Don't have eARC? Get Atmos w/ HD Fury "Arcana" - Pre-orders now LIVE!

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H
Userlevel 6
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Many thanks….my head is hurting :-)

So…. (can you please confirm the statements below are correct)

Sonos Arc can receive and play Dolby Atmos audio from ATV 4K in Dolby MAT format, but to do that successfully, you would need either;

  1. To passthrough the Atmos Audio to the Sonos Arc, from ATV4K via HDMI, using a suitable TV with eARC.
  2. To use the HDFury Arcana, to ensure the ATV4K is fooled into thinking a Atmos-capable eARC TV is connected and to then split off the Atmos audio and feed it via HDMI to the Sonos Arc (with a separate HDMI taking the video to the TV)

That is correct.

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
C

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

To delve into this a little deeper: 

Atmos can be sent over three different codecs: Dolby TrueHD (realistically Blu-ray only), Dolby Digital Plus (all the streaming services), and Dolby MAT (“Metadata-enhanced Audio Transport” - really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?). 

Dolby MAT is the oddball here so, of course, it’s what Apple uses (and Microsoft for Xbox One X/S). It’s really more of a container - the Apple TV decodes the Dolby bitstream into lossless multi-channel PCM audio, layers the Siri and system sounds on top of it, tops it off with the Atmos metadata where applicable, then packages it all up and sends it on to be played.

(Note: if you can’t tell, I’m VASTLY simplifying this, probably to the point of lunacy.) 

Since the Sonos Arc is able to decode all Dolby formats, it’s perfectly happy to play whatever’s in the Dolby MAT container, including Atmos. Which makes the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio all the more infuriating because it’s basically ALREADY playing multi-channel PCM audio, but only if it comes wrapped as Dolby MAT. Neat, huh? 

Non-Atmos content from the Apple TV is a little more complex, unfortunately, and we’re entering the realm of speculation here. On the Arcana, when I play Atmos content from the Apple TV 4K, I get “Dolby Atmos” in the “About my System” section of the Sonos App. When I play any other multichannel audio, however, I only get “Dolby Digital 5.1.” HD Fury speculates that this may have something to do with the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio, and I know that directly contradicts what I just said above. But the reality is that, for whatever reason, Dolby Digital Plus DOES NOT seem to be able to be passed from the Apple TV to the Arc via Arcana at this time. Whether this changes when Sonos finally puts out their multi-channel PCM update is something we’ll have to wait to see. 

Clear a mud? ;-) 

 

Many thanks….my head is hurting :-)

So…. (can you please confirm the statements below are correct)

Sonos Arc can receive and play Dolby Atmos audio from ATV 4K in Dolby MAT format, but to do that successfully, you would need either;

  1. To passthrough the Atmos Audio to the Sonos Arc, from ATV4K via HDMI, using a suitable TV with eARC.
  2. To use the HDFury Arcana, to ensure the ATV4K is fooled into thinking a Atmos-capable eARC TV is connected and to then split off the Atmos audio and feed it via HDMI to the Sonos Arc (with a separate HDMI taking the video to the TV)
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

To delve into this a little deeper: 

Atmos can be sent over three different codecs: Dolby TrueHD (realistically Blu-ray only), Dolby Digital Plus (all the streaming services), and Dolby MAT (“Metadata-enhanced Audio Transport” - really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?). 

Dolby MAT is the oddball here so, of course, it’s what Apple uses (and Microsoft for Xbox One X/S). It’s really more of a container - the Apple TV decodes the Dolby bitstream into lossless multi-channel PCM audio, layers the Siri and system sounds on top of it, tops it off with the Atmos metadata where applicable, then packages it all up and sends it on to be played.

(Note: if you can’t tell, I’m VASTLY simplifying this, probably to the point of lunacy.) 

Since the Sonos Arc is able to decode all Dolby formats, it’s perfectly happy to play whatever’s in the Dolby MAT container, including Atmos. Which makes the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio all the more infuriating because it’s basically ALREADY playing multi-channel PCM audio, but only if it comes wrapped as Dolby MAT. Neat, huh? 

Non-Atmos content from the Apple TV is a little more complex, unfortunately, and we’re entering the realm of speculation here. On the Arcana, when I play Atmos content from the Apple TV 4K, I get “Dolby Atmos” in the “About my System” section of the Sonos App. When I play any other multichannel audio, however, I only get “Dolby Digital 5.1.” HD Fury speculates that this may have something to do with the Arc’s inability to handle multi-channel PCM audio, and I know that directly contradicts what I just said above. But the reality is that, for whatever reason, Dolby Digital Plus DOES NOT seem to be able to be passed from the Apple TV to the Arc via Arcana at this time. Whether this changes when Sonos finally puts out their multi-channel PCM update is something we’ll have to wait to see. 

Clear a mud? ;-) 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

 

Thanks - so using a HDFury Arcana you still wouldn’t be able to watch Apple Movies with Dolby Atmos audio on an Apple TV 4K.

If correct, I don’t understand the point of using the device (in relation to Apple TV 4K) as for most users the main point of the Apple TV is to rent/buy Apple Movies.

Can anyone add info? Thanks.

 

Hey @CJG. The Sonos Arc DOES support the audio container Apple TV 4K uses to send Atmos (called Dolby MAT) so with an Arcana you CAN listen to Atmos from any app that supports it on Apple TV. I’ve already listened to Atmos on Apple TV via Arcana from Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime Video, and Apple TV+. That’s the entire point of the Arcana, after all, and it works great!

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
C

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

 

Thanks - so using a HDFury Arcana you still wouldn’t be able to watch Apple Movies with Dolby Atmos audio on an Apple TV 4K.

If correct, I don’t understand the point of using the device (in relation to Apple TV 4K) as for most users the main point of the Apple TV is to rent/buy Apple Movies.

Can anyone add info? Thanks.

 

melvimbe

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

 

I don’t have AT4K, and don’t fully get the issues that it has.  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that AT4K sends DD+ for all of it’s apps except for Apple +.  So Arcana would resolve issues of getting the DD+ signal  from AT4K to the Arc, but not LPCM.

 

And to be clear, with Arcana, audio pretty much bypassing the TV or PJ completely, so the display device does not need to have eARC or ARC capabilities at all.   Technically, you don’t even have to connect a display, though you won’t see anything of course.

Danny
C

Can someone please explain how the HDFury Arcana will enable an Apple TV 4k to successfully connect to a Sonos Arc and receive Atmos audio?

I understand (i think) how the Arcana splits the source HDMI signal and means that if you have an ARC TV (rather eARC) you will be able to connect….but how does it get around the main issue that Apple TV 4K only outputs Atmos in LPCM, and currently the Sonos Atmos can not receive LPCM Atmos audio?

J

I would just like to say thank you to @Highfalutintodd and @melvimbe for their  particularly informed, thoughtful and perceptive comments about the Arcana and the issues it addresses,  over the last few weeks.

Can't wait to get mine!

melvimbe

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

 

I am not at all surprised regarding CEC commands. Those sort of issues became apparent when the Beam was introduced.  It sounds to me like there won’t be any shipping delays due to testing.  Whatever minor issues that exist can be fixed with firmware updates.

 

Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

And yes @melvimbe, I think I saw @Highfalutintodd is a beta tester.

 

It is a vastly different support structure than Sonos, without a doubt.  They have the luxary of being smaller and not really having to worry too much about competition or media exposure since they don’t really have any of that anyway.

Danny
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Regarding the CEC mess, can you confirm whether the commands from the Arc itself to turn the TV on/off work?

Yes! Using an Apple TV, I can confirm that the Apple TV remote can and does turn the TV on and off. 

 

 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
Sjoop1985

Joined their Discord yesterday. Now I see where all the information on here was coming from! They are really transparent and helpful. Had a question answered by HDFury themselves within a few hours.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Regarding the CEC mess, can you confirm whether the commands from the Arc itself to turn the TV on/off work?

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans (John Lennon) --- Living room: Arc, Sub, 2x One - Kitchen: One - Bedroom: Play 3 - Office: Beam - Bathroom: Play 1
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

I am, indeed! My Arcana beta unit arrived on Tuesday and have been testing it since. 

The good news is that it does what it says on the tin - it lets you get Atmos from external sources. 

The only issues so far (that I’ve seen) have been regarding CEC control and, to be honest, I don’t particularly understand the intricacies of what all’s happening. What I CAN say is that HD Fury has been ridiculously responsive to concerns and have already pushed out no fewer than 5 firmware updates to correct issues in the last three days. For example, I was having an issue with the Apple TV remote not controlling the Arc volume, but a firmware update later all is well. 

I’d say we’re in the “fine tuning” stage in that it absolutely works as intended, but CEC is such a mish-mash of poorly implemented functionality across various devices that HD Fury is having to see how Arcana works in the real world with a variety of equipment and adjust accordingly.

 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
melvimbe

And the post below talks about how to get on the discord channel.

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/home-theater-228993/hd-fury-is-working-on-an-earc-solution-for-sonos-arc-full-audio-atmos-from-any-hdmi-sources-6842652?postid=16442048#post16442048

Danny
melvimbe

HD Fury has a discord channel where they were answer question and give out tidbits of information like this.

There is a link to get setup on their channel somewhere around here if you’re interested.  A different thread I believe.

 

Also regarding beta testers for Arcana, they are not under and NDAs are allowed and even encouraged to share their results in the discord channel.  A bit different from Sonos, although it’s obviously a much different situation.  They only have need a dozen or so testers really. I haven’t looked too closely, but haven’t seen any reported bugs.

 

@Highfalutintodd, are you one of the beta testers?

Danny
D
Userlevel 2
Badge +4

The latest I’ve heard is shipment for preorders is still September 15th, moved up from October 1st.  HDFury did send out beta units to a handful of testers last week, with many of them already arrived at the testers, so I would not expecting shipping to take too long on these.

Where do you get this information?

I am not doubting you, I just don't know where people are getting updates. 

melvimbe

The latest I’ve heard is shipment for preorders is still September 15th, moved up from October 1st.  HDFury did send out beta units to a handful of testers last week, with many of them already arrived at the testers, so I would not expecting shipping to take too long on these.

Danny
Sjoop1985

I noticed there are new "pre-release" demo vids on the product page... Release is coming soon!

Bit the bullet and ordered an Arc to replace my Playbar. My current setup is with a Projector (no ARC) and an audio extractor with optical out, so pre-ordered Arcana as well.

To my surprise, I got the Arc delivered today, within 3 days of ordering. I'm in the Netherlands, ordered with Sonos for a Trade Up.

So now I'm temporarily running the Arc on optical, anxiously refreshing HDFury's site for a definitive announcement on start of shipping that they promised for beginning of September. Never thought my Arc would get here before Arcana... First world problems.

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans (John Lennon) --- Living room: Arc, Sub, 2x One - Kitchen: One - Bedroom: Play 3 - Office: Beam - Bathroom: Play 1
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

 

 

 

Given how quickly time seems to be passing these days, september 15 will be here before I can blink and turn around twice! ;-) 


Is it September 15 yet?

Getting damn close. ;-)

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
Airgetlam

 

 

 

Given how quickly time seems to be passing these days, september 15 will be here before I can blink and turn around twice! ;-) 


Is it September 15 yet?

Bruce
D
Userlevel 2
Badge +4

Apologies, for my lack of technical knowledge.

I have a Samsung 55” Q9FN with only ARC (not E-ARC)  ,  Sonos Arc/Sub/Surrounds ,  Sky Q with UHD and with Disney Plus  and Sony UBP - X700 4K UHD Blu Ray Player.

I can get DD+ Atmos from Sky Q films/programmes (if they are in Atmos) but not through the Disney Plus App or through the 4K Blu-ray.  Will the HD Fury Arcana help me getting more Atmos Content from  Disney Plus and the 4K Blu-ray ?

Many Thanks.

Don’t know where you are based but in the UK/EU Disney+ has turned off Atmos support for the time-being to reduce bandwidth and support home-working. 

I was getting Atmos on Disney+ via my TV’s Disney+ app when it first started, then a couple months ago it suddenly disappeared. I contacted customer support and they confirmed they took the feature off but suggested it could be restored soon. I would think they will offer it with the release of Mulan in September. 
Arcana should allow you to get Atmos from your Blu Ray player and video game console, if it does what it says on the box. That’s why I am purchasing it. 
Having said all that, really, Atmos isn’t that common a feature on films yet. Its mostly just available on TV shows. There hasn’t yet been, in my opinion, a “killer app” for Atmos yet. The film Extraction on Netflix has been the best test I’ve had of the Arc’s capability since I got it. 

melvimbe

If you do end up getting an HDMI Switch, be sure to get a switch that can push 18 Gbps. Otherwise, you won’t get HDR10+ and you may be limiting your refresh rate depending on your source. Not to mention, it won’t have the bandwidth to push enough info to justify the Arcana.

Oooh thanks!

Any in particular you recommend? As inexpensive as possible ideally :)

 

Lots of options out there.  Just look for something that meets your specs/requirements and has good reviews.  This looks like a good option.

Danny
R
Userlevel 1

Really interested in this, not only to get the Atmos capability but to also help with the terrible lip sync from Sky Q that it claims to fix!

Quick question though - do I need to buy a HDMI switch too?  I can’t work it out...my inputs are as follows: Sky Q (UHD/Atmos), PS4, Apple TV.  As you can see, only one of those inputs supports Atmos and also happens to be the only one with lip sync issues.  Can I just plug the Sky Q into the Arcana and the other 2 into the TV like I would have done previously?

Thanks!

If you do end up getting an HDMI Switch, be sure to get a switch that can push 18 Gbps. Otherwise, you won’t get HDR10+ and you may be limiting your refresh rate depending on your source. Not to mention, it won’t have the bandwidth to push enough info to justify the Arcana.

Oooh thanks!

Any in particular you recommend? As inexpensive as possible ideally :)

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Thanks @melvimbe  - very helpful. Would I be right in saying that it would also help the SkyQ give full lossless Atmos as currently I only get DD+ Atmos  ? as my TV is limited to DD+ pass through. 

 

“Lossless” Atmos is only available on Blu-ray Discs, not streaming services. 

Atmos is just spatial metadata passed over another audio codec. It can be passed over Dolby Digital Plus (a “lossy” codec used on all streaming services) or Dolby TrueHD (a “lossless” codec basically only used on Blu-ray / 4K Blu-ray). Either way, it’s Atmos. 

The Arc supports Atmos over either codec. In a nutshell: 

Dolby Digital Plus + Atmos

  • Type: Lossy / low-bandwidth
  • HDMI-ARC: Yes
  • eARC: Yes
  • Available on: Compatible streaming platforms and content

Dolby TrueHD + Atmos

  • Type: Lossless / high-bandwidth
  • HDMI-ARC: No
  • eARC: Yes
  • Available on: Blu-ray Disc, UHD Blu-ray Disc 

Side note: A lot of people seem to get all worked up over “lossy” vs “lossless.” I honestly wouldn’t worry about it. Most audio you listen to day in and day out is “lossy” - streaming music services (Apple Music / Pandora / Spotify / etc.), streaming video services (Netflix, Prime Video, Disney Plus, etc.), every DVD you’ve ever heard, many Blu-ray Discs, satellite radio, etc. etc. And ALL video you watch is “lossy.” 

“Lossy” doesn’t mean “bad,” it just means some data has been eliminated to achieve smaller file sizes. The audio codecs Dolby and DTS have developed over the past 20+ years are really amazing and sound incredible. “Lossless” means you’re getting exactly what the sound mixers heard… but only if you’ve got audio equipment good enough to reproduce it. And while the Sonos Arc is very, very good, professionals are not mixing audio using soundbars. ;-) 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
J
Badge +1

Apologies, for my lack of technical knowledge.

I have a Samsung 55” Q9FN with only ARC (not E-ARC)  ,  Sonos Arc/Sub/Surrounds ,  Sky Q with UHD and with Disney Plus  and Sony UBP - X700 4K UHD Blu Ray Player.

I can get DD+ Atmos from Sky Q films/programmes (if they are in Atmos) but not through the Disney Plus App or through the 4K Blu-ray.  Will the HD Fury Arcana help me getting more Atmos Content from  Disney Plus and the 4K Blu-ray ?

Many Thanks.

 

It will definitely help for the 4K blu-ray.  That will be using TrueHD for atmos audio, which requires eARC that your TV can’t handle.  Regarding Disney+, that’s hard to say.  You should be able to get that now given that it uses DD+ the same your Sky Q. If your TV passes thorugh DD+ for SkyQ, not sure why it does not for Disney+.  Perhaps your Sky Q boxes doesn’t allow for DD+ Atmos on apps or something like that?  

 

I did see something sort of similar with my setup, which is also an Samsung ARC TV. I was getting DD+ Atmos for Amazon Prime, but not for netflix or disney +.  That was the case on internal apps and for fire TV cube.  I then got an Nvidia Shield and I am getting DD+ atmos on everything now.  I don’t know if Nvidia Shield is just better, or if the Fire TV and internal apps where just set to not play atmos before I installed Sonos Arc, and never adjusted properly.  I considered reinstalling the apps, but I haven’t really bothered sine I like Nvidia Shield better anyway.

Thanks @melvimbe  - very helpful. Would I be right in saying that it would also help the SkyQ give full lossless Atmos as currently I only get DD+ Atmos  ? as my TV is limited to DD+ pass through. 

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

 

Expanding on this a little more. I think we would be much better off if we had never had the ARC and eARC standards.  As you stated, people want simply, and ARC/eARC just are not simple.  it would have better if the TV standard was 4 inputs and 1 output for audio.   They people would clearly understand how it works. Audio/video data flows in one direction only and you would have plenty of options to pick the setup that makes the most sense for you.   

The Sonos Arc can work the same way, except it has a standard HDMI input rather than an HDMI output that’s actually in ARC/eARC input, that no one understands. If your TV can’t pass through the audio format properly, then all you would need is a HDMI splitter or matrix which are readily available today.  Arcana would not need to be invented.  

I don’t know if it’s really as bad as all that. Totally, 100% agreed that ARC/eARC are, conceptually, ridiculously difficult to grasp if you’re trying to understand how it actually works (my head is still spinning from learning on HD Fury’s Discord channel that the HDMI port on the Sonos Arc is actually an OUTPUT port).

FUNCTIONALLY, however, the beauty is that it’s fairly plug and play and to the user it just kind of works. Which is also the beauty of the Sonos Arc - you plug a single cable from the Arc to the TV and, voila, you’ve got audio. Now, granted, you may run into issues with what KIND of audio you’re getting (which is what’s led to so much gnashing of teeth - much of it from me - on these boards and to the creation of the Arcana). But for most people, they’re just going to know that they plugged it in and it worked. And that’s a powerful incentive, especially when, for most people, this stuff is all magic in the forest. I'm here to tell you that if I remove myself from the equation, I can think of exactly five total people I know who truly understand how their AV gear works. Everyone else just wants to watch TV which is why my phone rings when they can’t. 

 

 No disagreement here.  My point was that I don’t think many other soundbars are going to go the single HDMI eARC connection route that Sonos is going.  They will all have ARC/eARC capability, but I think they will still have inputs too.

Time will tell, for sure. It will be interesting to see where it goes. 

 

I might actually be a bit worse than that.  My teenage kids don’t even really care about TV much at all.  They are happy with their small screen.  But that could be something they ‘grow out of’.  But I digress. Point is, i agree with you.

THIS is an excellent point. I’ve got two boys, one 12 and one 9. Up until the pandemic we pretty fairly limited their screen time, but since we’ve been stuck at home more we’ve been letting them play their devices a bit more. And you’re right - their iPhone or iPad is their preferred consumption device, even when the TV is right there. The TV has become for either family viewing or for my wife and me when the kids are in bed. I don’t think that’s something that’s going away. 

 

As far as TV smart apps go, that felt like a gimic to sell TVs when it first came out, and it still kind of does. They are nice, yes, but feels like it’s going to be out of date before your TV is.  But that’s the nature of any all-in-one device.  They may do one thing really well, but the rest of it likely to be subpar.  

Though they’re not my cup of tea (you can pry my Apple TV from my cold dead hands), I don’t get the feeling that Smart TVs are a gimmick, at least not anymore. They may have started out that way, but I’m betting that most people are going to get their TV / movies this way from here on out - if they’re not already. They won’t understand why they would bother buying another box to do what their TV already does. 

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