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Beam: Keeps switching back to ARC from Bluetooth - how to stop?



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Interesting, thanks for the response!

I did find this page (https://www.samsung.com/us/support/troubleshooting/TSG01111222/#turn-off-automatic-hdmi-switching-with-smart-remote) which suggests it's possible to turn off the automatic switching without turning off CEC, but it had no effect on my TV. 

It’s been a while since I read the full CEC spec, but I think, if I remember correctly, its not a turn on/off signal, it’s a “is a client present” or “is a client not present”, matching what you initially suggested in your post.

Which is why, if you read a bunch of the threads about this, folks suggest turning off CEC on the TV set, so it’s no longer looking for the client’s existence, particularly for folks who are trying to add a set of headphones. But it’s the CEC controller, i.e. the TV set, in charge, as opposed to any particular client, such as Sonos.

 

Sure, but switching inputs is a single CEC command right? So Sonos must keep sending that command. Either that or Samsung is switching input based on some other CEC feature. 

Might be worth reading the Wikipedia entry for CEC . Sonos doesn’t really control that system, they just implement the API as it is agreed upon/written by others. 

I have the same issue as the OP with a Samsung TV.

Seems like the Beam must be sending a constant signal over CEC to force the TV to switch back to it. I thought that CEC would only change the input when a device was first turned on.

Annoyingly this even happens when the Beam is set to output something other than TV. This makes for a poor user experience 😔

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I did consider the Arcana but with the shield it would be nearly 25% of the system cost again for slight convenience. If there were no alternatives, I would settle for disabling eARC, CEC, using headphones & then changing it all back again rather than cover that additional cost. I just have a get out of jail free card given Sonos’ excellent returns period. I was happy to accept enabling/disabling CEC from the quick menu but any more than that is asking too much.

I’m not sure adding a port & grouping it would be an effective solution. It’s the same headset I use with my PC and it’s not unusual my other half is watching TV & I’ll be using my headphones through the PC. I’m not 100% sure but I imagine it will involve more messing about to swap to and fro.

For what it’s worth I’ve emailed LG support today to ask about it. I’ll update with their response. 

One other potential solution is to use an HD Fury Arcana, as that would bypass using the TVs eARC and CEC.  Arcana isn’t cheap though, and you would need an external source like a Shield.  So  I would understand if you just want to go with the Q950A for budget reason. 

It clearly sounds like an LG issue, but LG has little motivation to fix audio related issues on their TVs.  And your return period does matter.

It must surely be an LG issue, because it all works fine on their C9 OLED TV and it works on an older 2015 LG TV we have in our Home too. We just disable Simplink to use the other TV outputs, like Bluetooth.

There is one other solution I can think of …and that is to purchase a Sonos Port/Connect (gen2), add a Bluetooth transmitter to its line-out and group it with the HT room - I have the Port and can confirm it works okay too and is fine (for me) for lip-sync purposes (unless I just happen to be lucky in that regard)… I just quickly tested it with this cheap transmitter: 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07J58KY3X

@RBM1505 
As Danny mentions, whatever system you go with next, ensure it doesn’t use HDMI-ARC/eARC with CEC as you’ll certainly just end up with the same issue.

I also agree that powering off the Arc is not the answer - but I would certainly get in touch with the TV Support desk to make them aware that CEC is auto-enabling itself on the TV as ‘that’ is clearly a TV fault with the TV firmware.

I use an LG C9 TV and to switch from the HDMI-ARC/eARC output  to use Bluetooth output, I just toggle off ‘CEC’ (calked ‘Simplink’ on an LG TV) and it automatically disables auto-power-sync (used to power devices on/off) and clearly in the case of your TV that is not working as it should be. I would certainly make the TV manufacturer aware that has caused you an issue here and that it may arise in the future too if you have other CEC enable devices connected to the TV that ‘may’ go onto occasionally steal the output port focus when listening to the audio over a Bluetooth connected headset.

If you disable CEC on the TV - it should stay disabled.

Do you have eARC enabled? 

I have an LG C1. I can get CEC to remain off, I just have to turn off eARC in audio settings first. 

From looking around this doesn’t seem to be an issue with the q950a for example, nor the Bose systems. I will find out soon enough once this return is processed. 

 

The Q950a has HDMI inputs(source) and outputs to the TV.  It does have eARC, but I doubt many users are turning this on, as it would only be needed for TV internal apps.  And it would be a smaller subset of people who use eARC and bluetooth headphones...and the TV CEC doesn’t stay off.

 

I could use something like the Q950A + an Nvidia Shield and that would be cost neutral to the Sonos return. Plus I have a bit more functionality with the Shield. 

I tried to turn off auto power sync on the TV and it just re-enables itself - same issue as Simplink. The only option to get this current setup to work would be to either unplug the HDMI (PITA to faff about behind the TV daily) or smart plug which as you say is bad for the speakers. Due to lack of HDMI pass through on the Arc I am limited in work arounds. 

 

 

One other potential solution is to use an HD Fury Arcana, as that would bypass using the TVs eARC and CEC.  Arcana isn’t cheap though, and you would need an external source like a Shield.  So  I would understand if you just want to go with the Q950A for budget reason. 

Figuring out if this a fault with the LG or Sonos doesn’t really help me - this issue seems to have been going on for >2 years so I think a software update from either side is unlikely. The Sonos is within it’s return period but the LG is not, so the Sonos system has to go back. 

 

It clearly sounds like an LG issue, but LG has little motivation to fix audio related issues on their TVs.  And your return period does matter.

Same issue , sonos amp. Please sonos fix this problem.

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@RBM1505 
As Danny mentions, whatever system you go with next, ensure it doesn’t use HDMI-ARC/eARC with CEC as you’ll certainly just end up with the same issue.

I also agree that powering off the Arc is not the answer - but I would certainly get in touch with the TV Support desk to make them aware that CEC is auto-enabling itself on the TV as ‘that’ is clearly a TV fault with the TV firmware.

I use an LG C9 TV and to switch from the HDMI-ARC/eARC output  to use Bluetooth output, I just toggle off ‘CEC’ (calked ‘Simplink’ on an LG TV) and it automatically disables auto-power-sync (used to power devices on/off) and clearly in the case of your TV that is not working as it should be. I would certainly make the TV manufacturer aware that has caused you an issue here and that it may arise in the future too if you have other CEC enable devices connected to the TV that ‘may’ go onto occasionally steal the output port focus when listening to the audio over a Bluetooth connected headset.

If you disable CEC on the TV - it should stay disabled.

Do you have eARC enabled? 

I have an LG C1. I can get CEC to remain off, I just have to turn off eARC in audio settings first. 

From looking around this doesn’t seem to be an issue with the q950a for example, nor the Bose systems. I will find out soon enough once this return is processed. 

 

The Q950a has HDMI inputs(source) and outputs to the TV.  It does have eARC, but I doubt many users are turning this on, as it would only be needed for TV internal apps.  And it would be a smaller subset of people who use eARC and bluetooth headphones...and the TV CEC doesn’t stay off.

 

I could use something like the Q950A + an Nvidia Shield and that would be cost neutral to the Sonos return. Plus I have a bit more functionality with the Shield. 

I tried to turn off auto power sync on the TV and it just re-enables itself - same issue as Simplink. The only option to get this current setup to work would be to either unplug the HDMI (PITA to faff about behind the TV daily) or smart plug which as you say is bad for the speakers. Due to lack of HDMI pass through on the Arc I am limited in work arounds. 

Figuring out if this a fault with the LG or Sonos doesn’t really help me - this issue seems to have been going on for >2 years so I think a software update from either side is unlikely. The Sonos is within it’s return period but the LG is not, so the Sonos system has to go back. 

@RBM1505,
Yes of course eARC and CEC are both initially enabled when using the Sonos HT products and CEC (Simplink, or it’s equivalent) must be ‘disabled’ by the user on any/every brand of TV to then use the Bluetooth or any other type of audio output that the TV has.

That’s how the LG TV works with CEC (Simplink) - but once CEC is toggled ‘off’, it should switch off auto-power-sync too (automatically) so that there is then no way the Sonos device can then take back control of the TV (and vice versa) and use the HDMI-2 (ARC/eARC) port. 

CEC should not (ever) auto-enable and switch back ‘on’. If that’s what is happening on the C1, then it’s a firmware fault IMHO - CEC should stay switched ‘off’ allowing you to use your Bluetooth headset.

This will happen with any HT device that uses the TV’s ‘audio return channel features’ with CEC control - but once you switch CEC ‘off’ to use the Bluetooth headset - the TV should not switch back to outputting to the Sonos Arc until you re-enable Simplink (CEC).

It should be a simple case of toggling CEC (Simplink) ‘off/on’ to use your Bluetooth headset and HT system and if that’s not the case, then it is the TV firmware that’s likely at fault.

Even if we were to ask Sonos to ‘fix this’ by switching off CEC at their end - you would find yourself going into the Sonos App settings instead to switch off CEC on the Arc - it’s just as easy, if not far easier, to switch off CEC (Simplink) in the TV settings, plus it’s a toggle feature/option that every TV has already - so it’s not something that Sonos needs to fix anyway IMHO. 

@RBM1505 
As Danny mentions, whatever system you go with next, ensure it doesn’t use HDMI-ARC/eARC with CEC as you’ll certainly just end up with the same issue.

I also agree that powering off the Arc is not the answer - but I would certainly get in touch with the TV Support desk to make them aware that CEC is auto-enabling itself on the TV as ‘that’ is clearly a TV fault with the TV firmware.

I use an LG C9 TV and to switch from the HDMI-ARC/eARC output  to use Bluetooth output, I just toggle off ‘CEC’ (calked ‘Simplink’ on an LG TV) and it automatically disables auto-power-sync (used to power devices on/off) and clearly in the case of your TV that is not working as it should be. I would certainly make the TV manufacturer aware that has caused you an issue here and that it may arise in the future too if you have other CEC enable devices connected to the TV that ‘may’ go onto occasionally steal the output port focus when listening to the audio over a Bluetooth connected headset.

If you disable CEC on the TV - it should stay disabled.

Do you have eARC enabled? 

I have an LG C1. I can get CEC to remain off, I just have to turn off eARC in audio settings first. 

From looking around this doesn’t seem to be an issue with the q950a for example, nor the Bose systems. I will find out soon enough once this return is processed. 

 

The Q950a has HDMI inputs(source) and outputs to the TV.  It does have eARC, but I doubt many users are turning this on, as it would only be needed for TV internal apps.  And it would be a smaller subset of people who use eARC and bluetooth headphones...and the TV CEC doesn’t stay off.

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@RBM1505 
As Danny mentions, whatever system you go with next, ensure it doesn’t use HDMI-ARC/eARC with CEC as you’ll certainly just end up with the same issue.

I also agree that powering off the Arc is not the answer - but I would certainly get in touch with the TV Support desk to make them aware that CEC is auto-enabling itself on the TV as ‘that’ is clearly a TV fault with the TV firmware.

I use an LG C9 TV and to switch from the HDMI-ARC/eARC output  to use Bluetooth output, I just toggle off ‘CEC’ (calked ‘Simplink’ on an LG TV) and it automatically disables auto-power-sync (used to power devices on/off) and clearly in the case of your TV that is not working as it should be. I would certainly make the TV manufacturer aware that has caused you an issue here and that it may arise in the future too if you have other CEC enable devices connected to the TV that ‘may’ go onto occasionally steal the output port focus when listening to the audio over a Bluetooth connected headset.

If you disable CEC on the TV - it should stay disabled.

Do you have eARC enabled? 

I have an LG C1. I can get CEC to remain off, I just have to turn off eARC in audio settings first. 

From looking around this doesn’t seem to be an issue with the q950a for example, nor the Bose systems. I will find out soon enough once this return is processed. 

@RBM1505 
As Danny mentions, whatever system you go with next, ensure it doesn’t use HDMI-ARC/eARC with CEC as you’ll certainly just end up with the same issue.

I also agree that powering off the Arc is not the answer - but I would certainly get in touch with the TV Support desk to make them aware that CEC is auto-enabling itself on the TV as ‘that’ is clearly a TV fault with the TV firmware.

I use an LG C9 TV and to switch from the HDMI-ARC/eARC output  to use Bluetooth output, I just toggle off ‘CEC’ (calked ‘Simplink’ on an LG TV) and it automatically disables auto-power-sync (used to power devices on/off) and clearly in the case of your TV that is not working as it should be. I would certainly make the TV manufacturer aware that has caused you an issue here and that it may arise in the future too if you have other CEC enable devices connected to the TV that ‘may’ go onto occasionally steal the output port focus when listening to the audio over a Bluetooth connected headset.

If you disable CEC on the TV - it should stay disabled.

Just bought an arc/sub/ones as a full surround setup for over 2k. 

I use Bluetooth headphones at night when my other half has gone to bed. My other half uses the headphones when I work nights. I cannot just simply turn off CEC as it auto-enables. I would need to change multiple settings, every night & teach my other half to do the same. It also increases the chances of the sound coming out of the wrong device which would accidently wake the other person up. I cannot run through optical as I lose Atmos. This is a non-negotiable use case. I went with Sonos because it’s just supposed to work. 

Attitude from Sonos CS on this issue is very poor. They’re being returned, fortunately within 100 days so the only person losing money is them. There is a lot of competition in the wireless surround market and I will just go with a competitor. The sound is great but nothing special at this price point, what appealed is they were just supposed to work. Janky work arounds like setting up a smart plug are not acceptable on this system. 

 

Make sure that whatever system you go with, you aren’t utilizing HDMI-ARC/eARC technology (which will include CEC).  It needs to be something where your sources connect to the audio system first, and your audio system connects to the TV.

And I agree that setting up a smart plug, while might be ok for some, it’s really an ideal solution.  For one thing, Sonos products are designed to be always on.  While the occasional reboot is fine, it’s not good for the life of the speaker. You don’t really want to cut power and reboot every time you switch between headphones and speakers.

Userlevel 2

Just bought an arc/sub/ones as a full surround setup for over 2k. 

I use Bluetooth headphones at night when my other half has gone to bed. My other half uses the headphones when I work nights. I cannot just simply turn off CEC as it auto-enables. I would need to change multiple settings, every night & teach my other half to do the same. It also increases the chances of the sound coming out of the wrong device which would accidentally wake the other person. I cannot run through optical as I lose Atmos. This is a non-negotiable use case. I went with Sonos because it’s just supposed to work. 

Attitude from Sonos CS on this issue is very poor - advice to use optical shows fundamentally poor understanding of their products & end users. They’re being returned, fortunately within 100 days so the only person losing money is them. There is a lot of competition in the wireless surround market and I will just go with a competitor. The sound is great but nothing special at this price point, what appealed is they were just supposed to work. Janky work arounds like setting up a smart plug are not acceptable on this system. 

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Thanks for all the replies. 

Seems like CEC needs to an update to read what audio output the TV is set to. Something LG / Sonos and whoever oversees the CEC protocol need to work together on. It’s supposed to be a “smart” solution, so its understandable why users don’t like the way it works in its current form.

Before EArc/ Soundbars / Sonos etc, most enthusiasts had their home theatre systems running through AV receivers, which although bulky allowed the user to easily switch inputs to pick and choose what goes through the speakers. Intuitively, it seems like the newer systems should work in a familiar way.

Anyway - solved the problem by plugging the Sonos beam into one of these -
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-white-grid-connect-smart-plug-in-socket-with-energy-meter_p0273367

We just use Google home to cut the power to the Sonos Beam if we want to force it to use the TV speakers or the TVs bluetooth audio output.

The CEC protocol, last time I reviewed it, allowed a single speaker ‘sink’ associated with it. This is why turning off CEC allows you to switch to different speakers.

For those not familiar, CEC is a common standard used across the industry. I don’t know, offhand, if Sonos was part of the consortium of companies that designed and agreed on the standard. Sonos just implements it as designed on their Home Theater devices. 

Yeah I got this. Strange that it's been going on for so many years, and even stranger that some soundbars don't suffer from it. I wonder how other companies do it…

What bothers me much more is the loss of sound when switching source on my Samsung tv. My sister wants to remove the beam cause every time she wants to watch Netflix there's no sound unless she plays around with the settings and gets lucky...

Are you referring to Soundbars that do not use the HDMI-CEC protocol standard for controlling the volume using the TV’s native remote, whether that remote works over RF/Infrared/Bluetooth? Only I’ve not yet come across an audio receiver with those features that do not have this same issue.

I would rather use the native TV ‘remote’ for volume control rather than a separate ‘remote’ for controlling the Soundbar audio. It would be difficult to do that, If your ‘remote’ did not use infrared, without having CEC control enabled on the TV.

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I have the LG C9 OLED - all you need do there is switch off Simplink in the TV settings. I assume the same with Samsung, just switch off AnyNet+.

I believe these things are for the TV manufacturers to resolve as HDMI-CEC will stop the "output switching" once any ARC/eARC Receiver is connected. I don’t believe this is a Sonos issue.

Will switching Simplink off prevent me from using the soundbar until simplink is re-enabled? If so then it isn't a solution, and this is what the other posters here describe, from what I manage to gather.

Yes, but this is something that the TV manufacturers need to resolve with the CEC protocol - the solution by the TV manufacturers at the moment is for you to use the TV optical port instead for the audio out, rather than the HDMI audio return channel.. If Sonos fixed this, you would likely see a solution that means toggling off/on CEC control by having to go into the Sonos App settings - so you may aswell just toggle off Simplink/AnyNet+ instead, as that option is easier and it already exists, so it’s best to leave things as they are, or get the TV manufacturers to sort this... easiest thing would be to toggle off CEC with a button press on the TV remote, perhaps🤔?

Yeah I got this. Strange that it's been going on for so many years, and even stranger that some soundbars don't suffer from it. I wonder how other companies do it…

What bothers me much more is the loss of sound when switching source on my Samsung tv. My sister wants to remove the beam cause every time she wants to watch Netflix there's no sound unless she plays around with the settings and gets lucky...

I have the LG C9 OLED - all you need do there is switch off Simplink in the TV settings. I assume the same with Samsung, just switch off AnyNet+.

I believe these things are for the TV manufacturers to resolve as HDMI-CEC will stop the "output switching" once any ARC/eARC Receiver is connected. I don’t believe this is a Sonos issue.

Will switching Simplink off prevent me from using the soundbar until simplink is re-enabled? If so then it isn't a solution, and this is what the other posters here describe, from what I manage to gather.

Yes, but this is something that the TV manufacturers need to resolve with the CEC protocol - the solution by the TV manufacturers at the moment is for you to use the TV optical port instead for the audio out, rather than the HDMI audio return channel.. If Sonos fixed this, you would likely see a solution that means toggling off/on CEC control by having to go into the Sonos App settings - so you may aswell just toggle off Simplink/AnyNet+ instead, as that option is easier and it already exists, so it’s best to leave things as they are, or get the TV manufacturers to sort this... easiest thing would be to toggle off CEC with a button press on the TV remote, perhaps🤔?

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Same issue with the LG C9 and a Samsung QLED.

With the Samsung it's even worse since very often when switching source (from cable TV to PS4 to some TV app like Netflix) the sound is completely lost, and I either have to change output to TV speakers (which jumps back immediately to the beam gen 2 and sometimes fixes it), or completely turn off and on the TV and sometimes this also works.

Extremely random and very disappointing for such a premium product.

It's unacceptable that I have to play around with the output settings every time I switch source because the Sonos beam goes silent on certain sources randomly.

I have the LG C9 OLED - all you need do there is switch off Simplink in the TV settings. I assume the same with Samsung, just switch off AnyNet+.

I believe these things are for the TV manufacturers to resolve as HDMI-CEC will stop the "output switching" once any ARC/eARC Receiver is connected. I don’t believe this is a Sonos issue.

Will switching Simplink off prevent me from using the soundbar until simplink is re-enabled? If so then it isn't a solution, and this is what the other posters here describe, from what I manage to gather.

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Because people have reported not experiencing the same issues with non-Sonos products, i.e. Bose soundbars.

 

So what?  People have reported it working fine with other brands of TV's too.  That tells us nothing.

What do you mean by “so what”? If other brands work fine with the same TV then clearly this product has a problem working with this TV. And since we're talking about a very wide range of problematic TVs (LG and Samsung being popular as they are) then this is clearly an issue that needs to be resolved. And the fact that other manufacturers have solved it shows that it CAN be solved by the soundbar manufacturer, or else none would function properly...

Because people have reported not experiencing the same issues with non-Sonos products, i.e. Bose soundbars.

 

So what?  People have reported it working fine with other brands of TV's too.  That tells us nothing.

Same issue with the LG C9 and a Samsung QLED.

With the Samsung it's even worse since very often when switching source (from cable TV to PS4 to some TV app like Netflix) the sound is completely lost, and I either have to change output to TV speakers (which jumps back immediately to the beam gen 2 and sometimes fixes it), or completely turn off and on the TV and sometimes this also works.

Extremely random and very disappointing for such a premium product.

It's unacceptable that I have to play around with the output settings every time I switch source because the Sonos beam goes silent on certain sources randomly.

I have the LG C9 OLED - all you need do there is switch off Simplink in the TV settings. I assume the same with Samsung, just switch off AnyNet+.

I believe these things are for the TV manufacturers to resolve as HDMI-CEC will stop the "output switching" once any ARC/eARC Receiver is connected. I don’t believe this is a Sonos issue.

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