Is the new community your idea of an improvement? It is anything but an improvement. Several important threads I started have lost content. When I try and type a response, I can't see the entire response I am creating--it only allows me to see a couple of lines at a time.
I am a long-time Sonos user, and I feel that I have been slapped in the face. Sonos no longer has my endorsement.
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Hi Kumar! Most of the time I was on Ask and usually only went to the "real" forum when I was looking for something or other I couldn't find on Ask. Looking for a ratty answer or explanation, so to speak. It didn't take me long to figure out where the vast information carriers lived. Thanks ratty for helping me out a couple of times without you knowing about it.
But then, post asteroid so to speak, I ran into the exact same problems as Jim here above did. My bookmark went to the page where I could see what was new and follow what looked interesting to me. Easily and pleasantly doing my daily round. That easy way seems to have vanished and I really don't believe it is ever coming back.
But then, post asteroid so to speak, I ran into the exact same problems as Jim here above did. My bookmark went to the page where I could see what was new and follow what looked interesting to me. Easily and pleasantly doing my daily round. That easy way seems to have vanished and I really don't believe it is ever coming back.
Yup, they flushed continental Europe and large parts of the Americas down the loo, just like that. But then, I still get email from that rather annoying Dutch localised Sonos site trying to sell me stuff. In Dutch, even when I set my preferred language to ze Queen's English because of the rest of the household here.
So they're localising Sales what I definitively don't want, while ditching "foreign" discussions over here. The other way around please, Sonos.
So they're localising Sales what I definitively don't want, while ditching "foreign" discussions over here. The other way around please, Sonos.
Quite right.
This change is a corporate decision made by Sonos executive management, that Sonos staff that post here have to defend as best as they can, and accommodate user needs to the extent possible within the straitjacket of the new platform - executive management will never come here and take any flak. Those of us forum people that will continue, will do so in spite of the change, and in time one can get used to anything.
In many ways, the change is on the same lines as that for the new handheld device controllers, the difference being that the easier to use PC/Mac controllers are still around. How much longer, I can't say, I am sure their clock is ticking too.
I had said this on the forum too - competitors are struggling to catch up with the total package of services that Sonos offers, and the forum was an important part of these. One way Sonos can make things easier for competition is via self inflicted damage, and I have seen executive management do this in other companies in different fields, in a hubris driven attempt to make a mark and impress the boss.
PS: Hermie, the post asteroid comment was hilarious - and unfortunately, apt.
Because we're no longer their target audience. We have their kit. They're looking for new blood to buy more stuff, and what better way to attract them than to chase us out with this wreck of a site. The new crowd won't know any different.
Or maybe time for a new breed of dinosaur? :-)
I have to say that I find this all very disappointing... Not surprising, but disappointing nevertheless...
It's early days yet, so maybe it will improve. However, if this site doesn't improve dramatically, then there's no reason why we couldn't set up another user-driven site if we want to. This sort of thing is fairly cheap these days, and the old style forums type interface is available off the shelf - I had a play with one a couple of years back, and it didn't look too difficult to implement.
We'd lose the history, of course, but as long as enough of the 'old guard' were on board, it could work well.
I think I am close to coming to a place where I will come here only to troubleshoot my system whenever it develops a glitch, till I find that the response from Sonos Support is faster than what I get here. That hasn't been the case so far, but there is no knowing this will remain the case in future.
Userlevel 7
+26
With as eclectic a community as we have here we knew we'd be getting a lot of feedback on many features from all sorts of categories, be it design related, or functionality. A single community for everyone is a challenging thing to build, and we're working to make that a reality. There are lots of features that we would love to incorporate, and online communities evolve over time, so we're excited to see what we can do here with this one.
We're thrilled to have so many active and enthusiastic members here. Again, we appreciate the feedback and the suggestions so please keep them coming. If there's specific features you want to suggest, a new thread or posting over on the wish list thread would be helpful to everyone.
Thanks!
[quote=amun] there's no reason why we couldn't set up another user-driven site if we want to.
We'd lose the history, of course, but as long as enough of the 'old guard' were on board, it could work well.
That's an intriguing line of thinking. The Sonos user universe would not be the losers as long as they had an easy way to locate this from outside the Sonos site, and that is important because the idea is to give better service to all, not just those that were forum users. But short term, there would be an adverse effect if forum expertise does a mass exit.
The only people that would be really unhappy with this are Sonos managers that want to be masters of the universe.
The challenge is the housekeeping and keeping away the spammers.
We'd lose the history, of course, but as long as enough of the 'old guard' were on board, it could work well.
That's an intriguing line of thinking. The Sonos user universe would not be the losers as long as they had an easy way to locate this from outside the Sonos site, and that is important because the idea is to give better service to all, not just those that were forum users. But short term, there would be an adverse effect if forum expertise does a mass exit.
The only people that would be really unhappy with this are Sonos managers that want to be masters of the universe.
The challenge is the housekeeping and keeping away the spammers.
There would be a number of challenges - we'd be starting from scratch, after all...
However, it's all do-able, with sufficient will and support.
A huge functional DISadvantage is this that comes up every time I click the link in an email to get to the topic. And it doesn't just affect me.
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+18
You're welcome reddot and thanks for sharing a bit more about what your experience on the site is like. What's your monitor resolution? I'd expect you to see more than 1/3 of the page as being content. For example, I'm on 1680x1050 and in a browser window which is about 2/3 of my desktop, I see 2/3 of the page as text.
To answer your question, changing the forum layout is likely possible, but I don't want to say it would be easy. I'm very much not a design expert, but we did take a look at the Docker forum buzz mentioned earlier in the thread since it's being compared often. They're using 70% of the space in a window and we're using 62%, so I don't think the difference quite as pronounced as I've read in some of the comments. I'm sure it's more than just percentages used though, so if anyone has some additional comment on it, please do share.
To answer your question, changing the forum layout is likely possible, but I don't want to say it would be easy. I'm very much not a design expert, but we did take a look at the Docker forum buzz mentioned earlier in the thread since it's being compared often. They're using 70% of the space in a window and we're using 62%, so I don't think the difference quite as pronounced as I've read in some of the comments. I'm sure it's more than just percentages used though, so if anyone has some additional comment on it, please do share.
Thanks! I was likely being a little pessimistic. In doing a more precise measurement, it's 50% of the screen. The 13" Macbook pro runs at 1440 x 900.
I also see strange blocky artifacts when writing a comment. Image below.
Have a good weekend.
I also see strange blocky artifacts when writing a comment. Image below.
Have a good weekend.
The problem of space is compounded by the very strange mix of font sizes. Why do quotes, signature lines and headings such as "2 Attachments" and "Reply" need such a large font? Other than the strangely shrunken breadcrumbs at the top, the smallest font is that of the actual post text, which is precisely where the eye is trying to focus. Zooming of course is half a solution, but that compounds the problem of low on-screen information density.
And as for the font size in the box in which I'm trying to type, things are even more of a struggle. Given the strange decision to hide the BBcodes behind a help button it's little wonder that posters are frequently messing up the quote tags, for example by failing to notice a missing bracket. It's almost as if someone designing the thing said "Bother! We forgot to make the edit pane resizeable, let's just make the text smaller". (At this point I'd add a wink smiley but they're so small I can't reliably make out which is which.) Why not at least add a preview facility, at a reasonable font size, for proof reading.
John M, I appreciate your participation in this thread but I have to agree with BarryM that a list of planned short- and medium-term fixes is pretty essential to try and head off the kind of sentiment expressed here.
Userlevel 5
+11
I bet this thread is tough reading for the new admins.
Sorry to add another negative post here, but I also am struggling a little. My suggestions for improvement would be:
1. A "New Posts" button as per every other forum I use, which lists the threads with simple information showing thread title, started by, latest post by, total number of posts/reads and an indication on if I have posted in the thread already.
2. Easier to read pages. I also am seeing far too much white - it is hard on the eyes and doesn't make me want to stay here reading for long.
3. Make it easier to find. I'm a two or three times a month user and this was my first visit since the aforementioned asteroid. It took me a while to find the right link and work out which email I needed to use to sign in. I think I used to sign in with my username?
Keep it up, I have seen IT types with major forum changes struggling under the pressure, but IMO if you are open about resolutions, then most will understand.
Sorry to add another negative post here, but I also am struggling a little. My suggestions for improvement would be:
1. A "New Posts" button as per every other forum I use, which lists the threads with simple information showing thread title, started by, latest post by, total number of posts/reads and an indication on if I have posted in the thread already.
2. Easier to read pages. I also am seeing far too much white - it is hard on the eyes and doesn't make me want to stay here reading for long.
3. Make it easier to find. I'm a two or three times a month user and this was my first visit since the aforementioned asteroid. It took me a while to find the right link and work out which email I needed to use to sign in. I think I used to sign in with my username?
Keep it up, I have seen IT types with major forum changes struggling under the pressure, but IMO if you are open about resolutions, then most will understand.
+18
The problem of space is compounded by the very strange mix of font sizes. Why do quotes, signature lines and headings such as "2 Attachments" and "Reply" need such a large font? Other than the strangely shrunken breadcrumbs at the top, the smallest font is that of the actual post text, which is precisely where the eye is trying to focus. Zooming of course is half a solution, but that compounds the problem of low on-screen information density.
And as for the font size in the box in which I'm trying to type, things are even more of a struggle. Given the strange decision to hide the BBcodes behind a help button it's little wonder that posters are frequently messing up the quote tags, for example by failing to notice a missing bracket. It's almost as if someone designing the thing said "Bother! We forgot to make the edit pane resizeable, let's just make the text smaller". (At this point I'd add a wink smiley but they're so small I can't reliably make out which is which.) Why not at least add a preview facility, at a reasonable font size, for proof reading.
John M, I appreciate your participation in this thread but I have to agree with BarryM that a list of planned short- and medium-term fixes is pretty essential to try and head off the kind of sentiment expressed here.
This is very good, very specific feedback. We're going to review as part of a larger feedback round-up this week and we'll communicate back here as part of that effort. Thank you for sharing,
There will always be teething problems, and shooting the messenger is not helpful at all. But Ask ran in parallel with the 10 year old Forums for some 3 years. Despite all that accumulated history this board appears to have been crafted in haste without sufficient consideration of typical regular user interactions.
To judge by the corresponding section over there, the replacement TomTom forums evidently had just as troubled a genesis.
Forums software is of course quite different from that in the actual Sonos Controllers and Players, but a casual visitor could be forgiven for associating one experience with expectations of the other. That's the last thing we want to have happen.
What we're working towards with this change is a solution that satisfies both groups.
Good to hear that. I am finding that the experience here isn't very enjoyable though, so I will take a break and see if things are any different and less of a work in process when I drop back in next - unless I am forced to earlier for some troubleshooting assistance.
Your profile. Click on your avatar or username.
+18
After getting my initial questions somewhat answered, I left off the forum for a month. When I came back, I couldn't find the forum. I searched all over the site and couldn't remember exactly how I got into those forums. There was some link for an eye-searing, hard to read thing called the "Community" which looked nothing like the forum. I finally figured that I must have lost my login somehow and tried to re-register. I ended up getting sent to some kind of outside site, which proudly proclaimed that I was now a member of some "family of sites", that my information would be spread across these sites, one login for everything, and that they would be happy to use my information and posts for their own benefit. In short, Discus all over again.
I complained loudly to both Sonos and the other party. I said that I signed up under Sonos but ended up farmed out to this other site and never had a chance to read or approve of their misuse of my information. I demanded that the account be closed, deleted, and excised from any backups. Allegedly this was done.
Now, here we are on yet another forum, and this one is a "community" (I dread buzzwords, whether its in the real world or online). Its "powered by" some new company, InSided. Is this simply software that replaced vBulletin? Or have the forums been moved into "the cloud", and the whole thing is a redirect to their servers? I would hope Sonos has still kept some control over their forum, but I have no idea. We've been migrated, but there has been no disclosure about who controls our info. I certainly hope that InSidious, or whatever they're called, is simply a server software provider and not that other bunch under a different name.
So.. who has our info?
Hi Proton, thanks for raising this issue here. Privacy is usually at the front of my mind when signing up for a new site as well, so I share your concerns. I am contacting InSided to get you a clear statement on how your information is used (or not used) since I want to make sure you get the answer you deserve. In the mean time, you can review the Sonos privacy policy here:
http://www.sonos.com/legal/privacy
The editor is very limited. Perhaps this is just another aspect of "social" platforms, which tend to encourage pithy, limited engagements. The old Forums editor was very useful, but even this was throttled a bit after the text box resize drag corner was removed.
Not so convenient, one could use a more capable 3rd party editor, then drag and drop into this text box. But this is not so great for the limited BB codes.
"Privacy"? Forget it!
Not so convenient, one could use a more capable 3rd party editor, then drag and drop into this text box. But this is not so great for the limited BB codes.
"Privacy"? Forget it!
Hi Proton, thanks for raising this issue here. Privacy is usually at the front of my mind when signing up for a new site as well, so I share your concerns. I am contacting InSided to get you a clear statement on how your information is used (or not used) since I want to make sure you get the answer you deserve. In the mean time, you can review the Sonos privacy policy here:
http://www.sonos.com/legal/privacy
John, thanks for the response. I appreciate you contacting InSidious on our behalf, but there is one part of my post that you should be able to answer without their involvement: where is this forum really located? Is the current forum simply software that Sonos is using, on Sonos company servers? Or is this whole forum really being served by InSided from a remote location and the Sonos site is merely a front end? You should be able to ask your company webmaster or IT person to get this answer.
Thanks.
BTW - can we do something about this non-expandable 7 line high text entry window for posts? Wow, this is aggravating.
+18
Hi everyone,
As many of you have requested, we want to provide you with better insight into what feedback from this space has been heard and what we're focused on changing over the next few months. Our focus for the last two weeks since launch has been on bugs or other functionality problems but we're also collecting and reviewing your comments on the features of this site.
We've made two specific feedback threads in the new community feedback forum here to address two trending topics, the reply field and the new posts display mode. We hope that splitting into some specific areas of discussion will allow us to consolidate everyone's viewpoint, and also give you a central place to check the status of the requests. These two threads are by no means the only feedback we're looking at, but for now these areas will be our starting points:
New Community Feedback Topic: New Posts Display
New Community Feedback Topic: Reply Field
Please take a look and add your comments. If you have any general comments on this approach, please share them in a reply here.
As many of you have requested, we want to provide you with better insight into what feedback from this space has been heard and what we're focused on changing over the next few months. Our focus for the last two weeks since launch has been on bugs or other functionality problems but we're also collecting and reviewing your comments on the features of this site.
We've made two specific feedback threads in the new community feedback forum here to address two trending topics, the reply field and the new posts display mode. We hope that splitting into some specific areas of discussion will allow us to consolidate everyone's viewpoint, and also give you a central place to check the status of the requests. These two threads are by no means the only feedback we're looking at, but for now these areas will be our starting points:
New Community Feedback Topic: New Posts Display
New Community Feedback Topic: Reply Field
Please take a look and add your comments. If you have any general comments on this approach, please share them in a reply here.
Can I put in a plea for easier navigation between pages of a thread, byputting the links to page numbers at both top and bottom of the page? This would mean not having to scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page before choosing which page number to navigate to.
Thanks,
Steve.
Thanks,
Steve.
Ok, I have given the new forum / community a bit of a go over the last few weeks and for me it is a big (if not huge) step backwards. Although I think Sonos will Improve things over time.
To me the big issue is that the posts I would be interested in seeing are "buried" or far outnumbered by the shear volume of questions from new Sonos users. In the old forum these were collated in the "getting started" area and I could chose not to go there. But here everything is piled in together only sorted by date/time.
Yes, there are other issues (preview, editing etc.) but for me the big issue by far is that there is so much here in an unsorted mess! I used to go to the forum every day or so and there was normally only one or perhaps two pages of new post. So it only took a couple of minutes to find and read the posts of interest, now I do not even try to review them all just the first few pages!
I like to look at different things; like what problems people were having and what the solutions were, so that I could avoid the issue or solve is quickly if it happens to me or to see what cool ideas other people were having. Now when I go to the Community it all seems to be "can Sonos do this" or questions already answered in the Sonos literature/FAQ/instruction manuals (must drive the Sonos staff nuts!!). Finding interesting stuff is so much harder now (for long time rather new users).
Just my thoughts - YMMV.
To me the big issue is that the posts I would be interested in seeing are "buried" or far outnumbered by the shear volume of questions from new Sonos users. In the old forum these were collated in the "getting started" area and I could chose not to go there. But here everything is piled in together only sorted by date/time.
Yes, there are other issues (preview, editing etc.) but for me the big issue by far is that there is so much here in an unsorted mess! I used to go to the forum every day or so and there was normally only one or perhaps two pages of new post. So it only took a couple of minutes to find and read the posts of interest, now I do not even try to review them all just the first few pages!
I like to look at different things; like what problems people were having and what the solutions were, so that I could avoid the issue or solve is quickly if it happens to me or to see what cool ideas other people were having. Now when I go to the Community it all seems to be "can Sonos do this" or questions already answered in the Sonos literature/FAQ/instruction manuals (must drive the Sonos staff nuts!!). Finding interesting stuff is so much harder now (for long time rather new users).
Just my thoughts - YMMV.
And I gotta add... this 'Just Now' or 'Yesterday" or 'Two Weeks Ago' as a posting date is annoying and useless. Why can't you just post the actual date and time of a post?
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