The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

K

I will start this thread with a few caveats:

First, this thread is not for rants. There are plenty here for those, and there is no bar on opening new ones.

Second, the thread is directed for the subset of users that have a large investment in legacy products, and are content to see their Sonos systems as music systems that offer stable streamed music from either a NAS or from the net, and have no expectation of more bells and whistles - just that things continue to work as they are working today. I happen to be in this boat as well, as someone that has three out of six zones running very well on legacy products that I simply cannot afford to jettison until the hardware dies.

Third, this thread is based on facts, some of which have been coming to light only over the last 48 or so hours. It is therefore incomplete to an extent, and may even be wrong in places. Feel free therefore to clarify/correct/add as necessary - and I specifically invite @Ryan S  to do so. But, no rants please - they have a place, but this is not it.

All that said, this is the solution I intend to proceed with and recommend here:

Opt for a legacy system operation in May, that will run legacy and modern products, exactly as these run today; no faffing around with two networks. No more enhancements, but expecting Sonos to honestly fulfil their recent promise of all bug fixes that the legacy products can accommodate. Ditto for what needs to be done to accommodate changes driven by at least the mainstream service providers.

By a happy coincidence, all legacy products have line in jacks. So if something even happens at the streaming service end that cannot be accommodated in legacy products, I am confident of finding some device that can be wired to the line in jacks of these, that will still allow streaming from the culprit service to work including in grouped mode with all other products in the system.

The streaming from the local NAS will not have any issues in this mode, other than hardware failures including that of the NAS, and a key assumption here is that NAS changes will not need a Sonos software update.

Although Sonos has said that new products can be added to such a system, I do not see how this is possible once new products come installed with versions that are beyond the frozen legacy system one. Unless Sonos is not going to sell any new products in future with versions beyond the 2020 legacy one - I doubt that. And once a product comes with the latest version, adding it to a legacy system without rendering legacy products inoperable is going to be tricky because it will involve first separating the one system into two; I also admit to being a little fuzzy with this bit. In my case, this is all moot; I have no need for another zone. As an aside, I am someone therefore that is not of much interest to Sonos!

I also assume that if anyone at any time in the future wanted to jettison legacy products for any reason, all they will need to do is leave all such products powered off, invoke updates and the result will be a Sonos system updated to the day they do the invocation. The concern here for me is different - I need to have an ironclad way of NOT updating my system before I am ready to separate or jettison legacy products, and this needs more insights into how things will work on this front in future.

I am pretty sure that this way ahead will work in my use case and I suggest it will also work for many that are heavily invested in Sonos legacy products, that do not want to write it off or to trade up to new products just to retain all existing functionality.

Yes, it involves losing future enhancements/features, but once we accept that these essentially are music boxes that will keep doing all they do today, that should be an acceptable trade off, I suggest. It is to me, for sure.

So this way, this event will be just a minor inconvenience, and I expect to be able to use all my existing products till the hardware fails.

What this event has convince me though is to now look at/recommend smart systems that are truly modular in the sense that the smart bits can be periodically replaced at low cost, while the core “dumb” electronic hardware can be of such build/after sales support, that it justifies the higher investment in the consequent price, if better sound quality is also needed than what the smart front ends can alone provide. But that's for the future.

 

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570 replies

K

I have almost stopped posting anywhere else now; for sure this will be the last thread I will open in this place. 

Mostly now for free entertainment, and a few insights, I do keep looking at the main announcement thread that is a venting room more than anything else, but sometimes there are interesting things that surface. The quoted latest example below:

The question that i like an answer to is if its worth investing in another play5 gen 2 or will that also get obsolet? Wanted to have 4 of them but thats alot of money if they decide to release a gen3 and stop selling the gen2 which gives my speakers only 5 years after they got canceled, but 256MB is alot better than 32, 

guessing gen3 Will have 1024MB

should i buy the little ones with 1024 and sacrifice the bass or have faith and go with gen2

milliondollar question for me! 

Are people now going to start assessing options for which Sonos to buy like when they buy computers, comparing RAM/ROM etc?!! Instead of what should matter most for a music system - sound quality, ease of use and service life that is in consonance with the price demanded. And people are going to assess trade offs between RAM and sound quality???

And, Sonos, that has never published any spec for its integrated speakers, and rightly so IMO because  specs from the world of HiFi separates like watts/amps/ohms are irrelevant where Sonos speakers are concerned, will now start publishing this RAM/ROM stuff in a spec list?

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Kumar/all: fair points on Boeing.  NPR story today observed Boeing too big to fail.  Maybe not Sonos.

 

ZP-90 “progress” here:

Echo Input installed via line-in on ZP-90. It works. A few watch-outs (in my case):

1  Apparently low input signal. Working acceptably with source level set to 8 or higher, line-out set to pass-through.  Of course need Sonos controller for this. 

2  Tested with Echo Skill: TuneIn radio which required linking to Echo app. Fidelity: I don’t know, kinda weak, lotsa hops?

3  Amazon stuff: Music, Audible appear available, need trial.

4  Interestingly enough, once set-up, Echo Input set-up here on separate IoT subnet.  Echo app apparently does not (given my firewall rules) seem to care about subnet.  I thought I might be flip-flopping subnets on iOS which would have been messy, not family palatable.

 

Further plans:

1  Second Echo Input  line-in via Connect Amp. Via Echo app, set-up groups and see if groups work without sync issues.  That would be a Connect Amp save.  No additional wire pulls for these speakers.

2  Move first Echo direct to receiver aux input or tape/in out, trial input levels, trial linking to Echo Input on Connect Amp.  This would give me back ZP-90 line-in for other uses.

3  Explore NAS via Echo My Media skill.  Needs a server.  Need to think that a bit.  QNAP has an app that lives on the NAS.

4 Beg indulgence on timing further reports.  Other duties call.

 

K

More musings that will encourage folks with significant legacy components, but will leave Sonos alarmed, unless they are already thinking on these lines:

On page 5 of this thread I have posted a photo of one of my zones that has three clear layers of products that can be seen in it - the HiFi speaker from 2002, Connect Amp from 2012, and Echo Show 5 from 2019.

The way this came to be was in evolution like steps - Back when I bought the speakers, the system conceptually was a single layer one with all HiFi components in principle that could be bought from one company or different ones. In either case, a single layer conceptually.

When Sonos arrived at my home in 2011, it made for a second layer that squeezed out, by making them redundant, all the HiFi components except for the speakers. I sold them all; getting very good prices for the carefully used kit, because no part of it was obsolete in the sense a Connect Amp will be made obsolete. And once Sonos introduced speakers, people with no legacy HiFi kit to carry forward, were able use Sonos as the only layer - desirable from a convenience and often even appearance point of view - ask any wife that suffered the clutter of HiFi separates.

With the advent of Echo/Alexa in India in 2017, allied to the extreme tardiness of Sonos in releasing the Alexa Sonos integration in India (still to be released), I started accumulating Echo Dots for not much money. That culminated in the 2019 Echo Show 5 with a cool album art capable display that no Sonos unit has, plus all Echo features, that finally also made financial sense to me. So that got added on as the third layer in the system, connected to Line In jacks on the Connect Amp.

Here’s the thing now - how long before the Sonos layer gets squeezed out by the Echo interface that will evolve far more rapidly than any Sonos modern product, bearing down on Sonos from top and passive speakers at the bottom that will last a lifetime, resisting this downward pressure from below? Where, instead of the Connect Amp, the second layer was a more modular Connect+Amp? Why is Sonos even needed there - Echo on top and amp+passive speakers below. Or, buying new, active speakers, thus going back to a two layer system that does all that Sonos can, and more.

Sonos has issues as I see it, that will continue far beyond the successful management of the legacy event.

 

K

Kumar/all: fair points on Boeing.  NPR story today observed Boeing too big to fail.  Maybe not Sonos.

1  Apparently low input signal. Working acceptably with source level set to 8 or higher, line-out set to pass-through.  Of course need Sonos controller for this. 

 

 

Boeing also too big to be easily acquired, not so Sonos.

Feedback on line in sensitivity levels - this is an issue that is well known to Sonos line in users. The solution is to bump up line in levels all the way up to max -10 - on the controller app. It will cause distortion in only very rare cases; if distortion heard, dial level back down to 8.

PS: Does the Echo Input accept a bluetooth stream like the Echo Dot does? Also, try the Amazon Cast feature where you can start music on the phone in the Amazon Music app, and then cast it to the Input that will then take the stream over, leaving the phone out of the loop. Very good away of avoiding voice commands.

K

Feedback on line in sensitivity levels - this is an issue that is well known to Sonos line in users. The solution is to bump up line in levels all the way up to max -10 - on the controller app. It will cause distortion in only very rare cases; if distortion heard, dial level back down to 8.

PS: Does the Echo Input accept a bluetooth stream like the Echo Dot does? Also, try the Amazon Cast feature where you can start music on the phone in the Amazon Music app, and then cast it to the Input that will then take the stream over, leaving the phone out of the loop. Very good away of avoiding voice commands.

More tips for Echo try outs, all based on the wired to line in mode, I can’t speak to how the Alexa integration with Sonos works.

  1. Make sure to use Alexa groups within the Alexa apps to set up both groups and preferred speaker/groups. The latter allows voice commands to be very brief. 
  2. Also choose the most used streaming service that is available via Alexa as the default service, that also shortens the voice commands.
  3. A longer wire is needed for this, but it helps the voice thing to work better if the Echo unit is at some distance from the speakers, such that the sound from the latter does not overwhelm your voiced command.
  4. And of course, the cast to Echo feature is very useful on the many occasions that voice is not appropriate. It also helps people like me that have many self curated playlists in the app, but can’t remember them when needed, to select one and then command it to play by voice, usually in shuffled mode. I often have to call up the app to pick a playlist name to play, and then command it to play by voice. Or via the casting method, if that suits better at that time. Unfortunately the cast option is only available for Amazon Music at this time, even if, as it is in my case, Apple Music can also be played via Echo; hopefully that will change, but just now Apple Music play is possible only via voice. Other apps may have their own idiosyncrasies. Spotify may be able to use Spotify Connect to cast to Echo, something that someone here that has Spotify in Alexa can speak to that.
  5. It may be worth doing a search for more Echo tips and tricks, if that is either your chosen alternative to Sonos, or just as an interface to Sonos via Line In.
Majik

So now, a call to @ratty @buzz  and @Majik, Jedi masters of the Sonos galaxy, to step in whenever they can, in any way they can, in response to any post, in furtherance of the objectives of the thread that the title tries to capture. What ever you can do or are still willing to, will have an impact. 

Kumar,

Whilst I appreciate the shout-out, I certainly don’t consider myself to be any sort of “Jedi master” of Sonos. In fact I would probably say that, in recent years, I’ve grown a bit out of touch with the newer kit and the kit I have does what I need it to do (at least for the moment).

So, in conjunction with a waning interest in ”dabbling” with my system, the fact that I’m no longer a moderator (thank goodness), changes I made to my online habits a few years ago, and some changes in my working life I no longer feel the need to keep abreast of the latest and greatest in the Sonos world, including the forum chatter, angry mobs, and management fumbles.

If I was still a moderator during the current “fun” I’m really not sure how we would handle it. At the end of the day we didn’t want to censor opinions but, on the other hand, we wanted people to keep conversations reasonably civilised and, ideally rational and objective.

Unfortunately, the mishandling of this situation by Sonos seems to have raised a pitchfork mob, which almost certainly includes people who are wholly ignorant of the situation, but who have been given a whiff of blood and encouraged to “pile in” by sensationalist reporting in the gutter tech press (yes, Verge, I’m looking at you).

I recall this happening before but in much lower profile ways and at a point when Sonos was a much smaller animal, so the often-feigned bile and outrage directed into the forums was manageable.

I’ve not read the threads and probably won’t. But I guarantee there’s people in them who have joined the forum just to take shots at Sonos, and a good proportion of them won’t be Sonos users. Many of those people will have gone through several iterations of iPhone in as many years. #justsayin

That isn’t to say that people don’t have a point. This was really badly handled. I’m not going to speculate on the reasons behind it or whether they’ve could have done it a better way, etc. because I don’t feel qualified to.

As to what is the solution for those with mixed networks? Well I intend to continue to use my 2005-era ZP100’s (and other legacy) alongside some newer equipment I have just as I always have. As long as it largely continues to do what it does today, I really don’t care that much about new features.

I do care about streaming services, although the majority of my Sonos purchases were originally made based on streaming from my home server, and I don’t see that going away. Will there be services that I can’t access? Probably. Do I care? As long as there are some mainstream streaming services which still work for me, or if I can cast in some way, I’m not that bothered.

If it really comes to it I will split my network into two. That’s not ideal, but it will work for me.

If Sonos were to develop the app so you could easily switch between legacy and new installations, I would be happy with that.

To be honest, many of the ZPs in my network rarely get used these days. At some point I may upgrade one or two of my zones to newer kit, but I don’t feel compelled to do so at the moment. The zones where I do most of my listening have the newer devices already.

YMMV

Cheers,

Keith

K

@Majik if yoda has not already said this, it's because he forgot to: the first sign of a true master is that he knows he isn't one. 

He would have turned around the order of words in that sentence and come across as very profound of course.

Your approaches to the next steps are a very good validation of what many here plan to do, and knowing this is of much value. To me, at any rate.

K

Well I intend to continue to use my 2005-era ZP100’s (and other legacy) alongside some newer equipment I have just as I always have. As long as it largely continues to do what it does today, I really don’t care that much about new features.

As long as there are some mainstream streaming services which still work for me, or if I can cast in some way, I’m not that bothered.

If it really comes to it I will split my network into two. That’s not ideal, but it will work for me.

 

Key takeaways in my book, the quoted. As to the first, this is close to what MacFarlane tweeted as his go ahead plan, so we are in august company.

I don't see myself running two networks, so I doubt I will split, but that decision also hangs on things like what unit is placed in what part of the home, so it is very much a case of different strokes, and the answer will vary from one user to the next.

chickentender

Just a pop-in; I’ve now been enjoying my newly reconfigured for 3 days now and quite honestly am beginning to feel almost happy about the announcement because it prompted me to look at other possibilities… Not the drastic measures some have imagined this announcement necessitating, just subtle massaging. The simply addition of the Node2i and tape-monitor loop for the connect incorporating the rest of the house is just fantastic. I’ve not been on the forum but for stints here and there in the past years - largely everything worked and for that reason I never had much pragmatic reason to hang about (particularly because I’ve a couple other forums, mostly photography related, at which I spent most of my internet “free time” on) so I always drifted back away.

But for now all seems just fine again. I will not split my network, come flood or drought. Between the mentioned kit addition/change and the Airplay2 option from my wife’s devices to our Sonos One (as well as to the Bluesound), we’re as future-proof as need be. And, certainly, wandering about listening to some Tom Waits albums from the main turntable whilst back in the office today was surely nice. (I’ve mentioned to her several times I cannot believe I’d not utilized the receiver better all this time, but ah well.) At any rate, I’ll keep popping in once in a while. And hopefully Ryan might get the go-ahead to share a bit of information sooner than May… if for no other reason than to tamp the firestarters a bit (and admittedly I fanned some flame in the first day or so) in these weeks coming. Methinks they doth protest too much.

K

quite honestly am beginning to feel almost happy about the announcement because it prompted me to look at other possibilities… Not the drastic measures some have imagined this announcement necessitating, just subtle massaging.

Why am I not surprised?! It was the absence of the Alexa India integration that drove me towards the idling Line In jacks of my Sonos kit a couple of years ago, so I know the feeling. That was before the release of the display equipped Echo Show 5, that made a display screen addition to Sonos possible, but it was being able to play with cheap Dots that have now left me a viable alternative to Sonos that gives me something I missed in Sonos from the early days, based on my use of CD players that had a LED strip that gave track play information - now, about ten years after having sold the last such player, a Sonos zone finally has a display that has more - album art in full colour. In another Sonos zone, I get album art for track playing on a old 32 inch LCD panel via Spotify, from a Chromecast Video puck fed TV that has its audio wired to the Line In of a Connect. All this means that if Sonos were to release the Alexa India integration before the legacy halt happens, it will be useful to me, but in just one of my zones where the play 1 pair does not have line in jacks. 

An interesting experience to narrate in this context: back in late 2017, when Amazon released Alexa in India, being impatient to have it on Sonos, I emailed Spence a couple of times to shake the India integration out of the Sonos tree. He responded, politely, but did nothing more. After some time, I had a WTF moment, and  figured out a way to get Alexa to work on my Sonos zones via Sonos line in jacks and did not feel the need for Spence any more. 

There is a lesson there for Sonos that savvy business managers have known for ages - once you give a competitor a toe hold in your strongholds, there is no knowing how the thin end of that wedge may expand, even to the point of displacing you over time. So before you pursue new markets and new customers, make sure that you do not concede any toe holds in your existing markets - you risk losing everything that way.

These by the way are things that doesn't take a geek to accomplish, it is all plug and play and some imagination. Many possibilities then become visible to not just replicate but to go beyond what Sonos offers.

Necessity is the mother of invention, as I am sure many other users will re-discover as well.

A

And hopefully Ryan might get the go-ahead to share a bit of information sooner than May… if for no other reason than to tamp the firestarters a bit (and admittedly I fanned some flame in the first day or so) in these weeks coming. Methinks they doth protest too much.

Just to avoid confusion - whose sincerity are you doubting? Sonos or the firestarters?

Ken_Griffiths

So now, a call to @ratty @buzz  and @Majik, Jedi masters of the Sonos galaxy, to step in whenever they can, in any way they can, in response to any post, in furtherance of the objectives of the thread that the title tries to capture. What ever you can do or are still willing to, will have an impact. 

Kumar,

Whilst I appreciate the shout-out, I certainly don’t consider myself to be any sort of “Jedi master” of Sonos. In fact I would probably say that, in recent years, I’ve grown a bit out of touch with the newer kit and the kit I have does what I need it to do (at least for the moment).

So, in conjunction with a waning interest in ”dabbling” with my system, the fact that I’m no longer a moderator (thank goodness), changes I made to my online habits a few years ago, and some changes in my working life I no longer feel the need to keep abreast of the latest and greatest in the Sonos world, including the forum chatter, angry mobs, and management fumbles.

If I was still a moderator during the current “fun” I’m really not sure how we would handle it. At the end of the day we didn’t want to censor opinions but, on the other hand, we wanted people to keep conversations reasonably civilised and, ideally rational and objective.

Unfortunately, the mishandling of this situation by Sonos seems to have raised a pitchfork mob, which almost certainly includes people who are wholly ignorant of the situation, but who have been given a whiff of blood and encouraged to “pile in” by sensationalist reporting in the gutter tech press (yes, Verge, I’m looking at you).

I recall this happening before but in much lower profile ways and at a point when Sonos was a much smaller animal, so the often-feigned bile and outrage directed into the forums was manageable.

I’ve not read the threads and probably won’t. But I guarantee there’s people in them who have joined the forum just to take shots at Sonos, and a good proportion of them won’t be Sonos users. Many of those people will have gone through several iterations of iPhone in as many years. #justsayin

That isn’t to say that people don’t have a point. This was really badly handled. I’m not going to speculate on the reasons behind it or whether they’ve could have done it a better way, etc. because I don’t feel qualified to.

As to what is the solution for those with mixed networks? Well I intend to continue to use my 2005-era ZP100’s (and other legacy) alongside some newer equipment I have just as I always have. As long as it largely continues to do what it does today, I really don’t care that much about new features.

I do care about streaming services, although the majority of my Sonos purchases were originally made based on streaming from my home server, and I don’t see that going away. Will there be services that I can’t access? Probably. Do I care? As long as there are some mainstream streaming services which still work for me, or if I can cast in some way, I’m not that bothered.

If it really comes to it I will split my network into two. That’s not ideal, but it will work for me.

If Sonos were to develop the app so you could easily switch between legacy and new installations, I would be happy with that.

To be honest, many of the ZPs in my network rarely get used these days. At some point I may upgrade one or two of my zones to newer kit, but I don’t feel compelled to do so at the moment. The zones where I do most of my listening have the newer devices already.

YMMV

Cheers,

Keith

It’s so refreshing to see from your post, that amongst all the ‘flak’ around here, some common sense still prevails and I have same/similar thoughts Keith, that if I were to divide my Sonos Household into ‘legacy’ and ‘modern’ it would not bother me too much either..  nice if I could achieve 'upstairs' and 'downstairs' separate zones in my home, but whatever setup I have, post May, I’m sure I will cope with any physical divide. 

 

I do still believe the most important aspect of all this for the majority is, I assume, to keep their devices up and running for as long as it is practicable to do so and that we at least feel we have got our ‘money’s worth’, or more, from them. For some that might perhaps be a period of more than 5 to 10 years and for others it seems to be a rather unrealistic expectation period in some cases, but ‘nothing is forever’. 10 years overall is ‘extremely reasonable’ and Sonos has far exceeded that now in some cases.

 

Nothing in any of the Sonos announcements cause me (personally) any real concern, in fact some things have reassured me greatly, in that Staff say they will do all that is reasonably practical, within their capabilities, to keep the already 'old’ legacy products running for the foreseeable future. I can live with that ‘promise’.

 

I think we all have to accept that the ‘plugin’ services (external factors) maybe beyond Sonos control, but with some cooperation I don’t see why those services will ever truly want to cut off their own loyal customers anyway.

 

In regard to the ‘initial’ announcement, I still don’t see any inaccuracies in the message, but it was (without doubt) widely misinterpreted, in a variety of different ways, by many (even done purposely, on occasions, I suspect) ...and the core message got twisted early on in a “Chinese Whisper” (game) kind of way, to the extent that the wrong message was then being conveyed. 

 

It became necessary for Sonos to re-state their message with some additional clarity and reassurance and that has since greatly helped. 

 

What will help further, of course is the detail about the proposal and I’m sure we will get that too in the fullness of time.

 

The issue that I see now is that people are acting rather impatiently, that’s human nature and want to know everything right now, or they will just continue to stamp their feet, speculate and rumourmonger until they then believe what they want to choose to believe. 

 

Drip feeding Sonos customers pieces of the overall final concept may not now help either and I think Sonos are right to now wait and convey their message in full.

 

It’s just a pity that some people cannot wait patiently until the all important message arrives in May.

K

From Twitter: On Jan. 17, Sonos testified it’s different from Big Tech because (in part) of long-term software updates. On Tuesday, it said it would stop updates in May to old speakers. Now it’s CEO has apologized and said they’ll still give bug fixes.

I was not aware of this Jan 17 testimony - perhaps it was in connection with the Google law suit. Regardless of any nuances in what was said there by Spence, this is very poor timing by him, to cause such a confluence of pronouncements.

And while some may think it wrong, the fact is that today, public perception is shaped by these sound bites. 

K

@Ryan S : this is something that may be on the Sonos to do list, but it is important enough to nevertheless say it.

The present on going version development is a process that also involves bug creation in which every new development/tweak has bugs in it, that get fixed in the next version along with some tweaking somewhere that causes a bug somewhere else, that then gets fixed and so on and on. Which is irritating, like the present line in level 8 to 10 bug as an example, but no more than that, because these are temporary things that fade in and fade out. But this on going process will get disrupted for the legacy version, with many bugs created but unattended. With fixes promised even after May, but with time frames that may not be as rapid as in the past or as rapid as those for the modern version. It may therefore be a good idea to call a halt on all development releases now, on the basis that Sonos is now as good as it is ever going to get for us legacy lot, and spend the rest of the time till May doing only clean ups and first hunting and then fixing of every known/found bug, and testing to see that this has actually been achieved before the legacy version is forked.

We are happy with Sonos as it is now and it isn't going to matter to anyone what little additional features we will lose out on from now till May if this approach is adopted. And if we are left in ignorance of any such, ignorance is bliss will apply.

I also understand that this may be standard operating procedure in software development, in which case please say you are following it and I will say no more about this matter.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Yes, we do love current functionality and want it to be preserved in Legacy.

Two items on wish-list for legacy version:

1 Fix: Exit SMB1 protocol (long ago identified as not secure) to SMB2/3 for NAS.  Really need that fix.

2 Feature: Add album art, all operating systems. Glaring ommision.

jgatie

Yes, we do love current functionality and want it to be preserved in Legacy.

Two items on wish-list for legacy version:

1 Fix: Exit SMB1 protocol (long ago identified as not secure) to SMB2/3 for NAS.  Really need that fix.

 

If they were able to fit the new Linux kernel required for SMB v2 support into the legacy device’s 32 MB, don’t you think they would have done it by now?  

 

chickentender

And hopefully Ryan might get the go-ahead to share a bit of information sooner than May… if for no other reason than to tamp the firestarters a bit (and admittedly I fanned some flame in the first day or so) in these weeks coming. Methinks they doth protest too much.

Just to avoid confusion - whose sincerity are you doubting? Sonos or the firestarters?

Isn’t a matter of sincerity to me. I was talking about the main “clarification” thread and the firestorm there. As Majik mentioned, there are some in there seemingly concerned more about fire-fanning than about solving problems and getting good information. They’re free to. I meant that some more forthcoming  detail from Sonos sooner than later could go a long way in dousing the flame.
… or perhaps not. 

melvimbe

And hopefully Ryan might get the go-ahead to share a bit of information sooner than May… if for no other reason than to tamp the firestarters a bit (and admittedly I fanned some flame in the first day or so) in these weeks coming. Methinks they doth protest too much.

Just to avoid confusion - whose sincerity are you doubting? Sonos or the firestarters?

Isn’t a matter of sincerity to me. I was talking about the main “clarification” thread and the firestorm there. As Majik mentioned, there are some in there seemingly concerned more about fire-fanning than about solving problems and getting good information. They’re free to. I meant that some more forthcoming  detail from Sonos sooner than later could go a long way in dousing the flame.
… or perhaps not. 

 

I’d rather see Sonos take more time to make sure the information they share is solid with no chance of changing between now and May.  Since this isn’t just about policy, but how the changes they are promising (the two separate systems and how they are controlled) are technical in nature, I’d want them to be able to go through some test runs and make sure the can deliver first.

Danny
chickentender

And hopefully Ryan might get the go-ahead to share a bit of information sooner than May… if for no other reason than to tamp the firestarters a bit (and admittedly I fanned some flame in the first day or so) in these weeks coming. Methinks they doth protest too much.

Just to avoid confusion - whose sincerity are you doubting? Sonos or the firestarters?

Isn’t a matter of sincerity to me. I was talking about the main “clarification” thread and the firestorm there. As Majik mentioned, there are some in there seemingly concerned more about fire-fanning than about solving problems and getting good information. They’re free to. I meant that some more forthcoming  detail from Sonos sooner than later could go a long way in dousing the flame.
… or perhaps not. 

 

I’d rather see Sonos take more time to make sure the information they share is solid with no chance of changing between now and May.  Since this isn’t just about policy, but how the changes they are promising (the two separate systems and how they are controlled) are technical in nature, I’d want them to be able to go through some test runs and make sure the can deliver first.

Yeah, that’s precisely the opinion I’ve been coming around to, even as I typed the above post. Agreed.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Yes, we do love current functionality and want it to be preserved in Legacy.

Two items on wish-list for legacy version:

1 Fix: Exit SMB1 protocol (long ago identified as not secure) to SMB2/3 for NAS.  Really need that fix.

 

If they were able to fit the new Linux kernel required for SMB v2 support into the legacy device’s 32 MB, don’t you think they would have done it by now?  

 


Sure hope they would have.  Plausible there are technical issues. Plausible it did not reach threshold of fix on resource allocation. I’m not technically skilled enough to know if could run multiple SMB protocols on NAS.  Sure would like it if they at least disclose rationale/limits of continued use of obsolete protocol so user can make security assessment and enlightened decision, but I digress.  Plausible Sonos path forward fixes this, which sounds like a marketing claim to me…..more secure for NAS users.

K

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2 Feature: Add album art, all operating systems. Glaring ommision.

@train_nerd  add it where? How, there is no display.. or do you mean on some controllers that show track information minus album art? That would be a nice to have, but not a must have.

K

 

I’d rather see Sonos take more time to make sure the information they share is solid with no chance of changing between now and May.  Since this isn’t just about policy, but how the changes they are promising (the two separate systems and how they are controlled) are technical in nature, I’d want them to be able to go through some test runs and make sure the can deliver first.

I agree - @Ryan S - it is vitally important to get this more right than ever achieved till now by Sonos. And for it to be complete.

As to when this is done - it may be March, it could be July - what is just as important is to have enough time after this information sharing but before the legacy lock out: for as many users as possible to digest it properly. Also, to disseminate this as widely/expensively as Sonos does every time it launches the next version of bestest and greatest since sliced bread. And make sure that there are enough Sonos resources that understand this information package themselves, to promptly/correctly answer questions at all Sonos touch points; and for this community touch point, not to rely as much as you usually do on experienced users to do this for you. Or to say for all other touch points - this the best that can be expected of first level touch points. To use that fall back for this event will amount to being criminally negligent.

Also, what happens in this scenario - some one takes no updates action on his system that has legacy products, by ignorance of having to do this or for any other reason, and also does not inadvertently do so, for so many days after “May” that when he does this, there have been further versions released for modern products? Another convolution among many to bake into the transition process workflow I reckon.

T
Userlevel 3
Badge +1

Yep, album art on controller/mini. Wistful...agree nice to have; MUCH rather have security fixes. Common practice here to run controller on PC or MacMini wired to large screen TV viewing what’s playing. It’s regular guest question (Hey, what is that music?) when playlist/streaming listening (22K songs in library).  I’m sure there are different ways I’ve not discovered to do this, FWIW.

K

@train_nerd ahh...now that, I get. I have alluded to this requirement a few times here myself. Why only guests, with so much new music easily accessible now, I too keep having that question of what is this music. 

I have solved this in two different ways in two zones, one in the dining space that lies in a central open plan area in the home, and another in an adjacent patio. In the first, Echo Show 5 wired to a Connect Amp gives album art. In the adjacent patio, I found a way to use a old 32 inch LCD TV when it became available, instead of sending it to a landfill:  wall mounted, fed by a extremely high value for money Chromecast, with audio running to Connect Line In jacks. Spotify casts to the TV via the Chrome, shows album art while the sound is from my external speakers alone, or, for parties, from grouping of zones in the adjacent open space living dining areas as well. And not just album art for audio, YouTube premium gives access to high quality music videos as well, cast to the TV via the Chrome. I am not a big fan of TV in common areas in the home, but to be able to see Clapton playing Cocaine, or Joanne Shaw Taylor strutting her stuff, both live, as just a couple of examples from hundreds available, with HiFi quality sound that is also clearly heard in the entire open space even where the TV can be seen only in the distance, goes down very well for parties.

Note here that in neither zone, can Sonos do this on its own. As far as I know.

NAS play can't be supplied artwork in any way that my non geek brain can figure out, but more and more often these days, I don't use the NAS. But I am pretty sure there must be ways to serve NAS play with album art as well, again, outside of Sonos.

chickentender

NAS play can't be supplied artwork in any way that my non geek brain can figure out, but more and more often these days, I don't use the NAS. But I am pretty sure there must be ways to serve NAS play with album art as well, again, outside of Sonos.

Easiest way I’ve found that is reliable in a non-geek way is using metadata to include album art. It requires some work upfront when ripping music (or going back through it to add the art) and I’m sure there are tools to expedite the process but I’ve never looked into it. DBPoweramp is what I’ve used for audio metadata editing for many years now. You just need a .jpg or .png of the cover-art (you can include liner art and back-cover as well but I very, very rarely do) and there is a metadata field you click to add the art. With DBPoweramp you can multi-select all the files in a single album to do it all in one go. Click save and you’re done. More and more often, most music-related programs will use this as a possible source to display album art. IIRC the Sonos controller in the more distant past did not, but, (instead using a “cover.jpg” image in the same album directory as the content I think) but it does now. After saving the art metadata you refresh your library and all the new artwork should appear.

https://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmchelposx/edit-tags.htm

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