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Group wifi settings - problems with streaming hi-res music

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Hello all - new to the community, and relatively new to Sonos, and I am looking for assistance. 

I have a group set-up in my living room consisting of a Playbase (connected by ethernet to a TP-Link powerline wifi adapter), a Sub (Gen 2) and two One SLs. All works perfectly with TV and streaming music Apple/Spotify etc) in standard resolution. 

I wish to stream hi-res music on this group - either Amazon HD or Quobuz - as I am impressed by the difference in audio clarity. I find that when I stream either of these services (through Sonos app), the first song plays, and then skips the last 8 seconds of the song and jumps to the next. Then, by the second or third song of the playlist, the music just comes through the Playbase (which has the ethernet connection) and the other speakers no longer play. If I skip back to the start of that particular track, then I get full surround again, but the whole problem happens again by the time of the next song.

Having read a bit on the web and in this forum, the indication is that this is due to wifi speed or settings, but I dont know what I need to change or optimise. If I check my wifi speed in the living room I get 90 Mbps download speed - which I reckon should be Ok - I also have no problem streaming Netflix HD from the same TP-Link Powerline). 

 

I have seen there are network settings to be made on the Sonos app that could help - but I am not sure what and how to change and would welcome any guidance on that. I also notice that if I group my living set-up with the Play:3 I have in my kitchen (which is older and therefore not S2 compatible) then the problem stops, but I am assuming that this is because the stream quality is reduced for all devices (??). 

If I stream music direct from either the Quobuz or Amazon Music HD apps (i.e. not through Sonos) then the experience is even worse with drops outs and skips on every song. Same if I download the songs. 

Sorry for the long, rambling post but I hope to have described the issue accurately. As said, I am no technophile and would welcome any simple guidance on things I can try to optimise my setup and enjoy the hi-res providers. 

Thanks

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Best answer by DerkleineEnglaender 21 April 2021, 19:59

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87 replies

ratty

FWIW those powerline figures look okay, although a little modest for Magic 2.

ratty

Someone should pick it up anyway but I’ll flag the post for official attention.

 

By the way, the reason the audio gets interrupted as a track is ending is that the next track is trying to download into the player buffer. The bandwidth required for a CD quality track is clearly much greater than for Apple/Spotify. For some reason this traffic burst is causing grief somewhere. Hopefully a look at the system internals may shed some light.

Smilja

You’d be better off getting in touch with German Support by phone, since the staff there have experience with Vodafone and the routers provided by them. In case you’re a native speaker, there is English speaking staff too.

https://support.sonos.com/s/contact?language=de

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
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Hmmm...doesn’t seem to have helped. Still skipping and jumping speakers 349273157

Corry P
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

We looked a bit deeper into the diagnostics and we’ve come to the conclusion that the CPU of your Playbase is maxing out and cannot keep up with playing music. It’s possible that this is due to CPU throttling (performance reducing) due to the high (not dangerous, but higher than we’d like to see) temperature inside the Playbase’s case. 

Please go into the Sonos app and remove the surrounds from the Playbase (Settings » System » Family Room » Remove Surrounds), then unplug the Playbase from power for 15 minutes or so. If the Playbase is on top of (or under?) anything that might be warming it up, please move or power off that device and test things while they’re as cold as they’re going to get.

Plug the Playbase back in and test Qobuz playback long term (an hour or so, but you can stop if you hear the issue). If the issue comes back, please submit another diagnostic and reply here with the number. Thanks.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Thanks again @Corry P . Interesting chain of thought, I will try and report back. Does this thing happen now and again? Do I therefore assume that from a data package point of view, this latest set up (with the Boost more directly under the Playbase, and Channel 1 ) has helped? The PB is on a TV shelf, with a few cm above it (TV is not sat on it directly), so I would have thought that wont be an issue as they are designed for TVs to be place on them. Then, on the shelf below, there is the Sub. I can send a pic.

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D
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

We looked a bit deeper into the diagnostics and we’ve come to the conclusion that the CPU of your Playbase is maxing out and cannot keep up with playing music. It’s possible that this is due to CPU throttling (performance reducing) due to the high (not dangerous, but higher than we’d like to see) temperature inside the Playbase’s case. 

Please go into the Sonos app and remove the surrounds from the Playbase (Settings » System » Family Room » Remove Surrounds), then unplug the Playbase from power for 15 minutes or so. If the Playbase is on top of (or under?) anything that might be warming it up, please move or power off that device and test things while they’re as cold as they’re going to get.

Plug the Playbase back in and test Qobuz playback long term (an hour or so, but you can stop if you hear the issue). If the issue comes back, please submit another diagnostic and reply here with the number. Thanks.

By the way, when you say “plug the PB back in”, do you mean add the Surrounds back in too? I guess so, so that we fully test the system.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

Does this thing happen now and again? Do I therefore assume that from a data package point of view, this latest set up (with the Boost more directly under the Playbase, and Channel 1 ) has helped?

We’re still seeing a packet error rate of about 12% (12% of the time, the Boost has to re-transmit a failed packet of data) which is not ideal, but it was enough to distract me from the CPU reports and assume that was the problem. It still is a bit of a problem, but it may be one that the system can overcome so that you don’t hear dropouts. The fact that the issue you experience is the same as when the Playbase was wired, suggests that it was the CPU back then (diagnostics support this) and not the Devolo as I originally thought.

 

The PB is on a TV shelf, with a few cm above it (TV is not sat on it directly), so I would have thought that wont be an issue as they are designed for TVs to be place on them. Then, on the shelf below, there is the Sub. I can send a pic.

The first step I would take to try and remedy the lost packets is to move the Sub away from the Playbase - I appreciate that it’s at it’s tidiest there, but it may be the cause of the lost packets. If that’s going to be awkward, please remove the Sub from the Playbase in the app and remove power - if that increases network performance, then you can think about rearranging cables.

It does seem that the Playbase is solely responsible for it’s internal temperature (39 degrees, in case you were worried).

 

By the way, when you say “plug the PB back in”, do you mean add the Surrounds back in too? I guess so, so that we fully test the system.

Not yet please. We want to test if we get the same CPU usage when the Playbase is technically doing less work due to not being linked to the surrounds. Also, should we try a factory reset (don’t yet) it’s best to not have the surrounds set up (to aid setup later).

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
ratty

 

It does seem that the Playbase is solely responsible for it’s internal temperature (39 degrees, in case you were worried).

That’s well within bounds. The unit is spec’d to operate in 40 degrees ambient. If the CPU is throttling it suggests a hardware issue.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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That’s well within bounds. The unit is spec’d to operate in 40 degrees ambient. If the CPU is throttling it suggests a hardware issue.

It’s starting to look that way, but we’d like to see what happens after a chance to cool down. A factory reset could also fix the issue if it’s not the temperature, but the CPU being maxed-out by a process (the high CPU usage could be throttling and thus less processing power, or a runaway process could be using all the normal processing power available).

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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So to summarize: I will run just the PB (with the Boost or can I go back to wired Ethernet from the powerline) with Quobuz for an hour or so (disconnecting the Sub and Surrounds). Assuming that works (which I guess it will as that was never the issue), do I send a diagnostics after that time so you can see CPU performance? Once you have confirmed that we re-add the Sub and Surrounds? 

Sub can potentially be moved but will require some negotiation with the wife - so preferred option would be to keep it where it was.

ratty

I’d better stop treading on official toes, but I don’t see how the Sub location should be a problem. Besides, the internal temperature looks well within bounds.

Unless it's a runaway process slugging the CPU, I’d start wondering about an interrupt storm ...

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interrupt storm sounds exotic? What does that mean and what resolves it?

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

It’s maxing out on the CPU usage again, as I’m sure you guessed.

At this point, all I can do is refer you to our technical support team, and I highly recommend you tell them about this thread to save yourself some time.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Reconnected the Playbase and listening to Quobuz - second song dropouts 2144520550

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Different question/approach, which may save me some hassle and will allow me to listen to hi-res: 

  • Considering Quobuz is hi-res music, and I enjoy listening to music over my Sonos more than the films, I was thinking about setting up the two Play 1s with the Sub as group. I have read the sound stage is impressive and this may prevent the skipping
  • If I understand Sonos logistics correctly, then I would set that up as a group, disconnecting the Sub from the Playbase. 
  • This would mean that when I want to watch TV, it will be with the Plyabase only right? As you cannot connect that Sub to 2 different groups? This would be a marginal loss as I find the soundfield from the PB sufficient for films.

Would that be an option to work around the issue and save me requiring the additional Boost?

Welcome your opinions @ratty @Corry P or @Smilja as contributors so far on my journey through the Sonos networks :-)

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I am speaking to tech now, and they are looking for a case number. He cannot find the CPU usage data either. Any way of helping him or putting you in touch with each other?

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

Welcome to the Sonos Community!

Sorry for the delay. I’ve looked at the diagnostics and the Playbase is reporting issues with getting the stream from the source fast enough. As the Playbase is ethernet-wired, I would put this down to the extender it’s connected to. It doesn’t explain why grouping-in the Play:3 resolves it, however.

As the others have suggested, I recommend you get in touch with our technical support team, who will be able to do some real-time troubleshooting with you.

Something easy to try first, however, would be to remove the ethernet connection to the Playbase and wire the Play:3 directly to the router instead. Put the Play:3 in charge of the group (select it first) and test. If that fixes the issue, you may want to keep the Play:3 there, have a new speaker there, or have a Boost permanently wired there instead. Having said that, I definitely recommend you get in touch with technical support before spending any money.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

Sorry, I was in a meeting. 

I don’t create cases, so you won’t have an existing case in relation to this thread - just the one you started on the 24th via chat.

I’ll add some notes to that case for you.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Interesting:

 

I set up a new „room“ (living room) as described above, pairing the Play 1s with the sub. Then streaming Quobuz at hi-res, 24 hz, and it is lossless, without skips and jumps, without having the Boost connected. Which would seem to indicate the Playbase was the blockage??

 

More interestingly, I have the Playbase now on its own (TV room), and for fun, added that room to the living room with the Sub/Play 1s, and now they are all streaming seamlessly, on a sound stage that feels as full as when the Playbase was driving it. Understand that this is probably not strictly 5.1, but for music that is less important and there is a nice balance in the room. 

Does any of this make sense? Diagnostics is 1745043439 in case it helps.

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Thanks @Corry P , impressed by the service. As an update from my side, I noticed that when leaving the 2 rooms playing over an evening (living room group with the wired Playbase and Kitchen Play:3), at some point the problem recurred and sound was only coming from the Playbase in the living room and the Play:3 in the kitchen. 

Assuming it is the connection to the extender (the Magic 2) that is the issue, how can it be resolved? I use the Magic 2 because the internet comes into our house on another floor, and I have no connection points on the floor where my Sonos set-up is. What would a Boost do and how would I connect it? Does that get connected to the Magic 2 on the floor with my set-up, or on the other floor where the router and internet source is? 

Seems strange that it is not receiving enough data, as the diagnostics for the Magic 2 shows a fairly strong data stream. 

In terms of the technical team - is that online or phone support that is best?

 

Thanks again

ratty

Let’s clear up a few points/queries. First all your system, including the Play:3, is S2 compatible.

Next, are your Ones bonded to the Playbase as surround speakers? Is the Playbase the only wired Sonos component? Have you disabled the ‘WiFi’ (SonosNet) on any of your devices?

When you group with the Play:3 which room do you start from, before adding the other(s)? The choice of the starting room affects the way the local network traffic flows.

When you speak of streaming directly to the Qobuz or Amazon apps being problematic do you do this on your phone? If so what’s the phone connected to at the time (which WiFi, which frequency band)? Please clarify the comment about having problems even with downloaded songs; they should be playing off the phone itself.

Smilja

In terms of the technical team - is that online or phone support that is best?

 

By phone in your case.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
Corry P
Userlevel 7
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I noticed that when leaving the 2 rooms playing over an evening (living room group with the wired Playbase and Kitchen Play:3), at some point the problem recurred and sound was only coming from the Playbase in the living room and the Play:3 in the kitchen.

Well, that makes a bit more sense (assuming there’s a “not” missing in that sentence, as I suspect).

Assuming it is the connection to the extender (the Magic 2) that is the issue, how can it be resolved? I use the Magic 2 because the internet comes into our house on another floor, and I have no connection points on the floor where my Sonos set-up is. What would a Boost do and how would I connect it? Does that get connected to the Magic 2 on the floor with my set-up, or on the other floor where the router and internet source is?

As with a speaker, we would prefer it if you wired a Boost directly to the router - it simplifies the connection, and reduces the number of “hops” incoming traffic makes (or at least keeps as many hops on Sonos as possible). When you wish to extend the reach of your WiFi signal, we recommend the use of a WiFi Mesh system as they back-haul on a separate connection and thus don’t half the available bandwidth. I don’t think powerline products half the bandwidth, but they are subject to external influences that other networking products aren’t. 

Seems strange that it is not receiving enough data, as the diagnostics for the Magic 2 shows a fairly strong data stream.

I can’t really comment on this - I only see Sonos performance statistics in the diagnostics, and they blame the source data path.

In terms of the technical team - is that online or phone support that is best?

I recommend a call - it’s much quicker for a troubleshooting session. Once a chat’s troubleshooting gets really involved the agent is expected to pass you on to the phone lines, so you may as well start there.

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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