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Group wifi settings - problems with streaming hi-res music

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Thanks @ratty . Diagnostics 1078413567 @Corry P 

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The strange thing is that it is doing what it did before, when it skips the last eight seconds of the first track, it then plays the next just from the Playbase, which is no longer wired. So why just from the Playbase? That is what I meant by not being sure anything has changed (apart from me disconnecting the Playbase from the Powerline of course)

ratty

It’s a mystery, which only a deeper look in the full diagnostics might reveal.

Corry P
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

The diagnostic you shared above has the Boost, but the later ones don’t - have you removed it again?

The problem is that the two rooms are having trouble synchronising. I suspect the issue may be due to the Devolo device transmitting WiFi on channel 6 - the same as SonosNet, and it's close to the Playbar. Can you please try SonosNet on channel 1? Settings » System » Network » Change SonosNet Channel » 1. Please also see if you can separate the Playbar and the Devolo somewhat. Thanks.

 

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Spent a good hour today with the hotline - seems like I am stuck when it comes to hi-res streaming: 

1 We tried using the Boost connected to the router - but the Boost is too far away from the Playbase and the concrete floors of the house are diminishing the data flow. Only option here would be to have the Boost wired to the router, but on the same floor as my set up, which wont work as we cannot trail a cable through the entire house.

2 We tried just using wifi (i.e. no Boost or wired Playbase), but there the dropouts for the speakers were showing that the wifi isnt strong enough

3 We tested the Playbase wired to the Magic 2 powerline but that too is causing interference/ dropouts, and the Sonos technician was having problems accessing the diagnostics never mind assessing them.

I have since reduced the quality on Quobuz to CD but same issues. Cant see what options remain but to return the Boost and stream MP3 compressed music. Unless someone here knows of a reliable way of extending wifi to such a quality that it delivers the data. The technician confirmed enough bandwidth is there coming into the house, just the pipeline for Sonos is the issue. Would a mesh network be better than Poweline? Unfortunately the wife wont allow me to take up the flooring or drill through the floor to get a cable up to the first floor :-)

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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

The diagnostic you shared above has the Boost, but the later ones don’t - have you removed it again?

The problem is that the two rooms are having trouble synchronising. I suspect the issue may be due to the Devolo device transmitting WiFi on channel 6 - the same as SonosNet, and it's close to the Playbar. Can you please try SonosNet on channel 1? Settings » System » Network » Change SonosNet Channel » 1. Please also see if you can separate the Playbar and the Devolo somewhat. Thanks.

 

 

Hi @Corry P - just saw your post. You will also see mine after speaking to one of your colleagues. I have tried different channels - and can try again. When you say to try separating the Playbase and Devolo - I guess you mean in terms of distance? That is dfficult as the plug socket is near the TV/Playbase. 

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I do have a long Ethernet cable going from my router to my PC that is in a different part of the ground floor. I could try placing the Boost there (may be closer horizontally) to the Playbase. Can you have a Boost connect to the Ethernet from the router, and then wire the PC from the Boost?

Corry P
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

When I wrote that, I didn’t realise you’d been in touch - it certainly explains all the diagnostics I found!

Yes - please separate the Playbase and Devolo physically - by at least a metre. Powerline devices do like to be connected directly to a socket rather than to an extension - can you not relocate it to another socket in the same room?

I would recommend a mesh system over a powerline, yes. Especially for use with Sonos. It would at least give you the option of wiring to a node (not ideal, but if it’s better than alternatives and it works, then great) instead of the router, and without involving your electricity cables. It all comes under the umbrella of “environment”, however, so nothing can be guaranteed. Careful placement of the nodes will have the biggest effect.

You may also find some additional information/help in my Troubleshooting Sonos on WiFi article:

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
Corry P
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I do have a long Ethernet cable going from my router to my PC that is in a different part of the ground floor. I could try placing the Boost there (may be closer horizontally) to the Playbase. Can you have a Boost connect to the Ethernet from the router, and then wire the PC from the Boost?

It seems we’re typing at the same time!

Technically yes, but the Boost’s ethernet connection is only 100Mbit so unless your internet speed is less than that, you’re cutting the access speed of the PC. In addition, any bandwidth that the PC uses is bandwidth that your Sonos system can’t use - and it’s likely to use all it can. I would instead recommend the purchase (around £20) of a 5 or 8 port gigabit ethernet switch to be put at the end of the long cable, and plug both the Boost and your PC into that.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Hey @Corry P - just tried moving the Boost so it is now almost immediately under the Playbase a floor above, and tried Channel 1. Seems to be still having issues, diagnostics is 110032160. Will take a look at your article too..

Corry P
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender

That didn’t go too well - the rooms didn’t get the message to switch to channel 1 and are now using WiFi as they can’t find SonosNet where they expect it.

Please switch back to channel 6, then make sure both the Playbase and the Play:3 are online (check that they play from the Sonos app - the app can take a minute to realise a room has gone offline) and show as WM:0 in the page in Settings » System » About My System before trying channel 1 again.

Alternatively, switch SonosNet back to channel 6 as above, but then tell your Devolo to broadcast on channel 1 instead of 6.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Thanks, I will look into the former. No idea how to change the Devolo broadcast channel? Any ideas

ratty

Thanks, I will look into the former. No idea how to change the Devolo broadcast channel? Any ideas

You can go via the app you downloaded, and touch the Magic WiFi adapter. For the settings it should open a browser page on the WiFi unit. 

I have a slight suspicion that Devolo defaults to a 40MHz channel width for 2.4GHz. Whilst you’re in the WiFi settings put it on 20MHz only.

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Reset to channel 6, then tried 1 again (after letting it run a few minutes). Hopefully this time? 1145407878

Corry P
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@DerkleineEnglaender 

That did the trick - they’re all on channel 1 now. Please test each room, then groups too.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Thanks @Corry P . What do you mean by testing each room? I had sent the diagnostics so you could perhaps see if enough data is getting through.

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Hmmm...doesn’t seem to have helped. Still skipping and jumping speakers 349273157

Corry P
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

We looked a bit deeper into the diagnostics and we’ve come to the conclusion that the CPU of your Playbase is maxing out and cannot keep up with playing music. It’s possible that this is due to CPU throttling (performance reducing) due to the high (not dangerous, but higher than we’d like to see) temperature inside the Playbase’s case. 

Please go into the Sonos app and remove the surrounds from the Playbase (Settings » System » Family Room » Remove Surrounds), then unplug the Playbase from power for 15 minutes or so. If the Playbase is on top of (or under?) anything that might be warming it up, please move or power off that device and test things while they’re as cold as they’re going to get.

Plug the Playbase back in and test Qobuz playback long term (an hour or so, but you can stop if you hear the issue). If the issue comes back, please submit another diagnostic and reply here with the number. Thanks.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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Thanks again @Corry P . Interesting chain of thought, I will try and report back. Does this thing happen now and again? Do I therefore assume that from a data package point of view, this latest set up (with the Boost more directly under the Playbase, and Channel 1 ) has helped? The PB is on a TV shelf, with a few cm above it (TV is not sat on it directly), so I would have thought that wont be an issue as they are designed for TVs to be place on them. Then, on the shelf below, there is the Sub. I can send a pic.

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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

We looked a bit deeper into the diagnostics and we’ve come to the conclusion that the CPU of your Playbase is maxing out and cannot keep up with playing music. It’s possible that this is due to CPU throttling (performance reducing) due to the high (not dangerous, but higher than we’d like to see) temperature inside the Playbase’s case. 

Please go into the Sonos app and remove the surrounds from the Playbase (Settings » System » Family Room » Remove Surrounds), then unplug the Playbase from power for 15 minutes or so. If the Playbase is on top of (or under?) anything that might be warming it up, please move or power off that device and test things while they’re as cold as they’re going to get.

Plug the Playbase back in and test Qobuz playback long term (an hour or so, but you can stop if you hear the issue). If the issue comes back, please submit another diagnostic and reply here with the number. Thanks.

By the way, when you say “plug the PB back in”, do you mean add the Surrounds back in too? I guess so, so that we fully test the system.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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Hi @DerkleineEnglaender 

Does this thing happen now and again? Do I therefore assume that from a data package point of view, this latest set up (with the Boost more directly under the Playbase, and Channel 1 ) has helped?

We’re still seeing a packet error rate of about 12% (12% of the time, the Boost has to re-transmit a failed packet of data) which is not ideal, but it was enough to distract me from the CPU reports and assume that was the problem. It still is a bit of a problem, but it may be one that the system can overcome so that you don’t hear dropouts. The fact that the issue you experience is the same as when the Playbase was wired, suggests that it was the CPU back then (diagnostics support this) and not the Devolo as I originally thought.

 

The PB is on a TV shelf, with a few cm above it (TV is not sat on it directly), so I would have thought that wont be an issue as they are designed for TVs to be place on them. Then, on the shelf below, there is the Sub. I can send a pic.

The first step I would take to try and remedy the lost packets is to move the Sub away from the Playbase - I appreciate that it’s at it’s tidiest there, but it may be the cause of the lost packets. If that’s going to be awkward, please remove the Sub from the Playbase in the app and remove power - if that increases network performance, then you can think about rearranging cables.

It does seem that the Playbase is solely responsible for it’s internal temperature (39 degrees, in case you were worried).

 

By the way, when you say “plug the PB back in”, do you mean add the Surrounds back in too? I guess so, so that we fully test the system.

Not yet please. We want to test if we get the same CPU usage when the Playbase is technically doing less work due to not being linked to the surrounds. Also, should we try a factory reset (don’t yet) it’s best to not have the surrounds set up (to aid setup later).

 

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
ratty

 

It does seem that the Playbase is solely responsible for it’s internal temperature (39 degrees, in case you were worried).

That’s well within bounds. The unit is spec’d to operate in 40 degrees ambient. If the CPU is throttling it suggests a hardware issue.

Corry P
Userlevel 7
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That’s well within bounds. The unit is spec’d to operate in 40 degrees ambient. If the CPU is throttling it suggests a hardware issue.

It’s starting to look that way, but we’d like to see what happens after a chance to cool down. A factory reset could also fix the issue if it’s not the temperature, but the CPU being maxed-out by a process (the high CPU usage could be throttling and thus less processing power, or a runaway process could be using all the normal processing power available).

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
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So to summarize: I will run just the PB (with the Boost or can I go back to wired Ethernet from the powerline) with Quobuz for an hour or so (disconnecting the Sub and Surrounds). Assuming that works (which I guess it will as that was never the issue), do I send a diagnostics after that time so you can see CPU performance? Once you have confirmed that we re-add the Sub and Surrounds? 

Sub can potentially be moved but will require some negotiation with the wife - so preferred option would be to keep it where it was.

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