With 4K bluray players starting to emerge now, seems we really need to start keeping straight which ones will allow those of us with Sonos Playbars enjoy some semblance of Dolby sound when certain 4K blurays only offer DTS. (Note, I haven't yet purchased a 4K bluray, so am unaware of the typical sound offerings.)
But we went through this once already, for regular bluray players, with many threads devoted to outlining the multiple Samsung models of bluray that decode DTS to Dolby 5.1 (I ended up buying a Sony that also does so). Now let's do the same for 4K players.
So far we have the Samsung UBD K8500 (which seems to clearly decode DTS to dolby.) Now what about the Philips? The Panasonic? The Xbox One S?
Anyone have any idea?
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Regarding the Xobox One S - there's a post in this forum (forgotten which thread) that confirms the Xbox can downsample to DD5.1. He even posted the steps you take in the menu to enable this. Also, the Xbox One S does support HDR10. The question is whether it will ever get upgraded to also support DV.
In the meantime, I just got back from Costco where I picked up their version of the Samsung K8500 (UBD-KM85c) player. OI could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere, but they have a very liberal return policy. So, if the M9500 proves to be a big improvement I still have options.
Since purchasing my 4K TV last year this was my first experience seeing real 4K that wasn't being streamed (Netflix, Amazon). All I have to say is WOW!
My TV is a 65" LG OLED (2016). I put in the 4K version of Hacksaw Ridge. The HDR logo popped up when it started the movie, so I know I had everything setup correctly between the player and the TV. I was immediately blown away by the picture quality. Razor sharp and beautifully saturated. This is noticeably a much better picture than I have ever seen from Netflix or Amazon. The detail was amazing.
So, it saddens me that Sonos has stated that they are interested only in customers that stream all of their video content. Calling them "modern users". These users have no idea what they're missing. Heck I wasn't 100% sure about the difference until today.
I went into the Samsung's menu and set the audio to downsample to DD5.1 and it worked great. Under the "About my Sonos" it showed a DD5.1 signal.
So, I guess what I am saying to those of you like me who are trying to find the best player that'll still work with the Playbar, is don't wait too long. You're missing out 😃
In the meantime, I just got back from Costco where I picked up their version of the Samsung K8500 (UBD-KM85c) player. OI could have gotten it cheaper elsewhere, but they have a very liberal return policy. So, if the M9500 proves to be a big improvement I still have options.
Since purchasing my 4K TV last year this was my first experience seeing real 4K that wasn't being streamed (Netflix, Amazon). All I have to say is WOW!
My TV is a 65" LG OLED (2016). I put in the 4K version of Hacksaw Ridge. The HDR logo popped up when it started the movie, so I know I had everything setup correctly between the player and the TV. I was immediately blown away by the picture quality. Razor sharp and beautifully saturated. This is noticeably a much better picture than I have ever seen from Netflix or Amazon. The detail was amazing.
So, it saddens me that Sonos has stated that they are interested only in customers that stream all of their video content. Calling them "modern users". These users have no idea what they're missing. Heck I wasn't 100% sure about the difference until today.
I went into the Samsung's menu and set the audio to downsample to DD5.1 and it worked great. Under the "About my Sonos" it showed a DD5.1 signal.
So, I guess what I am saying to those of you like me who are trying to find the best player that'll still work with the Playbar, is don't wait too long. You're missing out 😃
I completely understand folks who want to dump their playbar (and potentially sub) due to this issue. I am in the same boat in terms of frustration - but I'm "all in" on Sonos products in my house. A mix of play 3s, play 1s, two playbars and a home theater set up. I love the system. Love the speakers. Love the music. The TV support, obviously, has its faults. That said, the playbar (when working as intended) is equally awesome as all the other speakers. So when I look at the big picture, the playbar in my home theater will be used mostly for TV (my tv passes 5.1), so no problem there. With apple tv, no problem there. With streaming from Amazon, no problem there. And with blurays and 4K discs. And there, some have native dolby audio (no problem there), but some have only DTS. My point is, of all the sound sources, the "problem" is just a portion. And to me, personally, not worth dumping my playbar entirely, because of a "portion". Let alone, dump my playbar, sub and other Sonos components.
Just going to wait it out for the right 4K bluray player that transcodes - and problem will be solved. I did the same thing back with regular blurays. I now have a Sony player that transcodes, so there's no issue at all there. It's really just a need for the right player (elusive right now!)
Just going to wait it out for the right 4K bluray player that transcodes - and problem will be solved. I did the same thing back with regular blurays. I now have a Sony player that transcodes, so there's no issue at all there. It's really just a need for the right player (elusive right now!)
So we're down to the new Samsung.
Why must it be SO difficult???
Theory - We're screwed.
I started watching Planet Earth 2 UHD on Sunday with my Samsung player and it looks and sounds amazing. No Atmos but a DTS HD MA 5.1 soundtrack that the Samsung handles very nicely down converted through the playbar. My advice is you can read about the new players/new features and sit on the fence all day, or you can pick up the Samsung (cheap enough at the moment) and experience 4k/HDR and 5.1 through the playbar right now (I think Samsung have also just issued a new firmware update for Netflix HDR, with Amazon HDR already available).
I'd be surprised if most people could tell the difference between the Samsung and other players, if they weren't told what they were looking at, and with the new Samsung M9500 about to be released the price of the 8500 will surely fall further.
I'd be surprised if most people could tell the difference between the Samsung and other players, if they weren't told what they were looking at, and with the new Samsung M9500 about to be released the price of the 8500 will surely fall further.
[quote=RO53BEN]I finally bit the bullet last weekend /quote]
Understandably so. If I purely needed just a 5.1 homecinema set I would have gone for a similar solution. However since I have built-in speakers in my kitchen, roof terrace and bathroom, that now connect through Connect-amps, for me Sonos is still the best solution. My livingroom and kitchen are integrated, and the sound and ease of use are just magnificent if you listen to music a lot.
When it gets to the home cinema experience, it is surely frustrating that the playbar is so sub-par. They should add a HDMI audio entrance and support for Atmos and DTS. Until then, I would not recommend Sonos as a home cinema solution.
Understandably so. If I purely needed just a 5.1 homecinema set I would have gone for a similar solution. However since I have built-in speakers in my kitchen, roof terrace and bathroom, that now connect through Connect-amps, for me Sonos is still the best solution. My livingroom and kitchen are integrated, and the sound and ease of use are just magnificent if you listen to music a lot.
When it gets to the home cinema experience, it is surely frustrating that the playbar is so sub-par. They should add a HDMI audio entrance and support for Atmos and DTS. Until then, I would not recommend Sonos as a home cinema solution.
So if you're going 4K Blu-ray and you're using a Playbar, go with the Samsung and avoid the Philips.
Just got Samsung M9500 but I can't get DTS converted to Dolby Digital 5.1. 😞
I have a Samsung 4k TV (KS800) and I am trying to make this work.
I am using Planet earth II (4k) disk that has DTS audio, hoping to see it converted to dolby digital 5.1 but even after chainging settings on M9500 still no luck :@
My settings on M9500 :-
audio output format to Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D)
PCM Downsampling - YES
Dynamic range control - auto
Downmixing mode - Normal stereo
DTO neo - off
This is really frustrating ...
So i finally got the DTS converted to DD 5.1. I am going to write down steps here that worked for me with Samsung KS8000 + Samsung UBD-M9500
1. Unplug everything, shut down your TV, SONOS and blue ray player.
2. Make sure you have the setting for audio output to - Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby D)
3. Connect HDMI from your blue ray player to HDMI on one connect box. (Do not use the ARC HDMI port).
4. To verify that you are getting DD 5.1, play a blue ray with DTS format and look at the information being displayed. (on your blue ray player remote do tools -> information). It should show you video / audio info, and hopefully you will see the dolby digital 5.1 sign. You can also verify the DD signal from your sonos app.
P.S:- I should have done my research before buying SONOS system. To any one out there looking to buy it I would strongly suggest NOT to buy it to use it as home theater system.
Userlevel 7
+21
With the cheapest 4K Blu-Ray players still costing $300 US right now, it doesn't surprise me that not many people are watching them yet.
Especially when there are plenty of alternate sources for streaming/download (http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/where-to-find-4k-movies-and-content)
Personally, I'd wait for the 4K Blu-Ray players to come down in price in the next 2 years. Start collecting the movies now though, if you plan to upgrade... the 4K versions sometimes include the HD Blu-Ray so you can watch now, and might even have a digital copy too.
Especially when there are plenty of alternate sources for streaming/download (http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/where-to-find-4k-movies-and-content)
Personally, I'd wait for the 4K Blu-Ray players to come down in price in the next 2 years. Start collecting the movies now though, if you plan to upgrade... the 4K versions sometimes include the HD Blu-Ray so you can watch now, and might even have a digital copy too.
Userlevel 1
+2
I picked up the Philips 4K UHD player today and hooked it up to my LG OLED UHD TV and while Mad Max worked just fine, The LEGO Movie had no sound. Had to change the audio for all streams to Linear PCM which downmixes to 2.0 on the Playbar and shows as unsupported within the Sonos app.
Disappointing but not unexpected given past experiences with the Playbar. Made even more frustrating since the OLED LG passes 5.1 to the Playbar flawlessly.
Going to return it and get the Samsung which appears to decode properly.
Disappointing but not unexpected given past experiences with the Playbar. Made even more frustrating since the OLED LG passes 5.1 to the Playbar flawlessly.
Going to return it and get the Samsung which appears to decode properly.
Userlevel 1
+2
I setup the Samsung Ultra Blu-ray player and can confirm that you can set it to convert DTS-HD to DD 5.1 which the LG TV is correctly passing to the Playbar.
So if you're going 4K Blu-ray and you're using a Playbar, go with the Samsung and avoid the Philips.
So if you're going 4K Blu-ray and you're using a Playbar, go with the Samsung and avoid the Philips.
Wow, what an incredibly annoying website to find information on.
Carl, I tried to post a link to Samsung's online manual, but the settings on this board won't allow me to do so, but I looked up the instructions for the K8500, and this is what I think you need to do, especially step 7:
1) In the Home Screen, using the arrow buttons on your remote, navigate to and select Settings then press the OK button.
2) Select Sound and press OK on your remote.
3) Select Digital Output.
4) PCM is the default setting compatible with most TV's and receivers. To select this feature press OK on your remote.
5) Select Bitstream (Unprocessed), if you want your receiver to decode all the audio.
6 )Select Bitstream (Re-encoded DTS) to have the original audio re-encoded into DTS.
7) Select Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby Digital) to have the original audio re-encoded into Dolby Digital.
Carl, I tried to post a link to Samsung's online manual, but the settings on this board won't allow me to do so, but I looked up the instructions for the K8500, and this is what I think you need to do, especially step 7:
1) In the Home Screen, using the arrow buttons on your remote, navigate to and select Settings then press the OK button.
2) Select Sound and press OK on your remote.
3) Select Digital Output.
4) PCM is the default setting compatible with most TV's and receivers. To select this feature press OK on your remote.
5) Select Bitstream (Unprocessed), if you want your receiver to decode all the audio.
6 )Select Bitstream (Re-encoded DTS) to have the original audio re-encoded into DTS.
7) Select Bitstream (Re-encoded Dolby Digital) to have the original audio re-encoded into Dolby Digital.
Has there been any news on whether the new Oppo UDP-203 will convert DTS to DD? I've looked at the manual and it doesn't seem like it does, which is unfortunate given the huge emphasis on the audio options available from that set.
Really hoping there's a legit option for 4k HDR10 and Dolby Vision in 2017 for us Sonos Home Theatre users... honestly the DTS to DD conversion thing is such a huge shame on an otherwise excellent system. I refuse to accept that I'll have to listen to stereo sound on a $1500+ system when watching a Dolby Vision blu-ray!
Really hoping there's a legit option for 4k HDR10 and Dolby Vision in 2017 for us Sonos Home Theatre users... honestly the DTS to DD conversion thing is such a huge shame on an otherwise excellent system. I refuse to accept that I'll have to listen to stereo sound on a $1500+ system when watching a Dolby Vision blu-ray!
Really hoping there's a legit option for 4k HDR10 and Dolby Vision in 2017 for us Sonos Home Theatre users... honestly the DTS to DD conversion thing is such a huge shame on an otherwise excellent system. I refuse to accept that I'll have to listen to stereo sound on a $1500+ system when watching a Dolby Vision blu-ray!
I agree completely.
I've been considering the Oppo UDP-203 and was wondering if the audio limitations with the Playbar would be an issue. I've emailed Oppo support asking about this. I'll post it here if I hear back from them.
Really hoping there's a legit option for 4k HDR10 and Dolby Vision in 2017 for us Sonos Home Theatre users... honestly the DTS to DD conversion thing is such a huge shame on an otherwise excellent system. I refuse to accept that I'll have to listen to stereo sound on a $1500+ system when watching a Dolby Vision blu-ray!
The Oppo does NOT convert DTS to DD. I contacted the company and they responded.
At this point, the only 4k bluray player that converts is still the Samsung. Hoping the new Sony will.
A UHD player announced at CES this year, the LG UP970 will support HDR & Dolby Vision. I'm going to wait for more detailsto surface and hopefully it'll be able to downmix to DD 5.1.
Sonos, if you read this, we're getting tired of doing the Dolby Digital dance and want a Playbar that supports modern standards!
Yes, the Sony UPB-X800 is one to keep an eye on and see if it will do DD5.1. But, Sony only supports HDR10. While the LG UP970 does both HDR10 & Dolby Vision (like the Oppo 203). So, I'm hoping when the full specs are released it will downmix to DD5.1.
I have a funny feeling the LG won't do it - but just a gut. Seems that only Sony and Samsung recognize this feature. We'll see though - sounds as though LG will be released sooner than the Sony. The thing about this feature is, it's so obscure and almost hidden, may not even be noticeable reading the specs/manual. Someone will have to buy the player and try it to see if we get the conversion to 5.1.
Well, here we go - Sony is taking pre-orders for the UPB-X800. Can't wait to determine if it will transcode DTS to Dolby...
+1
Hi tom12...I got my upb x800 today and it pains me to share that there doesn't seem to be any dts to dd conversion.
Carson - did you get yours? Am I totally missing an option to allow this?
Worse still, the player is definitely a cut above the Samsung K8500. Build is solid, it's quick, and the picture is beautiful. Close in quality to the Oppo, making it a terrific bargain - but not a viable option for Sonos users.
With Sonos, seemingly, stuck in the audio codec dark ages, it's just becoming more and more painful to stay loyal.
Sonos - just an hdmi breakout box - it could change our world!
Carson - did you get yours? Am I totally missing an option to allow this?
Worse still, the player is definitely a cut above the Samsung K8500. Build is solid, it's quick, and the picture is beautiful. Close in quality to the Oppo, making it a terrific bargain - but not a viable option for Sonos users.
With Sonos, seemingly, stuck in the audio codec dark ages, it's just becoming more and more painful to stay loyal.
Sonos - just an hdmi breakout box - it could change our world!
I can confirm that the Panasonic 900 doesn't work and I'm livid because my LG tv optical out port broke within seconds of trying to link it up, so I can only use a splitter and cable into the blu-ray and other devices. None of my 4K discs have any sound other than through the tv as they are all 7.1. I've only just finished the Sonos setup before the price hike - so 6 Play 1s throughout the house for wireless music and one Playbar, plus all the Flexson stands and extension cables. So I have brilliant Sonos sound, brilliant picture on Panasonic, but not sound on 4K movies. Gutted.
Tried reaching out to LG with this question about the transcoding feature on their upcoming player. (Might as well try to find some info while waiting for the release right?) The discussion, as you might guess, wasn't especially helpful. ("No full specs available yet."). I did ask if LG bluray players historically have this feature, and the answer I got was no. So, I continue to have no expectations for this. What's our next possibility after LG? Isn't samsung supposed to be coming out with another 4K player or two? I'm not going to get my hopes up for the other Sony (crazy price aside), since this one doesn't have it. Likewise, the less expensive Panasonic coming (why would that have the feature if this one doesn't.) At this point, just looking to a higher quality Samsung as a last resort?
I'm going to retract my earlier comments and will NOT be selling my Soundbar & SUB just yet.
Reason - I had a dedicated demo at my local AV/Hi-Fi store on the weekend of the Yamaha YSP-2700 & the new YSP-5600. Both sounded great for movies especially the 5600 (which it should for £1,500 - without sub) but when i got the guy to play some music 'Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms' i was shocked. They have no real musicality and sound horrendously bright, especially the 2700, I was expecting so much more! Even playing around with the DSP controls didn't help. When i also mentioned the fact that i would have to replace my various Play 1's & 3's which i have around the house i was told that i could plug a 'Connect' into the 5600 and use it that way so negating the need to bin all my Sonos products, which i admit got me thinking until i got home.
I played back the same movie tracks that we used in the demo and my Soundbar & Sub sounded amazing. OK not the wider soundstage of both the Yamaha's or the Atmos effects of the 5600 but a much more cohesive sound and, in my opinion, the SUB absolutely killed the REL sub used in the demo. But the piece de resistance - played the same Dire Straits and it was on a different planet - superbly musical, great top end and mid range all underpinned by the Sub, just a fantastic sound.
It's strange - but i've probably been guilty of taking the Sonos sound & quality for granted until demo'ing these other products.
Just got to keep our fingers crossed and hope that the new Samsung M9500 answers all our prayers and is not just an upgrade to include Bluetooth connectivity, with improved PQ over the K8500 and retention of the Bitstream conversion option.
And as always - live in the hope that Sonos will eventually produce a Soundbar with HDMI and DTS ?
Reason - I had a dedicated demo at my local AV/Hi-Fi store on the weekend of the Yamaha YSP-2700 & the new YSP-5600. Both sounded great for movies especially the 5600 (which it should for £1,500 - without sub) but when i got the guy to play some music 'Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms' i was shocked. They have no real musicality and sound horrendously bright, especially the 2700, I was expecting so much more! Even playing around with the DSP controls didn't help. When i also mentioned the fact that i would have to replace my various Play 1's & 3's which i have around the house i was told that i could plug a 'Connect' into the 5600 and use it that way so negating the need to bin all my Sonos products, which i admit got me thinking until i got home.
I played back the same movie tracks that we used in the demo and my Soundbar & Sub sounded amazing. OK not the wider soundstage of both the Yamaha's or the Atmos effects of the 5600 but a much more cohesive sound and, in my opinion, the SUB absolutely killed the REL sub used in the demo. But the piece de resistance - played the same Dire Straits and it was on a different planet - superbly musical, great top end and mid range all underpinned by the Sub, just a fantastic sound.
It's strange - but i've probably been guilty of taking the Sonos sound & quality for granted until demo'ing these other products.
Just got to keep our fingers crossed and hope that the new Samsung M9500 answers all our prayers and is not just an upgrade to include Bluetooth connectivity, with improved PQ over the K8500 and retention of the Bitstream conversion option.
And as always - live in the hope that Sonos will eventually produce a Soundbar with HDMI and DTS ?
Message to all - Just seen on Highdefdigest that Samsung have announced the launch date of the new M9500 - April (US) - so hopefully pretty soon after for the UK.
Only indication for the new Xbox is "holiday season 2017".
I'm willing to wait a bit to see what to get. Might pick up the old samsung on the cheap just to tide me over with HDR10 till something better comes along.
I'm willing to wait a bit to see what to get. Might pick up the old samsung on the cheap just to tide me over with HDR10 till something better comes along.
Quickly off topic - Brothers in Arms and So = two of my favorite albums of all time.
Back to topic. I noticed this morning that the LG site has the UP970 product manual available for download. I did so, and went to the audio section. There is a an option under "Digital Output" that is called:
"[DTS Re-Encode]" which had me excited for a moment. But as I think about it, I'm not sure that's what we want. The description is:
"Select if you connect this unit’s HDMI OUT or DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with DTS decoder."
That doesn't sound like what we want. Granted the "Re-Encode" part of the setting is a great. My current Sony (non UHD) bluray has this feature....but it's called "Dolby" Re-Encode.
Ironically, seems like THIS player will transcode Dolby to DTS?? Obviously the opposite of what we want. There's also another note connected to this setting in the manual that says:
"If the [Digital Output] option is set to [DTS Re-Encode], the DTS Re-Encode audio is outputted for BD-ROM discs with secondary audio and the original audio is output for the other discs (like [Auto])"
Not altogether clear what that means. Sanity check here guys - anyone hazard a theory?
Back to topic. I noticed this morning that the LG site has the UP970 product manual available for download. I did so, and went to the audio section. There is a an option under "Digital Output" that is called:
"[DTS Re-Encode]" which had me excited for a moment. But as I think about it, I'm not sure that's what we want. The description is:
"Select if you connect this unit’s HDMI OUT or DIGITAL AUDIO OUT jack to a device with DTS decoder."
That doesn't sound like what we want. Granted the "Re-Encode" part of the setting is a great. My current Sony (non UHD) bluray has this feature....but it's called "Dolby" Re-Encode.
Ironically, seems like THIS player will transcode Dolby to DTS?? Obviously the opposite of what we want. There's also another note connected to this setting in the manual that says:
"If the [Digital Output] option is set to [DTS Re-Encode], the DTS Re-Encode audio is outputted for BD-ROM discs with secondary audio and the original audio is output for the other discs (like [Auto])"
Not altogether clear what that means. Sanity check here guys - anyone hazard a theory?
Carson - thanks for the update. Yeah, looks like the LG isn't going to transcode to DD5.1 :@
I'm guessing that when they state that it'll "Re-Encode audio outputted for BD-Rom discs with secondary audio and the original audio" is for the owner to hear the secondary audio track on a separate device connected via the optical port. I've noticed recently that Blu-ray discs are now coming with alternate language tracks in another codec. While I haven't seen DTS used for this I've seen many that had Spanish or French on the DD5.1 track. Yup, that's what the DD5.1 codec is now relegated to.
Since my TV supports both HDR10 & DV, I really wanted a player that was going to support both. But looks like Sonos isn't going to permit that.
I have to make a decision soon, as Planet Earth 2 comes out on disc soon and I've been really looking forward to seeing that in 4K. Well, I guess maybe I'll try the Samsung K8500. I'll make sure I can still return it if the M9500 comes out next month and looks to be any better.
I'm guessing that when they state that it'll "Re-Encode audio outputted for BD-Rom discs with secondary audio and the original audio" is for the owner to hear the secondary audio track on a separate device connected via the optical port. I've noticed recently that Blu-ray discs are now coming with alternate language tracks in another codec. While I haven't seen DTS used for this I've seen many that had Spanish or French on the DD5.1 track. Yup, that's what the DD5.1 codec is now relegated to.
Since my TV supports both HDR10 & DV, I really wanted a player that was going to support both. But looks like Sonos isn't going to permit that.
I have to make a decision soon, as Planet Earth 2 comes out on disc soon and I've been really looking forward to seeing that in 4K. Well, I guess maybe I'll try the Samsung K8500. I'll make sure I can still return it if the M9500 comes out next month and looks to be any better.
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