Sonos iOS update is shockingly bad - first impressions
Userlevel 5
+6
The whole My Sonos feature is confusing. The playlists are confusing, and huge graphics which means hardly any playlists can be shown. Was SO hoping the Mac app would get an update, but no such luck. Wait for more reviews before upgrading..... or am I missing something?
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Hi, thanks John B for reading my mad ramblings and being measured in your response!
If I could just comment on a couple of things, I would be interested in your views...!
Your right to a degree that the system does more than when the CR200 was launched. But the ‘more’ is mostly more online sources, more configuration (trueplay) and options in setting up, etc. The true core — the essence of what Sonos is — is ‘play this music in that room’. I personally (and I’m getting on so my memory does fail me) can’t think of new functionality that has been added to day to day playing of music. That part should be fundamentally simple. It’s core, it’s basic — and that (some) people are complaining that this part is not fluidly simple would suggest its gone bad.
The other thing I’d like to comment on is the distinction between what is logical and what is intuitive. I’m not sure there is any difference here. For instance you may click on a button that is unlabelled because it’s location / shape /context suggests what it should logically do. If it’s logical, it’s intuitive. My own personal opinion is that modern design (unlabelled buttons, the ‘hamburger’ button, the ‘three dot’ symbol) are bad design and counter intuitive, but this seems to be the way interfaces are going, so I guess I’m in the minority here. But again the visuals are always down to preference. But call it logical or call it intuitive - the design should be both!!
Right, off for bacon sandwich.
Andrew
Like some others, I do not regularly post to forums. It was not until hosting some friends last night that I noticed how "bad" / "poor" the new controller truly is. Aesthetically it is not pleasing. Functionally it is woeful. I used it for 3 hours and it never was intuitive. I have been using Sonos for many years (and promoted it to others to adopt). I hadn't used the update to this point because (thankfully) the Mac OS controller remains quite good (don't change that one). And I traded messages with an installer of home systems who advised that all of his clients are not happy either. I can only hope that some updates / adjustments are coming, but would be difficult to pick an area to start. Really alot of work to do here...but dominant colors of while, black, red? Can see there was an effort from some minimalist look, but not having ability to search for songs from selected room screen is confounding. Good luck...will be waiting.
Userlevel 7
+17
I guess therein lies the problem. It really seems that each new UI launch is rushed out of the door in response to who knows what and then the changes only start when the complaints begin. Why not do some proper research upfront and/or in alpha and apply whatever tweaks are needed (within reason) before rolling out to the masses. I recall a prior new UI (dont know which) where the volume slider was missing from the Now Playing window. Thats just madness. You could say the same on this release as to why the toolbar is missing from the 'Now Playing' which I know was highlighted before general release. These are small things which could easily be incorporated into the release when the UI is introduced rather than in reaction to the ensuing uproar that follows delivering something in a seemingly 'unfinished' state. No one ever is shouting for a completely new UI so even a delay of a few months to 'refine' it based on some wider user feedback is surely preferable to the current approach of deliver 75%, face a barrage of criticism, then deliver the rest in 5% increments later on
Userlevel 7
+17
Wow - jgatie - think I’m gonna have to get some police protection outside my house the way you are going on and clearly a little obsessive spending hours going back over 3 year old posts.
I don’t hate change at all or I’d never do, buy, see or experience anything new in my life. I do however hate changes that are not improvements. Did you even read my earlier comments above with my view about the app ?
You also seem to suggest I do nothing but trawl these forums complaining but you obviously omitted to mention all the posts where I am trying to help others out in addition to spending a considerable amount of time testing for Sonos and providing what I hope is valuable feedback in alpha and beta phases to improve the product for everyone’s benefit
I don’t hate change at all or I’d never do, buy, see or experience anything new in my life. I do however hate changes that are not improvements. Did you even read my earlier comments above with my view about the app ?
You also seem to suggest I do nothing but trawl these forums complaining but you obviously omitted to mention all the posts where I am trying to help others out in addition to spending a considerable amount of time testing for Sonos and providing what I hope is valuable feedback in alpha and beta phases to improve the product for everyone’s benefit
Took me about 5 minutes of looking through the whole app and at each screen properly and tapping on everything to see what it did. I am somewhat dumbfounded why some find it so difficult. I doubt a new user would find it so as it is quite logically arranged with the choice tabs across the bottom.
It has its faults.
Choice...scream blue murder about something that has changed (you’ll never be able to operate a new TV, hate Windows with a vengence, really hate the latest Apple software updates, really hate all the changes on other music apps that do not have to manage multiple speakers...and the list goes on)
OR
Say what you don’t like and why.
My Sonos
Icons far too large. Favourites show a list for See All while Playlist just shows BIG icons. Consistency needed.
Browse
Just fine. Does what it says.
Rooms
Icons far too big
Search
Even better than before. Again final view is BIG icons. Should be a list, or small icons for consistency across views.
More - a welcome consolidation of “other”
The main gripes are about big icons. Consistency needs to be established so as to provide icons or a list (personal favourite) across screens and results.
I rather like the small red room indicator at the bottom.
White screen. So what, my opinion. I listen to music, not look at the app, and know how to adjust the brightness on my iPad (for example) as this needs to be adjusted when reading in dimmer surroundings. Does nobody else adjust the brightness of their screen? Why not? If the screen brightness is OK for other things then it is perfectly OK for the app. Would I prefer the app to have a darker background...honestly...don’t care.
The queue behaviour still needs work for consistency.
It has its faults.
Choice...scream blue murder about something that has changed (you’ll never be able to operate a new TV, hate Windows with a vengence, really hate the latest Apple software updates, really hate all the changes on other music apps that do not have to manage multiple speakers...and the list goes on)
OR
Say what you don’t like and why.
My Sonos
Icons far too large. Favourites show a list for See All while Playlist just shows BIG icons. Consistency needed.
Browse
Just fine. Does what it says.
Rooms
Icons far too big
Search
Even better than before. Again final view is BIG icons. Should be a list, or small icons for consistency across views.
More - a welcome consolidation of “other”
The main gripes are about big icons. Consistency needs to be established so as to provide icons or a list (personal favourite) across screens and results.
I rather like the small red room indicator at the bottom.
White screen. So what, my opinion. I listen to music, not look at the app, and know how to adjust the brightness on my iPad (for example) as this needs to be adjusted when reading in dimmer surroundings. Does nobody else adjust the brightness of their screen? Why not? If the screen brightness is OK for other things then it is perfectly OK for the app. Would I prefer the app to have a darker background...honestly...don’t care.
The queue behaviour still needs work for consistency.
Please add Artist back to the album view per-song, mainly for various artist albums but also albums where there were a lot of colabs
Moderation Edit: Added title of the topic into the post, then moved the post to app update feedback thread.
Moderation Edit: Added title of the topic into the post, then moved the post to app update feedback thread.
I can't get anything to play on my system since the update. It just keeps saying it can't connect. Apple Music, Pandora, etc all won't play
Userlevel 2
The UI designer needs to get fired
This is a first for me - posting the same text on more than one thread. But since the same ridiculous hyperbole is being posted on several threads I feel it is justified.
The new app has its flaws (more on that in a minute) but basically it is really simple to use. New things take a bit of getting used to. Most of those who have slammed the new app seem to have based their views on 2 minutes effort. The Sonos bar is key. I want to pick a room? Tap the Rooms button. Then a source? Tap Browse. The one inconvenience is that the bar doesn't appear on the Now Playing screen, but I hope that will change. But I just swipe down and there is the bar (and usually either the Rooms or Browse screen, saving me one of my button presses).
I came in this evening and in less than ten seconds of opening the app had my music library playing in the Living Room. How disastrous is that?
It is logically organised. Instead of a jumble of things on the main menu, Browse contains just sources (wish they had called it Sources), More contains the things I need much less often, like Settings and Setup. Search and Rooms are self evident. 'My Sonos' contains the things I have chosen myself and want to get at quickly. What is so ****** difficult?
Yes, the icons are too big. Yes the Sonos bar should be on EVERY screen. I'd like to see Playlists on the Browse screen and just selected playlists in My Sonos.
But come on guys. Get with it and make a bit of an effort. With a few tweaks this is going to be way better than 7.4. If you want to be left behind, that's your call.
The new app has its flaws (more on that in a minute) but basically it is really simple to use. New things take a bit of getting used to. Most of those who have slammed the new app seem to have based their views on 2 minutes effort. The Sonos bar is key. I want to pick a room? Tap the Rooms button. Then a source? Tap Browse. The one inconvenience is that the bar doesn't appear on the Now Playing screen, but I hope that will change. But I just swipe down and there is the bar (and usually either the Rooms or Browse screen, saving me one of my button presses).
I came in this evening and in less than ten seconds of opening the app had my music library playing in the Living Room. How disastrous is that?
It is logically organised. Instead of a jumble of things on the main menu, Browse contains just sources (wish they had called it Sources), More contains the things I need much less often, like Settings and Setup. Search and Rooms are self evident. 'My Sonos' contains the things I have chosen myself and want to get at quickly. What is so ****** difficult?
Yes, the icons are too big. Yes the Sonos bar should be on EVERY screen. I'd like to see Playlists on the Browse screen and just selected playlists in My Sonos.
But come on guys. Get with it and make a bit of an effort. With a few tweaks this is going to be way better than 7.4. If you want to be left behind, that's your call.
I have given up trying to add to Favorites! Its ridicously complicated!
Strange comment about what My Sonos gives you over browse ->music library->artists. It gives you your favourite artists instead of all of them. That is the point of favourites.
OK, the uninituitive behaviour of the queue versus the many "play" buttons is old news (year-old "won't fix" bugs and assorted UI failures). Agreed, that is a separate topic.
My problem with "favourites" isn't the "favourites", which are awesome and I use all the time. I simply don't understand why:
1. "My Sonos" lists only the first 8 alphabetically in each favourites category, then you need to use the "see all" to list 28 of your 32 favourites
2. The "My Sonos->Edit" option doesn't edit "My Sonos" (a dashboard of favourites and playlists) but instead allows you to delete favourites, thus promoting other favourites onto the My Sonos dashboard
3. There's the renaming of favourites, which I guess lets you hide your mate's Slayer collection behind a link that says "One Direction", so OK that's useful
Look, I get that it's hard to describe what Sonos actually does without sounding like a crazy person. And I know that "favourites" is a feature that didn't exist when I bought my Sonos, and I can work around the navigation issues. But I don't think I've seen a single change in two years that has actually improved the user experience.
Serious question: what advantages are there in renaming shortcuts to favourite things, other than hacking the alphabetical order to manipulate what gets shown on the "My Sonos" dashboard? Albums, artists (sorry, "others") and playlists already have names, what's the value in editing an item's "My Sonos dashboard" name, unless you want to name a playlist "AAA My awesome playlist please list this one first", or have a playlist named something different when navigating to it via "Playlists" versus "My Sonos" browsing?
Userlevel 1
Uggh.
My entire family absolutely hates this dreadful new interface.
Not intuitive is an understatement. In my opinion they really broke it, and I don’t understand why.
It seems just about everything is more difficult to accomplish other than selecting something from one of your 8 favorites.
I have 8 different speaker areas and it is such a hassle navigating among them compared to before.
I read the tutorial and was patient, and indeed am a fast learner. But my conclusion is that they really messed this up.
How about some incremental updates rather than a giant re-work that throws most familiarity out the window? That would allow some customer feedback.
I have submitted a suggestion that they permit users the ability to use an older version via rollback.
As an aside, the last thing I want is Amazon listening to everything I say in my home, so the integration is not something I will use.
BTW, I like change......but change for change sake is often a bad idea.
My entire family absolutely hates this dreadful new interface.
Not intuitive is an understatement. In my opinion they really broke it, and I don’t understand why.
It seems just about everything is more difficult to accomplish other than selecting something from one of your 8 favorites.
I have 8 different speaker areas and it is such a hassle navigating among them compared to before.
I read the tutorial and was patient, and indeed am a fast learner. But my conclusion is that they really messed this up.
How about some incremental updates rather than a giant re-work that throws most familiarity out the window? That would allow some customer feedback.
I have submitted a suggestion that they permit users the ability to use an older version via rollback.
As an aside, the last thing I want is Amazon listening to everything I say in my home, so the integration is not something I will use.
BTW, I like change......but change for change sake is often a bad idea.
Have to agree with all of the above posts. This iPhone update is terrible. I am a savvy tech user, but tech anxiety goes up every time I pick up the app to change rooms, etc. "Will I get it right this time? Or will I just end up switching my station to another room? Or will I find my Favorites? And how $%%^&%$# do I switch rooms? And why are the room buttons so hard to see on the white background? And groups? I don't even dare". I have told many people over years to buy Sonos (and have bought several for my self and as gifts), but am rethinking this.
On the other hand, maybe the terrible App is a marketing strategy to get people to move to voice activated Sonos One? How is that going to go?
On the other hand, maybe the terrible App is a marketing strategy to get people to move to voice activated Sonos One? How is that going to go?
I can deal with the not-so-great changes that were made to the app, but as I've said in another thread, what I cannot get passed is the awful UI design. If Sonos would just add an option to change the white theme to a nice (and slightly transparent) gray/dark theme and bring back that cool (and tastefully done) artwork overlay effect blurred the background, I would be very happy. Options would make most people happy, actually. There is no sleekness or character in this version. Nothing about the UI tells me that this app is the front-end controller/player to a high-end music system. It has altered my Sonos experience as a whole.
I agree that the Sonos app design aesthetic is subjective, that's why there should be user option/choices between white and dark themes. However, I don't see the Sonos app as being free, I see it as a necessary accessory to the Sonos hardware that had to be downloaded instead of included in the box, and the price for this necessary accessory is certainly baked into their hardware costs. I am sure Sonos enjoys beefy profit margins, and good for them, they should. But since the Sonos app is the face and/or front-end to Sonos hardware, I certainly do expect the UI/UX to be first rate. I purchased many Sonos speakers and subs because I was impressed with the Sonos experience, which encompasses both the hardware and the software.
To clarify, I also expect the UI/UX of a premium hi-fi product to be first rate (as it was when I originally purchased my system, and then it got better, and then it got a lot worse). But hey, I own Sony products, so I'm used to the "buy for the awesome performance, deal with the poor UI" mindset. Some of the Sonos design/implementation decisions (or "bugs", but I don't think Sonos would choose to classify them as such) are inexcusable. What they're tying to do is awesome. When the key software features (queue, playing, navigation, favourites etc) are in a more "complete" state, Sonos will be awesome. I even sort of support their "no user customisation" mantra. But it just feels like Sonos have given up on their core product while they chase shiny external systems integration.
I think you are missing the point. Nobody cares about “great new features” when they cannot do the basics. You personally think the app is “easy to use” but as you can see from these multiple threads - that is not the consensus. They took something that was intuitive and made it complex and/or buggy. Right now I am unclear if this sh@t does not work because I am doing it wrong or because it is buggy - but either way this means it is “broken”.
Like everyone else here, I am not worried about “being left behind”.......left behind because of what exactly? I don’t need new features that screw the easy experience.....really I don’t. I just want to easily play my music across multiple rooms......I had that and now I do not
Like everyone else here, I am not worried about “being left behind”.......left behind because of what exactly? I don’t need new features that screw the easy experience.....really I don’t. I just want to easily play my music across multiple rooms......I had that and now I do not
I think the people who are posting their disquiet with V8 are trying to let Sonos know their opinions. I don’t think they are trying to persuade others (who might be getting along with it just fine) how bad it is.
I’m not quite sure why those who are ‘pro’ V8 are so determined To persuade the rest of us how wrong we are.
Everyone’s opinion is perfectly valid for them. Equally, everyone can tell Sonos what they think, and don’t need to be told by others they are wrong.
And in that vein, I will post my opinion here (and yes I have posted it elsewhere). I have used every version since 2009. Inheritently, I am an idle so and so and wouldn’t have felt moved to post on here even if I was unhappy (I wasn’t). But now I am unhappy, and I want Sonos to know it — I don’t want to be told I am wrong. My opinion ?? Version 8 is crude in its execution and amateur in its appearance.
We are all entitled to our opinion.
Andrew
I’m not quite sure why those who are ‘pro’ V8 are so determined To persuade the rest of us how wrong we are.
Everyone’s opinion is perfectly valid for them. Equally, everyone can tell Sonos what they think, and don’t need to be told by others they are wrong.
And in that vein, I will post my opinion here (and yes I have posted it elsewhere). I have used every version since 2009. Inheritently, I am an idle so and so and wouldn’t have felt moved to post on here even if I was unhappy (I wasn’t). But now I am unhappy, and I want Sonos to know it — I don’t want to be told I am wrong. My opinion ?? Version 8 is crude in its execution and amateur in its appearance.
We are all entitled to our opinion.
Andrew
I’ve never complained about the Sonos app in my life because I have never found anything worth complaining about. You can defend the indefensible as much as you like. I am sure you have heard the expression “perception is reality” - seems that my perception like many others is that this thing is broke. You have a right to disagree in which case get off the thread but don”t tell me my perception is wrong because it differs from yours.
Hey. I just signed up for an account so I could chime in. It's really bad!!! I actually was showing people the old app as an example of a great user interface. There were so many things you could do in there and it was all easy. Now it's been a few weeks and I still can barely figure out how to do anything at least on the first try. You really should take a look at this and consider reverting. I don't understand why you would mess up something so good.
Userlevel 2
Personally, I thought the last of the Blue UI iterations were the best - very easy to use, especially on an iPad. In fact, if you use. aPC or Mac - it still looks like that - it was easy to see *everything* on the one page, and easy to access everything... Why change this? The last UI iteration (the black one) wasn't bad, not quite as intuitive, but it was easy enough to figure out quickly.
I installed a Sonos unit for a client a few days back, and my first experience with the new UI was that particular install. I'd not used my own system in a while, so didn't even realise there was a whole new UI.
When it came time to show the client how to use it... I actually had to tell them that I'll come back the next day and explain it because I, myself, couldn't figure it out in the usual 5 minutes it takes me to figure this stuff out. It wouldn't be so bad if the menu bar along the bottom stayed there, but it vanishes, leaving you to figure out how to actually leave the device you are on. When I got home, I got the hang of it in about 20-30 minutes of messing around, but honestly, it shouldn't be that hard. It takes more steps to do stuff - why design something the increases the difficulty of the workflow?
I design and install automation systems (RTI, Crestron), and if I delivered a UI like this, I wouldn't get paid.
I can see potential in it, to be sure, but it needs a few tweaks (like the menu bar staying put on the bottom, or at least being more intuitive to get to)
In terms of the theme - I *really* heat the all white trend, it hurts my eyes, but this is subjective, and all the more reason to offer a light and dark theme.
I installed a Sonos unit for a client a few days back, and my first experience with the new UI was that particular install. I'd not used my own system in a while, so didn't even realise there was a whole new UI.
When it came time to show the client how to use it... I actually had to tell them that I'll come back the next day and explain it because I, myself, couldn't figure it out in the usual 5 minutes it takes me to figure this stuff out. It wouldn't be so bad if the menu bar along the bottom stayed there, but it vanishes, leaving you to figure out how to actually leave the device you are on. When I got home, I got the hang of it in about 20-30 minutes of messing around, but honestly, it shouldn't be that hard. It takes more steps to do stuff - why design something the increases the difficulty of the workflow?
I design and install automation systems (RTI, Crestron), and if I delivered a UI like this, I wouldn't get paid.
I can see potential in it, to be sure, but it needs a few tweaks (like the menu bar staying put on the bottom, or at least being more intuitive to get to)
In terms of the theme - I *really* heat the all white trend, it hurts my eyes, but this is subjective, and all the more reason to offer a light and dark theme.
Userlevel 2
+1
It honestly ain’t that bad, I got used to the new layout almost immediately. It reminded me of the Apple Music app for iOS. It is more polished and modern. I think people just got super comfortable with the old version and when it is time for a design update, it messed up people’s routine. There are a few suggestions I have, which I’ve created a thread about, but they were the same suggestions I had from the old version.
Be honest.
Honest. OK. "Muscle memory" is how we manage Sonos. It's remembering that the "My Sonos" screen only shows the first 8 alphabetically of any albums/artists/playlists in your favourites, so I instinctively click "My Sonos->Others-See All" to get to my favourites on iOS (considering re-evaluating my favourites to better fit the My Sonos layout). I know that "artists" are called "others" on selected iOS screens. And I know that the desktop app does things completely differently. It's remembering that you can't just click on any album/playlist/song you're browsing and have it "just play", but that's OK, I know which "play all" buttons load up the queue with my selection, and which ones just insert your selection into yesterday's expired queue (Sonos having moved to an ephemeral "fresh queue starts when one expires" model, except when they didn't). I understand that the "play next" buttons have zero value when the queue is expired (and that Sonos can't or won't differentiate between playing, paused and expired queues when it comes to "play selection" buttons). I understand the difference between playing a track, and playing an album from track 6 to the end (awesome feature, should never have been the default action). Does the average new user understand any of this?
I don't have a problem with the general design of the Sonos apps. I actually really like the desktop app, iOS v7 was great, the new one could be great with some tweaking and consistency. But the little things are everything. Especially when Sonos refuses to do anything about them. It's called "User Experience".
Don't remember the UI being horrible, bought into Sonos late 2009 and watched it improve until the mid-2016 v7 release, which is terrible only because it's still unfinished/abandoned (also, desktop and mobile controllers are diverging because the desktop development seems to have stopped).
Interesting you mention "queue defaults", because they don't currently exist, except maybe in a Sonos blog post. Think about it - as you navigate through browsing down to the album/playlist/etc you want to play, the default play action switches from "ephemeral queue - default is replace and play" to "persistent queue - default is to insert regardless of whether it makes sense in the current playing/paused/expired queue context". We have all learned how to navigate the app, and how to understand whether a given play action does what you intuitively expect, or just random crazy behaviour that has to be learned. This is why I have such an issue with the Sonos UI - not the intended design (which is fine), but the reality of the unfinished software they have spent the last 15 months shipping.
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