LG C9 + Arc + UB820 / Multichannel PCM for DTS Blu-Ray discs

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G
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@Chetiya According to the LG website, the latest firmware update only enhances the picture quality.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
L
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You are a legend Laird. 

I've got all my fingers crossed that you get something back from Panasonic suggesting they accept the problem is theirs and they intend to fix it. 

Thank you!

No news or reply to my providing more info from Panasonic yet though. Fingers crossed indeed.

 

Acknowledgment but no actions yet:

“Thank you for contacting Panasonic Consumer Support.
With regards to your inquiry, your feedback and observations have been noted and passed along to our dedicated team”
 

C
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Thanks for confirming, mine hasn’t arrived yet but your update is reassuring! I’ll confirm it works for the GX when I get it.

J
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Interestingly some guy on Reddit owns a CX and said that

“If you set the TV earc to passthrough and then unplug the TV from power for a few seconds. It will start miraculously playing whatever the number of channels you expect.”

 

I haven’t got round to testing it yet

 

M wife wanted to watch All About Eve (which has a DTS-HDMA 5.1 track) so on a whim I decided to unplug my CX for a few seconds. Guess what, the Sonos app says Multichannel PCM 7.1!!

I’m not sure All About Eve is known for its spectacular surround sound, so next, I’ll try it with Die Hard or another DTS disc.

 

Stay tuned...

B
Userlevel 1

I’ve just checked my C9 and UB820 and still receive PCM Stereo rather than PCM Multi channel (I get LPCM multi channel for my PC and PS5). Is anyone now receiving PCM Multi channel rather than stereo when playing DTS HD MA blu rays/4ks through their player?

Mixed feeling about it. It seems that the last LG update has solved the issue in some cases, as for @movie_monster for ex, but the issue is still here for others, like me.

 

It’s clearly a problem between LG Oled TVs and Panasonic UB820 player; has changing the player (for a Sony X800-M2 or an LG UBK90 for ex) will immediatly solve the problem, as changing the tv (tested on a Sony 55A90J on my side).

 

So a specific handshake issue between UB820 and LG Oled TVs seems to be the explanation; meaning that we need Panasonic and/or LG to update their firmware to definitly resolve this problem.

J
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OK, I have confirmed that multichannel PCM is coming through the Arc after unplugging the power cord for a few seconds.

My Sonos system is Arc + 2 x One SLs + Sub (Gen 3).

I have a Sony ubp-x800m2 UltraHD player → LG 65 inch CX OLED TV (2020 model). The LG is connected to the Arc via HDMI 2 (the eArc port).

For testing, I’m using the Saving Private Ryan (Sapphire Series) blu-ray which has English 5.1 DTS-HD MA.

Settings

Sony

     Digital Audio Out: PCM (rather than bitstream)

LG

     eArc: ON

     HDMI Audio Input: Bitstream

     Digital Audio Output: Pass Through

 

The Sony display says “LPCM 5.1”, while the Sonos app says the sound is Multichannel PCM 7.1. I’m guessing it’s not actually 7.1, but I’m also just glad that I can get multichannel PCM without having to wait for a firmware fix or Arcana. All those DTS 5.1 tracks can now be utilised!

Hope this helps. And hopefully this solves the issue permanently.

J
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@JockWu

 

To clarify, you have to unplug before each test attempt? How long does it work for before you need to unplug again?

No, I only unplugged the one time. I’ve only tested it on 2 discs so far (All About Eve and Saving Private Ryan). Will check if it’s still working and test on more discs later today.

J
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@JockWu

 

To clarify, you have to unplug before each test attempt? How long does it work for before you need to unplug again?

No, I only unplugged the one time. I’ve only tested it on 2 discs so far (All About Eve and Saving Private Ryan). Will check if it’s still working and test on more discs later today.

@JockWu  thanks. Did you have to keep the blu ray player on when you did the unplug / plug as @iBoyley  suggested? I haven’t had a chance to test it yet. 

Yes. The blu-ray player was on when I unplugged the CX.

L
Userlevel 3
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Hi @tsb4515 - 

 

In the situation you are describing, the question of device is not going to be a factor. We are finding that the Arcana or DR HDMI 4K (with edited EDID) are acting as a passthrough to the 820. So, if your 820 is going into input 3 on your CX, the HDFury device sits between the 820 and the TV only. The Sonos Arc HDMI goes into the TV Input 2 (with eARC turned on, HDMI set to bitstream for inputs, and passthrough for eARC out). So, the CX will then pass whichever audio out the eARC to the Sonos. That includes the audio from the 820 (that has passed through the HDFury device), the internal audio from the CX Apps or an AppleTV. 

 

This works because the AppleTV will output either Dolby Atmos, Dolby Digital or PCM audio - all of which will pass correctly through the CX to the Sonos Arc. I suspect other streaming boxes such as Roku or Amazon ones operate similarly. 

 

At this point, the Arcana can be set up with only 1 setting change (audio routed to both eARC and HDMI Output), so it is much easier to use. $100 easier? That is a question each person would have to answer.

 

Lastly, I am not following your point on DR HDMI converting DTS. My understanding is that no changes to the image or audio is done by the device. Instead, the device tells the source device which formats of audio/video are supported by devices downstream. So, in the case of getting multichannel audio out of the 820, what is working is that the HDFury device corrects an EDID mismatch between the 820, C9/CX, Sonos. However, any decoding of DTS to MC PCM must be done by the Blu-ray player (since the Sonos Arc cannot do it).

 

Hope that helps.

C
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Quick update - I’ve got an Arcana now and can confirm it works with the GX/Panasonic/Sonos combo.
 

One odd quirk is when the Panasonic starts playing a disc the video input drops for a good few seconds, long enough for the “no input” wallpaper screen to show up. The Arcana manual alludes to this happening when switching display modes (HDMI renegotiation), however I was surprised at how long it takes to switch. A small price to pay to have the setup working as expected though! 
 

Annoying as hell that you need another device that costs over half the price of the Panasonic player to get this working, though I have to say the Arcana is a nice little piece of kit with quite a few handy settings (none of which I actually need as it’s set to simply output everything straight to the TV)!

G
Userlevel 7

@Chetiya Glad you got it working with the Arcana. I experience the same video input drop on my Panasonic TV for a few seconds too. You’ll get used to it over time.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
B
Userlevel 1

For the price of an ARC and an a Arcana your are not far off a Sony HT-A7000 and no issues at all. Hard choice to make..

It’s not really the point here, considering the fact that the issue we’re talking about is due to the Panasonic UB820 coupled with a LG C9 / CX / C1 / C2.

There’s no debate here about the choice between an Arc or another product ;-) 

 

L
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I found an error in my shard EDID file above. It is an interesting find because it makes me think that Sonos may be the source of the issues after all. Or how the Sonos and LG talk to one another. 

 

The error has to do with audio frequency. (Specifically, I have a number of Blu-ray Audio discs. These discs basically have one image - a menu of sorts - and the rest of the disc is Hi-res audio. I like the format (mostly for classical and opera) because I can see the track easily but am not distracted by the image of a conducted concert.)

 

Today, I happened to put in a disc with DTS-MA 2.0 channel at 192 kHz sample rate. (Confirmed in the status menu that this frequency. I think DTS-MA is somewhat of a container format.) Guess what? The audio could not be rendered by the Sonos. That is not a surprise though - the Sonos is limited to 48 kHz. What surprised me is that even with the Panasonic set to decode DTS to PCM, it did so at the 192 kHz native rate. I looked back at the stock LG EDID, and indeed it shows that 192 kHz (and 96 kHz for that matter) as a supported audio format - which indeed it is for the LG’s internal speakers and playback. I adjusted my EDID on my HDFury DR HDMI 4K and removed the LPCM frequencies  above 48. Presto, the Panasonic correctly output at 48K and the audio played.

 

Now, what is more interesting is that all of this was with HDMI ARC “Passthrough” audio selected. This is needed to support Dolby Atmos as True HD all the way to the Sonos. When I changed the setting to “Auto” and used the stock LG EDID, the Panasonic output 192 kHz but the Sonos could play it. Why? Because the LG must have been re-encoding it to 48 kHz. Hence, the LG “knows” that the Sonos cannot support the higher frequency - or that is my guess. So, why does the Sonos not broadcast to the LG the speaker configuration data? And why does the LG not pass that along?

 

So, for those trying this themselves, the needed changes to the EDID are:

  1. Add the speaker configuration data
  2. Edit the LPCM formats and remove the 192 and 96 kHz options 
H
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So good news, we’re getting DTS support? But my CX doesn’t support DTS passthrough!

I hear you there. I got excited for a moment when I read the Beam announcement and then remembered LG won’t pass the format through. Have to keep hoping for Sonos to implement the proper Multichannel PCM 7.1 to 5.1 downmix. Or we could sell the LG, of course…

 

While I do love the LG G1 for its features, I’m slightly pained that I have supported a company that has dropped significant support for physical media. I have already warned people of LG dropping support for DTS, as I know it was an easy go to for some friends in the past. Now that Sonos will support it…LG not supporting it is really is eating at me a little. If the G1 wasn’t so great for gaming, I would walk away from it.

 

 

L
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I’m a bit of a layman with all this and not sure I understood all of the posts.

To clarify, will those two steps fix the LPCM issue for this setup, without needing an additional switcher?

I’m still hesitant to pay more money for something I should have, so looking for a solution without added gizmos.

Yes, that is my preliminary finding. Also, I suspect that the HDFury Arcana will NOT work if the source audio is decoded 192 or 96 kHz. However, with the DR HDMI 4K, the result looks doable. I am using my fix now and playing back 192 kHz files correctly as downsampled 48K.

 

As far as I can tell (and others on this thread), the only way to get decoded DTS in multichannel PCM is to use an intermediary device or swap out the Panasonic for a different player. It really depends on how many discs you have and in which formats. You could also rip discs and decode the DTS at that time. Of course, that is a whole other source of pain.

 

I was just looking at old LG C9 threads at their site, and this was spotted back in 2019. LG said they had fixed MC LPCM then and people reported it working, at least from PlayStations and Xbox’s.

 

I want to do a few more tests this weekend using the LG 90 UHD player to confirm that does work as expected. (The issue with that player is you cannot chose to decode DTS without doing the same to Dolby Atmos too.) After I have that info, I will chase LG and Sonos on this issue.

 

 

S

So here’s my experience. I have the LG B9(same as C9/E9 from an Earc standpoint), Sonos Arc + One sl surrounds. I run 4k disc on my Sony ubp-x700 player. For the longest time I couldn’t play any DTS disks in anything other than stereo 2.0. I haven't had a chance to test the LPCM update for the Arc until last night. With my LG B9 set to “passthrough” instead of “Auto” under the HDMI ARC setting I put Inception 4k(DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1) in the x700 player, changed the “Digital Audio Output” to PCM and Hallelujah. Sonos app reads Multichannel PCM 5.1. The sound is by far better than that stereo 2.0 crap. I am one happy camper. I should also note 2 things. (1) I tried this with the Inception standard blu-ray on my ps4(slim) with it set to LPCM and the result was same. Multichannel PCM 5.1. (2) The tv HAS to be set to “Passthrough”. When switching back to “auto” I DO NOT get Multichannel PCM 5.1, only stereo 2.0. 

 

I'm gonna test Bad Boys for Life 4k as it has a DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 to see about any possible downmixing issue with the Arc update. 

L
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@Hebassaurus Thanks for sharing your situation. The more we point out these issues, the better. Not sure we’ll get the fixes we want, but at least we’ll have workarounds. I suspect that LG is putting its development into the soundbars they make. I just added a C1 model to my lineup (attached to an Arc), and I see a number of new settings related to their products. (I have my Oppo 4k plugged into this, and happily DTS and Dolby Atmos all played fine with my settings.)

 

My experimentation (which I have not changed in months) was on a C9 model. I did not see the Dolby Vision issues you describe. So, could be a G1 issue or something else wrong in the pathway. Have you changed out all cables as a test? I used 8K cables to be sure there was enough bandwidth. 

 

Also, my Dolby Vision testing is probably limited. While I do have a number of UHD discs, my main disc viewing is older Criterion and Kino Lober released films - most with DTS tracks which caused me to find the issue with the Panasonic-LG-Arc set up.

 

Finally, definitely do not turn on PCM or have the LG modify the audio signal. That will for sure create issues with the Arc.

J

I think that's basically correct. Seems you have 3 options to fix the issue: 1. HD Fury Arcana; 2. Dr. HDMI (at least per Laird's experience and expertise); 3. Buy a different 4k blu ray player. 

You can find threads discussing the Sony UBP-X700 as an alternative. Main setback with this player, in my opinion, is that you have to manually toggle Dolby Vision on/off, but it does transcode DTS into multi channel PCM. I got one around black friday to test it out, and it works with my DTS movies. Now I have two 4k players, but it was about $150 cheaper than the arcana. 

Really depends on how much physical media you have or plan to obtain. In my experience, most recently produced films have an Atmos soundtrack; older, remastered 4k discs tend to have DTS; and the majority of my standard Blu ray collection is DTS.

I love the Panasonic player, but if I still had the opportunity to get a full refund, I just might do that and pay a fraction to get the Sony that works with all of my movies.

G
Userlevel 7

@Hebassaurus I am using the 2015 DTS Demo Disc Blu-ray:

 

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
B
Userlevel 1

For information, I had an open ticket with Panasonic support since couple of weeks, with lot of Q&A by email with their support agents, who where in contact with internal software engineers (at some point I have gave them the link and it seems that they have read this topic).

 

Here is their final conclusion :

 

« The factory has been notified. Their point of view is that the problem is with the TV, not with UB820: The recorders do not have EDID. The TVs have EDID and update the audio part with the EDID of the Sonos sound bars. If the problem disappeared by converting the EDID of the TV with a special device, the EDID is "corrected" to conform to the HDMI standard. »

 

 

So, for Panasonic, the issue is on LG side.

L
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And thanks for the tips @Laird M Malamed . Good to hear that it all works great on your Oppo! Wish I could find one of those...maybe I’ll look into acquiring one used, but we’ll see...kind of expensive..and used haha. So does the Oppo convert it to Multichannel PCM 5.1 correctly from DTS-HD Master 5.1, or is that still incorrectly coming through as Multichannel PCM 7.1?

 

Still producing 7.1 for DTS discs but correctly sending out Dolby channels (including Atmos all the way to the Arc with True HD). I have not done a lot of sampling to be accurate - just a few discs so far. Will test more next weekend.

 

Anything passed through as LPCM will output in 7.1, its an issue on the LG, Im surprised it’s still an issue on the C1, clearly LG have not had enough reports of this problem.

Not helped by the clueless LG first line of support who just dismiss the issue.

I have tried many times reporting it for my CX without success. 

S
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Great thread. I tried to fix that exact problem and spent hours (stretched over a couple of days) trying to fix this issue. ARC & 2022 LG OLED & Panasonic player. As a bonus I have all stuff running through a Marantz Cinema 70S AV receiver - using it as HDMI switch. Makes things even more complicated. After reading all of this I tried using my PS5 as UHD player. Runs through the Marantz to the LG TV and then to my ARC. 

 

Using the Panasonic player: 2.0 PCM. 

Using the PS5: 7.1 PCM (but no Dolby Vision etc) 

Should have tried this earlier… it’s a decent compromise for now, I guess and hope the next soundbar from Sonos will support DTS:X. 
 

Thanks everyone who contributed. Really helpful. 
As a bonus I have a new problem now: since tonight and since running the new setup my WiFi keeps breaking down. Once I turn off the ARC it comes back. Haha. Welcome to hell. 

 

 

You might want to check your telly on rtings dot com. check the audio section. I would have thought it would pass on a DTS signal or a LPCM signal from your panasonic.

 

My telly won’t pass on a DTS 5.1 signal to my Playbase unfortunately but I hope to replace it later this year most likely with an LG.

2 x Play 1, Playbase, Panasonic EX 600, Panasonic UB420. One, One Sl + submini
G
Userlevel 7

@mac74 Lossy is a form of audio compression that results in some audio quality loss from the original recording during the audio conversion. Common lossy audio formats are Dolby Digital, DTS Digital Surround, and Dolby Digital Plus. These formats are commonly used on DVDs and streaming apps like Netflix and Disney+. Because lossy audio is more compressed, there is less audio data which allows it to be streamed or put on a DVD.

Lossless is a form of audio compression with no loss of audio quality from the original recording. Common lossless audio formats are Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS:X, and LPCM (or multichannel PCM). These formats are commonly used on Blu-ray and UHD discs because they can hold much more data than a DVD.

Dolby Atmos audio can be delivered through three different audio codecs:

  1. Lossy Dolby Digital Plus (streaming)
  1. Lossless Dolby TrueHD (Blu-ray)
  1. Lossless Dolby MAT (used on Apple TV 4K, Xbox One X/S)

Lossless audio is higher quality audio than lossy, so lossless multichannel PCM is better quality than lossy DTS Digital Surround on your PS4.

Some home theater enthusiasts prefer a certain audio codec over another, but all lossy formats generally sound the same in quality, and all lossless formats generally sound the same.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
L
Userlevel 3
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Alas, no joy from my Panasonic 820 + LG C9 55”. I did update to the latest software today, and if what Panasonic says is right, then this is still a LG issue. I thought I saw someone with a B9 got DTS 5.1/7.1 to work, but maybe I read that wrong (just with eArc off). I do see that CX machines are working, so perhaps LG did not want to go back so many versions for fixes.

 

So, HD Fury still in the stack for me! Oh well. No complaints though since it does work.

 

(Also, separately, no issues with Xbox Series X streaming 5.1 or Atmos though the C9 to the Sonos Arc. That seems fine and while I don’t the Atmos test really shows off the imaging, it does track to position correctly.)

L
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I think that's basically correct. Seems you have 3 options to fix the issue: 1. HD Fury Arcana; 2. Dr. HDMI (at least per Laird's experience and expertise); 3. Buy a different 4k blu ray player. 

 

 

Yes, that’s right as of now with one more option (not all that good!) I will list below. I was hoping that with the Sonos DTS update that perhaps another workaround would show up. Alas, that was not the case. DTS does work (but not with the CX or later LGs) and even then, there are issues with getting the Panasonic (or any player) to output the lossy DTS track instead of the lossless DTS-MA track. When the Sonos “sees” this, it throws an error. The only way to prevent that is to use the secondary audio toggle - but that will eliminate Atmos output as a consequence.

 

In terms of physical media, if you have a lot of 5.1 DTS tracks, then these limitations are frustrating (at best). If your physical collection is of older movies with original 2.0 or mono tracks (for example, much of the Criterion Collection regular blu-rays or even older films before 1990 such as the 4K Universal Monster box set that just came out), the limitation of 2.0 PCM is actually not a problem. So, it depends on the collection. (Similar to what Jray1987 mentioned about the Sony player and toggling Dolby Vision.)

 

I really do love the Panasonic high end players and particularly their upsampling of 1080 content. I have tried the LG 4k and still have my Oppo 203 4k player (which I use for SACDs). Neither look quite as good to me as the Panasonic. 

 

So, for the other options to consider - which is greater in cost but adds more functionality - one could get a low cost receiver with enough HDMI inputs as necessary and eARC functionality. In theory - I have not tested this though - you could have the decoding done by the receiver and pass that along the HDMI path to the LG and then onto the Sonos. It’s also possible on some receivers to output video on one HDMI and audio on another (which is why eARC is a must). While adding equipment and cost, you could get more inputs than the LG has, amplification for future speakers and likely one remote that can control this set up. I only add this here as a possibility. I have NOT gone down this route despite wanting more inputs for my LG (for which I got an inexpensive 4k switcher). However, this should work too. 

 

By far, the least expensive option is to go with the Sony player.

 

The good news is that regardless of how you get there, I truly believe that once the Panasonic or Sony is paired with the LG and Sonos Arc (+ surrounds & sub if you have them), that this is the best combo without having to invest in completely separate speakers. 

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