UK Price Rises


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jgatie wrote:

JohnnyGUK wrote:

Fully agree with you all in the UK, Sonos what are you playing at?!! Sometimes price rises are inevitable, but what I see is a short sighted decision no doubt to increase prices on OLD technology (some comments have also picked up on this), BIG mistake!! The size of the rises is a joke and I'm sure consumers will research other brands and products more closely before purchasing. I bought into the Sonos eco system like you all and had planned to buy another Play5 and Connect:AMP to run a turntable through. Where is the innovation with Sonos like with Apple? It's too thin (update app and new Play5 in 2015, whoohoo) I would like to see a Play 1 with battery hot shoe to take anywhere (Bose have a battery powered Smart Touch speaker). The rises will hurt business I'm sure in the UK, rises are no way to attract new customers, keep loyal customers and see repeat purchases. Oh dear, own goal!



As stated above, the UK have been getting a huge price break for a few months compared to the US:

jgatie wrote:

I've done a bit of math (can't post it here because it won't get past the Spam filters). Subtracting the difference for the VAT and given the exchange rate as of this AM, the Play:5 - VAT% x exchange rate gives the same price in the UK as the US. Same for the Playbar. Even starting from the US price and adding VAT yields only a £18-20 difference, which could easily be chalked up to shipping expenses, or just plain old "nearest hundred" price rounding.



And this is not even figuring in the 3.7% import duty. So you are welcome for the price break, while we here in the states were paying what you are finally paying now!



Aren't Sonos products made in Malaysia? Why would shipping expenses to the UK from Malaysia be much different from shipping expenses to the U.S.? I doubt that Sonos is shipping its products to the U.S., then reshipping to the UK. If they are, they could certainly reduce costs by not doing so.
Toolio wrote:



Aren't Sonos products made in Malaysia? Why would shipping expenses to the UK from Malaysia be much different from shipping expenses to the U.S.? I doubt that Sonos is shipping its products to the U.S., then reshipping to the UK. If they are, they could certainly reduce costs by not doing so.



Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Regardless of the disparity (or not) in shipping costs, I'm sure the 3.7% import duty can explain most of the £18-20 difference between US/UK prices, that is if one is prone to quibble over a £18-20 difference between units costing £500 and up. :8

Personally, I chalk it up to rounding.
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jgatie wrote:

Toolio wrote:



Aren't Sonos products made in Malaysia? Why would shipping expenses to the UK from Malaysia be much different from shipping expenses to the U.S.? I doubt that Sonos is shipping its products to the U.S., then reshipping to the UK. If they are, they could certainly reduce costs by not doing so.



Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Regardless of the disparity (or not) in shipping costs, I'm sure the 3.7% import duty can explain most of the £18-20 difference between US/UK prices, that is if one is prone to quibble over a £18-20 difference between units costing £500 and up. :8

Personally, I chalk it up to rounding.



I'm not "missing" anything. You mentioned it, so I'm questioning it. If it isn't important, why bother mention it in your post? Also, my research shows a lower import duty on speakers from Malaysia into the UK.
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alberto98 wrote:

Where's Ratty & Jgatie to celebrate the price rise and say how good it is? Lol. ;)



Didn't take to long for the answer to that question to surface, lol.
Toolio wrote:



I'm not "missing" anything. You mentioned it, so I'm questioning it. If it isn't important, why bother mention it in your post? Also, my research shows a lower import duty on speakers from Malaysia into the UK.



I mentioned it as speculation. If I was wrong, so be it, you caught me. Alert the internet police!

But in reality, it has about the significance of a gnat's behind on a £18-20 price difference on items costing £500+, and complaining about it is the very definition of missing the forest for the trees. My main point about comparing prices which include VAT with prices which do not include state sales taxes still stands, regardless of the nits you choose to pick.

Toolio wrote:

Didn't take to long for the answer to that question to surface, lol.



Did I date your sister or something? At least the other complainers knew when to give up after being shown the current UK pricing is right in line with US pricing.
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jgatie wrote:

Toolio wrote:



I'm not "missing" anything. You mentioned it, so I'm questioning it. If it isn't important, why bother mention it in your post? Also, my research shows a lower import duty on speakers from Malaysia into the UK.



I mentioned it as speculation. If I was wrong, so be it, you caught me. Alert the internet police!

But in reality, it has about the significance of a gnat's behind on a £18-20 price difference on items costing £500+, and complaining about it is the very definition of missing the forest for the trees. My main point about comparing prices which includes VAT with prices which do not include state sales taxes still stands, regardless of the nits you choose to pick.

Toolio wrote:

Didn't take to long for the answer to that question to surface, lol.



Did I date your sister or something? At least the other complainers knew when to give up after being shown the current UK pricing is right in line with US pricing.



Talk about missing the forest for the trees. The issue here is a significant price increase. Nobody, no matter where they live, likes a price increase. It is quite common for people, no matter where they live, to complain about rising prices. Frankly, I doubt that the residents of the UK shopping for now-more-expensive Sonos gear care what the US pricing is. I certainly do not, because I do not, nor have I ever, lived in the US. As others have pointed out, what should be more relevant are exchange fluctuations between the ringgit and the UK pound, since the products are made in Malaysia and presumably exported to Britain. Over the past year there hasn't been much change, although there have been significant fluctuations.
And yet, the original comparisons by the most vocal complainer were using the USD/GBP exchange.

Also, the ringgit comment is incorrect, if you believe Sonos' official statement:

“We pay for everything we make in US dollars,” the California-domiciled Sonos said in a statement. “Over recent months, there has been a significant change on the US dollar to GBP exchange rate. As a result, our existing pricing has become unsustainable and, like many other companies, we have to increase prices for all products priced in GBP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/13/sonos-hikes-uk-prices-by-25-due-to-brexit

So, forgive me for working with what the most vocal commentators were stating, not to mention Sonos' official statement.
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jgatie wrote:

And yet, the original comparisons by the most vocal complainer were using the USD/GBP exchange.

Also, the ringgit comment is incorrect, if you believe Sonos' official statement:

“We pay for everything we make in US dollars,” the California-domiciled Sonos said in a statement. “Over recent months, there has been a significant change on the US dollar to GBP exchange rate. As a result, our existing pricing has become unsustainable and, like many other companies, we have to increase prices for all products priced in GBP.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/13/sonos-hikes-uk-prices-by-25-due-to-brexit

So, forgive me for working with what the most vocal commentators were stating, not to mention Sonos' official statement.



Actually I don't believe that they pay for everything in US dollars, unless they mean they pay in US dollars before buying Malaysian currency. Sonos has offices in Malaysia and produces in Malaysia; I am sure they know full well how to play the currency game. And they would almost certainly have a hedging strategy. But Sonos is a private company, so we'll never know, will we? However, they would not be astute business people if they did not take advantage of the fact that Malaysian currency has not suffered the same exchange variations as the pound, relative to the US dollar.
Toolio wrote:



Actually I don't believe that they pay for everything in US dollars, unless they mean they pay in US dollars before buying Malaysian currency. Sonos has offices in Malaysia and produces in Malaysia; I am sure they know full well how to play the currency game. And they would almost certainly have a hedging strategy. But Sonos is a private company, so we'll never know, will we? However, they would not be astute business people if they did not take advantage of the fact that Malaysian currency has not suffered the same exchange variations as the pound, relative to the US dollar.



Doesn't mean squat to the fact that my replies were directed at the folks making comparisons between US pricing and UK pricing. Are folks in the UK justified in being ticked off at such a large increase? 100% yes. Are there shenanigans going on with Sonos' statement? Who knows? Does the ringgit/USD exchange figure in? Probably.

But, is comparing the US list price vs. the UK list price an accurate comparison without figuring in VAT, considering any sales tax in the US is applied by the states at time of purchase? 100% no, and that was the only point I was making. I stand by that point. The rest matters not one whit to me, the Brits can argue about it themselves.
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I am even less inclined to believe the "we pay for everything in US dollars" line is the sole reason for the price increase now that I've done a little more research. Sonos gear may appear to be "manufactured" in Malaysia, but I am betting it is assembled there, largely from parts made in China. A look at Sonos job postings indicates the company has contract manufacturers in China. For example, this job posting, for a position in Penang, Malaysia, said: "This is a critical leadership position on the Sonos Manufacturing Operations team located in Penang and will be reporting directly to the Director of Manufacturing Operations. The materials team is responsible for overall material supply line and inventory risk management in the Sonos’ Contract Manufacturing (CM) Factories in China." And "Develop and execute the right material strategy and inventory model for Sonos business with our Contract Manufacturers in China." There's nothing wrong with that--everybody manufactures in China these days--but it does take some of the edge off the dollar-pound argument. BTW, the Chinese currency has been falling against the US dollar recently.
CreditSuisse seems to think Sonos manufactures in Taiwan. "Inventec Appliances Corporation (IAC) was founded in 2000 and is headquartered in Taipei, Taiwan. It was consolidated into Inventec Corporation in 2011 and is now a wholly- owned subsidiary. IAC designs and manufactures handheld and wireless devices such as smartphones, tablets, MP3 players, GPS navigation devices and smartphone accessories. Wireless devices include wireless speakers, SOHO routers/switches, wireless AP and smart home devices. The company's key customers currently include Xiaomi (smartphones, tablets and smart home devices), Huawei, (smartphone), Sonos (wireless speaker), Tom Tom (GPS), Nest (smart home devices) and Verifone (POS). Previously, they manufactured Apple's iPod and their Newton PDA.
Sonos: wireless Hi-Fi audio products
Sonos is a California-based electronics company selling Hi-Fi wireless audio products. The company was founded in 2002. Inventec has been its primary manufacturing partner since the company was founded.
As I said, I couldn't care less about all that. The only reason I posted what I did is if you are going to compare prices between two countries, at least make it an apples to apples comparison. If one wants to get into the economics of all that BS, feel free, but count me out. I've already wasted far more time on a cut-and-dried fact than I needed to, never mind reading that minutia. I don't care what the freaking price is in the UK, as I stated in my first post.
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jgatie wrote:

As I said, I couldn't care less about all that. The only reason I posted what I did is if you are going to compare prices between two countries, at least make it an apples to apples comparison. If one wants to get into the minutia of all that BS, feel free, but count me out. I don't care what the freaking price is in the UK, as I stated in my first post.



There are others reading this thread, who might be interested. Your continued involvement or lack of involvement in this discussion is immaterial. Feel free to not be interested, or to not care what the price is in the UK, or to be counted out. The original poster was not comparing UK and US prices. The message said: "Although the dollar rate is blamed", in reference to the fact that Sonos did just that. He did not start this discussion by comparing prices in the two countries, but by lamenting a price increase in the UK and the fact that "the products are much cheaper in some countries."
Toolio wrote:


There are others reading this thread, who might be interested. Your continued involvement or lack of involvement in this discussion is immaterial. Feel free to not be interested, or to not care what the price is in the UK, or to be counted out. The original poster was not comparing UK and US prices. The message said: "Although the dollar rate is blamed", in reference to the fact that Sonos did just that. He did not start this discussion by comparing prices in the two countries, but by lamenting a price increase in the UK and the fact that "the products are much cheaper in some countries."



My replies were to those (particularly alberto98) who were posting about the disparity between US and UK list prices. As such, they were on-topic and to the point. Up until then, I never said anything in this thread beside a humorous reply to a cheap shot attack. Why you are trying to make my posts out to be an attack on the OP, a statement on the right of others to be angry, or anything else other than to clarify an oft seen mistake due to included VAT vs. excluded state tax, I'll never know.

Go ahead, have the last word. I've spent far too much time on your BS. :8
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jgatie wrote:

Toolio wrote:


There are others reading this thread, who might be interested. Your continued involvement or lack of involvement in this discussion is immaterial. Feel free to not be interested, or to not care what the price is in the UK, or to be counted out. The original poster was not comparing UK and US prices. The message said: "Although the dollar rate is blamed", in reference to the fact that Sonos did just that. He did not start this discussion by comparing prices in the two countries, but by lamenting a price increase in the UK and the fact that "the products are much cheaper in some countries."



My replies were to those (particularly alberto98) who were posting about the disparity between US and UK list prices. As such, they were on-topic and to the point. Up until then, I never said anything in this thread beside a humorous reply to a cheap shot attack. Why you are trying to make my posts out to be an attack on the OP, a statement on the right of others to be angry, or anything else other than to clarify an oft seen mistake due to included VAT vs. excluded state tax, I'll never know.

Go ahead, have the last word. I've spent far too much time on your BS. :8



Wasn't it you who said above: "So you are welcome for the price break, while we here in the states were paying what you are finally paying now!" Does that sound like a friendly, non-partisan response to anything? It sounds more like a Sonos shill. It's usually the person giving who says "you're are welcome." That would be Sonos, would it not? (Assuming you were correct, although I'm not convinced you are.)
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Let's take a break from fighting other community members here. I know this is a hot topic, but there's no need to attack other posters.

The price increase is due to the change on the US Dollar to GBP exchange rate. The existing pricing had become unsustainable and you'll see other companies adjust prices in this same manner. The price increases aren't a straight percentage as they were rounded towards the closest logical price, so you will see that the percentage increased differs slightly per product.
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I'd bet that Sonos do not pay for everything they make in US dollars and a more accurate reason could have just said it was about the change in $/£ exchange rate.
Serious question jgatie, if you were to buy a Play 5 or a Playbar from Amazon how much would you pay? Equally if you were to buy one from wherever you may normally do so (local store?)?
From Amazon or a local store I would be charged list price plus my home state's sales tax (MA - 6%), so the total price at checkout would be $499 + $30 = $529 for the Play:5 and $699 + $42 = $741 for the Playbar. Note that this is because Massachusetts is one of 23 states for which Amazon pre-charges state tax on purchases, as of 2014. All other states (which have a sales tax, some don't) require the customer to declare online purchases at tax filing time, which allows most in those states to not declare anything at all and they very rarely get audited for it.

As a side note, I could drive 1 hour north to New Hampshire, which has no state sales tax, and buy either for straight list price. Technically I would owe MA sales tax at filing time, but again, that is very rarely enforced.
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[quote=Toolio][quote=jgatie]
Toolio wrote:



Talk about missing the forest for the trees. The issue here is a significant price increase. Nobody, no matter where they live, likes a price increase. It is quite common for people, no matter where they live, to complain about rising prices. Frankly, I doubt that the residents of the UK shopping for now-more-expensive Sonos gear care what the US pricing is. I certainly do not, because I do not, nor have I ever, lived in the US. As others have pointed out, what should be more relevant are exchange fluctuations between the ringgit and the UK pound, since the products are made in Malaysia and presumably exported to Britain. Over the past year there hasn't been much change, although there have been significant fluctuations.



Even the Apple fanboys would laugh at the Sonos fanboys like Jgatie applauding a £100 price rise on outdated technology.

Now I have seen it all.

Lol. ;););););)
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jgatie wrote:

Toolio wrote:


There are others reading this thread, who might be interested. Your continued involvement or lack of involvement in this discussion is immaterial. Feel free to not be interested, or to not care what the price is in the UK, or to be counted out. The original poster was not comparing UK and US prices. The message said: "Although the dollar rate is blamed", in reference to the fact that Sonos did just that. He did not start this discussion by comparing prices in the two countries, but by lamenting a price increase in the UK and the fact that "the products are much cheaper in some countries."



My replies were to those (particularly alberto98) who were posting about the disparity between US and UK list prices. As such, they were on-topic and to the point. Up until then, I never said anything in this thread beside a humorous reply to a cheap shot attack. Why you are trying to make my posts out to be an attack on the OP, a statement on the right of others to be angry, or anything else other than to clarify an oft seen mistake due to included VAT vs. excluded state tax, I'll never know.

Go ahead, have the last word. I've spent far too much time on your BS. :8



I've never compared us to uk prices; I couldn't give a monkeys what they cost in the US. My post was about using the bullsh!t excuse for us and uk currency to put the prices up. If currency rates dictated the cost to the end user we'd have seen price reductions before now.

It's like catnip to a cat.
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jgatie wrote:

From Amazon or a local store I would be charged list price plus my home state's sales tax (MA - 6%), so the total price at checkout would be $499 + $30 = $529 for the Play:5 and $699 + $42 = $741 for the Playbar.



Well that's basically £104 more than the new UK price with todays us to gbp conversion; but as mentioned, who cares. The UK price is a comical, and people here are obviously peeved. Business suicide, as reported in the press here.
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alberto98 wrote:

jgatie wrote:

Toolio wrote:


There are others reading this thread, who might be interested. Your continued involvement or lack of involvement in this discussion is immaterial. Feel free to not be interested, or to not care what the price is in the UK, or to be counted out. The original poster was not comparing UK and US prices. The message said: "Although the dollar rate is blamed", in reference to the fact that Sonos did just that. He did not start this discussion by comparing prices in the two countries, but by lamenting a price increase in the UK and the fact that "the products are much cheaper in some countries."



My replies were to those (particularly alberto98) who were posting about the disparity between US and UK list prices. As such, they were on-topic and to the point. Up until then, I never said anything in this thread beside a humorous reply to a cheap shot attack. Why you are trying to make my posts out to be an attack on the OP, a statement on the right of others to be angry, or anything else other than to clarify an oft seen mistake due to included VAT vs. excluded state tax, I'll never know.

Go ahead, have the last word. I've spent far too much time on your BS. :8



I've never compared us to uk prices; I couldn't give a monkeys what they cost in the US. My post was about using the bullsh!t excuse for us and uk currency to put the prices up. If currency rates dictated the cost to the end user we'd have seen price reductions before now.

It's like catnip to a cat.



It's difficult for some Americans to fathom that the U.S. is not the center of the universe. "Some," but by no means all.
Laying the bait out thick this morning are we? Sorry children, not going to bite. The sandbox is all yours! ;)
Interested that people are defending this. Sonos have gone out on a complete limb and raised prices significantly more than any other AV company that I can find (I'm seeing no prices rises and then a band in the 8-10% range), it smacks of opportunism to be honest. Compounded with that is that the price rises now bring them very close to Bluesound pricing, which I don't think many people would argue against being a stronger product.

It's an odd decision. I'm mid-house renovation and was about to pull the trigger on 3 connects to compliment my other Sonos kit, now pausing and considering shifting my kit onto ebay and moving wholesale across to Bluesound. Without the prices increases I think I would have stayed static.
Sonos are entitled to price as they like. If they have got it wrong they will suffer the consequences. If any company can maximise profit in one market by charging five times what it charges elsewhere, or whatever, that is what it should do. It's market capitalism.

I am NOT saying Sonos is right. Or wrong. I just think the ignorance about business and economics demonstrated by some of the critics on here is staggering,
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Actually, I think many people in this discussion have stated their cases quite clearly, showing considerable knowledge of business and economics--including those with whom I have disagreed above.

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