Need possibility of adding delay in addition to the normal 70ms
Userlevel 1
Hi, I'm very excited about Sonos, and recently upgraded AV Receivers to be able to seamlessly switch inputs from CD/DVD/Phono/Sonos while using the Autoplay function in Sonos. Fantastic idea, (and very surprised not everyone's doing this), BUT I find that my system is no longer in sync (the Sonos P3's and P5 are ahead of the sound coming through the Connect via Hifi). I did not have this issue with the lower end Denon 1911, but I do now with the 3313. I can add delay with the 3313, but that doesn't help me since it's the other Sonos modules that are ahead of the Denon. Adding the possibility of adding delay (in addition to the required 70ms for processing) would make my system whole again.
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Yes, as I want to use the processing in the receiver as it gives better sound this delay setting must be solved in the Sonos speakers. It´s just another lipsync option.
Anything on this yet>
Sonos, this delaying audio option ifor sonos connect s a must have!!!!
Over two years and nothing? You should work on this on the beta version that you are working on!
i had the same problem with delay on my Bose 123 system, i changed the optical cabel to a analog. now it doesnt delay anymore
What is the status on this? It's getting ridiculous. The connect is a relatively expensive piece of kit, it can't be that hard to code a delay compensation on it's outputs.... can it? Without that feature it renders the connect useless in party mode for hundreds of your customers, it really should be addressed.
Userlevel 2
Same problem with a Bose Home Theathre, have gone through possible options in Bose´s Menu and nothing fixes the synch problem with Sonos.
Sonos, this delaying audio option ifor sonos connect s a must have!!!!
Over two years and nothing? You should work on this on the beta version that you are working on!
Sonos, this delaying audio option ifor sonos connect s a must have!!!!
Over two years and nothing? You should work on this on the beta version that you are working on!
Userlevel 2
Sonos, I've logged in here for the first time to register my support to get this issue fixed. Please!!!
Wow I am glad I found this thread. Im upgrading my receiver and was going to add on addititional Sonos speakers with the amazon order...I will be holding off on the Sonos for now. Glad this info is out there
Same problem here: AV receiver is adding delay due to digital signal processing (DSP).
I am a software engineer myself and I would be happy to help in any possible way during the development of this feature, testing using the BETA, etc.
Here I propose a simple solution for the development team: although I don't know about the internal details of the implementation which Sonos is using I assume that each player has an internal audio buffer.
In this case it is possible to play the buffered audio a few milliseconds ahead / after. If the buffer is big enough playing a few ms in advance would not be a problem. In my humble opinion, even starting the sound a few ms after in that particular device with negative delay settings is completely acceptable.
In the UI it would be necessary to add an expandable config section with the label "Advanced" in the room/device EQ settings where you can specify the delay. A slider with a range between -500ms and 500ms should be enough. The reset button would go back to a 0 value in the delay.
With this solution each sonos device would be playing the internal buffer with he specified delay. If developing the feature is too expensive due to testing/maintainibility for all the sonos devices, I think that this feature is a MUST at least in the Sonos Connect.
The main use of the sonos CONNECT is to pair it with an existing Hi-Fi system and most of them nowadays include some sort of DSP processing which delays the output signal.
Please don't hesitate to contact me for any question related to this topic.
Thanks in advance for your help.
I am a software engineer myself and I would be happy to help in any possible way during the development of this feature, testing using the BETA, etc.
Here I propose a simple solution for the development team: although I don't know about the internal details of the implementation which Sonos is using I assume that each player has an internal audio buffer.
In this case it is possible to play the buffered audio a few milliseconds ahead / after. If the buffer is big enough playing a few ms in advance would not be a problem. In my humble opinion, even starting the sound a few ms after in that particular device with negative delay settings is completely acceptable.
In the UI it would be necessary to add an expandable config section with the label "Advanced" in the room/device EQ settings where you can specify the delay. A slider with a range between -500ms and 500ms should be enough. The reset button would go back to a 0 value in the delay.
With this solution each sonos device would be playing the internal buffer with he specified delay. If developing the feature is too expensive due to testing/maintainibility for all the sonos devices, I think that this feature is a MUST at least in the Sonos Connect.
The main use of the sonos CONNECT is to pair it with an existing Hi-Fi system and most of them nowadays include some sort of DSP processing which delays the output signal.
Please don't hesitate to contact me for any question related to this topic.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Userlevel 7
+22
at this point only the Playbar has ability to adjust delay (for TV audio sync). It can be done and surprised it has not on the Connect.
How disappointing that Sonos doesn't support this. It's a deal killer for me.
Essential... if there's the functionality there to manually delay to synchronise sound for the PLAYBAR why not for the CONNECT? The echo between rooms is painful, particularly when we've spent hundreds of pounds on Sonos kit. Sort it out, please.
Please?
Userlevel 1
I should add that in regard to the need for a delay feature, Bet there's way more interest in this than the LIKES show. Lot's of folks probably try it, it's not in sync and give up at that point by just turning off the system with the best audio quality in their home that they should be enjoying Sonos through. Sonos is an awesome product and company and I give their tech support a 10, that's from an installer that uses support times X more than an end user. And I can understand how they have a strong interest in the KISS (keep it simple stupid!) factor as that is one of the best features of Sonos. Still, most of my clients rely on my tools+skills to setup and maintain their systems and I certainly possess the ability to measure and adjust some delays to line up the audio through multiple zones. And when you look at the questions on the Sonos forums it is easy to see that many end users are power user audiophiles that would use and understand advanced features like this as well. So, Sonos is the hands down leader for reliability, killer user interface and the added ability to deliver bit perfect audio as well if set up correctly. So my question: why not give us this bit more of pro level capability so we can build even better Sonos systems with an already stellar product? And while I'm at it, if delay were implemented across the Sonos product line, add an analog sub output to CONNECT + SONOS SUB capability as well. It would go a long way toward broadening the capabilities and from my POV, selling more Sonos.
Userlevel 1
As a pro AV integrator for a living, I would like to add to the requests for a delay feature in the Sonos players. The AV receiver and for that matter high end audio is certainly not dead. On over 50% of our Sonos business clients want to integrate Sonos with their very nice existing audio systems, many of them surround systems with DSP that delays the audio. Seems to me this would be a "soft" feature that could be implemented at low cost through Sonos update. For less advanced users, Sonos could setup by default with no delay, in an advanced menu select "enable delay" and adjust it from there. 50% of the systems we sell use a CONNECT through surround? I would say it's a vital feature. Thanks, David Smith Theater Design Northwest http://www.theaterdesignnw.com
Here's an article that betray's Sonos's attitude to our collective complaint. Straight from the mouth of one of the founders of the company: 'The A/V Receiver is Dead' http://tehparadox.com/forum/f28/sonos-v-receiver-dead-2654775/
LOL, this is the same answer I got two years ago. I no longer sell Sonos because of this shortcoming.
That would be fair. If they say they're never fixing this problem then everyone can make a decision what to do based on their individual circumstance. Look at these posts!
They should give indication on the boxes of their hardware 'Expect delay/echo/sync problems if used with modern A/V Receivers.'
I certainly was unaware of the problem when I purchased my Sonos components. And Best Buy, where I made my purchase, didn't mention anything. Did anyone else know before they bought Sonos speakers/system?
I suppose someone could say 'you should have done your research before buying.' That's somewhat fair, but, what am I supposed to do? Read every damn post in here before buying? They advertise the product as seamless and easy to use. It didn't occur to me that Sonos doesn't play nice with other audio components. And this is a MAJOR problem.
Granted, I decided to not to return my one Play 3 even though I found out about the problem once I hooked everything up. It's in the basement and you can't tell it's slightly out of sync. Regardless, I'm definitely not going to buy any more Sonos components unless the problem is fixed.
I personally am going to begin to look into another solution anyway because I'm tired of trying to read Sonos tea leaves. I have more rooms in my home where I want synced audio and it irks me that the one speaker I have doesn't work just right.
They should give indication on the boxes of their hardware 'Expect delay/echo/sync problems if used with modern A/V Receivers.'
I certainly was unaware of the problem when I purchased my Sonos components. And Best Buy, where I made my purchase, didn't mention anything. Did anyone else know before they bought Sonos speakers/system?
I suppose someone could say 'you should have done your research before buying.' That's somewhat fair, but, what am I supposed to do? Read every damn post in here before buying? They advertise the product as seamless and easy to use. It didn't occur to me that Sonos doesn't play nice with other audio components. And this is a MAJOR problem.
Granted, I decided to not to return my one Play 3 even though I found out about the problem once I hooked everything up. It's in the basement and you can't tell it's slightly out of sync. Regardless, I'm definitely not going to buy any more Sonos components unless the problem is fixed.
I personally am going to begin to look into another solution anyway because I'm tired of trying to read Sonos tea leaves. I have more rooms in my home where I want synced audio and it irks me that the one speaker I have doesn't work just right.
I think it would be in SONOS best interest to update us on this situation out of common courtesy. There's obviously enough people concerned with this problem that something should be addressed here in one way or another?
Thank You SONOS, your input would greatly be appreciated!
Thank You SONOS, your input would greatly be appreciated!
It is definitely technically possible and Sonos has to ability to implement it.
1. The Playbar has a the ability to change the delay.
2. I'm fairly certain that when the original Sonos speakers came out they HAD a delay feature that could be adjusted per speaker. Someone more familiar with the history of the Sonos product line and software might want to comment.
On these forums Sonos and other posters repeatedly take this tone that 'blames' the receiver for the lack of sync. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one component or manufacturer is to blame for the situation. The problem is both the receiver companies and Sonos aren't taking care of their customer's needs.
Take a look at all these posts on the 'sync' issue. There is a very real and compelling need for an audio system that meets the needs of both wired and wireless speakers while keeping the entire system in sync. The reality is that most people have a receiver with wired speakers (typically theater or TV room and maybe in a few other zones) but also want the sprinkle more speakers throughout their home.
Why won't Sonos invest in this software tweak? I'm pretty sure the delay option would just be a software update. Unless they package the feature in a new device as a money grab. I can only speculate. From the outside it appears that the company wants complete 'control' of their audio ecosystem. Kind of an Apple computers mentality. To me it reads 'Our product is so fabulous people will adjust their entire audio systems to fit Sonos.'
That's not remotely true for me. Sonos has a cool business model and a neat product but there it has more quality competition every day.
I'm in the same boat as most people here. I would buy between 3-4 more Play 3's if they had the delay feature. I like quality audio but I like it more when EVERYTHING in my house is in sync.
As it stands I'll stick with the one Play 3 I'm currently using. While I haven't found the solution yet, when something better comes along that fits my specific needs (wireless speaker technology that can seamlessly integrate with my current wired system and stay in sync), I'll get rid of my one Sonos speaker and buy the more complete product.
I personally don't intend to invest any more in Sonos until they invest in me.
1. The Playbar has a the ability to change the delay.
2. I'm fairly certain that when the original Sonos speakers came out they HAD a delay feature that could be adjusted per speaker. Someone more familiar with the history of the Sonos product line and software might want to comment.
On these forums Sonos and other posters repeatedly take this tone that 'blames' the receiver for the lack of sync. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one component or manufacturer is to blame for the situation. The problem is both the receiver companies and Sonos aren't taking care of their customer's needs.
Take a look at all these posts on the 'sync' issue. There is a very real and compelling need for an audio system that meets the needs of both wired and wireless speakers while keeping the entire system in sync. The reality is that most people have a receiver with wired speakers (typically theater or TV room and maybe in a few other zones) but also want the sprinkle more speakers throughout their home.
Why won't Sonos invest in this software tweak? I'm pretty sure the delay option would just be a software update. Unless they package the feature in a new device as a money grab. I can only speculate. From the outside it appears that the company wants complete 'control' of their audio ecosystem. Kind of an Apple computers mentality. To me it reads 'Our product is so fabulous people will adjust their entire audio systems to fit Sonos.'
That's not remotely true for me. Sonos has a cool business model and a neat product but there it has more quality competition every day.
I'm in the same boat as most people here. I would buy between 3-4 more Play 3's if they had the delay feature. I like quality audio but I like it more when EVERYTHING in my house is in sync.
As it stands I'll stick with the one Play 3 I'm currently using. While I haven't found the solution yet, when something better comes along that fits my specific needs (wireless speaker technology that can seamlessly integrate with my current wired system and stay in sync), I'll get rid of my one Sonos speaker and buy the more complete product.
I personally don't intend to invest any more in Sonos until they invest in me.
I would say it will never happen as it has been over 2 years and this issue still persists. Sonos know about it, I've even been messaged by them telling me to bypass the surround capabilities of my AV Receiver which completely misses the point of having a AV Receiver. I actually don't think they can implement a solution to this problem as if they could they would have done it by now! It is a shame because they have certainly lost further sales to me!
Any hint as to whether this is coming? I know you can't promise a date or anything, but a "yes" it's in the top 10 or something would be good.
I have a very simple problem that prohibits me from adding my SONOS amp as a pair of rear speakers to my computer. My computer presently has two basic "front" powered speakers on my desk. My office SONOS amp is on my credenza behind me. I want to connect the computer's "rear" speaker jack to the Line In on the SONOS so that I can have surround.
When I did this the delay was almost 1 second because of the SONOS compression. So I turned compression off. The delay lessened, but not enough to eliminate the echo caused by the delay. I then fiddled with my computer's Realtek HD Sound driver to change the virtual distance between the rear speakers and this did not have enough impact to eliminate the echo either.
Assuming that the SONOS signal is processed by software that creates this delay, wouldn't it be possible to add a setting in the next firmware update to bypass the signal processing (for Line In only) that creates any delay at all? This would allow anyone to marry a basic set of powered speakers with a second set of SONOS speakers with no echo.
Thanks
When I did this the delay was almost 1 second because of the SONOS compression. So I turned compression off. The delay lessened, but not enough to eliminate the echo caused by the delay. I then fiddled with my computer's Realtek HD Sound driver to change the virtual distance between the rear speakers and this did not have enough impact to eliminate the echo either.
Assuming that the SONOS signal is processed by software that creates this delay, wouldn't it be possible to add a setting in the next firmware update to bypass the signal processing (for Line In only) that creates any delay at all? This would allow anyone to marry a basic set of powered speakers with a second set of SONOS speakers with no echo.
Thanks
I would purchase 2-3 more play3s if sonos fixes this problem. The sonos system is obviously able to implement a delay because the system is capable of a lipsync delay.
Same Problem with a Denon AVR-3313. The connect device is the first device from Sonos where I am not satified. From an innocvative Company like Sonus it should be no issue to implement that once in the connect device one time.
Most people who buy the Connect device do so to integrate SONOS with an EXISTING expensive multi speaker setup. And who these days doesn't buy a surround sound receiver??? Most all of them perform processing which is the cause of the delay.
I've tried the suggested solution - Direct mode which improved the sync issues only slightly but in that mode, all I get are two speakers; left, right and the sub. Forget the other two sets that I have in the system!
SONOS, you have marketed a device that by it's very definition is supposed to integrate these systems into the SONOS eco-system. Your slogan that you so proudly display across your site needs some reconsideration!
"Warm, full-bodied sound that’s crystal clear at any volume. No skips, delays or drops. Perfect sync in every room."
However difficult this may be to code around based on a response further up this thread, you absolutely must address this. How can you continue to sell the Connect knowing that it will very likely NOT be in "Perfect Sync" with any of your other rooms where you have SONOS devices?
This shouldn't be a wish, it's a glaring short-coming of the SONOS system as it stands today and it contradicts your marketing entirely.
He's stating in the comment the model, the question is if he hears music 5.1 or just stereo.
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