Spotify today announced Spotify Connect, which will be a series of hardware from well-known hardware to seamlessly integrate spotify onto devices where the control is from the regular Spotify application on your phone or similar.
Streaming is still done directly through internet, so the phone isn't in charge of it, just controls it.
I really do hope that Sonos will follow this approach as well, I believe there are a lot more like me that primarily uses Sonos for Spotify, and being able to use the same app as always would be awesome.
Seems like there is already a feature request over at ask.sonos.com https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_the_controller
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Userlevel 2
I just quit my spotify subscription a couple of days ago, so am not worried about this.
I might just be lucky to live in Denmark, but my internet provider also has a streaming service, as do most here. And it has full integration to Sonos! Have been waiting for ages for the spotify radio to be available for sonos, but since that it was already available with yousee it was bye bye spotify!
Not sure if all countries internet providers provide streaming like they do here, but if they do I'd suggest that sonos focus on these instead of worrying about spotify.
I might just be lucky to live in Denmark, but my internet provider also has a streaming service, as do most here. And it has full integration to Sonos! Have been waiting for ages for the spotify radio to be available for sonos, but since that it was already available with yousee it was bye bye spotify!
Not sure if all countries internet providers provide streaming like they do here, but if they do I'd suggest that sonos focus on these instead of worrying about spotify.
Userlevel 2
To be honest, if i wasn't already a Sonos owner i would no longer buy Sonos gear due to these developements. The one thing that Sonos isn't very good at is creating a decent user interface, the rest i have no complaints about. Any company can stream music, but in today's market the added functions / apps / radiostations just make the difference. And Sonos can't seem to integrate these, at least not in a user friendly way.
Due to the absence of radio i also ended my Spotify account and switched to Deezer. The integration of Deezer is just slightly better, so it annoys the hell out of me that i can't use all the nice features Deezer has to offeron my Sonos system. Lately i see myself more often picking up a decent pair of headphones in stead of my Sonos system to listen some music, simply to use these features from the deezer web app.
Sonos really needs to convince users that they are able to integrate music services (web 2.0 style) in the near future. If not i think Sonos is going to lose this battle, at least for me.
Due to the absence of radio i also ended my Spotify account and switched to Deezer. The integration of Deezer is just slightly better, so it annoys the hell out of me that i can't use all the nice features Deezer has to offeron my Sonos system. Lately i see myself more often picking up a decent pair of headphones in stead of my Sonos system to listen some music, simply to use these features from the deezer web app.
Sonos really needs to convince users that they are able to integrate music services (web 2.0 style) in the near future. If not i think Sonos is going to lose this battle, at least for me.
Userlevel 2
Due to the absence of radio i also ended my Spotify account and switched to Deezer. The integration of Deezer is just slightly better, so it annoys the hell out of me that i can't use all the nice features Deezer has to offeron my Sonos system. Lately i see myself more often picking up a decent pair of headphones in stead of my Sonos system to listen some music, simply to use these features from the deezer web app.
Sonos really needs to convince users that they are able to integrate music services (web 2.0 style) in the near future. If not i think Sonos is going to lose this battle, at least for me.
I mostly agree with this. In fact, after years of evangelizing Sonos to anyone who would listen I would now advise them to wait and see how Spotify connect shakes out. I can use the much superior app for Spotify and others through AirPlay but that is spotty and inconsistent. If Sonos would implement Spotify Connect, they would have something much better than these standalone speakers.
If they can't or won't, they should hope Spotify Connect doesn't take off like it seems it should.
Userlevel 2
Interesting. As a very recent owner (last weekend I purchased my first Connect and Bridge) Spotify, did not feature at all in my decision making process, having 10k songs in FLAC on a Synology NAS and a desire to simultaneously stream to multiple rooms, ruling out most other solutions.
That said, a weekend of teh Spotify trial has opened my mind...wow. And led to the inevitable question as to how I could get Spotify app functionality through Sonos app...and then led me to this thread to be disappointed! Even after a weekend, life without Sonos+Spotify would not be good.
So, I'm not sure I agree with you on this, as I think Spotify is just one aspect of a very good product.
Am I right in saying though that it is probably the case that Spotify would continue to be offered in the Sonos app, just that Spotify Connect/Radio etc would not integrate with Sonos? i.e we will retain what we have but no more?
Userlevel 2
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I have not tried spotify since its not available here in Canada but everything I gave read comparison wise, indicate RDIO blows spotify and and ALL the others away when it comes to the interface features and usability. And, the actual app itself has many more fearures than going thru the Sonos app. Many on the RDIO help site are continuously stating how they switched over from spotify because of the first rate interface and features. Not sure about the bitrate comparison or size of songs catalogue but most claim that cannot tell a difference.
As for the buffering mentioned, I haven't experienced this. Maybe that was a temporary bug in the app which gas been fixed as they do continuously update the app almost monthly.
As for the buffering mentioned, I haven't experienced this. Maybe that was a temporary bug in the app which gas been fixed as they do continuously update the app almost monthly.
thedarkone,
First post! Welcome to the forums.
SONOS integration is a cooperative effort between the services and SONOS. As far as we know, SONOS does charge or receive any fees for the integration. Early on, SONOS was hand coding each service, but with dozens of potential services this effort would ultimately bury SONOS in details. SONOS turned this around and now offers a free API (Application Programing Interface) to services. Any service supporting this API can be included in SONOS in a blink.
If the music services choose not to support a feature of the SONOS API or withdraw support completely, SONOS does not have any leverage. The service would make the decision based on its business model.
Also, there is another agent -- the copyright holder. Each track is separately licensed for play in specific geographic areas, and for play on each device. Things can become strange because some tracks are authorized for play on radio like services where the listener cannot call up a given track, but the tracks are not authorized for track by track play. This means, for example, that one can listen to occasional Beatles tracks on a rock radio service, but the listener cannot call up a particular track. Whole artist libraries can appear or disappear overnight. Or, a given album might include eleven tracks, but only ten are licensed for online play.
For me, the services are more or less the interchangeable. If one service becomes a problem, I'll fix that problem at the end of the current billing cycle.
Bottom line: as users we can vote with our credit cards, but we don't have any real control. I don't recommend purchasing SONOS or any other player predicated on the availability of a particular service or feature.
First post! Welcome to the forums.
SONOS integration is a cooperative effort between the services and SONOS. As far as we know, SONOS does charge or receive any fees for the integration. Early on, SONOS was hand coding each service, but with dozens of potential services this effort would ultimately bury SONOS in details. SONOS turned this around and now offers a free API (Application Programing Interface) to services. Any service supporting this API can be included in SONOS in a blink.
If the music services choose not to support a feature of the SONOS API or withdraw support completely, SONOS does not have any leverage. The service would make the decision based on its business model.
Also, there is another agent -- the copyright holder. Each track is separately licensed for play in specific geographic areas, and for play on each device. Things can become strange because some tracks are authorized for play on radio like services where the listener cannot call up a given track, but the tracks are not authorized for track by track play. This means, for example, that one can listen to occasional Beatles tracks on a rock radio service, but the listener cannot call up a particular track. Whole artist libraries can appear or disappear overnight. Or, a given album might include eleven tracks, but only ten are licensed for online play.
For me, the services are more or less the interchangeable. If one service becomes a problem, I'll fix that problem at the end of the current billing cycle.
Bottom line: as users we can vote with our credit cards, but we don't have any real control. I don't recommend purchasing SONOS or any other player predicated on the availability of a particular service or feature.
Userlevel 2
I wish sonos was "source agnostic" like the excellent Tomahawk player (tomahawk-player.org/). That way when you search for music or build playlists sonos would search your local music library and whatever other sources of music you have (Spotify for example) seamlessly without the user having to jump between sources and search each one. Then it would not matter as much if you lose a source (like spotify), you can jump to another one without all your playlist going to hell.
Too bad it requires a conceptual change, it will never happen...
Too bad it requires a conceptual change, it will never happen...
Userlevel 2
It's somewhat interesting to me that I have been reading these forums for what must be almost 10 years now (I lost my first Sonos system in a divorce 7 years ago so it must be pushing that long...) and this is the first topic that has gotten me to actually post.
I've recently become quite a fan of Spotify. I am also Canadian and never bothered to figure out how to get it here. I'd try Rdio from time to time and was completely underwhelmed. I can assure you to some users the services are NOT interchangeable. I used to read the same thing about Rdio being maybe better. For me, the services aren't even close -- but others may have different needs.
Today is the first time I wonder how Sonos will fit into my future needs. Sonos is one place I listen to music. The car is another huge one for me. And the office at work. For me, Sonos is competing not just as a way to listen to music at home, but as a way to integrate into my overall music listening experience.
Spotify seems to be slowly winning this battle. It is getting full-on app access in many new cars. In fact, this will be a critical factor for me when I next buy a new car in a couple years. None of the other services are having the same kind of success.
It's easy to dismiss this threat and say, I'll just switch to Rdio. For some of you, that will work. But I suspect the number of people loyal to their services is MUCH higher than the number loyal to Sonos. And Spotify seems to be winning this battle today.
So I guess in the end, I hope they are able to do something with Spotify Connect. It would make me very happy. If they don't, it would be time for me to look at some new hardware. Cheaper than a new car!
The one thing that gives me great confidence is over the years I have found most of Sonos decisions to be quite forward thinking and proven mostly right in the long run. I am sure they recognize the changing environment they are working in, and I suspect they will find a way to give us access to the native apps of some services. (Hopefully Spotify)
I've recently become quite a fan of Spotify. I am also Canadian and never bothered to figure out how to get it here. I'd try Rdio from time to time and was completely underwhelmed. I can assure you to some users the services are NOT interchangeable. I used to read the same thing about Rdio being maybe better. For me, the services aren't even close -- but others may have different needs.
Today is the first time I wonder how Sonos will fit into my future needs. Sonos is one place I listen to music. The car is another huge one for me. And the office at work. For me, Sonos is competing not just as a way to listen to music at home, but as a way to integrate into my overall music listening experience.
Spotify seems to be slowly winning this battle. It is getting full-on app access in many new cars. In fact, this will be a critical factor for me when I next buy a new car in a couple years. None of the other services are having the same kind of success.
It's easy to dismiss this threat and say, I'll just switch to Rdio. For some of you, that will work. But I suspect the number of people loyal to their services is MUCH higher than the number loyal to Sonos. And Spotify seems to be winning this battle today.
So I guess in the end, I hope they are able to do something with Spotify Connect. It would make me very happy. If they don't, it would be time for me to look at some new hardware. Cheaper than a new car!
The one thing that gives me great confidence is over the years I have found most of Sonos decisions to be quite forward thinking and proven mostly right in the long run. I am sure they recognize the changing environment they are working in, and I suspect they will find a way to give us access to the native apps of some services. (Hopefully Spotify)
Userlevel 7
+17
I couldnt agree more.
In the UK we dont have the range of music services elsewhere. I tried Rdio as an alternative and, although the Sonos experience was better from a feature point of view, the mobile app was awful. I use the mobile app 2 hours per day in my car and Rdio's app crashes, goes silent and takes ages to buffer. I have none of these issues on the Spotify app so I have to stick with them.
Its funny how I build/extend my playlists in the car using Spotify Radio but at home on Sonos I only listen to albums and playlists I already know - I never explore new music via Sonos because the app just isnt up to it and too cumbersome.
Like you, I feel that the Sonos hardware is fantastic but the software side of it is falling behind. The trend is more towards subscription based music streaming and less about music ownership with gigabits worth of CDs stored somewhere. Unless the Sonos app keeps up with the increasing features provided by the native music service apps I fear that it will get left behind.
Same like the Playbar/DTS issue. Before long there will be TVs and film services that broadcast in DTS (remember that direct Blueray connection to a Playbar isnt a supported configuration - now you know why). Sonos decided not to bother incorporating DTS into the playbar and remain almost silent on the subject several months later - what were they thinking ?!
In the UK we dont have the range of music services elsewhere. I tried Rdio as an alternative and, although the Sonos experience was better from a feature point of view, the mobile app was awful. I use the mobile app 2 hours per day in my car and Rdio's app crashes, goes silent and takes ages to buffer. I have none of these issues on the Spotify app so I have to stick with them.
Its funny how I build/extend my playlists in the car using Spotify Radio but at home on Sonos I only listen to albums and playlists I already know - I never explore new music via Sonos because the app just isnt up to it and too cumbersome.
Like you, I feel that the Sonos hardware is fantastic but the software side of it is falling behind. The trend is more towards subscription based music streaming and less about music ownership with gigabits worth of CDs stored somewhere. Unless the Sonos app keeps up with the increasing features provided by the native music service apps I fear that it will get left behind.
Same like the Playbar/DTS issue. Before long there will be TVs and film services that broadcast in DTS (remember that direct Blueray connection to a Playbar isnt a supported configuration - now you know why). Sonos decided not to bother incorporating DTS into the playbar and remain almost silent on the subject several months later - what were they thinking ?!
Userlevel 2
Its funny how I build/extend my playlists in the car using Spotify Radio but at home on Sonos I only listen to albums and playlists I already know - I never explore new music via Sonos because the app just isnt up to it and too cumbersome.
Like you, I feel that the Sonos hardware is fantastic but the software side of it is falling behind. The trend is more towards subscription based music streaming and less about music ownership with gigabits worth of CDs stored somewhere. Unless the Sonos app keeps up with the increasing features provided by the native music service apps I fear that it will get left behind.
?!
There may be an obvious (to everyone but me) reason that this is a bad idea (fidelity?), but... Wouldn't it make sense for Sonos to add a bluetooth connection - everyone has their favorite MOG, Spotify, pandora apps on their iphones/androids. Let the phone manufacturers deal with the streaming companies (more accurately, the reverse I guess) and let the phone be the source. Would the user experience be that much worse? I think the native phone apps are better than the Sonos integration. Other than not being able to mix sources into a Sonos playlist and having to use a Sonos app (volume/zones) and Streaming app, I don't see a big downside. My friends all seem pretty happy with their bluetooth speakers these days...
dahlm,
Bluetooth is a relatively short range solution. I don't think that it would roam very well.
Also, I prefer not having my music tied to a phone or computer. For me, that is the beauty of SONOS.
Bluetooth is a relatively short range solution. I don't think that it would roam very well.
Also, I prefer not having my music tied to a phone or computer. For me, that is the beauty of SONOS.
That's what I was using before Sonos. No, the Sonos approach is FAR superior.
Bluetooth range is marginal, at best. "Up to 30 feet" often meant 10 feet on a good day, and the cat walking between my tablet and the BT receiver would cause severe dropouts.
BT compresses the signal, and its bandwidth is sub-optimal, resulting in lower fidelity.
The streaming music competed for WiFi bandwidth with my browser, the kid's online gaming, etc, causing frequent dropouts. Sonos sets up its own WiFi mesh, doesn't rob bandwith.
I thought the recent addition of the ability to play music files directly from my tablet was pretty cool, but frankly, I never use it. With the availability of nearly unlimited, on demand, high quality tracks very cheaply from MOG, ripping tracks from CDs just doesn't make sense to me anymore. But then I'm pretty lazy. 🙂
Userlevel 6
+11
I don't get why people knock the UI, it works, it's simple! I moved from Squeezebox last month, the other half is finding Sonos much easier to use. Personally, I think Sonos does it very well (although I wish it would do Google Music :))
Userlevel 2
And Spotify Connect. 😉
A general solution would be for SONOS to include a streaming interface in their controller software, allowing us to use access applications (Deezer, Spotify, Songza, whatever....) that pass their music to SONOS via WiFi or Ethernet, it shouldn't matter which physical unit. We could use superior native service applications, and SONOS wouldn't get abandoned by the services' changing priorities. I haven't had Deezer service through SONOS for two days now, and I suspect the problem has nothing to do with SONOS. But does Deezer really care? My access through iOS and OSX works fine, and so far Deezer is still getting my monthly fee for their "Premium" service.
I've tried streaming Deezer from my Mac to SONOS Connect through Apple Express, but the SQ was terrible.
I've tried streaming Deezer from my Mac to SONOS Connect through Apple Express, but the SQ was terrible.
I've tried streaming Deezer from my Mac to SONOS Connect through Apple Express, but the SQ was terrible.
If you read the thread you will realize that Spotify has effectively eliminated this option for Sonos by requiring a Spotify chip (ala Airplay) in hardware licensed for Spotify Connect.
You are right, I skipped several pages, sorry, after all this IS a Spotify thread...
Hope SONOS isn't getting marginalized and obsolete, I have invested too much, and like it...
They haven't totally ruled it out.
https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/allow_sonos_to_monitor_what_computer_is_streaming
Currently marked as 'under consideration'.
I have actually never read anything about having to keep it in a chip? There have been claims that some of the current line-up from some manufacturers (Philips, I think) would perhaps get support through a firmware upgrade, which indicate that there is room for a software implementation.
We recently reported on Spotify’s new Connect service, which allows users to seamlessly transfer actively playing Spotify playlists to other devices such as A/V receivers and wireless speaker systems via WiFi. Unfortunately, any excitement over auditioning the new service was cut short for many because a necessary piece of hardware (a particular microchip) must be present in said device to work with the new streaming music feature.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/want-a-spotify-connect-compatible-receiver-you-may-already-have-one/
For now, the initial list of device makers are Argon, Bang & Olufsen, Denon, Hama, Marantz, Philips, Pioneer, Revo, Teufel and Yamaha, with more brands getting added before the end of the year — basically hardware makers that have built in chips made by companies that have cut deals with Spotify to embed its technology.
http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/02/spotify-makes-its-biggest-hardware-play-yet-with-spotify-connect-synching-music-at-home-and-beyond/
I have fairly reliable sources telling me that there is no chip requirements, however they have a chip manufacturer as partner (I assume that is to provide pre-programmed implementations).
So technically, there wouldn't be a problem to implement this on Sonos. Exposing each group as a Spotify remote speaker would probably be a decent approach.
So technically, there wouldn't be a problem to implement this on Sonos. Exposing each group as a Spotify remote speaker would probably be a decent approach.
So technically, there wouldn't be a problem to implement this on Sonos. Exposing each group as a Spotify remote speaker would probably be a decent approach.
You may indeed have your sources, but I've not seen one article that suggests anything about a software implementation sans the chip. I've seen a lot about some recent hardware models being "Spotify ready", but that by no means rules out the requirement for a chip. Indeed, the fact that they point to only recent models tells me they have the chip added, whereas older models do not.
Either way, anecdotal, anonymous sources do not trump written articles, and there are dozens of those which state unequivocably that a chip is needed.
Userlevel 2
Sadly it's not that simple. Just try to change the EQ settings, this takes you to loads of steps. Ad a sub to your set and you need to go through 2 seperate menus to change them both. Accidently push the wrong button in the sub menu and you have to set the sub up all over again, as there is no back option from that menu.
To me the UI feels totaly out dated, kind of like an old AS400 based system, which still might work for some if you just play a single album or radio station. But not for me, and with players like Spotify, Samsung Shape M7 and whatever there is to come there now are alternatives i didn't had few years ago.
Be careful before you nominate something as a Sonos killer. I've seen a dozen or so "Sonos killers" coronated in the last 5 years, and every one of them has failed miserably.
And by the way, the CNET article stated the Smasung UI was not as polished as the Sonos.
Userlevel 2
I may have missed this in the 10 pages so far, as I have been reading this on and off since the start of the thread.
What about mobile devices ? e.g. Phones & Tablets. I cannot see apple adding a Spotify chip to hardware, yet a lot of people use these very devices to listen to their Spotify play lists.
I cannot see Spotify killing off this revenue stream. It would be a suicide for them, especially in the US.
If Spotify continue to allow mobile devices to stream their music, then surely SONOS would be able to use that functionality at the very least
What about mobile devices ? e.g. Phones & Tablets. I cannot see apple adding a Spotify chip to hardware, yet a lot of people use these very devices to listen to their Spotify play lists.
I cannot see Spotify killing off this revenue stream. It would be a suicide for them, especially in the US.
If Spotify continue to allow mobile devices to stream their music, then surely SONOS would be able to use that functionality at the very least
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