LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs

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I
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Thanks for the thread.

I have a Panasonic UB820 on order from Best Buy (took advantage of the $100 off sale). Meanwhile, I have been using a LG UBK90 4k Blu-ray player with the Arc (+Sub + 2 SLs) and LG C9 55”. I can confirm that I can get multichannel PCM from a DTS track through the TV to the Arc by converting it at the Blu-Ray player. I have 18 gbps + ethernet cables connecting all components.

 

Sharing my set up to see if we can isolate the problem with the UB820. See below for ideas on testing for those with the three components in this thread. 

 

My current set up:

LG UBK90 4k player via HDMI to Input 3 of LG C9 55”. Both are on the latest firmware

Sonos Arc + Sub + SL (x2) bought in November 2020. Also on latest firmware.

 

TV settings:

Audio out: HDMI ARC

eARC enabled

Passthrough Audio

 

 

From the UBK90 for DTS-MA discs

Audio Output set to PCM. I think that is the only setting that impacts this.

When I play a DTS 1.0 (mono) disc, I get PCM 3 Channel reported on the Arc. (Presumably, the converter in the 4k player is sending silence to the L&R and passing the 1.0 channel to the center.)

With DTS 2.0, I get PCM 2.0

With DTS 5.0, I get PCM 5.0

With DTS 5.1, I get PCM 5.1

 

I do not have a DTS X disc to try, so nothing to report there.

 

If I leave the UBK90 in Bitstream mode, I get no audio at all. (This makes sense since the Sonos at the end of the chain cannot process DTS. I thought if the TV were in Auto HDMI Arc out, it might handle decoding and re-encoding, but no luck on that.)

 

If I want to play a Dolby Atmos track from a 4K disc, then I have to put the UBK40 back into Bitstream mode. There is no separate option for Dolby and DTS handling on this player as there is on the Panasonic higher end models. If I don’t do this, I get a PCM 2.0 track which is probably the UBK taking the back up 2.0 channel that I think is in most Atmos mixes. Not sure. So, the annoyance is having to remember to swap settings on the UBK if I change discs. Dolby Digital 5.1 will decoded to PCM if in that mode or will pass through to the Sonos if I am in bitstream mode.

 

However, everything else is working as I would expect - I can get all the channels delivered to the Sonos from the source media. They sound correct to my ears during playback. So, if there is a handshake issue with the Panasonic, it is not a general failure - it is a specific one.

 

I can also report that AppleTV and my Tivo are all producing the right amount of audio as I would expect on the Sonos Arc via the LG C9. Atmos works and everything else is correct in terms of channels.

 

Back to the question of this thread and wondering if this configuration has been tested:

Using the Audio only HDMI output, directly connect the Panasonic to the Sonos. Use the first HDMI for the video to the LG C9. From there, adjust the output settings on on the Panasonic for DTS to mix down and for Dolby to passthrough to the 2nd HDMI port. TV can be in TV speaker mode (and should not get any audio anyway). 

 

I know this is not a good end state (since there would be no way to easily include other components), but it would at least determine if the Arc and Panasonic can hand off the multichannel PCM audio correctly. This may still mean that the LG or the Panasonic is at fault for the handshake error, but at least it would eliminate the Sonos.

 

I will try this if no one else gets a chance to. (My Panasonic is due in a week.)

 

Laird

 

The Arc isn’t the problem. I don’t even think the UB820 is the problem. I have the UB820 and I get multichannel PCM playing through my Arc. There is a specific handshake issue between the LG and UB820 and I believe the problem needs to be addressed by LG.

Am I correct in saying you have a C9 not a CX?

I
Userlevel 2
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I think you may be right. At least three people have suggested it must be a CEC/Handshake issue between the two devices 

 

Everybody who I’ve spoken to that has this working as “intended” has either a C9/Oppo203 or HDFury device. I haven’t come across anybody with a CX/UB820/Arc combo that has managed to get anything other than stereo 2ch from a DTS disc.

 

For what it’s worth I tweeted David Ludlow the author of This article who has said that he will try and investigate the issue, fingers crossed!

 

 

D
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I've considered it. I'd like to avoid cable clutter, I run a very minimal set up and absolutely hate the sight if wires. Plus for the money I'd rather put it towards a device I'd get more than a singular use out of like the Xbox. 

Ya I briefly had the Arcana and it caused CEC issues and sound issues with my Shield, which I may have been able to work out possibly but even more infuriating was how the ports were setup so it was messy af to cable up and hard to place somewhere good where you could see the LCD but not look like absolute crap.  Was such a waste of time/money, ended up refunding it but they had to take out shipping cost so lost like $50 something out of the whole ordeal but I’d rather not kept the thing.

L
Userlevel 3
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Confirmed from me on this issue - as expected but it’s good to have more confirmation the issue is real:

 

My Panasonic arrived, and is now paired with a C9 55” and Sonos Arc 5.1 set up. All products are on the latest firmware. I have not been able to move 5.1 or 7.1 audio from the player to the Sonos. DTS output set to PCM conversion and remains at PCM 2.0 48kHz regardless of any menu setting or input content (2.0, 5.0 and 5.1). Dolby Atmos and Dolby Digital are working as expected with bitstream mode all the way to the Arc.

 

Like others on the thread, I have tried multitudes of menu combinations on the C9 and Panasonic. No changes. I included playing with the 4k settings, and disabling upsampling for standard 1080 Blu-ray content. The Panasonic refused to issue different audio from DTS with this mix. I have no other TV format to try, so I have to reply on reports that the Panasonic unit can output 5.1 or 7.1 PCM (or LPCM) from DTS tracks. (not that it matters since I am not changing TVs).

 

As posted earlier, my LG disc player can output correct DTS>MC PCM with the same TV and Arc. That does not ascribe cause just that I have heard it work. The LG-LG devices might offer some advantage here but I would think not much.

 

Like others, I can only conclude the CEC connection is in error. Likely the TV, but it could also be fixable in the Panasonic too. I don’t have an HDFury box which from what I have read will be able to solve the issue.

 

P

So good news, we’re getting DTS support? But my CX doesn’t support DTS passthrough!

I hear you there. I got excited for a moment when I read the Beam announcement and then remembered LG won’t pass the format through. Have to keep hoping for Sonos to implement the proper Multichannel PCM 7.1 to 5.1 downmix. Or we could sell the LG, of course…

 

While I do love the LG G1 for its features, I’m slightly pained that I have supported a company that has dropped significant support for physical media. I have already warned people of LG dropping support for DTS, as I know it was an easy go to for some friends in the past. Now that Sonos will support it…LG not supporting it is really is eating at me a little. If the G1 wasn’t so great for gaming, I would walk away from it.

 

 

I have the LGC9 and arc  Will this new update make my Panasonic UB820 pass through DTS same setup as in the subject?

S
Userlevel 4
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Confirmed from me on this issue - as expected but it’s good to have more confirmation the issue is real:

 

My Panasonic arrived, and is now paired with a C9 55” and Sonos Arc 5.1 set up. All products are on the latest firmware. I have not been able to move 5.1 or 7.1 audio from the player to the Sonos. DTS output set to PCM conversion and remains at PCM 2.0 48kHz regardless of any menu setting or input content (2.0, 5.0 and 5.1). Dolby Atmos and Dolby Digital are working as expected with bitstream mode all the way to the Arc.

 

Like others on the thread, I have tried multitudes of menu combinations on the C9 and Panasonic. No changes. I included playing with the 4k settings, and disabling upsampling for standard 1080 Blu-ray content. The Panasonic refused to issue different audio from DTS with this mix. I have no other TV format to try, so I have to reply on reports that the Panasonic unit can output 5.1 or 7.1 PCM (or LPCM) from DTS tracks. (not that it matters since I am not changing TVs).

 

As posted earlier, my LG disc player can output correct DTS>MC PCM with the same TV and Arc. That does not ascribe cause just that I have heard it work. The LG-LG devices might offer some advantage here but I would think not much.

 

Like others, I can only conclude the CEC connection is in error. Likely the TV, but it could also be fixable in the Panasonic too. I don’t have an HDFury box which from what I have read will be able to solve the issue.

 

 

Have you turned on Viera link on the Panasonic?

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
L
Userlevel 3
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Confirmed from me on this issue - as expected but it’s good to have more confirmation the issue is real:

 

My Panasonic arrived, and is now paired with a C9 55” and Sonos Arc 5.1 set up. All products are on the latest firmware. I have not been able to move 5.1 or 7.1 audio from the player to the Sonos. DTS output set to PCM conversion and remains at PCM 2.0 48kHz regardless of any menu setting or input content (2.0, 5.0 and 5.1). Dolby Atmos and Dolby Digital are working as expected with bitstream mode all the way to the Arc.

 

Like others on the thread, I have tried multitudes of menu combinations on the C9 and Panasonic. No changes. I included playing with the 4k settings, and disabling upsampling for standard 1080 Blu-ray content. The Panasonic refused to issue different audio from DTS with this mix. I have no other TV format to try, so I have to reply on reports that the Panasonic unit can output 5.1 or 7.1 PCM (or LPCM) from DTS tracks. (not that it matters since I am not changing TVs).

 

As posted earlier, my LG disc player can output correct DTS>MC PCM with the same TV and Arc. That does not ascribe cause just that I have heard it work. The LG-LG devices might offer some advantage here but I would think not much.

 

Like others, I can only conclude the CEC connection is in error. Likely the TV, but it could also be fixable in the Panasonic too. I don’t have an HDFury box which from what I have read will be able to solve the issue.

 

 

Have you turned on Viera link on the Panasonic?

I’ve tried with it both on and off. No luck. It defaults to on and it does not seem to impact the sound output either way.

D

Panasonic just pushed out a firmware update to their 4K Blu-ray players, including the UB820. I don’t think this will have any effect on the UB820 multichannel LPCM via eARC issue with LG OLEDs, but I’m curious if anyone is able to test. Thanks

S
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Bummer. I had the 420 set incorrectly but the player and Panasonic tv sorted it out and gave me stereo playback for DTS tracks with my Playbase when it should have given me silence.

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
H
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I think someone else said they had a C9 in this thread and that it does still support DTS passthrough, so it might work for you. Unsure what DTS formats the Sonos Arc/Beam will support though…they may not support DTS-HD Master or DTS:X.

S
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I wonder if the Panasonic will start your tv and switch inputs?

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
R
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Panasonic just pushed out a firmware update to their 4K Blu-ray players, including the UB820. I don’t think this will have any effect on the UB820 multichannel LPCM via eARC issue with LG OLEDs, but I’m curious if anyone is able to test. Thanks

I can confirm it hasn’t changed anything.

G
Userlevel 7

It’s a problem with LG TVs. Either wait for LG to fix it (which may or may not ever happen) or get the HD Fury Arcana. I have an old Panasonic ST60 Plasma and I get multichannel PCM audio playing through the Arc with the Arcana. 

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
P

I think i read it will just be standard DTS not the top end formats. At this point I would just be happy to have basic DTS for surround sound

D

Panasonic just pushed out a firmware update to their 4K Blu-ray players, including the UB820. I don’t think this will have any effect on the UB820 multichannel LPCM via eARC issue with LG OLEDs, but I’m curious if anyone is able to test. Thanks

I can confirm it hasn’t changed anything.

Darn. Thanks for checking.

L
Userlevel 3
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It’s a problem with LG TVs. Either wait for LG to fix it (which may or may not ever happen) or get the HD Fury Arcana. I have an old Panasonic ST60 Plasma and I get multichannel PCM audio playing through the Arc with the Arcana. 

 

Yep, I agree. Would be surprised if LG bothered since they have to focus on their 2020 issues and any upcoming 2021 models. 

 

If I read the HDFury site correctly, the Arcana require me to put it in between the TV and the Arc with the Fury’s HDMI audio output going into the Arc. Then to use my other devices (Tivo and Apple TV), I would have to further add a switcher to get them into the Fury too, right?

G
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I think someone else said they had a C9 in this thread and that it does still support DTS passthrough, so it might work for you. Unsure what DTS formats the Sonos Arc/Beam will support though…they may not support DTS-HD Master or DTS:X.

correct, LG took off DTS support from CX and newer TV’s so C9 should be fine. 

 

AC and Beam will only support regular DTS, No DTS-HD or DTS-X right now.

L
Userlevel 3
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If I read the HDFury site correctly, the Arcana require me to put it in between the TV and the Arc with the Fury’s HDMI audio output going into the Arc. Then to use my other devices (Tivo and Apple TV), I would have to further add a switcher to get them into the Fury too, right?

 

Actually, in my case, it seems I can pass the other devices through the TV to the Arcana unit via the eARC output. So the LG TV would end up being the switcher in effect. https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/hdfury-arcana

 

Might give this a try!

 

G
Userlevel 7

 

 

If I read the HDFury site correctly, the Arcana require me to put it in between the TV and the Arc with the Fury’s HDMI audio output going into the Arc. Then to use my other devices (Tivo and Apple TV), I would have to further add a switcher to get them into the Fury too, right?

 

Actually, in my case, it seems I can pass the other devices through the TV to the Arcana unit via the eARC output. So the LG TV would end up being the switcher in effect. https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/hdfury-arcana

 

Might give this a try!

 

As long as you are getting the audio you want passing through your TV from the device, you don’t need to connect it to the Arcana. But if you want to connect multiple devices to the Arcana, it will require an HDMI switch. I have all three of my devices connected to a switch because my TV can only pass through Stereo 2.0 from external devices.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
S
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@zad

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

Oh yes I've tried that, I've spent hours trying to find the magic configuration. The issue is an HDMI handshake issue between the Panasonic UB820 and the LGC9, the Panasonic literally won't pass the LPCM signal to the television. I've used other devices that can pass through LPCM / covert DTS to dolby on the fly (xbox) with no issue.

 

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

 

The thing is it’s not really fake surround its most likely using the technology Dolby used to put surround information in stereo soundtracks on 35mm film, back in the day, for those theatres that had their technology. Those that didn’t just got a plain stereo playback. The more I think about it the more likely I think it is that Sonos just wasn’t looking at the info in PCM sound that had it until after the Arc came out.

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
J

So if I purchase the HD Fury Arcana for use with my LG CX, Panasonic UB820-K, and Sonos 5.1 system, then I should be able to get 5.1 surround for DTS Blu-rays via LPCM?

 

My original plan was to swap out my Panasonic for the LG UBK90 but I’d rather keep the Panasonic because of the HDR Optimizer. Also, it seems that on the LG UBK90, you can’t set audio input method for Dolby and DTS separately like you can with the Panasonic, so you would have to switch back and forth between PCM and Bitstream for DTS and Dolby tracks. Annoying.


Has anyone with the same setup as me confirmed that the Arcana solves the issue? According to the Arcana site, they will not accept returns if you use the item and I want to make sure it solves the issue here before purchasing it. 
 

Any insight is appreciated!

G
Userlevel 7

So if I purchase the HD Fury Arcana for use with my LG CX, Panasonic UB820-K, and Sonos 5.1 system, then I should be able to get 5.1 surround for DTS Blu-rays via LPCM?

 

My original plan was to swap out my Panasonic for the LG UBK90 but I’d rather keep the Panasonic because of the HDR Optimizer. Also, it seems that on the LG UBK90, you can’t set audio input method for Dolby and DTS separately like you can with the Panasonic, so you would have to switch back and forth between PCM and Bitstream for DTS and Dolby tracks. Annoying.


Has anyone with the same setup as me confirmed that the Arcana solves the issue? According to the Arcana site, they will not accept returns if you use the item and I want to make sure it solves the issue here before purchasing it. 
 

Any insight is appreciated!

I have the Panasonic UB820 UHD player and the Arcana, and I can confirm that I get multichannel PCM 5.1/7.1 audio playing from the Arc with all of my DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS:X encoded Blu-rays.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
L
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My original plan was to swap out my Panasonic for the LG UBK90 but I’d rather keep the Panasonic because of the HDR Optimizer. Also, it seems that on the LG UBK90, you can’t set audio input method for Dolby and DTS separately like you can with the Panasonic, so you would have to switch back and forth between PCM and Bitstream for DTS and Dolby tracks. Annoying.

 

GuitarSuperstar answered your question on the audio with the HDFury.

 

As to this specific part, I have both players and this is exactly the tradeoff I am playing with:

 

LG UBK90 - Correctly passes DTS audio via LPCM through the LG TV to the Sonos Arc. However, you need to set the UBK90 to PCM output for all audio. It can not be set specifically for DTS tracks vs. Dolby tracks. Non-4K content is sent to the TV in original format. 

 

Panasonic - DTS audio is PCM 2.0 for all tracks regardless of original input and this setting is separate from the Dolby pass through which will correctly send Atmos to the Arc through the TV. Upscaler is excellent on the Panasonic. (The TV is not bad though either.)

 

Anyway, I have an HDFury on order and can report back whenever I get it.

I
Userlevel 2
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My original plan was to swap out my Panasonic for the LG UBK90 but I’d rather keep the Panasonic because of the HDR Optimizer. Also, it seems that on the LG UBK90, you can’t set audio input method for Dolby and DTS separately like you can with the Panasonic, so you would have to switch back and forth between PCM and Bitstream for DTS and Dolby tracks. Annoying.

 

GuitarSuperstar answered your question on the audio with the HDFury.

 

As to this specific part, I have both players and this is exactly the tradeoff I am playing with:

 

LG UBK90 - Correctly passes DTS audio via LPCM through the LG TV to the Sonos Arc. However, you need to set the UBK90 to PCM output for all audio. It can not be set specifically for DTS tracks vs. Dolby tracks. Non-4K content is sent to the TV in original format. 

 

Panasonic - DTS audio is PCM 2.0 for all tracks regardless of original input and this setting is separate from the Dolby pass through which will correctly send Atmos to the Arc through the TV. Upscaler is excellent on the Panasonic. (The TV is not bad though either.)

 

Anyway, I have an HDFury on order and can report back whenever I get it.

 

Is the purpose of the Arcana not to provide eArc capability for older TV’s that do not have this feature? I don’t see why a CX would require such device something is clearly not working as intended however getting either Sonos/Panasonic or LG to own up that the fault is theirs could prove problematic

 

G
Userlevel 7

@iBoyley Yes, the primary purpose of the Arcana is to provide eARC capabilities for users with TVs with HDMI ARC only. But the Arcana can also allow users to bypass ANY TV with lip sync problems, audio limitations, or handshake issues too, and the LG CX is one of those TVs.

If you are waiting for LG to address the problem, you could be waiting a very long time.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi

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