Spotify today announced Spotify Connect, which will be a series of hardware from well-known hardware to seamlessly integrate spotify onto devices where the control is from the regular Spotify application on your phone or similar.
Streaming is still done directly through internet, so the phone isn't in charge of it, just controls it.
I really do hope that Sonos will follow this approach as well, I believe there are a lot more like me that primarily uses Sonos for Spotify, and being able to use the same app as always would be awesome.
Seems like there is already a feature request over at ask.sonos.com https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_the_controller
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The only problem I could see with using an iPod Touch is will the Spotify app continue to run and be "discoverable" while the device is in standby? It would be very annoying to have to go to the iPod Touch and open the Spotify app/wake it up every time you want to listen to music.
I agree though that the Spotify app itself is so far beyond the functionality that Sonos provides. To be honest though, I think I could live with it as long as Sonos gets the Collection feature when that fully rolls out.
I agree though that the Spotify app itself is so far beyond the functionality that Sonos provides. To be honest though, I think I could live with it as long as Sonos gets the Collection feature when that fully rolls out.
Userlevel 7
+17
Im not sure - will have to wait and see if one device can 'wake' the other. Im considering buying one of the Pioneer Compact Wireless speakers (XW-SMA range) just to 'force' Spotify into activating Spotify Connect on my account and then returning it to the store. Lets hope I dont like it more than any of my Sonos devices !
I'm curious - why don't you just hook up an AirPort Express since it sounds like you use a lot of iOS devices? You could just AirPlay from the Spotify app now without waiting for Spotify Connect.
If I were Sonos I would seriously start looking into offering a similar service to Spotify and thus keep everything in-house.
And lose millions of dollars a year like Spotify does? Sonos does it right, they provide an easy API for anyone to link into their system, so the "here today, gone tomorrow" music providers can succeed or fail on their own.
Spotify selected a pretty long list of hardware partners. When I read between the lines of the absence of Sonos, I come up with something like this...
Spotify is having trouble making money with a great product, a broad subscription base, and a fairly high fee because the investment is huge. While Spotify is not benefitting from it's investment...Sonos really, really has (look at the profit margins in a Connect vs a Play 1). Spotify realizes that Sonos is largely a paperweight without high quality audio....and they have the best quality audio. So Spotify asks for a piece of the action and Sonos tells them to "pound sand" so it can buy fancier cars for the execs. Spotify feels that the stream is more important than the speaker, and decides put that theory to the test...
Dangerous to read between the lines, so I'd be surprised to find that any of the above is right...but that is what comes to mind as I read all of these posts (and the stuff on the web).
My hope is that the opposite is true and someone at Spotify just hates someone at Sonos. If the problem is really that Sonos doesn't value the stream, likely under pretty poor management these days.
If the management isn't the issue, I think Sonos survives this ok. Just needs to get to work on replacing Spotify. And for what it's worth, I'd swap the pricing on the Play1 and the Connect. Let's face it, the tech is the communication protocol...which is the Connect. Get THAT in the door and you'll own the house; as people decide they want a speaker in the kitchen, bedroom, etc they will opt for a clean simple all in one. Getting a Play1 in the door isn't going to convince (many) people to convert an entire home, it's just going to show them that there aren't any good streaming services that play nice with Sonos...
Spotify is having trouble making money with a great product, a broad subscription base, and a fairly high fee because the investment is huge. While Spotify is not benefitting from it's investment...Sonos really, really has (look at the profit margins in a Connect vs a Play 1). Spotify realizes that Sonos is largely a paperweight without high quality audio....and they have the best quality audio. So Spotify asks for a piece of the action and Sonos tells them to "pound sand" so it can buy fancier cars for the execs. Spotify feels that the stream is more important than the speaker, and decides put that theory to the test...
Dangerous to read between the lines, so I'd be surprised to find that any of the above is right...but that is what comes to mind as I read all of these posts (and the stuff on the web).
My hope is that the opposite is true and someone at Spotify just hates someone at Sonos. If the problem is really that Sonos doesn't value the stream, likely under pretty poor management these days.
If the management isn't the issue, I think Sonos survives this ok. Just needs to get to work on replacing Spotify. And for what it's worth, I'd swap the pricing on the Play1 and the Connect. Let's face it, the tech is the communication protocol...which is the Connect. Get THAT in the door and you'll own the house; as people decide they want a speaker in the kitchen, bedroom, etc they will opt for a clean simple all in one. Getting a Play1 in the door isn't going to convince (many) people to convert an entire home, it's just going to show them that there aren't any good streaming services that play nice with Sonos...
Userlevel 1
And for what it's worth, I'd swap the pricing on the Play1 and the Connect.
This is why you're not in management, the Play:1 is already the fastest selling Sonos hardware they've ever released. The slowest selling? The Connect (according to my national distributor). Sonos will be making far more money off of the Play:1 than they will the Connect, simply because they're selling a lot more of them.
Let's face it, the tech is the communication protocol...which is the Connect.
Now what are you talking about? The Connect is just another zoneplayer, same as the Connect:Amp, the Play:5, the Play:3 and the Play:1, they all contain the same communication protocol.
it's just going to show them that there aren't any good streaming services that play nice with Sonos...
Leaving aside that there are plenty of good streaming services that work with Sonos (and Spotify still works btw, just not Spotify Connect), what difference would putting a Connect in someone's house make compared to a Play:1, they both play EXACTLY the same streaming services, there's no difference in what's on offer.
It is not practical for hardware manufacturers to custom code for each service. It is not practical for services to custom code for each hardware player.
SONOS developed an API for services and SPOTIFY has developed an API for hardware players.
Both hope that the other side will adopt "our" API.
Without an industry standard API, a company could easily spend most of its development time simply reacting to changes that others make to private API's, rather than innovating its own product. I see this with smaller companies constantly reacting to Apple and Microsoft, rather than innovating their own products. Market leaders can use this as a strategy to "manage" potential competitors.
I'm not a SPOTIFY user, but from my remote view, it seems that there is still some "dorm room" mentality in SPOTIFY's approach to software and server management.
Personally, the services are more or less interchangeable. Sure, there might be a great feature or exclusive artist here and there, but if I'm annoyed at a service, I'll fix that issue at the end of the current billing cycle by jumping to another service.
SONOS developed an API for services and SPOTIFY has developed an API for hardware players.
Both hope that the other side will adopt "our" API.
Without an industry standard API, a company could easily spend most of its development time simply reacting to changes that others make to private API's, rather than innovating its own product. I see this with smaller companies constantly reacting to Apple and Microsoft, rather than innovating their own products. Market leaders can use this as a strategy to "manage" potential competitors.
I'm not a SPOTIFY user, but from my remote view, it seems that there is still some "dorm room" mentality in SPOTIFY's approach to software and server management.
Personally, the services are more or less interchangeable. Sure, there might be a great feature or exclusive artist here and there, but if I'm annoyed at a service, I'll fix that issue at the end of the current billing cycle by jumping to another service.
That sounds nice, but the problem is, once you've really bought into a service like Spotify, it is difficult to switch. You have put a lot of effort into playlists, songs, etc., building a "library" that you don't really own. You can't just "move" that over to a new service. Below was an interesting article on the subject. I like Spotify, and hope it continues on Sonos, at least well enough, because switching would be a real pain.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/why-i-have-to-quit-spotify/
JDCJ,
I understand your point. Why would the services want to be interchangeable? "Lock-in" would seem to be the best business model -- at least for the biggest companies. Smaller companies could create a niche by being "universal". One reason that I don't commit deeply to services is because the "cloud" is so transient -- after a short storm the cloud dissipates.
I'm surprised that we don't have a pack of 3rd party utilities that could "scrape" a playlist and re-create it on another service. Conceptually, this is not very hard, but it would be messy because there will be spelling issues and some tracks might be exclusive to one service.
I understand your point. Why would the services want to be interchangeable? "Lock-in" would seem to be the best business model -- at least for the biggest companies. Smaller companies could create a niche by being "universal". One reason that I don't commit deeply to services is because the "cloud" is so transient -- after a short storm the cloud dissipates.
I'm surprised that we don't have a pack of 3rd party utilities that could "scrape" a playlist and re-create it on another service. Conceptually, this is not very hard, but it would be messy because there will be spelling issues and some tracks might be exclusive to one service.
Userlevel 7
+17
there are services that do just that.
for example, I used http://spotizr.com/, to copy all my spotify playlists to Deezer. That part went well, the Sonos integration worked but then I tried the mobile app on my iphone and it was total rubbish. Spotify will stream non-stop during my 1 hour commute in the car over 3G. Deezer stuttered, dropped out, regularly disconnected from bluetooth and was altogether hopeless. I went back to Spotify in the end.
With these music services the whole package has to work - the music content/quality, their own app, integration with sonos, and the other features that stand them out from the rest such as how good their recommendations are or how accurate the 'radio' is in playing similar music etc.
for me, Spotify ticks the most boxes which is why Im so disappointed the relationship between Sonos and spotify has soured so much that we wont likely ever have improvements in the sonos UI with Spotify (e.g. Radio) OR Spotify Connect built into Sonos.
for example, I used http://spotizr.com/, to copy all my spotify playlists to Deezer. That part went well, the Sonos integration worked but then I tried the mobile app on my iphone and it was total rubbish. Spotify will stream non-stop during my 1 hour commute in the car over 3G. Deezer stuttered, dropped out, regularly disconnected from bluetooth and was altogether hopeless. I went back to Spotify in the end.
With these music services the whole package has to work - the music content/quality, their own app, integration with sonos, and the other features that stand them out from the rest such as how good their recommendations are or how accurate the 'radio' is in playing similar music etc.
for me, Spotify ticks the most boxes which is why Im so disappointed the relationship between Sonos and spotify has soured so much that we wont likely ever have improvements in the sonos UI with Spotify (e.g. Radio) OR Spotify Connect built into Sonos.
And hopefully Spotify will realize that Sonos is good for them too. I was a Spotify free user (desktop only) until I got Sonos. It was having Sonos that pushed me into adding the premium service, wanting to have a vast library of old and new music at my disposal. Same for a family member that I sold Sonos on and subsequently Spotify premium. It is a natural fit. I understand wanting the other guy to play by your rules (API). Hopefully both will see value in the other and continue to work together.
As long as we don't lose functionality, I am probably content with the status quo: Spotify playlists and local storage for when I know what I want to listen to and Pandora and local radio for exploring.
As long as we don't lose functionality, I am probably content with the status quo: Spotify playlists and local storage for when I know what I want to listen to and Pandora and local radio for exploring.
Userlevel 2
Utterly wrong. They play from the same service but the API Spotify exposes has like a third of the features it actually delivers in their application: no radio, no music discovery. You've got to manage everything in Spotify to make it available in Sonos, or at least, this is way more simple in Spotify.
And this is not a limitation from Sonos as they have implemented all of the exposed methods in Spotify's API.
Anyhow, Spotify has already realized Sonos is good for them. They asked Sonos to be part of the Spotify Connect initiative but Sonos' CEO refused.
He thinks tying up too close to one of the music service available out there is not aligned to Sonos' beliefs to make available all the music of the world through their speaker.
Userlevel 1
And this is not a limitation from Sonos as they have implemented all of the exposed methods in Spotify's API.
Err, I'm only "utterly wrong" if you've completely missed my point, which you have. My point was, there's no difference between the spotify functionality offered by a Sonos Connect and a Play:1, which is what the other bloke was apparently saying.
Userlevel 2
Sure. If I did, my mistake, sorry!
Userlevel 1
No worries.
Is this a joke? If not WTF!!!
Userlevel 2
I have purchased my first Sonos player only a couple of days ago.
Spotify was a major factor in my decision to purchase Sonos. I already have their premium account. I use it on my PC, iPad and iPhone.
The functionality does vary between the different uses, but they basically all seem to use the Spotify interface.
The Sonos Control varies depending on what you are controlling it with. None are actually as good as the Spotify when used on iPad or a PC. The Sonos conroller on iPhone is awkward and not particularly user friendly. iPad and desk top are far better as it's easier to navigate between what's playing and browsing for more music.
what really is missing ,especially if you use to using Spotify on a PC is the way it guides you to new music and links with Facebook etc. It's a pity the normal Spotify can't be used and just use the sonus o listen to what's being played.
Spotify was a major factor in my decision to purchase Sonos. I already have their premium account. I use it on my PC, iPad and iPhone.
The functionality does vary between the different uses, but they basically all seem to use the Spotify interface.
The Sonos Control varies depending on what you are controlling it with. None are actually as good as the Spotify when used on iPad or a PC. The Sonos conroller on iPhone is awkward and not particularly user friendly. iPad and desk top are far better as it's easier to navigate between what's playing and browsing for more music.
what really is missing ,especially if you use to using Spotify on a PC is the way it guides you to new music and links with Facebook etc. It's a pity the normal Spotify can't be used and just use the sonus o listen to what's being played.
Userlevel 7
+17
I have multiple IOS devices and have tried Spotify Connect with one device plugged into Sonos and the other acting as the controller and, whilst this works OK, there is one glaring omission and that is the VOLUME CONTROL which is totally lacking. This makes it pretty much useless for me.
However, having all but given up hope, I found another solution named 'SpotQueue' (search it on the App Store). There are 2 apps - one the media player (SpotQueue) and the other the remote (SpotQueue Remote). Install them both add your login details into SpotQueue and it syncs your playlists, artists and albums from Spotify. These can be added into a music queue (same like Sonos) or alternatively used to start Radio stations exactly like they are in Spotify. Most importantly, the 'remote' device (which exactly replicates the 'media' device) can adjust the volume which is fed into Sonos.
The app is by no means perfect - for example whatever is being played on the Radio can be added to a playlist but you cannot browse the artist or album without having to search for it first. Also 'Top Tracks' are missing from the Artist plus some other bits and bobs.
This app differs from 'Sponos' on Android which, although connects directly to Sonos network, does not have any Spotify integration in terms of adding to playlists and browsing / playing from your spotify library. You do however need 2 IOS devices and a Sonos device with a line-in !
It makes me wonder if all this can be achieved with a 3rd party app, why Sonos cant do better in their own app. You dont need the Spotify app installed to use it and is not endorsed by Spotify so must use the already available API/plugins. The blurb on Itunes says 'This product uses SPOTIFY CORE', whatever that is ! Seems like Sonos are missing a trick.
However, having all but given up hope, I found another solution named 'SpotQueue' (search it on the App Store). There are 2 apps - one the media player (SpotQueue) and the other the remote (SpotQueue Remote). Install them both add your login details into SpotQueue and it syncs your playlists, artists and albums from Spotify. These can be added into a music queue (same like Sonos) or alternatively used to start Radio stations exactly like they are in Spotify. Most importantly, the 'remote' device (which exactly replicates the 'media' device) can adjust the volume which is fed into Sonos.
The app is by no means perfect - for example whatever is being played on the Radio can be added to a playlist but you cannot browse the artist or album without having to search for it first. Also 'Top Tracks' are missing from the Artist plus some other bits and bobs.
This app differs from 'Sponos' on Android which, although connects directly to Sonos network, does not have any Spotify integration in terms of adding to playlists and browsing / playing from your spotify library. You do however need 2 IOS devices and a Sonos device with a line-in !
It makes me wonder if all this can be achieved with a 3rd party app, why Sonos cant do better in their own app. You dont need the Spotify app installed to use it and is not endorsed by Spotify so must use the already available API/plugins. The blurb on Itunes says 'This product uses SPOTIFY CORE', whatever that is ! Seems like Sonos are missing a trick.
All these workarounds really are a crappy experience. It is amazing how bad Spotify is on Sonos though vs. the actual application. I constantly have trouble seeing new albums and seeing new playlists in playlist folders on Sonos. It is becoming a huge pain.
I'm probably going to end up switching to Beats Music because it isn't Sonos' fault really - it is Spotify's buggy API. Beats, despite its name and headphones, is a very solid service all-around.
I'm probably going to end up switching to Beats Music because it isn't Sonos' fault really - it is Spotify's buggy API. Beats, despite its name and headphones, is a very solid service all-around.
Userlevel 2
Actually I do think that Spotify is loosing ground vs other streaming platforms. They were one of the first in EU to offer this but I do see that for example Deezer despite not launched yet in the US (scheduled for this year 2014) they are readily available already in 222 countries. The available songs are also higher than Spotify and the launch in US will surely push them even higher in the ranking and song choices.
So Spotify might still be strong in Europe however I think we should look at others that do offer more today already.
So Spotify might still be strong in Europe however I think we should look at others that do offer more today already.
You're quoting a post of mine from 6 months ago. In Internet time that's a eon and things have moved on, both in quantity and quality of streaming possibilities.
I really don't understand now why Sonos won't support Spotify Connect (unless it is hardware issue and I really don't think it is) because of the newly announced integration with the Google Music app. It bypasses the Sonos queue and "goes against" how Sonos works.
I just have to hope that Sonos is working with Spotify on a different solution other than Connect to make the experience better because too much is missing now.
I just have to hope that Sonos is working with Spotify on a different solution other than Connect to make the experience better because too much is missing now.
Userlevel 7
+17
I just have to hope that Sonos is working with Spotify on a different solution other than Connect to make the experience better because too much is missing now.
me too. Ive tried all the other music services available to me (UK) which are also compatible with sonos. all fall short in some way or other compared to spotify so Id really like to stick with it but the sonos integration sucks. If spotify would add 'Play on Sonos' to the existing 'connect' function that would be the icing on the cake.
Userlevel 7
+17
I just came across this via a post on the 'Sonos Fans' page on google+. Fon have launched a streaming music player with Spotify being the initially provider.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fon/gramofon-modern-cloud-jukebox
in the FAQ it says "Do I need to download an app to be able to play music on the Gramofon?
No. Gramofon works with the music apps you love most. It is hassle free...."
meaning that Spotify is sending directly to the Gramofon from its own app. Again, Sonos are missing a trick here.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fon/gramofon-modern-cloud-jukebox
in the FAQ it says "Do I need to download an app to be able to play music on the Gramofon?
No. Gramofon works with the music apps you love most. It is hassle free...."
meaning that Spotify is sending directly to the Gramofon from its own app. Again, Sonos are missing a trick here.
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