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Sonos Arc Muddy/Bottoming out Bass

G
Userlevel 5
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Beyond thrilled to receive the new Sonos Arc. True played my room and I have loudness on as well connected to LG B8 using Tidal and Spotify. Most of the sound range is phenomenal, aside from the bass. At even half volume the woofers are extremely muddy and sound terrible. Not sure if this is because I have under two hours of use but I wasn’t expecting to have to break-in the speaker. I own set of speakers next to it in the same room (KEF LS50W) and the difference is night and day. There have also been posts on Reddit regarding this issue. It is interesting given no reviewers have mentioned this issue but more than a few recipients have. Has anyone else experienced similar issues? Turning loudness off helps but it is disappointing for such a highly anticipated product. 

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Best answer by Scott - Sonos 3 July 2020, 01:04

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Ryan S
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We have identified a bug that has potential to cause distortion when playing bass-heavy content at higher volume levels on Arc. Our team is working on the fix now. We expect the software release to be implemented as early as next week. I'll share any additional updates here.

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Ryan S
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Thanks for all the great details everyone! We really appreciate what you’ve shared so far. The engineering team is looking into this right now and they’ve been able to reproduce it using your feedback. They’re working on a software fix for it now.

I’ll let you know when there’s more to share. I don’t have a timeline right now as they’re just getting started, but hopefully it won’t be long.

As of now, we don’t need more details on this one, but I’ll let you know if the team determines they need some more data.

Thanks again!

 

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Ryan S
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Hi everyone,

We released a software update today to address a bug that resulted in audio distortion for some customers listening to bass-heavy content at higher volumes on Arc.

Make sure you’re updated to 12.0.1 to get the latest release.

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Ryan S
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Hey guys, sorry if I’ve been confusing on statuses, this is one of the reasons why we generally don’t give much in the way of details. The team is investigating what went wrong and how. They’re also working on a solution. Since they’ve been able to recreate it, they know what the symptoms are and how to fix them. But as those of you who know about this sort of process, a lot goes into it.

All indications are that there’s a software fix coming for this as soon as the team can get it ready, tested, and out the door. This is one of their top priorities, as I mentioned before. We don’t have a timeline to share right now, but if I have one I’ll let you know. 

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D
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I think you are both missing the point - the issue isn’t an inherent lack of bass (this is to be expected -and if I want more base I’ll get the sub)

The PROBLEM is the bass that is there sounds terrible - like a cheap bluetooth speaker that is pushed past its limits. They released one update and claimed the problem is fixed - it’s slightly better BUT STILL THERE. Doesn’t matter if it is music (any service) or a movie. YES I’ve tried trueplay. Same on or off.

I SHOULD be able to listen at extended volumes without the bass sounding like garbage - it’s loose, it pops, it’s muddy, it’s uncontrolled. It isnt as good as the Beam.

They still need additional work on the DSP and Crossover frequesncies. THATS THE PROBLEM (not a sheer lack of bass).

The only reason I haven’t exchanged my bar yet is b/c there are others that have - and the result is still the same.

I should only have to buy a sub if I want MORE bass - not to FIX bass that sounds like garbage.

 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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Hi everyone, thanks for sharing your feedback and details. I noticed a few posts about hardware versions, don’t get too caught up in those codes, it’s not related. Basically they’re just the different colors. Other than beta hardware builds, there’s only the one “build” that I’m aware of for Arc. 

I’ll be checking in with the team soon to see if there’s an update that we can share, but they tend to keep details quiet. Last I heard on Friday it was still under investigation. Until there’s a clear identification on what the cause is, any on a resolution timeline would be a guess, and probably unreliable. We’d hate to provide that. I can assure you that this is at the top of the priorities list for the audio team with a lot of eyes watching it. They’re hard at work on finding a solution, but that’s about all I can say right now.

When there’s anything more I can share, I’ll let you know. 

Thanks for your patience!

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S
Userlevel 4
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Sorry @Ryan S , it was not my intention to start anything that might leave room for speculation about the root cause of this.

To all others posting here:
I have myself been in a situation where a just released product of my team did not perform as expected. It did pass the tests because the issue did only occur in the field. The process of resolving such issues is very tedious. First step is to reproduce it, which is often quite hard so we should be greatful that we are that far already. The second step is much harder though, a small group of people - the few software experts who make the excellent performance of Sonos possible - must resolve the issue under the highest pressure you can imagine. It is the time when numerous people who have no idea about the problem (like us, product managers, etc) start to ask you how far you are and try to give you tips which actually are all total nonsense, but you have to prove them they are wrong. Any time you - as a developer - say anything about “I have fixed it”, someone is going to ask you to release it asap. What would happen then is that the actual issue is gone, but you created 5 others, which you just don’t have any knowledge of yet. So of course they are taking the time they need and that is the sign of professional work. If they fixed this sound within a day I’d be very surprised about how Sonos creates the almost identical sound on all of their speakers. We pay the premium price because of what we get here, and what others don’t deliver.

So, let’s give them the time they need. The fix has to be created, and carefully tested.
As far as I am concerned I think we are customers of one of the most consumer friendly tech companies. Many other companies would probably simply ignore this issue until some really big news pages cover it. I have not seen any note of this issue outside reddit and this forum, and still they are working hard to solve the issue.

I wrote this because think it would be a bad idea to heat up this discussion, causing people to send their Arc back, even though they could have waited a few days more.

S

Hello everyone. I’m a product manager at Sonos. Thank you for sharing your experiences with Arc. The development team is monitoring this community and listening to your feedback. 

As we do with all Sonos products, we’ll continue to improve the experience for Arc through numerous software updates into the future. Last week we issued our first update (12.0.1) to fix a bug some customers were experiencing with low-frequency distortion at higher volumes. 

If you have specific music tracks or timestamps for TV shows and movies that you want to bring to our attention, please use this form. It is helpful if you can submit a diagnostic when you’re listening to the content. Instructions for doing so can be found here.

W
Userlevel 5
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I think all of us are upset but most of us are willing to give SONOS some time to get it right… but Ryan please kindly say something and give an update, let us know what’s been going on asap?

 

Thanks!!

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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Hi everyone, we’d love to look into this more, but we’ll need some more details to look into it better. Have you noticed this sort of sound from all sources of audio or just music? If it’s just music, does that mean all music services you’ve tried, or certain ones?

Does it sound better with Trueplay turned off?

How is the Arc set up currently? Do you have it open on a table, wall mounted, is there a surface above it? The more details, the better.

Thanks! We’ll try and get to the bottom of this together.

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R
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Twitter reaction:

 

Hey Maurice, thanks for reaching out. We don't have a timescale to share just yet. The team are working fast on a software update. The best place to stay upto date would be our Community Forum -

Understanding it’s been the weekend, I didn’t expect an update the past two days. That being said, I absolutely don’t think the standard “we don’t have a timeline for a fix...” answer is appropriate moving forward. The twitter response doesn’t bother me, but if that’s going to be the same answer given in this forum, that’s not going to fly. Sonos launched a super premium product in an unacceptable state. Daily updates are warranted at this point even if only to acknowledge the team is still working on it. I fully expect a substantial and tangible update prior to this weekend. 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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Thanks for all the great details everyone. The engineering team is looking into this right now. We really appreciate what you’ve shared so far.

If anyone else is experiencing this issue, the more you can share the better as it really helps pin what’s happening down, and also helps the team recreate the issue in their own homes.

The following questions are the sort of details that would help the most:  

  • What are you watching or playing that you’re hearing this on? Be as specific as possible please and let us know if it’s only with music. For music, it helps us build a list of tracks and sources that we can recreate the issue with. 

  • What volume do you experience this at? Does it only show up after a certain percentage or do you notice it most of the time?

  • Is your Arc wall-mounted?

  • If wall-mounted, does removing the speaker from the wall bracket and setting it on a credenza or table improve the issue?

  • Are you using Trueplay, and does it go away if you turn Trueplay off?

  • Do you have the Bass EQ setting flat or adjusted in some way?

  • If it’s possible, can you share an image of the setup?

  • Please submit a diagnostic from the system with it happening and let us know the number.

I’m going to mark this response as the “best answer” for this thread so that everyone sees it, but we’ll mark a new best answer when there’s more to share. Just because it says “Solved” doesn’t mean the team has stopped looking at it.

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M
Userlevel 3
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Hey Sonos, @Scott - Sonos, @Jean C. 

As I write this, we’re on page 41. We’ve all noted that communication from Sonos has been spotty at best. Sonos seems to believe that we should all trust the company to get this right, even on little to no information. Here is what I would ask:
1. Acknowledge the problem(s) that Sonos is working on with the Arc.

2. Give us some idea of a time frame or at least what you are pursuing regarding a fix.

3. Extend the return window for customers beyond the 45 days for those who log a ticket with support.

There seem to be a number of users with this problem. Extending the return window gives us all confidence that we’re not going to be stuck with a subpar soundbar. It gives Sonos a bunch of users to test builds or updates on. I’m afraid if you don’t fix this soon or do something like suggested to give us some assurance, you’ll end up with a pile of used Arcs and lose the feedback you desperately need to make this product what it should be. Not to mention that anyone buying an Arc is also highly likely to buy additional Sonos product. This isn’t just a single sale, but your future customers that you are winning or losing depending on how you handle this.

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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Support just reached out to initiate a replacement based upon my initial case from day one. Has anyone else received anything similar? I hate to go though that process if it really is software related but the fact that some people appear to not be affected is strange. 

Now you’ve got me concerned that they have determined it’s hardware and we are all going to need replacements haha. Hopefully we get an update from Sonos today. 

Hey @ripcordaff, a replacement shouldn’t be needed. The current process internally for this particular issues does not involve replacing the unit. Most likely you were working with someone not fully in the loop, doing a replacement because that’s one of the standard processes for most audio quality issues that come up. I’ve been working with the team investigating this issue and they have not asked for any of the units back.

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J
Userlevel 2
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This is pretty serious, and it shows the obvious issue in the ARC. I’m still keeping my ARC turned off, until their is software repair. I don’t want to take a chance in blowing my expensive speaker.


Drink

Cheers

 

P
Userlevel 3

The biggest problem with the ARC is the fact that at its core, its a broken product. Listen to well made any speaker or subwoofer. Bass doesn't distort the drivers on well-made products. The bass tones will roll-off past certain frequencies. The ARC straight up breaks when it has to handle lower frequencies. This is either a huge issue with the DPS or the drivers are just horribly designed. I don't think most people here understand how large of an issue this is as far as a straight-up design flaw and it is absolutely shocking to me a company like Sonos let this get through testing. Its a joke at this point. 

P
Userlevel 4
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I contacted Sonos Netherlands by chat. He told me I had to put bass on 0 (I have +8) and turn off true play. After that he told me I have to perform true play again, as this had a fix in the latest app update. Also my Eco system being on a wifi extender could cause problems. (i have this for a week now, because my Play 1 sound cut out in the back Of the garden)

 

if true play doesn’t fix it I have to call them

Well it sounds like we are going round in circles even more... Did he want you to do that standing on your head whilst drinking water too? Don't believe anything they say anymore to be honest.

 

At this point, I believe some people have expectations out of this soundbar that wont be met. I say this in the music department. And the reason is simply speaker design, the Arc is smaller in area than the playbar and has smaller woofers. It also doesnt have an integrated sub as the playbase. So it wont have similar “feeling” bass. Even though it is 800 dollars or euros it was designed for movies or tv primarily. And it delivers very well in that department. For me music is also good with the bar, but I think some are misled because its 800 it will be amazing for everything including music.

There are MANY users that are happy with the Arc performance, actually I think it has more than enough bass for my movies and shows and movies. But I recognize it isnt as good for music thump as other speakers.

Some compare it to Homepods, or Sonos Fives, look at the size look at the physical dimensions look at the woofer sizes (diameter) that is what determines bass of a speaker. 

I have seen one or two clips of a guy who shows a netflix movie and a bad sound, I would ask for a replacement mine does not behave like that.

I initially had some issues but after the firmware update it was fixed for me. If you are not satisfied gfo with another soundbar with a sub. That is my advice or grab a playbar with sub.

 

 

Smaller area, smaller woofers, bass isn’t as good as the HomePod which has a quality big size woofer and 7 tweeters for just $199, isn’t good for music - so the important question - What are you paying $799 for, bruh? I didn’t even mention the lack of passthrough ports and trash microphones for google assistant. 
 

Based on your own points, you are paying 50% premium for Sonos logo. Enjoy !

No need to “bruh” anyone.

 

And I am confused since you are legit agreeing with me. Smaller area smaller woofers less punchy bass….. The arc was not designed for hiphop/EDM music.

I have a homepod here in my room airplayed my tv there for a movie and I do not prefer it than the Arc. No way. I think the voices in the homepod all feel behind the music and bass and like drowned out. Not as clear as on the Arc. Theres 0 stereo separation of course. But it just feels like overly muddy to my ears - I do not mean muddy bass, the bass is very punchy but the vocals and other instruments feel like drowned out. 

But then again you are agreeing with me. Yeah the Sonos Arc is expensive. And if you are mainly interested in movies or Tv the arc has way better sound than a homepod. For music if you like heavy bass music yeah the Homepod delivers more of course. But then again for more acoustic or less bassy songs I prefered the Arc. I played some of taylor swifts new music and then again homepod sounds drown out . I am giving away the homepod since I already have Sonos Ones and the Arc.

I think you are missing the point - this was bought in t a higher price point than the playbar which did not distort at full volume on anything of mine even at full bass on the eq! The playbar was also cheaper and had a far better mid than this to so the ‘tinny’ effect was not there.

 

now you say it’s smaller with smaller drivers so I should expect it to sound worse? really do they not have an r&d department?

 

imagine if Microsoft said they were doing windows 11 it would take up half the space but crash twice as much… hardly progress is it?

L
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Sonos has acknowledged the issue. They are working on the issue. I am sure it is elevated and the highest priority item on the list. I am also sure that they want to make sure it is absolutely fixed before releasing a change. 

 

I would suggest everyone try setting the volume limit for their Arc to around 60% and test. Mine delivers quality sound at all test tones at this level and I do not need to worry about distortion at this point, or any potential damage to the device (if even an issue). 

 

That way I have great sound and the engineers can get it right. 

 

IMHO, mistakes happen, and in the pandemic I am sure it was much harder to release product. Is it a good excuse? No, it is not, but a little grace can go a long way. I get it, it is a lot of money for a product that is not working correctly. I have had similar, mistakes on new products, with vehicles. Again in the realm of major things you should care about, there are bigger issues in the world. Turn down the volume and let them work on it. If they fail to deliver then you can light up the message boards. 

Perspective: I mean we all had the extra cash to spend $800 on a sound bar during a global pandemic when millions are out of work. 

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
Badge +26

I’ve made this thread into a drinking game. Every time that same video appears you take a drink. Harsh midrange? Drink. S2? You know it. The only thing you can’t drink for is muddy bass, the thread topic.

You’re gonna blackout when Ryan posts that the update is released lol 

On a more serious note, Ryan, do you have an update to the software fix prior to heading into the weekend? 

Hi @Clark2j2, no major change since the last update. We expect the software release to be implemented as early as next week.

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S
Userlevel 4
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Is there any way that anyone can share a recording of what this sounds like, somehow?

Here, have a listen, its the same song on Arc and Play5

Bass Drops by Bass Boosted Beats on Amazon Music

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c12advxtdhsj25f/Arc2.m4a?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/19ghgov1pnxxkr5/Play5.2.m4a?dl=0

Ryan S
Userlevel 7
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You’re mentioning the audio team. So that means that there is actually a hardware dependent variance in our speakers which needs to be adressed with a slightly different sound tuning? We are not talking about a failed update or a wrong firmware being used?

Do you mean the team that’s investigating? That would be the audio software team. At the most basic level, make the software that tells the speakers what sounds to produce, and they do a whole lot more. Though there are other teams involved too to various degrees. I know in threads like this on these sorts of topics the conversation can get out of control with speculation, so let’s try to taper that down where we can. The right teams are investigating this already and we’ll let you know as soon as there’s a resolution or more details to share.

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D
Userlevel 1

Please have a look at this video:

 

Seems like the initial problem has been fixed BUT there are new issues with the bass at different frequencies.

 

 

M
Userlevel 3
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I think all of us are upset but most of us are willing to give SONOS some time to get it right… but Ryan please kindly say something and give an update, let us know what’s been going on asap?

 

Thanks!!

Yeah an update on the status and some sort of timeline for pushing a software update would be appreciated.

B
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

What do you guys mean it's still there? If you run a 40hz test tone at max volume and get no distortion how can the issue still be present exactly?

 

Just because it’s not there for the 40hz test, doesn’t mean it’s gone. 

My first test was the beginning scene of The Greatest Showman or really any action movie and turn the loudness on and have the bass at 0 or 1-2 like many would do… it bottoms out still.  It’s not as bad as it was previously but the issue still exists.

If you download any Dolby Digital trailers for movies and watch them, whenever a loud scene happens with action/cars/planes, etc you will hear it.  

The only way it doesn’t sound muddy/bottom out is if I turn the loudness off and the EQ for bass down. 

At least that’s just been my experience.  

G
Userlevel 5
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Hi Ryan, 

Thank you for the prompt review and response! Here are my details and findings: 

There is what sounds like woofer over excursion and bass muddiness with all sources. I noticed it first on Tidal and Spotify and then heard it as well on my LG native apps as well including Netflix and on my Apple TV 4k. This includes dolby atmos content coming through the ARC port on my TV. I have my Sonos Arc connected with HDMI to the ARC port on my LG and it permits atmos over HDMI 2.0. Turning loudness on or off makes a small difference at the volume level where the effect is noticeable but regardless it starts around half volume. I have my Arc on a table that my TV is on as well, no wall mounting. My room is fairly good for speakers as it is 15x15 with 8ft high ceilings and the Sonos Arc is roughly 5ft from the ceiling. I have true played the device 3x to ensure it wasn’t an issue with my setup and the problem persisted with all three attempts. I have my KEFs flanking the Sonos Arc just behind it (not obstructed) and they have no issues with bass. Furthermore, the Arc is placed roughly 1.5ft from the backwall in an attempt to minimize reverberations from the backwall. Happy to share additional details about my room and setup if needed. Thanks again!

Edit: Very low frequencies are not problematic its more the 50-80hz range where bass drivers experience the most excursion in the frequency response range. If a song test is needed, I recommend Penetrator by Pleasurekraft, it showcases the problem.

 

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