With 4K bluray players starting to emerge now, seems we really need to start keeping straight which ones will allow those of us with Sonos Playbars enjoy some semblance of Dolby sound when certain 4K blurays only offer DTS. (Note, I haven't yet purchased a 4K bluray, so am unaware of the typical sound offerings.)
But we went through this once already, for regular bluray players, with many threads devoted to outlining the multiple Samsung models of bluray that decode DTS to Dolby 5.1 (I ended up buying a Sony that also does so). Now let's do the same for 4K players.
So far we have the Samsung UBD K8500 (which seems to clearly decode DTS to dolby.) Now what about the Philips? The Panasonic? The Xbox One S?
Anyone have any idea?
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I'd be surprised if most people could tell the difference between the Samsung and other players, if they weren't told what they were looking at, and with the new Samsung M9500 about to be released the price of the 8500 will surely fall further.
Agreed, you probably won't know if you're missing out on some fine detail in the feathers or some small sound from the surrounds unless you were in a screen to screen comparison.
Truth be told... I think people put way to much into how professional reviews differentiate the hardware they can buy.
That being said, the Samsung is a great stop-gap measure for those waiting on a DV compatible disc player that works with their sonos setup. I'm looking forward to getting it myself.
I started watching Planet Earth 2 UHD on Sunday with my Samsung player and it looks and sounds amazing. No Atmos but a DTS HD MA 5.1 soundtrack that the Samsung handles very nicely down converted through the playbar. My advice is you can read about the new players/new features and sit on the fence all day, or you can pick up the Samsung (cheap enough at the moment) and experience 4k/HDR and 5.1 through the playbar right now (I think Samsung have also just issued a new firmware update for Netflix HDR, with Amazon HDR already available).
I'd be surprised if most people could tell the difference between the Samsung and other players, if they weren't told what they were looking at, and with the new Samsung M9500 about to be released the price of the 8500 will surely fall further.
I'd be surprised if most people could tell the difference between the Samsung and other players, if they weren't told what they were looking at, and with the new Samsung M9500 about to be released the price of the 8500 will surely fall further.
I was the same as you. I purchased the 300 due to the DD5.1 issue on the Playbar. I also had a couple of demos of the 300 in the Bose store and it sounded great. It also looks fantastic which was a bonus.
I had it connected to my home network via WiFi, but for music it sounded very poor. Not a patch on a play 5 or even a play 1. I mostly wanted it to sound great with movies and again it struggled. The sound just lacked precision and warmth. I thought the sound also lacked depth and it was sold on the promise that it projects sound around the room. I didn't find that to be true.
My wife actually said it sounded no better than the tv. I really wanted to like it, but i couldn't get on with it. Maybe I had it all set up wrong, but it wasn't for me. Another factor could be that I don't like to listen to soundbars at higher volumes and the Bose could be one of those that comes to life at higher volumes?
Will one of the stores let you have a home demo to see what you think?
I had it connected to my home network via WiFi, but for music it sounded very poor. Not a patch on a play 5 or even a play 1. I mostly wanted it to sound great with movies and again it struggled. The sound just lacked precision and warmth. I thought the sound also lacked depth and it was sold on the promise that it projects sound around the room. I didn't find that to be true.
My wife actually said it sounded no better than the tv. I really wanted to like it, but i couldn't get on with it. Maybe I had it all set up wrong, but it wasn't for me. Another factor could be that I don't like to listen to soundbars at higher volumes and the Bose could be one of those that comes to life at higher volumes?
Will one of the stores let you have a home demo to see what you think?
I also had a Bose 300 when it first came out. It's not a patch on the Playbar. I thought the sound was a mess and it kept cutting out which required a reset. I returned it after a couple of days. To be fair, I didn't have the bass unit, which is meant to up the sound quite a bit.
Interesting info about the Soundtouch 300, because I am strongly considering that as an alternative to get past this DD5.1 issue. Curious if you had the Bose soundbar connected through WiFi or wired to your home network?
Can you elaborate on what you meant by "the sound was a mess"? I listened to the demo and Best Buy and thought it sounded pretty good - granted that was in a very noisy store.
I've got the Panasonic UB700 and it's a pain that it doesn't decode DTS. I miss that from my PS4 but the picture quality is something else on the player. My TV doesn't output 5.1 so is the option to use a HDMI to optical splitter?
I also had a Bose 300 when it first came out. It's not a patch on the Playbar. I thought the sound was a mess and it kept cutting out which required a reset. I returned it after a couple of days. To be fair, I didn't have the bass unit, which is meant to up the sound quite a bit.
I also had a Bose 300 when it first came out. It's not a patch on the Playbar. I thought the sound was a mess and it kept cutting out which required a reset. I returned it after a couple of days. To be fair, I didn't have the bass unit, which is meant to up the sound quite a bit.
Great news about the confirmation of downsampling on the xbox. I knew it supported HDR10, Dolby Vision would be great but I'm not put out without it. There's always the chance that the new software implementation could be released down the line.
Regarding the Xobox One S - there's a post in this forum (forgotten which thread) that confirms the Xbox can downsample to DD5.1. He even posted the steps you take in the menu to enable this. Also, the Xbox One S does support HDR10. The question is whether it will ever get upgraded to also support DV.
In the meantime, I just got back from Costco where I picked up their version of the Samsung K8500 (UBD-KM85c) player. OI could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere, but they have a very liberal return policy. So, if the M9500 proves to be a big improvement I still have options.
Since purchasing my 4K TV last year this was my first experience seeing real 4K that wasn't being streamed (Netflix, Amazon). All I have to say is WOW!
My TV is a 65" LG OLED (2016). I put in the 4K version of Hacksaw Ridge. The HDR logo popped up when it started the movie, so I know I had everything setup correctly between the player and the TV. I was immediately blown away by the picture quality. Razor sharp and beautifully saturated. This is noticeably a much better picture than I have ever seen from Netflix or Amazon. The detail was amazing.
So, it saddens me that Sonos has stated that they are interested only in customers that stream all of their video content. Calling them "modern users". These users have no idea what they're missing. Heck I wasn't 100% sure about the difference until today.
I went into the Samsung's menu and set the audio to downsample to DD5.1 and it worked great. Under the "About my Sonos" it showed a DD5.1 signal.
So, I guess what I am saying to those of you like me who are trying to find the best player that'll still work with the Playbar, is don't wait too long. You're missing out 😃
In the meantime, I just got back from Costco where I picked up their version of the Samsung K8500 (UBD-KM85c) player. OI could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere, but they have a very liberal return policy. So, if the M9500 proves to be a big improvement I still have options.
Since purchasing my 4K TV last year this was my first experience seeing real 4K that wasn't being streamed (Netflix, Amazon). All I have to say is WOW!
My TV is a 65" LG OLED (2016). I put in the 4K version of Hacksaw Ridge. The HDR logo popped up when it started the movie, so I know I had everything setup correctly between the player and the TV. I was immediately blown away by the picture quality. Razor sharp and beautifully saturated. This is noticeably a much better picture than I have ever seen from Netflix or Amazon. The detail was amazing.
So, it saddens me that Sonos has stated that they are interested only in customers that stream all of their video content. Calling them "modern users". These users have no idea what they're missing. Heck I wasn't 100% sure about the difference until today.
I went into the Samsung's menu and set the audio to downsample to DD5.1 and it worked great. Under the "About my Sonos" it showed a DD5.1 signal.
So, I guess what I am saying to those of you like me who are trying to find the best player that'll still work with the Playbar, is don't wait too long. You're missing out 😃
The Xbox One was an option so the One S might be. Only problem is that I don't think its HDR10 compatible so its only allowing you to watch 4k Blu-rays, which is fine except the whole reason we're jumping through hoops to find the right UHD players is that we're looking for an HDR10 and Dolby Vision compatible UHD player that transcodes DTS to DD 5.1 ... the holy grail for long suffering Sonos Home Theatre owners.
There's nothing mentioned in here about the Xbox One S which I can't seem to find a conclusive answer on. Some people seem to think it does. This would make it one of the least expensive ways to grab a UHD player which works with the Playbar.
Any advice?
Any advice?
Carson - thanks for the update. Yeah, looks like the LG isn't going to transcode to DD5.1 :@
I'm guessing that when they state that it'll "Re-Encode audio outputted for BD-Rom discs with secondary audio and the original audio" is for the owner to hear the secondary audio track on a separate device connected via the optical port. I've noticed recently that Blu-ray discs are now coming with alternate language tracks in another codec. While I haven't seen DTS used for this I've seen many that had Spanish or French on the DD5.1 track. Yup, that's what the DD5.1 codec is now relegated to.
Since my TV supports both HDR10 & DV, I really wanted a player that was going to support both. But looks like Sonos isn't going to permit that.
I have to make a decision soon, as Planet Earth 2 comes out on disc soon and I've been really looking forward to seeing that in 4K. Well, I guess maybe I'll try the Samsung K8500. I'll make sure I can still return it if the M9500 comes out next month and looks to be any better.
I'm guessing that when they state that it'll "Re-Encode audio outputted for BD-Rom discs with secondary audio and the original audio" is for the owner to hear the secondary audio track on a separate device connected via the optical port. I've noticed recently that Blu-ray discs are now coming with alternate language tracks in another codec. While I haven't seen DTS used for this I've seen many that had Spanish or French on the DD5.1 track. Yup, that's what the DD5.1 codec is now relegated to.
Since my TV supports both HDR10 & DV, I really wanted a player that was going to support both. But looks like Sonos isn't going to permit that.
I have to make a decision soon, as Planet Earth 2 comes out on disc soon and I've been really looking forward to seeing that in 4K. Well, I guess maybe I'll try the Samsung K8500. I'll make sure I can still return it if the M9500 comes out next month and looks to be any better.
Theory - We're screwed.
Quickly off topic - Brothers in Arms and So = two of my favorite albums of all time.
Back to topic. I noticed this morning that the LG site has the UP970 product manual available for download. I did so, and went to the audio section. There is a an option under "Digital Output" that is called:
"[DTS Re-Encode]" which had me excited for a moment. But as I think about it, I'm not sure that's what we want. The description is:
"Select if you connect this unit’s HDMI OUT or DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with DTS decoder."
That doesn't sound like what we want. Granted the "Re-Encode" part of the setting is a great. My current Sony (non UHD) bluray has this feature....but it's called "Dolby" Re-Encode.
Ironically, seems like THIS player will transcode Dolby to DTS?? Obviously the opposite of what we want. There's also another note connected to this setting in the manual that says:
"If the [Digital Output] option is set to [DTS Re-Encode], the DTS Re-Encode audio is outputted for BD-ROM discs with secondary audio and the original audio is output for the other discs (like [Auto])"
Not altogether clear what that means. Sanity check here guys - anyone hazard a theory?
Back to topic. I noticed this morning that the LG site has the UP970 product manual available for download. I did so, and went to the audio section. There is a an option under "Digital Output" that is called:
"[DTS Re-Encode]" which had me excited for a moment. But as I think about it, I'm not sure that's what we want. The description is:
"Select if you connect this unit’s HDMI OUT or DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with DTS decoder."
That doesn't sound like what we want. Granted the "Re-Encode" part of the setting is a great. My current Sony (non UHD) bluray has this feature....but it's called "Dolby" Re-Encode.
Ironically, seems like THIS player will transcode Dolby to DTS?? Obviously the opposite of what we want. There's also another note connected to this setting in the manual that says:
"If the [Digital Output] option is set to [DTS Re-Encode], the DTS Re-Encode audio is outputted for BD-ROM discs with secondary audio and the original audio is output for the other discs (like [Auto])"
Not altogether clear what that means. Sanity check here guys - anyone hazard a theory?
My hat is off to you for choosing one of the most musical and expertly produced rock albums of the past 30 years to use as your test disc. I prefer to test with that one, Peter Gabriel's 'So', or Robert Plant's "Pictures at Eleven". All three are flawless and bound to expose cracks in any system. They are also albums I'll listen to all the way through and enjoy, unlike most of the jazz stuff I've used for location tests and demos.
With that out of the way, did you get a chance to play some music that wasn't as well done? I've found that certain music that sounded good on my very neutral two channel system sounded compressed and even lifeless on the Sonos. A large portion of my music is FLAC/ALAC originals and remasters of sixties and seventies music, and most of it sounds very dead through my Sonos system. The newer, the better. Have you experienced this?
Yeah, I am also considering buying a Samsung K8500 to get by until a better model comes along - be it the M9500 or the LG UP970, or ??.
I don't know anything about a new Xbox coming out. I understood that the current Xbox One S did support transcoding to DD5.1. Granted it only supports HDR10 at this time. But, since Dolby Announced they would have a software only version of DV, I thought that it was conceivable that the current Xbox could get an upgrade for this. After all MS announced that Atmos was coming to the Xbox in a future upgrade. Am I missing something with the Xbox?
I don't know anything about a new Xbox coming out. I understood that the current Xbox One S did support transcoding to DD5.1. Granted it only supports HDR10 at this time. But, since Dolby Announced they would have a software only version of DV, I thought that it was conceivable that the current Xbox could get an upgrade for this. After all MS announced that Atmos was coming to the Xbox in a future upgrade. Am I missing something with the Xbox?
Only indication for the new Xbox is "holiday season 2017".
I'm willing to wait a bit to see what to get. Might pick up the old samsung on the cheap just to tide me over with HDR10 till something better comes along.
I'm willing to wait a bit to see what to get. Might pick up the old samsung on the cheap just to tide me over with HDR10 till something better comes along.
Sounds dumb but, I feel like there's an opportunity for Sonos to reach out to one of these suppliers (like Oppo) to see if they can include DTS to Dolby 5.1 transcoding in either their current models through firmware update or in a future step-up model.
I'm just so fed up with having to even deal with this for a $2000 surround system and being told its not a limitation because people don't buy blu-rays anymore... because they do, especially those who plunk down $2000 for a home theatre audio setup.
Any idea when the new XBox is projected to release? Love the idea of Sonos reaching out to a brand with that request. I'm just not sure that they would give Sonos the time of day. Would take big $? Or could the brand be convinced that enough of their audience are also Sonos - and potential Sonos - customers, such that it's also in the brand's best interest. I also have no idea how big of a deal it is to add this (seemingly simple) feature in audio settings.
There's still a small sliver of hope that the new Xbox (Project Scorpio) might double as a decent UHD blu-ray player that can handle HDR10 and DV through a firmware update. Considering all consoles in the past have been able to transcode DTS to DD 5.1 over optical via bitstream-- that could end up being a real option. All this assuming that the picture quality doesn't suck.
Sounds dumb but, I feel like there's an opportunity for Sonos to reach out to one of these suppliers (like Oppo) to see if they can include DTS to Dolby 5.1 transcoding in either their current models through firmware update or in a future step-up model.
I'm just so fed up with having to even deal with this for a $2000 surround system and being told its not a limitation because people don't buy blu-rays anymore... because they do, especially those who plunk down $2000 for a home theatre audio setup.
Sounds dumb but, I feel like there's an opportunity for Sonos to reach out to one of these suppliers (like Oppo) to see if they can include DTS to Dolby 5.1 transcoding in either their current models through firmware update or in a future step-up model.
I'm just so fed up with having to even deal with this for a $2000 surround system and being told its not a limitation because people don't buy blu-rays anymore... because they do, especially those who plunk down $2000 for a home theatre audio setup.
So we're down to the new Samsung.
Why must it be SO difficult???
I've all but given up hope on a DV HDR option for 2017, looks like the first 2017 HDR UHD Bluray player that transcodes DTS to DD on the fly will get my business and i'll have to live with no DV HDR on physical discs when they come out thanks to the dreaded Sonos limitation. But hey-- everyone streams anyway though right?
Message to all - Just seen on Highdefdigest that Samsung have announced the launch date of the new M9500 - April (US) - so hopefully pretty soon after for the UK.
I use Trueplay enabled. Though, since I'm an Android user I was disappointed that Sonos wasn't supporting that OS. In fact none of my friends or family use an apple device that I could borrow. So, I went on ebay and bought an old iPhone 4s for $25. After setting up Trueplay the sound was noticeably improved. It had a fuller and more balanced sound.
Hi Tom, No i haven't had chance to listen to the Bose Soundtouch system yet but am hoping to get proper demo in my local Bose store in the next week. After my Yamaha experience I wasn't intending any more demos but your response has got me intrigued, so i'll give it a go and see what i find? Just out of interest - what setting do you prefer for movies - Trueplay On or Off??
opsman:
Thanks for that information. I was also considering the Yamaha's. What held me off was you really need a square or rectangular room for those to perform at their best.
I agree, I love the way the Sonos system handles both movies and music so well. Previously I had tried a Vizio and a Sony soundbar/sub/surround systems and neither could play music anywhere near as good as Sonos.
Have you had a chance to hear the Bose Soundtouch 300? I listened to the "canned" demo in a Best Buy. They didn't have any rear speakers connected, just the soundbar and sub. But I thought it sounded on par with Sonos with both movies and music reproduction.
Thanks for that information. I was also considering the Yamaha's. What held me off was you really need a square or rectangular room for those to perform at their best.
I agree, I love the way the Sonos system handles both movies and music so well. Previously I had tried a Vizio and a Sony soundbar/sub/surround systems and neither could play music anywhere near as good as Sonos.
Have you had a chance to hear the Bose Soundtouch 300? I listened to the "canned" demo in a Best Buy. They didn't have any rear speakers connected, just the soundbar and sub. But I thought it sounded on par with Sonos with both movies and music reproduction.
I'm going to retract my earlier comments and will NOT be selling my Soundbar & SUB just yet.
Reason - I had a dedicated demo at my local AV/Hi-Fi store on the weekend of the Yamaha YSP-2700 & the new YSP-5600. Both sounded great for movies especially the 5600 (which it should for £1,500 - without sub) but when i got the guy to play some music 'Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms' i was shocked. They have no real musicality and sound horrendously bright, especially the 2700, I was expecting so much more! Even playing around with the DSP controls didn't help. When i also mentioned the fact that i would have to replace my various Play 1's & 3's which i have around the house i was told that i could plug a 'Connect' into the 5600 and use it that way so negating the need to bin all my Sonos products, which i admit got me thinking until i got home.
I played back the same movie tracks that we used in the demo and my Soundbar & Sub sounded amazing. OK not the wider soundstage of both the Yamaha's or the Atmos effects of the 5600 but a much more cohesive sound and, in my opinion, the SUB absolutely killed the REL sub used in the demo. But the piece de resistance - played the same Dire Straits and it was on a different planet - superbly musical, great top end and mid range all underpinned by the Sub, just a fantastic sound.
It's strange - but i've probably been guilty of taking the Sonos sound & quality for granted until demo'ing these other products.
Just got to keep our fingers crossed and hope that the new Samsung M9500 answers all our prayers and is not just an upgrade to include Bluetooth connectivity, with improved PQ over the K8500 and retention of the Bitstream conversion option.
And as always - live in the hope that Sonos will eventually produce a Soundbar with HDMI and DTS ?
Reason - I had a dedicated demo at my local AV/Hi-Fi store on the weekend of the Yamaha YSP-2700 & the new YSP-5600. Both sounded great for movies especially the 5600 (which it should for £1,500 - without sub) but when i got the guy to play some music 'Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms' i was shocked. They have no real musicality and sound horrendously bright, especially the 2700, I was expecting so much more! Even playing around with the DSP controls didn't help. When i also mentioned the fact that i would have to replace my various Play 1's & 3's which i have around the house i was told that i could plug a 'Connect' into the 5600 and use it that way so negating the need to bin all my Sonos products, which i admit got me thinking until i got home.
I played back the same movie tracks that we used in the demo and my Soundbar & Sub sounded amazing. OK not the wider soundstage of both the Yamaha's or the Atmos effects of the 5600 but a much more cohesive sound and, in my opinion, the SUB absolutely killed the REL sub used in the demo. But the piece de resistance - played the same Dire Straits and it was on a different planet - superbly musical, great top end and mid range all underpinned by the Sub, just a fantastic sound.
It's strange - but i've probably been guilty of taking the Sonos sound & quality for granted until demo'ing these other products.
Just got to keep our fingers crossed and hope that the new Samsung M9500 answers all our prayers and is not just an upgrade to include Bluetooth connectivity, with improved PQ over the K8500 and retention of the Bitstream conversion option.
And as always - live in the hope that Sonos will eventually produce a Soundbar with HDMI and DTS ?
It does look like Samsung has two more players coming - m9500 looks like a possible upgrade over than the K8500. Maybe that'll get the job done? Not sure when it's releasing - looks like sometime in May in Europe is all I can tell.
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