LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs

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D
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After reading and troubleshooting for a long while, it seems that a setup of an LG 2020+ TV, a Sonos Arc, and a Panasonic ub820, you cannot get DTS to play as anything other than stereo without using an Arcana or something similar. Super frustrating, audio is one of those things I just want to work without fussing around with settings. In my case I have a PS5, so I guess I’ll be using that from now on for any disc with DTS. Unfortunate that I can’t use an otherwise amazing player for all my discs, unless I wanted to shell out another $250 for the Arcana.

The not-so-rare cases of a disc having Dolby Vision and DTS do sting.

Ya it is completely stupid that this couldn’t have been fixed by LG/Panasonic, not sure who the culprit is I forget after not reading up on this stuff in some time.  However what I ended up doing was bought that Sony X800M2 from Best Buy when it was on sale for $200 or less some time ago.  Thought it’d be annoying to have 2 but not really, and it’s the cheaper and cleaner alternative over the Arcana or that way overpriced Arcana Vrroom.  I have played a ton of discs in the Sony and have so far not had any issues, so I’ll keep my Panasonic UB820 obviously for disks with Atmos + DV and also since I have custom RF firmware on it I’ll keep for region B/C disks.

M

Sonos just put a 13.0 firmware release - @GuitarSuperstar - any possibility to confirm if this resolves multichannel PCM 7.1 to 5.1 downmixing issues when playing a DTS 7.1 sound track converted to PCM 7.1.

J

Question for the group.

I’ve followed the advice, set DTS to PCM within the UB820, plus set the downmixing to Surround, turned off Secondary audio etc. LG settings as standard.

The ‘Playback Info’ bar within the UB820 is showing DTS-HD MSTR, but within the Sonos app it’s showing as Stero PCM 2.0.

However, I am getting full surround sound across my rear SLs. With dialogue coming purely through the centre Arc. 

What do we think is happening here?

G
Userlevel 7

@madhav I updated the firmware and played the 7.1 audio test on my DTS demo disc… no change. Both side surround channels play the test tone, but both rear surround channels are silent.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
M

Thanks for checking. I guess the firmware fix Sonos were working on according to their CEO for this issue is not a priority.

G
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@JamesU2021 That’s interesting. Do you mind posting a screenshot of the Playback Info screen and the title of the movie you are testing?

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
S
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I believe the Panasonic adds some surround info into the stereo PCM mixes and with the changes for the Arc PCM support they started using I think. Certainly my 4k blurays with DTS tracks seem to get a much better up mix than previously with my Playbase. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
L
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OK, I have confirmed that multichannel PCM is coming through the Arc after unplugging the power cord for a few seconds.

My Sonos system is Arc + 2 x One SLs + Sub (Gen 3).

I have a Sony ubp-x800m2 UltraHD player → LG 65 inch CX OLED TV (2020 model). The LG is connected to the Arc via HDMI 2 (the eArc port).

For testing, I’m using the Saving Private Ryan (Sapphire Series) blu-ray which has English 5.1 DTS-HD MA.

Settings

Sony

     Digital Audio Out: PCM (rather than bitstream)

LG

     eArc: ON

     HDMI Audio Input: Bitstream

     Digital Audio Output: Pass Through

 

The Sony display says “LPCM 5.1”, while the Sonos app says the sound is Multichannel PCM 7.1. I’m guessing it’s not actually 7.1, but I’m also just glad that I can get multichannel PCM without having to wait for a firmware fix or Arcana. All those DTS 5.1 tracks can now be utilised!

Hope this helps. And hopefully this solves the issue permanently.

Such a relief! Woot Woot! Been fiddling too long to figure this out with the LG OELD CX + Sonos Arc/One SLs/Gen 3 Sub + Panasonic DP-UB820EB Bluray player and I didn't want to ship the HDFury Arcana from Asia just to see if I could get multichannel PCM with the LG CX eARC on my Sonos systems for my brand newly released 4K HDR Blurays that seem to come with DTSxx only ( no Atmos). 

I saw your post and decided to buy the less expensive Sony UBP- X700M 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Player as experiment. Amazon offered same day shipping and VIOLA. Multichannel PCM 7.1 for these brand new 4K HDR Blurays that keep coming in DTS xx only. Multichannel PCM 7.1 is SO MUCH better than Stereo PCM through the Sonos Arc. 

So many threads, and reading so many comments and I just happened to bump into yours here. I don't know why but seems the Panasonic DP-UB820EB Bluray player does not want to play Multichannel PCM 7.1 with the Sonos Arc system only miserable Stereo PCM for DTS xx. Clearly its not the LG OLED CX, but the Panasonic DP-UB820EB. 

Merci! 

M

I returned the Panasonic UB820 unfortunately and replaced it with Samsung UBD-M9700 that I got brand new from eBay and Sony UBP-X800M2
I have two setups

  1. Samsung M9700 + Samsung LSP9T projector + Sonos arc ( 2 subs and 2 surrounds) 

DTS audio is RE-encoded on the fly to DD 5.1 so no issues with that. Dolby Atmos is passed through to Sonos arc (TrueHD or DD+).

HDR10+ is supported by M9700 and is supported by LSP9T. No Dolby vision but not a big deal because projector doesn’t support it anyway

 

  1. Sony UBP-X800m2 + LG CX + Sonos arc (1 Sub and 2 surrounds)

DTS gets converted to LPCM 5.1/7.1 - still have to deal with Sonos firmware bug with 7.1 as above.  Dolby is passed through 

Dolby Vision is supported for dynamic HDR. LG CX supports Dolby Vision.

 

 


 

 

Z

Question for the group.

I’ve followed the advice, set DTS to PCM within the UB820, plus set the downmixing to Surround, turned off Secondary audio etc. LG settings as standard.

The ‘Playback Info’ bar within the UB820 is showing DTS-HD MSTR, but within the Sonos app it’s showing as Stero PCM 2.0.

However, I am getting full surround sound across my rear SLs. With dialogue coming purely through the centre Arc. 

What do we think is happening here?

This is just a virtual surround, I had the exact same experience as you and documented it earlier in this thread. If your bluray has several audio tracks (like different languages) usually track 1 is English DTS - MA, followed by foreign language tracks in dolby digital 5.1.  Use the audio button on the remote to change the tracks on the fly and you'll very clearly hear the difference between a proper multi channel output and the virtual surround. I used the 4k of Once Upon A Time In Hollywood.

 

Additionally my LG C9 got the 5.00.30 update and I can confirm that it did not fix any of the hdmi handshake issues with the Panasonic UB820. I'm still getting 2.0 pcm instead of multichannel LPCM when outputing DTS. 

Z

I think I found the solution.  The player and the Sonos app are showing 2 channel, but I’m getting surround.  Try it and let me know your thoughts.

My set up:

TV: LG C9 

Player: Panasonic UB820

Sonos: Arc, Gen 3 Sub, One SL x 2

 

Audio settings on the UB820

Digital Audio Output - DTS: PCM

Downmix: Surround Encoded

 

Audio Settings on LGC9

HDMI ARC

Digital Sound: Passthrough 

eARC: On

 

 

I
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I have a LG CX with Sonos arc and 2 ones as surround and a UB820

 

Watching Tenet last night I couldn’t get anything other than 2.0 to show on the Sonos app despite fiddling with the Panasonic and LG settings (connected via eArc) so infuriating. I had some sound coming from surrounds but all dialogue from the arc so I assume this was 2.0 

L
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I have a LG E9 (basically a C9) and a Sonos Arc. Set up is working correctly and normal settings, eARC on and pass through on, Dolby Atmos working correctly.

I have a USB with a couple of films that have DTS and am using the internal LG video player. I can’t get it to output in surround sound, I will get silence in Pass Through (as expected) and Auto. Changing to Digital Sound Out to PCM will give sound but only Stereo PCM 2.0.

Any ideas how to get surround sound or is it just wait for the DTS Sonos update? I have a Apple TV 4K, Chromecast Ultra, MacBook Pro and PS5 at my disposal if that helps. Need to get a Blu-ray player?

Edit: Used MacBook Pro via HDMI with Infuse app with eArc on and Pass Through and it seems to be giving PCM 7.1 (definitely sounds a lot better at least). PCM and Auto give Stereo PCM 2.0

Glad you found a solution. Once you hear the good stuff, Stereo PCM 2.0 can be painful for movie watching. 

DTS: I didn't know what I didn’t know!

Thankfully there is an army of frustrated consumers buying up all these new 4K TVs on many forums across the internet many suffering the same and presenting discovered work/arounds that will work for some of us but not all. 

Worse many of these new 2021 4K UHD remastered Blu-ray movies are only DTS or some form of DTS. 

Problem solved if we all just stream 4K UHD digital movies instead of buying physical discs. At least we get some form of room filling Surround Sound if Dolby Atmos is not available. And these new 4K TVs make streaming digital 4K UHD look very, very good with HDR and/or Dolby Vision applied. Not physical disk level of data, but so very good I can see many skipping physical altogether going forward.

L
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Hey guys, can anyone confirm that the Arcana doesn’t have the Dolby Vision issue?

 

I can 100% confirm that the Arcana works - you just need to set the device to pass the audio to the HDMI Out port and you do not use the eARC output port at all. You use the device just as a passthrough, similar to the intent of the DR HDMI 4K. This is my set up now and has been stable for weeks.

 

I can also confirm I am running into the Dolby Vision issue with the HDMI DR 4K. So, in my rushed eval on Monday, I missed this was not working with the built in EDID. I see now that the HDFury site has different EDIDs listed for the banks than what is on the sticker on the physical device. I have more to check on this and to get an EDID editor going for my personal interest.

 

And finally, I have chatted briefly on the HDFury Discord server with them. They are very fast and you can scroll through a ton of old chats too which can be helpful.

 

@Laird M Malamed

Can you clarify how you are using the arcana with the UB820, Sonos Arc, and your tv? I have the UB820, Arc 5.1 set up, and LG CX. Other posts (and HD fury's website) suggest that I need to split the audio and video from the arcana, with the "HDMI out" going to the tv and the "eARC out" going to the Sonos Arc. But it sounds like you are saying I could just go from UB820 --> arcana --> TV, using only "HDMI out"? I don't really get how the arcana fixes the passthrough issue with that set up, but I'm hoping I understand you correctly because that would mean I don't need an HDMI switch. If this is correct, is there a particular setting to look for on the arcana for this specific issue? Thank you in advance!

 

 

Sure thing. When I started down the path of solving this issue, I used the Arcana. My TV is a C9, so it still supports DTS pass through (which will be helpful when Sonos releases their pending update to accept DTS to the Arc and process it). The Arcana’s design is to split the audio out between the sound and the picture. The designed application is to bridge the gap between eARC sound bars and non-eARC TVs. This allows the full Dolby Atmos / True HD Dolby signal to reach the Sonos Arc.

As part of this, the Arcana inserts its own EDID data and sends that the 820. This small file basically expresses the capabilities between devices. The issue between the 820, the LG C9/X/1 and Sonos Arc is that for some reason, the Panasonic machine does not think the downstream devices can handle anything beyond PCM 2.0 for decompressed data. Since the Arcana correctly presents that it can handle this, the Panasonic 820 properly send out 7.1 PCM audio. This issue exists with the higher end Panasonic 9000 too.

The Arcana has a setting that allows the audio to be sent to both the eARC output but also to be wrapped with the video and sent to the video out. Hence, because the C9 supports eARC to the Sonos Arc, there is no need to split the signal. And because the C9 and Sonos can handle other sources such as Apple TV and the Xbox correctly, the Arcana just becomes effectively an EDID cleaner. You still need to decode the DTS at the Panasonic. (Dolby can be sent out as is since this always worked.)

In my own set up, I guessed that the Dr HDMI 4K would also work if I edited the EDID files. So, my current situation is that I am using that and bought their USB/Bluetooth dongle. I then sold by Arcana on eBay. But in any case, I am solving the same issue - showing an EDID to the Panasonic that it reads as being 7.1 compliant. If you read through this full thread, I think you can find my findings and final settings.


I hope that is all helpful. If not, just reply and let me know!

 

Laird

 

 

G
Userlevel 7

I have a LG CX with Sonos arc and 2 ones as surround and a UB820

 

Watching Tenet last night I couldn’t get anything other than 2.0 to show on the Sonos app despite fiddling with the Panasonic and LG settings (connected via eArc) so infuriating. I had some sound coming from surrounds but all dialogue from the arc so I assume this was 2.0 

Have you set the DTS setting on the UB820 to PCM?

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
S
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@zad 

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
T

I just wanted to add a little more info here:
 

I have a C9, Sonos Arc and had the Panasonic 820. While many DTS UHD discs has a core lossy stream (Gladiator plays perfectly fine on my setup for example in lossy DTS 5.1), all releases from Arrow Video don't. Both Donnie Darko and Pitch Black only has a lossless DTS stream, and won't output any audio when playing the discs. The only option is to turn on PCM, but that only gives you 2.0 audio.
 

I returned my 820 and went with the Sony 800m2. Seems like the best option now. Or an Xbox. 

I
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I have a LG CX with Sonos arc and 2 ones as surround and a UB820

 

Watching Tenet last night I couldn’t get anything other than 2.0 to show on the Sonos app despite fiddling with the Panasonic and LG settings (connected via eArc) so infuriating. I had some sound coming from surrounds but all dialogue from the arc so I assume this was 2.0 

Have you set the DTS setting on the UB820 to PCM?

Yep tried both still shows stereo pcm 2.0 on the app 

S
Userlevel 1

Some are getting it to work. Maybe set the Bluray player to bitstream and let all the devices sort it out.

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/lpcm-and-4k-blu-ray-players-6850675?postid=16488025#post16488025

I have tried setting everything to Bitstream, no dice.

 

Same for me. I have a LG C9 and Sonos Arc with 2 one sls. I can get multi channel from my PC, PS4 and PS5; I set the the Sonos Arc to Passthrough, the devices to LPCM and the app shows that I amn receivng 5.1 channels. However. my Panasonic UB820 shows as PCM stereo when I set the DTS to PCM. I’ve tried leaving everything unplugged overnight and tried other settings but no joy.    

No joy, indeed.

 

I also have the same setup. Instead of losing more hair, I finally gave up and purchased the Sony UBPX700, which also has Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision.  It’s very inexpensive and it works. I am now getting LPCM 5.1/7.1 when playing DTS discs.  Until the issue is fixed, I will use the Panasonic for Dolby encoded discs and the Sony for DTS encoded discs.

This is news to me… can anyone else confirm that the UBP-X700 passes LPCM 5.1 from DTS sources?

 

I think I found the solution.  The player and the Sonos app are showing 2 channel, but I’m getting surround.  Try it and let me know your thoughts.

My set up:

TV: LG C9 

Player: Panasonic UB820

Sonos: Arc, Gen 3 Sub, One SL x 2

 

Audio settings on the UB820

Digital Audio Output - DTS: PCM

Downmix: Surround Encoded

 

Audio Settings on LGC9

HDMI ARC

Digital Sound: Passthrough 

eARC: On

I can definitely hear sound occasionally from the rears depending on which settings I select on the C9 and UB820, but it’s just not… right. Way too much coming from the center only, it’s definitely not 5.1 surround.

 

I’ve got the same setup. Can’t get it to work either for DTS blurays. Have run out of settings to try on 820 and C9. Nintendo switch and PS4 gaming is fine and outputs LPCM 5.1/7.1. 

Similarly, I can confirm that the Apple TV 4k (5th gen) passes multichannel 5.1 PCM for me no problem, in fact it defaults to 5.1 PCM for non-Atmos sources now.

 

One thing to check is what type of DTS track you are trying to play. I was checking the 420 specs and it can't decode DTS:X only bitstream it. It can decode DTS-HD tracks. The 820 will be same I'd expect.

This is a great point, thank you for this. After doing some research, indeed the UB820 supports decoding for everything up to and including DTS-HD MA, but DTS:X (and Atmos) is bitstream only. I checked and all of the DTS discs that I’ve tried so far have been DTS:X, so I tried a DTS-HD disc hoping that it might pass 5.1 PCM properly and… nope. Still PCM 2.0.

I’m beginning to think that this is more of a UB820 problem than an Arc problem, because with any DTS/DTS-HD/DTS-HD MA/DTS:X source I’m seeing PCM 2.0 output listed under Playback Information. Is the UB820 unable to pass multichannel PCM? Or is there some sort of EDID/CEC mismatch that is leading it to think that multichannel PCM is not supported on the C9 and/or Arc? At present, in my testing, it isn’t even sending 5.1 PCM... so the blame doesn’t seem to lie with the Arc (yet).

Z

@zad

 

Have you set downmix to surround encoded on the Panasonic? Some time after the Arc was updated for better PCM support I put Divergent on and immediately noticed a vastly improved up mix with the DTS-X track with my Playbase. Not quite as good as the Atmos tracks on the sequels admittedly but very good. DTS-HD tracks needed a little bump in volume in the rear surrounds but still much improved. There must be some Pro Logic type of info the Panasonic is adding to the stereo output that Sonos wasn’t looking at previously. I’m not bothered by the lack of DTS support now and will be buying some more 4k release with DTS tracks that I put off buying. I was particularly pleased with 2001. The score sounded much better with the changes being mixed into the rear surrounds.

 

Ideally people would want to get LPCM rather than PCM for the best result but the TV is probably also a factor in that maybe?

Oh yes I've tried that, I've spent hours trying to find the magic configuration. The issue is an HDMI handshake issue between the Panasonic UB820 and the LGC9, the Panasonic literally won't pass the LPCM signal to the television. I've used other devices that can pass through LPCM / covert DTS to dolby on the fly (xbox) with no issue.

 

Fake surround is OK, but it's not really the experience that I was expecting from this system. I'm just waiting to get my hands on a Xbox One X, and the Panasonic will go up for sale. It's a fine player but it doesn't work with my system.  And nobody seems to be listening at customer support, we haven't seen a firmware upgrade in 2 years, I don't suspect we'll ever see one.

 

 

L
Userlevel 3
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I just wanted to add a little more info here:
 

I have a C9, Sonos Arc and had the Panasonic 820. While many DTS UHD discs has a core lossy stream (Gladiator plays perfectly fine on my setup for example in lossy DTS 5.1), all releases from Arrow Video don't. Both Donnie Darko and Pitch Black only has a lossless DTS stream, and won't output any audio when playing the discs. The only option is to turn on PCM, but that only gives you 2.0 audio.
 

I returned my 820 and went with the Sony 800m2. Seems like the best option now. Or an Xbox. 

I have never been able to pass LPCM 5.1 7.1 from the Panasonic 820 through my LG CX to Sonos ARC. only PCM 2.0. Thanks to someone else’s post in this community, I found the very affordable $150 Sony X700/M player w/ great IQ BTW will pass LCPM 5.1/7.1 from the player through the LG CX TV and to my Sonos Arc for my DTS: HD only blu-rays. It was too late for me to return the Panasonic, so I use the Panasonic 820 for all my Dolby Atmos blu-rays discs HDMI 3 and the Sony player for DTS only blu-rays HDMI 4. 

S
Userlevel 1

One thing to check is what type of DTS track you are trying to play. I was checking the 420 specs and it can't decode DTS:X only bitstream it. It can decode DTS-HD tracks. The 820 will be same I'd expect.

This is a great point, thank you for this. After doing some research, indeed the UB820 supports decoding for everything up to and including DTS-HD MA, but DTS:X (and Atmos) is bitstream only. I checked and all of the DTS discs that I’ve tried so far have been DTS:X, so I tried a DTS-HD disc hoping that it might pass 5.1 PCM properly and… nope. Still PCM 2.0.

I’m beginning to think that this is more of a UB820 problem than an Arc problem, because with any DTS/DTS-HD/DTS-HD MA/DTS:X source I’m seeing PCM 2.0 output listed under Playback Information. Is the UB820 unable to pass multichannel PCM? Or is there some sort of EDID/CEC mismatch that is leading it to think that multichannel PCM is not supported on the C9 and/or Arc? At present, in my testing, it isn’t even sending 5.1 PCM... so the blame doesn’t seem to lie with the Arc (yet).

To be clear, I mean the Playback Information menu on the UB820, not the Sonos app. I can see the DTS-HD soundtrack (or DTS:X or whatever it may be..) and the output is always showing PCM 2.0, so the issue appears to be on the UB820 side rather than the Arc. Since multichannel PCM is working well with other devices mentioned upthread (PS4, PS5, PC, ATV 4k), this does seem to isolate the UB820 rather than the Arc.

S
Userlevel 1

I have a Sonos Arc and UB820, and I get multi-channel LPCM audio playing through my Arc from ALL of my DTS-HD Master Audio Blu-ray discs. More than likely, the problem is your TV, HDMI cable, or TV settings.

So far you are the only person who seems to have this working properly. Which TV make/model are you running? Would you mind sharing your exact settings on the UB820 and your TV?

B

I don’t get it I have tried exactly what is said and I have the LG C9 and UB820 with the Sonos Arc and I am still getting no sound with the unsupported tv audio message. 
I tried the above and turning EARC off and nothing…

There may be a few other settings you need to tweak with. Do you wanna post your settings and we can take a look?

These are the settings that I have tried to match what was said above but doesn’t seem to be doing anything for me

At first glance the main difference I see between your settings and mine is that I have BD-Video Secondary Audio set to off. Perhaps give that a try, to see if it helps.

S
Userlevel 1

I have a Sonos Arc and UB820, and I get multi-channel LPCM audio playing through my Arc from ALL of my DTS-HD Master Audio Blu-ray discs. More than likely, the problem is your TV, HDMI cable, or TV settings.

So far you are the only person who seems to have this working properly. Which TV make/model are you running? Would you mind sharing your exact settings on the UB820 and your TV?

I have a seven-year-old Panasonic ST60 plasma with HDMI ARC only. So I added the HD Fury Arcana device between my TV and the Arc that acts as an eARC connection.

Digital Audio Output settings on the UB820:

  • Dolby Audio: Bitstream
  • DTS/DTS-HD: PCM
  • Secondary Audio: Off

Yep, we’ve all got DTS/DTS-HD set to “PCM” and Secondary Audio set to “Off”. Still PCM 2.0. Sounds to me like the HD Fury Arcana is doing a better job with the handshakes, because the same settings on the UB820 are not working properly with the C9 via eARC. Have you been able to get multichannel PCM for any discs encoded DTS:X?

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