?

Based on what we know, yes. They will not be able to be part of the same Sonos installation. 

That is crazy. I just bought a Playbar two weeks to work with older Sonos speakers i had bought years ago,

B
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

That doesn't work for me, Sonos products are extremely expensive and I buy for quality and fully functional longevity.  I want the current ones to operate with full features from latest software releases, not be restricted due to a ‘legacy’ product on the system.  In addition, all manufacturers should be trying to be eco-friendly and not force obsolescence.  It may also well be down to lazy programing, just because a new version of a product may have more memory, etc doesn’t mean it has to be used, to the detriment of existing products.

 

If Sonos does not come up with a workable alternative to reduced functionality if there is a legacy product on the network then I for one will move to an alternative system as soon as i can.

P
Userlevel 5
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I wonder what the plan is when support for some current “modern” units gets dropped in a year or two. Presumably we could have a three way split in our systems - current “legacy” units, current modern units on newer software but no longer supported in a few years, and new modern units which are on even newer software?

P
Userlevel 1

I bought my Connect: Amp in 2017, 2 years later it’s “Legacy”?  I didn’t know I should have been super careful about the manufacture date.  

What happened to the “keep adding to your system each year” way of thinking? 

$455 after a 30% discount is a slap in the face to replace a perfectly functioning amp. 

Now there’s conflicting information as to whether or not “legacy” products will get software updates. 

This sucks.

I also purchased a Connect Amp about two years ago. Sonos was selling them online last year and now they will not be supported? This is a very bad business model. I just purchased a sub. I’m afraid it will be added to the list next year or the very near future. The same goes for my Play 1s and the first version Ones. I’ve dropped so much money on these products thinking they would last awhile. I’m going to cut my loses and begin to switch them out with Amazon Echo products. #sonosbrickthis

J
Userlevel 1

I bought my Connect: Amp in 2017, 2 years later it’s “Legacy”?  I didn’t know I should have been super careful about the manufacture date.  

What happened to the “keep adding to your system each year” way of thinking? 

$455 after a 30% discount is a slap in the face to replace a perfectly functioning amp. 

Now there’s conflicting information as to whether or not “legacy” products will get software updates. 

This sucks.

I also purchased a Connect Amp about two years ago. Sonos was selling them online last year and now they will not be supported? This is a very bad business model. I just purchased a sub. I’m afraid it will be added to the list next year or the very near future. The same goes for my Play 1s and the first version Ones. I’ve dropped so much money on these products thinking they would last awhile. I’m going to cut my loses and begin to switch them out with Amazon Echo products. #sonosbrickthis

One way they could have avoided situations like yours would have been to continue to add memory and upgrade processors each year, but they obviously just keep selling with the same specs year after year even though tech has advanced and become cheaper.

They created the mess, want the consumer to pay for it, and offer up no plans to alter the course for the future. In addition, these vital memory and processor specifications are nowhere to be found in their product descriptions, and so they expect us to continue to pay top dollar while being kept in the dark on what exactly it is that we are buying...

J

I am raising a ticket with Sonos support to see if I can disable all updates to my devices and phone. 

I just realised that I have never actually needed an update to my system since it was bought! I was happy with tune in, play from this device, play from network and that’s it. ( May be I’m just a complete Dino?). The Updates never fixed an issue I experienced! However, the updates have removed “play from this device” and will now mean that I have 2 legacy speaker out of 6… oh and the legacy speakers are my most recent purchases!!

So why have automatic updates enabled… security? Really, if you have the speaker product only (not the “one” series) do you really care that someone in China knows that your dark secret is that you listen to Britney? Oh and let’s face it… they only find the security issues after it has been exploited!

 

 

Why are you emailing Support? You can turn off automatic system updates in the Sonos app and controller updates in your app store.

S

Apologies if this has been asked before, but does anyone know what the position is regarding on-going software updates for the play 3?

It seems it is too old to receive an Airplay 2 upgrade but not old enough to stop receiving software updates after May 2020. Is this correct or did software updates for the play 3 stop prior to this recent announcement?

Given the relatively similar hardware specification of both the play 5 gen 1 and play 3, a decision to stop software updates for the play 5 gen 1, but continue them for the play 3, looks a bit suspect if it is being justified on the grounds of hardware limitations.

P
Userlevel 5
Badge +1

I am raising a ticket with Sonos support to see if I can disable all updates to my devices and phone. 

I just realised that I have never actually needed an update to my system since it was bought! I was happy with tune in, play from this device, play from network and that’s it. ( May be I’m just a complete Dino?). The Updates never fixed an issue I experienced! However, the updates have removed “play from this device” and will now mean that I have 2 legacy speaker out of 6… oh and the legacy speakers are my most recent purchases!!

So why have automatic updates enabled… security? Really, if you have the speaker product only (not the “one” series) do you really care that someone in China knows that your dark secret is that you listen to Britney? Oh and let’s face it… they only find the security issues after it has been exploited!

 

 

Why are you emailing Support? You can turn off automatic system updates in the Sonos app and controller updates in your app store.

And with respect, whilst you may not have realised you needed the update there is a good chance that without it your system wouldn’t have kept on working with tune in/ play from network!

J

Apologies if this has been asked before, but does anyone know what the position is regarding on-going software updates for the play 3?

It seems it is too old to receive an Airplay 2 upgrade but not old enough to stop receiving software updates after May 2020. Is this correct or did software updates for the play 3 stop prior to this recent announcement?

Given the relatively similar hardware specification of both the play 5 gen 1 and play 3, a decision to stop software updates for the play 5 gen 1, but continue them for the play 3, looks a bit suspect if it is being justified on the grounds of hardware limitations.

Sonos have committed to supporting speakers for a minimum of 5 years after they discontinue sales. So they are kerping a promise, not that anybody on tbis thread is going to believe that. 

Also, the P:3 has twice the RAM of the p:5 gen 1 I believe.

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