The Sonos Brexit and pragmatic ways past it

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K

To me it is useful only as a reinforcement to an assurance that even if Sonos were to go belly up, line in equipped Sonos hardware would keep going on. Supplied by devices like echo that would also do things like grouping multiple units. Trade up isn't available in India and I do not expect it ever will be and I don't have any strong feelings about that - if any, these are of being happy it will never come, we have enough issues with trash management. 

C
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@Cisume : Hard to see that happening, and if it does, Sonos being an early adopter - so in its absence cherish the Line In jacks on Sonos legacy products.

In the mean time I think I may dive into their API 

Smilja

To me it is useful only as a reinforcement to an assurance that even if Sonos were to go belly up, line in equipped Sonos hardware would keep going on. Supplied by devices like echo that would also do things like grouping multiple units. Trade up isn't available in India and I do not expect it ever will be and I don't have any strong feelings about that - if any, these are of being happy it will never come, we have enough issues with trash management. 

 

Amazon would cut the cord in that case, just as any other service currently available on Sonos would.

»And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space, Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind.« (›Windmills Of Your Mind‹ [1967]. Music by Michel Legrand ; English lyrics written by Alan & Marilyn Bergman)
K

The question in the preceding post is answered by doing exactly this, using a Raspberry Pi 3, with a USB stick parked in it. The Pi is ethernet wired to a nearby play 1 unit - thank goodness it has that jack - to allow the Sonos to do the heavy lifting of wireless propagation of the music that is voice commanded to play from Echo Show/Spot in different parts of the home, with album art. AIFF/ALAC/AAC all play with a transcoding thing enabled in the mymedia app.

The only fiddly thing about the mymedia app is playlist building, but I think there are some workarounds there that I have not discovered yet.

The 128Gb USB stick contains 4000 tracks of my 20000 strong main NAS, that is now left powered off. The Pi can be powered off, and on reboot, is ready to serve music in the few minutes the reboot needs. No intervention needed.

I was hesitant about this Pi thing, but I am now sold on it, and not just for this application. I have used more of the Mac Terminal in the last four days than in the last ten years.

A brand new hobby, courtesy of the Sonos legacy event. A Pi camera module is on order:-).

Many thanks to @castalla for all the handholding. 

I would recommend starting this with a USB keyboard/mouse, and a HDMI cable supplied TV - this is a much easier way to get going to those of us who have never seen command line inputs. Even if it has to be bought, the keyboard/mouse is very cheap and worth the investment, for beginners.

chickentender

There is one aspect where I can add relevant value to this thread, based on experience with audiophile kits for a decade and Sonos for another and that is on the subject of the sound quality via Line In. 

There is absolutely no difference in the heard sound quality between Apple Music invoked via the Sonos app, and Apple Music invoked on an Echo device and played via a wire connected Connect Amp. It isn't even necessary for the wire to be anything more expensive than a bog standard RCA stereo cable - I have found that these days excellent cables in varying lengths are sold by Amazon Basics at very reasonable prices. But any electronics shop should also have perfectly adequate ones.

Audiophiles may also point out that there is an additional analog to digital conversion involved here that takes place in the Connect Amp - again, it does not result in any audible difference.

To-date, this hasn’t been my experience but I very much suspect that’s purely because my only A/B testing done has been A-direct native sonos from the Connect, and B-line-in play back from Connect with a smart TV source. I reckon if I compared the native playback with a music-oriented device (line-in to Connect) playing the same content then my experience would match what you’re saying.
Now I’m waiting for the Node 2i to arrive, so there’ll be some definite near-future A/B’ing upcoming in my house. :)

K

@amun  Agreed on CCA; but as you pointed out, one now needs access to the used products market, since Google has stopped selling it. 

K

@Cisume let us know if you find anything useful. In English please:-)

K

My experience and research suggests that cases where audible differences survive single variable controlled double blind tests are close to non existent, and probably non existent in a typical domestic environment with an elevated noise floor. In simple words, sound quality will not be an issue as long as the source is identical and sound levels are the same. 

D
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@Cisume : Hard to see that happening, and if it does, Sonos being an early adopter - so in its absence cherish the Line In jacks on Sonos legacy products.

In the mean time I think I may dive into their API 

Maybe look into their firmware.

Would be interesting if someone with the knowledge did a validity check on their “There is not enough flash storage to keep updating”.

K

@Cisume you mean a return to planned obsolescence, surely.

chickentender

I’ve been cruising around the web this evening. Looked into Raspberry Pi which I’d not touched since around 2015 when I tinkered with them for a work project. Still very cool.
Though as I’ve participated to a limited extent over in the Rantsville frustration farm, all whilst listening to quite a bit of streamed music around the house via the Bluesound piped to Sonos as I’ve described, I realized something. I’m just not sure how much I care anymore. I think were it to come down to it, as well as my current setup works, I’d just buy 2nd hand Sonos, or even new again --- this at least in terms of extending the network to non-critical-listening areas…. which is most of them. At $354 (as of the moment) for a pair of One SL’s, that’s bit hard to beat for what they are. Particularly so if I can continue to feed them via another source. I’ll certainly wait to see what shakes out in May, but to my surprise I may have reversed course. This is all simply due to the fact that I’m already invested in 4 other speakers and the Connect (which is meager compared to some folks) and transitioning completely sounds like a pain. If things look good in the spring…. well, I dunno. I’m softening to the whole idea ever since getting the Node 2i. Perhaps I’ll just view it all as diversification. 

M
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To me it is useful only as a reinforcement to an assurance that even if Sonos were to go belly up, line in equipped Sonos hardware would keep going on. Supplied by devices like echo that would also do things like grouping multiple units. Trade up isn't available in India and I do not expect it ever will be and I don't have any strong feelings about that - if any, these are of being happy it will never come, we have enough issues with trash management. 

 

Amazon would cut the cord in that case, just as any other service currently available on Sonos would.

Except the line in on the sonos would be agnostic to any service.  It would just play what was coming out of the line out of the echo/google home/cd player etc.  (an electrical signal of a specific voltage?)That is,  of course, as long as the sonos could boot up and use it's line input.

K

The CCA was a brilliant product, with a neat switch to provide better quality signals if a HiFi set was the target speaker. At the time, the price was ridiculously low, but I have a feeling it lacked a champion inside a huge Google. The CC for TV is still around though.

But as a replacement for Sonos, I found the compulsion of having to always use the phone to deploy/manage CCA streams to be clunky and I much prefer the Echo which can initiate play by voice AND by phone. The latter via casting or by bluetooth.

So the CCA went into a drawer where it still languishes, because I had the Connect already, and when the Echo came along, it provided a much slicker way to leverage the line in jacks on the Connect.

It may well happen that someone that sees Sonos legacy line in jacks as a starting target market will turn up, to provide this transition with yet another option.

F
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@amun  Agreed on CCA; but as you pointed out, one now needs access to the used products market, since Google has stopped selling it. 

Or even a used old-style Airport Express. I’ve seen them as low as £4.

M
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I think more and more I am heading in the direction of replacing my sonos/amazon echo environment with an Amazon echo only environment with dumb amp and speakers and cheap echo dots as the "smarts".

I currently only have 3 modern sonos products which I could still sell for a reasonable return.  I already have 5 echo dots which I paid a total of less than 200 dollars for so if Amazon pulls a similar move, I am not worried about the expense and I can just replace again with another competitor.

I can remove the sonos connect from my vintage audio system and connect an echo dot line out to my receiver.

The one area I have to figure out is in the living room.  I have a pair of play ones on either side of the tv which I just use for music.  They sound pretty good and I love the compact size.  I don't want large speakers there.  I am thinking if I could find an absolutely dumb sound bar with similar sound qualities to a pair of play ones I will likely make the move.  I want dumb as in no WiFi connection, no web site and no accounts required.  Amp and speakers in the simple form of a sound bar that can sit under my tv.  Would connect to an echo dot via line in and added bonus of an HDMI input for the tv.  No idea yet what product that will be.

The echo environment doesn't play locally stored music but I am getting more ok with that as well.  Just as Netflix has replaced my DVD viewing, streaming has replaced my local albums on my nas. 

I am becoming more and more ok with all of this.  I no longer see a reason to pay premium prices for Sonos.  Just got to find a dumb sound bar with good enough sound quality for music listening.

K

@FarFromGruntled - I have used these for audio back in 2011. Their weakness is stable music play because of how the music streams are handled, particularly for grouped play. I only use them as WiFi access points now, wired to the network. In that role they are still excellent.

K

 I’d just buy 2nd hand Sonos, or even new again

 if I can continue to feed them via another source.

 due to the fact that I’m already invested in 4 other speakers and the Connect (which is meager compared to some folks) and transitioning completely sounds like a pain. 

Being pragmatic means ruling out nothing that can work so the quoted merely raises the following questions:

  1. By feeding them another source, you mean via the existing Sonos speakers, because the ones you refer to do not have line in?
  2. That would then means the additions would have to be joinable to the legacy system?
  3. And it would mean that you would be willing to have the new Sonos forego all the subsequent to legacy features, even if that means foregoing Hi Res if that is one of them?

Of course a fundamental assumption is that the new Sonos speaker bought in say 2021, can be added to a unified legacy system as one part of it.

F
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It might be that my assumption that Sonos has a shutdown routine is wrong. Other devices such as Chromecast seem to work fine after a power pull. Knowing that SD card damage is the weakest link in RPi has got me wondering.

I know that it is possible to boot some models of RPi from a USB device instead of from the SD card. I have read that this is preferable because USB sticks and USB external drives used for this purpose are said to be more stable than SD cards. Maybe it’s as simple as that. It’s not the Pi per se that’s the problem, just the card. I haven’t tried it myself but I’m sure that some people here have and can comment.

chickentender

 I’d just buy 2nd hand Sonos, or even new again

 if I can continue to feed them via another source.

 due to the fact that I’m already invested in 4 other speakers and the Connect (which is meager compared to some folks) and transitioning completely sounds like a pain. 

Being pragmatic means ruling out nothing that can work so the quoted merely raises the following questions:

  1. By feeding them another source, you mean via the existing Sonos speakers, because the ones you refer to do not have line in?
  2. That would then means the additions would have to be joinable to the legacy system?
  3. And it would mean that you would be willing to have the new Sonos forego all the subsequent to legacy features, even if that means foregoing Hi Res if that is one of them?

Of course a fundamental assumption is that the new Sonos speaker bought in say 2021, can be added to a unified legacy system as one part of it.

As things stand of this moment only… There are certainly some assumptions at play in my thinking regarding the future. How that shapes up in reality remains to be seen.

  1. Another source meaning from another device to my Connect (the Bluesound currently)… assuming legacy changes nothing going forward from basic operational standpoint. But also factoring in is the ability to Airplay2 to my single Sonos One (another of those could be beneficial) as well as just using the Sonos controller whilst using just the Sonos network.
  2. Yes. This is the assumption that we’ll be able to add new (currently) or old (though if legacy, old seems pragmatic in the near term, but a modern (still perhaps used) could have more longevity than we might think if it’s a ONE or more current that Play:1 in terms of memory/storage, so that could be a possibility were I to ever upgrade to 256mb 2nd-hand Connect (which has also crossed my mind).
  3. Correct. Hi-res support, in my current environment doesn’t matter to me in terms of Sonos. I receive it from the Bluesound in the main room. The other zones are just casual/background music - an I’m not certain how important hir-res really is to me anyhow. FLAC is often just fine. (I’ve been auditioning Qobuz recently and I do hear a difference in some selections, but there are too many other variables to be definitive, and even as such, the difference is subtle.)
K

While you are correct about the SD card where the Pi is concerned, that is because that is all that can suffer the damage from a power pull if no USB card is in use! And I remember reading this to be true of computers in general - they do not like to have the power pulled on them. One gets so used to battery equipped laptops and iPad like devices, that this ceases to be an issue.

But logically, this also should then be an issue for Sonos that no one seems to talk about - all that is said here as far as I know is that electronic kit usually lives longer when not power cycled, but that is a different issue/aspect.

So my question is now not Pi but Sonos directed.

 

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