Spotify today announced Spotify Connect, which will be a series of hardware from well-known hardware to seamlessly integrate spotify onto devices where the control is from the regular Spotify application on your phone or similar.
Streaming is still done directly through internet, so the phone isn't in charge of it, just controls it.
I really do hope that Sonos will follow this approach as well, I believe there are a lot more like me that primarily uses Sonos for Spotify, and being able to use the same app as always would be awesome.
Seems like there is already a feature request over at ask.sonos.com https://ask.sonos.com/sonos/topics/support_spotify_connect_to_allow_users_to_use_the_spotify_app_as_the_controller
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Of note as well: It has been documented that Rdio applies some sort of processing to the music too, so it isn't all about bitrate. I've had Rdio before (before I had Sonos) and while Rdio's bitrate seemed high enough, the music definitely sounded different compared to my local file.
There were also a few albums that noticeably sounded worse (older albums).
It does stink since I enjoy the UI and functionality of the service, but they kill it with SQ.
Lets just all hope that Spotify and Sonos work it out.
There were also a few albums that noticeably sounded worse (older albums).
It does stink since I enjoy the UI and functionality of the service, but they kill it with SQ.
Lets just all hope that Spotify and Sonos work it out.
Userlevel 7
+17
Im just using this to import all my playlists from Spotify to Rdio:
http://resp.in/
shame there is no free premium trial so I can test the Sonos integration.
http://resp.in/
shame there is no free premium trial so I can test the Sonos integration.
http://resp.in/
shame there is no free premium trial so I can test the Sonos integration.
There isn't? I thought they at least gave a 14 day trial.
Actually, try downloading the mobile app if you an Android or iOS device and I think it should give you 7 day trial without needing to put a credit card in.
Userlevel 7
+17
good thinking - installed app, offered 14 day free trial, now added as service on Sonos :-)
funny I couldnt find that through their website.
funny I couldnt find that through their website.
funny I couldnt find that through their website.
Excellent. Let me know what you think - I've never used it on Sonos. And I'm curious to what you think of how it sounds as well. I've also always wondered if it streams gapless on Sonos because I know it doesn't on web/desktop/mobile.
Userlevel 7
+17
well for starters it has 'Artist Radio' which will never happen now with Spotify
What would be great is if Rdio or Rhapsody or another service with similar library to Spotify could read and transfer my Spotify playlists over. Then I wouldn't worry as much about it.
UPDATE: Just saw nicka99's link. Nice to know there might be another option yet for my playlists.
UPDATE: Just saw nicka99's link. Nice to know there might be another option yet for my playlists.
Userlevel 7
+17
its worked a treat so far. Rdio doesnt have a 'star track' feature so I just imported my 'Starred tracks' playlist for that purpose.
Also the ability to match your entire Itunes/windows music library as a 'collection' is genius. Always bothered me with Spotify that everything had to be a playlist.
They're coming thick and fast, this time Qualcomm in partnership with Rhapsody.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/123359-qualcomm-allplay-another-sonos-challenger-enters-the-game
Too true. Mine sounds great.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/123359-qualcomm-allplay-another-sonos-challenger-enters-the-game
For now Sonos seems safe, however for how long depends on how quick manufacturers take the new technology on board.
Too true. Mine sounds great.
I have been lurking for some time and really enjoy reading the user comments of this forum. I have 4 Play 5s and 2 Connects in my environment and love everything about my Sonos setup.
I apologize if this is not in the right section but after the recent news by Spotify and Qualcom to compete with Sonos, I have a question that I hope can benefit Sonos itself. Mainly, what is the roadmap going forward? I'm not talking about the next product, but rather what would we, the users, like to see going forward for the ecosystem as a whole? I have benefited so much from reading these posts and am amazed at how clever and creative a lot of you are that I think it would be good for Sonos to hear how we might map it out.
It is clear that there are a lot of comanies, with a lot of cash interested in the space. Like Apple experienced, they will eventually find a way to copy the major benefits of Sonos and likely at much lower price points.
For me, video is not that important unless it allows me to stream across any screen in any location. Streaming across screens in my home is a nice start but it is pretty much available through my cable system and also through most satelites and slingbox. Stand alone apps will likely make this even better in the future.
Music itself has much more importance for me but apart from being able to listen offsite, which is available as well, I don't know how Sonos improves the current product other than building a portable unit and improving the interface. My house is not big enough to warrant too many more players.
The car is something I would love but since I can stream music services already, I am interested in how Sonos could improve this.
So far I see the living room video push as being the most significant for Sonos but apart from adding more speakers to your movie watching experience, I don't see how this is game changing.
I guess what I'm really interested in is whether Sonos will just be a box maker that will ultimately be bettered at some point, or will they evolve into something totally different. If they do evolve, how will this look? How does Sonos become a game changer?
My guess is that the competition will ultimately beome too much and they will sell to one of the big boys. We will suffer in return.
I apologize if this is not in the right section but after the recent news by Spotify and Qualcom to compete with Sonos, I have a question that I hope can benefit Sonos itself. Mainly, what is the roadmap going forward? I'm not talking about the next product, but rather what would we, the users, like to see going forward for the ecosystem as a whole? I have benefited so much from reading these posts and am amazed at how clever and creative a lot of you are that I think it would be good for Sonos to hear how we might map it out.
It is clear that there are a lot of comanies, with a lot of cash interested in the space. Like Apple experienced, they will eventually find a way to copy the major benefits of Sonos and likely at much lower price points.
For me, video is not that important unless it allows me to stream across any screen in any location. Streaming across screens in my home is a nice start but it is pretty much available through my cable system and also through most satelites and slingbox. Stand alone apps will likely make this even better in the future.
Music itself has much more importance for me but apart from being able to listen offsite, which is available as well, I don't know how Sonos improves the current product other than building a portable unit and improving the interface. My house is not big enough to warrant too many more players.
The car is something I would love but since I can stream music services already, I am interested in how Sonos could improve this.
So far I see the living room video push as being the most significant for Sonos but apart from adding more speakers to your movie watching experience, I don't see how this is game changing.
I guess what I'm really interested in is whether Sonos will just be a box maker that will ultimately be bettered at some point, or will they evolve into something totally different. If they do evolve, how will this look? How does Sonos become a game changer?
My guess is that the competition will ultimately beome too much and they will sell to one of the big boys. We will suffer in return.
kilbey41,
Welcome to the forum. Sonos does not publish a roadmap. That is their stated policy, so we are left to speculate. If we read between the lines, given the brief "Planned" status of Spotify Radio, which quickly changed back to "Under Consideration" and then to "Unplanned" after yesterday's announcement, I think we can rule out any elaborate Spotify functionality coming soon.
As to my preference for a roadmap, I use Sonos in the following ways:
SiriusXM - 35%
Local Library - 35%
MOG - 15%
Internet Radio - 10%
All Others - 5%
I personally would love the new SiriusXM On-Demand functions; give me that and I would be a pig in slop. But I realize SiriusXM users are probably not a large percentage of Sonos users (although they should advertise more on SiriusXM. It's what got me to try Sonos in the first place!!! 😉 ). So seeing that my personal choices are basically music, music, music and talk shows, I've no need for video, and hope Sonos wastes no valuable resources on it. Instead, I hope they continue to be the most reliable, rock solid, least expensive multi-room whole house audio solution.
As to the business plan, I feel that with the release of the Play:3 they have gotten the market penetration they wanted (and the riches that come with it), but they may have gone too far in the "we support service XYZ!!!" direction and have stopped emphasizing their real strength - That they are a much cheaper alternative to any other multi-room whole house system out there. This emphasis on service provider support also has a big gotcha; it relies on the cooperation of the service providers. Will the fact that the services are now getting a little hungry for their own slice of the pie spell Sonos' demise? I guess we will find out.
Of course this is all just my opinion. YMMV.
Welcome to the forum. Sonos does not publish a roadmap. That is their stated policy, so we are left to speculate. If we read between the lines, given the brief "Planned" status of Spotify Radio, which quickly changed back to "Under Consideration" and then to "Unplanned" after yesterday's announcement, I think we can rule out any elaborate Spotify functionality coming soon.
As to my preference for a roadmap, I use Sonos in the following ways:
SiriusXM - 35%
Local Library - 35%
MOG - 15%
Internet Radio - 10%
All Others - 5%
I personally would love the new SiriusXM On-Demand functions; give me that and I would be a pig in slop. But I realize SiriusXM users are probably not a large percentage of Sonos users (although they should advertise more on SiriusXM. It's what got me to try Sonos in the first place!!! 😉 ). So seeing that my personal choices are basically music, music, music and talk shows, I've no need for video, and hope Sonos wastes no valuable resources on it. Instead, I hope they continue to be the most reliable, rock solid, least expensive multi-room whole house audio solution.
As to the business plan, I feel that with the release of the Play:3 they have gotten the market penetration they wanted (and the riches that come with it), but they may have gone too far in the "we support service XYZ!!!" direction and have stopped emphasizing their real strength - That they are a much cheaper alternative to any other multi-room whole house system out there. This emphasis on service provider support also has a big gotcha; it relies on the cooperation of the service providers. Will the fact that the services are now getting a little hungry for their own slice of the pie spell Sonos' demise? I guess we will find out.
Of course this is all just my opinion. YMMV.
Userlevel 1
As for the other suggestions, Sonos execs in the past have ruled out Video and Car audio as not being something they're interested in.
I would honestly be happy enough if Spotify added their upcoming "Collection" feature into the API so that Sonos can get it. I don't really care about the Discover or Follow to show up on there, I have the mobile and desktop apps for that.
Radio isn't a huge loss for me. I don't think Spotify's algorithms are very good at all and I rarely use it on mobile/desktop. If I want "Radio" I'll just use Songza or 8tracks, which are much better.
Radio isn't a huge loss for me. I don't think Spotify's algorithms are very good at all and I rarely use it on mobile/desktop. If I want "Radio" I'll just use Songza or 8tracks, which are much better.
I don't understand why so many pundits are simply waiting for SONOS to be devoured by a "big fish". If this happens, the SONOS technology will likely be buried because it is so disruptive. Really, in this market space SONOS is the gorilla and the gorilla is growing.
While I think that Qualcomm's bid is an offensive move to sell their hardware, I think that the other moves are defensive. The music services want more control of the user interface, probably with the option of adding advertisements or the opportunity to "buy now" at some point. Traditional manufacturers are trying to maintain their business model, but this is becoming more difficult because they are mostly hardware oriented and each new feature addition likely involves designing in some hardware, such as a Qualcomm or Apple chip. In my opinion this will not work well because the manufacturers' design cycles and the consumer purchase cycles are too long. Receiver purchases are done on a five to ten (and more) year cycle. Of course, a series of "dongles" could be offered to support services, but this is expensive and has not been wildly successful to date. A major driving force for current receiver purchases is the analog sundown for video connections. An interesting development would be an industry standard dongle interface, but I doubt that this can happen. We are now decades into IR technology, there is still no unifying standard, and customers suffer because of this.
Pricing? In spite of those who visualize SONOS as an expensive computer accessory, SONOS is a very aggressively priced whole home audio system. Unless someone is willing to take a big risk that they can achieve economy of scale much higher than SONOS has achieved (significantly driving down costs), I don't think that directly competing with SONOS is very attractive for established companies. As a startup, SONOS made a huge, risky bet that they could eventually achieve economy of scale to support their pricing. In my opinion only a startup can do this because the big guys are too worried about career and the next quarterly report.
I don't know exactly what features the Qualcomm chipset offers, but this could lower risk for entrants and established companies.
While I think that Qualcomm's bid is an offensive move to sell their hardware, I think that the other moves are defensive. The music services want more control of the user interface, probably with the option of adding advertisements or the opportunity to "buy now" at some point. Traditional manufacturers are trying to maintain their business model, but this is becoming more difficult because they are mostly hardware oriented and each new feature addition likely involves designing in some hardware, such as a Qualcomm or Apple chip. In my opinion this will not work well because the manufacturers' design cycles and the consumer purchase cycles are too long. Receiver purchases are done on a five to ten (and more) year cycle. Of course, a series of "dongles" could be offered to support services, but this is expensive and has not been wildly successful to date. A major driving force for current receiver purchases is the analog sundown for video connections. An interesting development would be an industry standard dongle interface, but I doubt that this can happen. We are now decades into IR technology, there is still no unifying standard, and customers suffer because of this.
Pricing? In spite of those who visualize SONOS as an expensive computer accessory, SONOS is a very aggressively priced whole home audio system. Unless someone is willing to take a big risk that they can achieve economy of scale much higher than SONOS has achieved (significantly driving down costs), I don't think that directly competing with SONOS is very attractive for established companies. As a startup, SONOS made a huge, risky bet that they could eventually achieve economy of scale to support their pricing. In my opinion only a startup can do this because the big guys are too worried about career and the next quarterly report.
I don't know exactly what features the Qualcomm chipset offers, but this could lower risk for entrants and established companies.
IMO Sonos could partially head off any threat from this sort of thing by releasing a library for the main Smartphone platforms that allowed third-party apps to easily push content to Sonos.
Of course, Spotify may not adopt it, but others will which will dilute any benefits of the Spotify platform.
Personally, I try to avoid anything which is locked into a single service ecosystem. Apple and (perhaps) Google have the branding to convince people to put all their eggs in their particular basket, but I'm not convinced Spotify do.
Cheers,
Keith
Of course, Spotify may not adopt it, but others will which will dilute any benefits of the Spotify platform.
Personally, I try to avoid anything which is locked into a single service ecosystem. Apple and (perhaps) Google have the branding to convince people to put all their eggs in their particular basket, but I'm not convinced Spotify do.
Cheers,
Keith
A standalone Line-In module has been quite a popular topic in Sound Ideas. Extending that concept to include S/PDIF input and (optionally) an inbuilt Airplay/Spotify Connect/Qualcomm chip with the stream being delivered via SonosNet would be conceivable. A bit like a Dock (RIP), and perhaps at a similar price point. Maybe it could even sport an HDMI for Google Chromecast.
I like that idea, although I am not sure I would use something like that enough to justify getting one.
Furthermore:
You could also use Spotify Connect if you hooked up an iPod Touch to a line-in on a Sonos unit.
Although, I am not sure if Spotify Connect will be able to "wake up" a sleeping iPod Touch with sleeping Spotify app. That remains to be seen.
Either way, after my initial displeasure with this, I'm really not that worried and feel 100% safe in my investment in Sonos products. You just can't beat it.
Furthermore:
You could also use Spotify Connect if you hooked up an iPod Touch to a line-in on a Sonos unit.
Although, I am not sure if Spotify Connect will be able to "wake up" a sleeping iPod Touch with sleeping Spotify app. That remains to be seen.
Either way, after my initial displeasure with this, I'm really not that worried and feel 100% safe in my investment in Sonos products. You just can't beat it.
This would be ideal, but I don't know how eager Apple/Spotify/Qualcomm are going to be to allow one license to stream to up to 32 unlicensed players. I assume their business plan is exclusive contracts with certain partners in order to drive repacement sales due to a "must have" checkmark. Allowing a single license to wipe out the (theoretical) sale of up to 32 licensed devices may not be in their plan.
Let's face it, incomparable to the full Sonos experience as they are, every press release for Airplay/Spotify Connect/Quallcomm/etc. includes commentary which mentions them as a Sonos alternative. If those companies planned to allow Sonos to incorporate their new tech on the cheap, they (and/or the fawning audio press) wouldn't be emphasizing their similarities to Sonos.
I agree with buzz that Sonos is the gorilla, and that these moves are more about defending a brand rather than aiming at Sonos' heart. However, I also feel they don't want to do Sonos any favors given Sonos' superior product, and the Spotify head of hardware partnerships' spontaneous utterance (and subsequent backtracking) is proof. Certainly there is a level of hostility towards Sonos at the global hardware partnerships level, that cannot be denied.
It's going to happen anyway if someone with a budget Apple/Spotify/Qualcomm-enabled receiver hooks it up to a Sonos Line-In. Why not at least make for easy digital (S/PDIF) transfer into Sonos multi-room. Many receivers will output S/PDIF. Sure, one can front a Playbar with an S/PDIF switch already, but it implies some constraints (the source must play on Playbar as "TV", albeit muted) ... and you need a Playbar.
Userlevel 7
+17
unfortunately my early eagerness over Rdio has come to an abrupt end :-(
I spend approx 2 hours a day commuting by car. I have an unlimited data contract on my iphone so have Spotify playing continuously via bluetooth during that time, normally with Spotify Radio so I can find new music or old music Ive not heard in a while.
Sadly the Rdio app falls well short of Spotify's when 'on the go'. Even on the lowest quality setting, songs take ages to buffer but I have no issues, even at high quality, on Spotify. I am therefore left with pauses during playback either at the end of a song or worse still during it. Secondly the bluetooth output is very unreliable - sometimes, and for no apparent reason, the sound just drops out though the song continues to play as shown on the progress bar. Switching from blutooth to iphone and its still silence. only way to get it going again is to kill the app and restart it. Obviously this is not what you want to be doing whilst trying to drive ! Again, no such issues with Spotify's Iphone app.
So despite the improved features on Sonos I cant continue with Rdio due to its poor mobile app compared to Spotify.
Any other music service suggestions in the UK or do I have to stick with Spotify and hope for the best ?
You could have a go with Deezer. It has a 15-day Premium+ free eval period.
I spend approx 2 hours a day commuting by car. I have an unlimited data contract on my iphone so have Spotify playing continuously via bluetooth during that time, normally with Spotify Radio so I can find new music or old music Ive not heard in a while.
Sadly the Rdio app falls well short of Spotify's when 'on the go'. Even on the lowest quality setting, songs take ages to buffer but I have no issues, even at high quality, on Spotify. I am therefore left with pauses during playback either at the end of a song or worse still during it. Secondly the bluetooth output is very unreliable - sometimes, and for no apparent reason, the sound just drops out though the song continues to play as shown on the progress bar. Switching from blutooth to iphone and its still silence. only way to get it going again is to kill the app and restart it. Obviously this is not what you want to be doing whilst trying to drive ! Again, no such issues with Spotify's Iphone app.
So despite the improved features on Sonos I cant continue with Rdio due to its poor mobile app compared to Spotify.
Any other music service suggestions in the UK or do I have to stick with Spotify and hope for the best ?
Sounds like you had the same experience I did a while back when I tried out Rdio for a few months (didn't have Sonos at the time). I was hoping the mobile streaming improved, but it doesn't sound like it. Spotify never buffers for me - I think their streaming tech is significantly more robust. Also, I think it helps that the Spotify mobile apps cache songs.
Honestly I would just stick with Spotify for now and see how it goes. The nice thing about these services are we pay month-to-month, so it is very easy to get out.
Userlevel 7
+17
ok, so its in Italian but here is the first commercially available implementation of Spotify Connect:
http://www.dday.it/redazione/10483/Spotify-Connect-arriva-su-Philips-Fidelio-.html
Philips announced yesterday that he was the first partner of Spotify to implement the new technology and it did not on new products but with firmware update existing range of products
I think its a real shame that what would be clearly possible in Sonos (via firmware) is not being permitted.
Although Phillips wireless speakers used to use something called 'AirStudio' - makes me wonder if Spotify bought the technology and relabelled it 'Spotify Connect' which is why they were able to make this work via a firmware update since the appropriate chip is already inside ? if so, this wouldnt help with Sonos.
http://www.dday.it/redazione/10483/Spotify-Connect-arriva-su-Philips-Fidelio-.html
Philips announced yesterday that he was the first partner of Spotify to implement the new technology and it did not on new products but with firmware update existing range of products
I think its a real shame that what would be clearly possible in Sonos (via firmware) is not being permitted.
Although Phillips wireless speakers used to use something called 'AirStudio' - makes me wonder if Spotify bought the technology and relabelled it 'Spotify Connect' which is why they were able to make this work via a firmware update since the appropriate chip is already inside ? if so, this wouldnt help with Sonos.
If Sonos get more competition in the entry level / low end of the market from Spotify this may force them to become even more competitive? Reducing prices and adding functionality.... i.e. a drop in their entry level product (play3) and maybe reducing their value priced products (i..e the Connect, which should cost less than a play3 to manufacture). Or maybe even consider moving into the music service territory to take on Spotify directly? I know they have had competition before but it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Does anyone know how many customers Sonos has? I think read that Spotify has about 30M subscribers, of which 8M are paying for the premium experience.
Does anyone know how many customers Sonos has? I think read that Spotify has about 30M subscribers, of which 8M are paying for the premium experience.
Userlevel 1
You mean reduce their profit to almost nothing (it's unlikely they're making much more than 10% now).
Or maybe even consider moving into the music service territory to take on Spotify directly?
Are you nuts? Spotify have been doing this for nearly 5 years and have yet to make a profit (lost more money in the last 12 months than the previous year and we're talking >$50M losses every year I think), and they're the most successful of these services, how do you think Sonos could ever compete with that starting from scratch? They'd have to be insane to even contemplate it.
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