Don't have eARC? Get Atmos w/ HD Fury "Arcana" - Pre-orders now LIVE!

Show first post
This topic has been closed for further comments. You can use the search bar to find a similar topic, or create a new one by clicking Create Topic at the top of the page.

220 replies

S

I was tempted by this, but by the time I add postage and tax I am at $250 Canadian. So I am going to hold off and see if Vizio update their firmware as my TV is a 2019 model. I get Atmos from USB’s plugged into the TV (DD+) so it can do it. It passes DD+ from my Roku but not atmos. So it’s almost there, if they chose (ha!) to do it. 

I am curious how it works for those of you that get it. 

The problem isn’t with your Vizio...it’s your Apple TV. Sonos Arc is backwards compatible with HDMI ARC and Dolby Digital + and your Vizio TV will pass that fine. Its the fact that Apple TVs will only pass Dolby True HD which your Vizio TV can’t pass and this capability likely won’t be given in a firmware update. 

H

@melvimbe Perfect and clear explanations. Correct me if I’m wrong. Since I’m going to use the Arcana/Diva with an AVR I think both can fix my problem. Either use Arcana connected to AVR’s Arc output or use Diva connected to one of the AVR’s inputs. But since I still need to use my TV’s remote and rely on its CEC to control my AVR, I think it’s a safer bet to stick with Arcana + ARC path.

melvimbe

@Hunt3r Regarding the statement on Diva, the Arc is not an AVR, though I suppose it could be more clear if they explicitly excluded audio equipment that only take HDMI-ARC/eARC.  What Diva is doing is essentially just passing the normal audio HDMI signal from source to audio equipment.  It does not convert that signal to HDMI-ARC/eARC.

Regarding the mention of ARC/eARC extraction, this means that the connection between your TV and Diva allows Diva to read the audio signal coming back through ARC/eARC signal, convert it to a normal HDMI audio signal, and send it to your audio equipment.  Essentially, it’s the opposite of the main function of the Arcana.  

Hopefully not confusing, but Arcana does have the ability to do ARC/eARC extraction as well, but instead of converting it to a normal HDMI audio signal, it just passes it on as ARC/eARC signal to the Sonos Arc.

 

Danny
H

Why not contact HDFury directly with your question?

I emailed them and I’m waiting for their response. Meanwhile, I asked the same question on avsforum as well.

Airgetlam

Why not contact HDFury directly with your question?

Bruce
H

Hi, 

I am about to buy Arcana to solve Arc audio issues but if Diva does everything that Arcana do, then I might want to get Diva for extra features. So my question is, can I use 4K Diva 18Gbps to solve the audio issues that Arcana suppose to fix?

 

 

Diva will not resolve the issues Arcana fixes. Diva does not have the capability of generating an eARC signal the way Arcana does.  Really, Arcana is the only device that isn’t a TV that can generate an ARC or eARC audio signal, and it does so without an extra processing and and such which can cause the audio and video to be out of sync.

HD Fury has hinted at the possibly that the next generation of their Diva/Vertex/Maestro products will have the Arcana functionality built in, but that next gen seems to be rather far off, at least a year I imagine.

 

Thanks for your detailed reply. The reason I asked about whether Diva supports the same feature is that I saw this on the Diva’s product page:

Diva allows any HDMI source (Blu-ray, UHD Blu-ray, media players, satellite receiver, game consoles, PCs, etc.) to be shown on any of the connected displays and any sources Full HDMI audio to be played on ANY AVR.
World First: Diva is also capable of extracting full audio from any TV ARC or eARC (HDMI2.1) up to Atmos High Bit Rate over True HD and forward it via 720p/1080p HDMI to ANY capable AVR input!

And also:

Full Audio port: Full HDMI/ARC/eARC Audio extraction via 720p/1080p self generated stream to feed any AVR input

 

melvimbe

Hi, 

I am about to buy Arcana to solve Arc audio issues but if Diva does everything that Arcana do, then I might want to get Diva for extra features. So my question is, can I use 4K Diva 18Gbps to solve the audio issues that Arcana suppose to fix?

 

 

Diva will not resolve the issues Arcana fixes. Diva does not have the capability of generating an eARC signal the way Arcana does.  Really, Arcana is the only device that isn’t a TV that can generate an ARC or eARC audio signal, and it does so without an extra processing and and such which can cause the audio and video to be out of sync.

HD Fury has hinted at the possibly that the next generation of their Diva/Vertex/Maestro products will have the Arcana functionality built in, but that next gen seems to be rather far off, at least a year I imagine.

 


My second question is, does Arcana or Diva add any latency due to processing. I'm asking because I want to use these devices for gaming purposes.

 

 

HD Fury’s website says that input lag is less than 1ms for each product.

 

Edit: Also, in the Arcana features it’s mentioned: “Allow DV content playback from LLDV capable source on any HDR10 display for improved picture quality”. I wonder how this feature works? Is there a web interface for setting up these kinds of settings like in Diva?

Thanks,

 

Arcana does not have a web interface.  It has it’s own LED screen and a dial on the side that allows you to change configurations.  If you’re asking how Arcana is able to accomplish this technically, I barely understand HDR and LLDV, much less how to convert between the two.  I’m not sure HD Fury wants to really share how they do though.

 

You can get answers from HD Fury directly by connecting to their Discord channel.  The information for that is on this thread somewhere.  HD Fury will also answer questions on the AVS forum.

Arcana - https://www.avsforum.com/threads/hdfury-arcana-earc-adapter-for-sonos-arc-and-bose-700-soundbars.3153792/page-14

Diva - https://www.avsforum.com/threads/hdfury-diva-owners-thread.3033360/page-96#post-60073685

There is probably more details in those threads regarding lag/latency, or you can just ask.

 

FYI, I it’s not as visible on the Arcana product page as it used to be, but if you pre-order Arcana + Diva (or some other options) you get a rather deep discount.  The ‘Quantity’ drop down list shows the discounts.  Don’t know if there will be a discount once Arcana is shipped.

Danny
H

Hi, 

I am about to buy Arcana to solve Arc audio issues but if Diva does everything that Arcana do, then I might want to get Diva for extra features. So my question is, can I use 4K Diva 18Gbps to solve the audio issues that Arcana suppose to fix?
My second question is, does Arcana or Diva add any latency due to processing. I'm asking because I want to use these devices for gaming purposes.

Edit: Also, in the Arcana features it’s mentioned: “Allow DV content playback from LLDV capable source on any HDR10 display for improved picture quality”. I wonder how this feature works? Is there a web interface for setting up these kinds of settings like in Diva?

Thanks,

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

I agree it will come down to set up, room shape and size, then ears!

Whatever happens i am sure there will be some slight difference, however the big thing for me is the difference the Sonos ARC has made. it is a truly awesome bit of kit despite the odd little niggle like lack of DTS and only one hdmi

Agreed! While DTS support wouldn’t suck, nor would more HDMI ports, that would make the Arc a different product. And it’s a pretty damn good product as it is. :-) 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
B
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

I’ve heard others say that TrueHD is noticeably better than DD+ in general.  I don’t really know if that’s psychosomatic or if it’s actually better.  The other aspect of this, particularly when atmos gets thrown in, is that you quickly get into the territory where the rooms acoustic characteristics plays a very large role.  Trueplay helps with this a lot, but when you’re counting on audio reflecting off walls and ceilings, you’re going to have rooms where it sounds great and others where you can’t hear much difference between TrueHD atoms and DD 5.1.

For me, I do notice some difference with atmos audio coming through, but not as much as I originally thought.  I am overall happy with it, and like the improvement over the playbar, for sure.  

Yeah, that’s why I’m not getting too worked up about it all. On paper, I’m sure TrueHD blows DD and DD+ out of the water in terms of sheer specs. In reality, though, I’m willing to bet it won't matter all that much. If you’ve got a serious (and seriously expensive) home theater system that can wring every bit of sound out of it, I’m sure TrueHD is amazing. For the rest of us, even “plain old” Dolby Digital is still really damn good. 

I still think most people don’t understand just how damn good all of these audio codecs are these days. Dolby and DTS and others have been working on these compression algorithms and making psychoacoustic magic for decades now and they’ve gotten ridiculously good at it. 

Plus, there are so many variables at play. Even if there’s a subtle difference like the TrueHD mix simply being a little LOUDER than a Dolby Digital Plus mix for the same movie, it could cause a person to perceive that the TrueHD mix is better (or vice versa).   

But, again, I’ll be happy to be surprised. Maybe TrueHD will blow me out of the water. Regardless, I’ve got really, really good sound quality that’s making me quite happy. ;-) 

I agree it will come down to set up, room shape and size, then ears!

Whatever happens i am sure there will be some slight difference, however the big thing for me is the difference the Sonos ARC has made. it is a truly awesome bit of kit despite the odd little niggle like lack of DTS and only one hdmi

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

I’ve heard others say that TrueHD is noticeably better than DD+ in general.  I don’t really know if that’s psychosomatic or if it’s actually better.  The other aspect of this, particularly when atmos gets thrown in, is that you quickly get into the territory where the rooms acoustic characteristics plays a very large role.  Trueplay helps with this a lot, but when you’re counting on audio reflecting off walls and ceilings, you’re going to have rooms where it sounds great and others where you can’t hear much difference between TrueHD atoms and DD 5.1.

For me, I do notice some difference with atmos audio coming through, but not as much as I originally thought.  I am overall happy with it, and like the improvement over the playbar, for sure.  

Yeah, that’s why I’m not getting too worked up about it all. On paper, I’m sure TrueHD blows DD and DD+ out of the water in terms of sheer specs. In reality, though, I’m willing to bet it won't matter all that much. If you’ve got a serious (and seriously expensive) home theater system that can wring every bit of sound out of it, I’m sure TrueHD is amazing. For the rest of us, even “plain old” Dolby Digital is still really damn good. 

I still think most people don’t understand just how damn good all of these audio codecs are these days. Dolby and DTS and others have been working on these compression algorithms and making psychoacoustic magic for decades now and they’ve gotten ridiculously good at it. 

Plus, there are so many variables at play. Even if there’s a subtle difference like the TrueHD mix simply being a little LOUDER than a Dolby Digital Plus mix for the same movie, it could cause a person to perceive that the TrueHD mix is better (or vice versa).   

But, again, I’ll be happy to be surprised. Maybe TrueHD will blow me out of the water. Regardless, I’ve got really, really good sound quality that’s making me quite happy. ;-) 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
melvimbe

I’ve heard others say that TrueHD is noticeably better than DD+ in general.  I don’t really know if that’s psychosomatic or if it’s actually better.  The other aspect of this, particularly when atmos gets thrown in, is that you quickly get into the territory where the rooms acoustic characteristics plays a very large role.  Trueplay helps with this a lot, but when you’re counting on audio reflecting off walls and ceilings, you’re going to have rooms where it sounds great and others where you can’t hear much difference between TrueHD atoms and DD 5.1.

For me, I do notice some difference with atmos audio coming through, but not as much as I originally thought.  I am overall happy with it, and like the improvement over the playbar, for sure.  

Danny
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Thank you for the quick reply.

I agree the DD+ sounds great anyway but i kind of secretly hoped that being able to put full fat Atmos from a 4k disc via my OPPO might have the edge somehow.

As you say the knowledge that you will have the best possible sound whatever the source and without having to buy a new TV (mine is LG B7) is a warm feeling.

Thanks to the Shield and my Plex collection, I’ve now got access to multiple pieces of the same content in TrueHD (with and without Atmos), Dolby Digital (transcoded from DTS), and Dolby Digital Plus / Atmos. I’ll see if I can start doing some critical listening tonight and will report back. 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
B
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

Thank you for the quick reply.

I agree the DD+ sounds great anyway but i kind of secretly hoped that being able to put full fat Atmos from a 4k disc via my OPPO might have the edge somehow.

As you say the knowledge that you will have the best possible sound whatever the source and without having to buy a new TV (mine is LG B7) is a warm feeling.

H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7


Shield are very good bits of kit and seem to handle lots of formats without any wobbles

 

So far I’m very impressed with the Shield’s capabilities… as a Plex server. I’ve had up to 7 direct HD streams running locally at once and it can easily handle at least 3 direct local 4K streams (and even a couple of HD streams at the same time!) as well. Would never have dreamed that I’d get Plex server performance that good from “just” a streaming box. 

The client side is more of a question. I don’t really like the interface (Apple TV guy here), the images looked really washed out until I found an obscure and poorly worded setting, and it doesn’t transcode DTS to Dolby Digital like Plex on Apple TV will without changing a setting (which then basically turns off TrueHD/Atmos output, which was the original reason I got the thing). 

So a mixed bag, but high marks for Plex server performance! 

 

As you are beta testing the Arcana with our new favourite bit of kit (Sonos ARC) can you indicate how much difference there is between 5.1 and full fat True HD Atmos ? As that is why most of us without Earc TV’s will be wanting the Arcana. I have to echo your thoughts on the HD Fury guys they are fantastic at customer service which is one of the reasons why I took the plunge.

Unfortunately, I haven’t done any critical A/B listening tests yet. I’ve been more focused on getting everything working and then I got distracted by moving my Plex server over to the Shield, and the kids are doing school from home so I can’t have it loud during the day, etc. etc. What I’ve heard so far, though, has sounded great. However, what I’ve heard from Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus has sounded great so far, too. In the little bit that I’ve heard so far, my ears can’t immediately tell a difference. Or certainly not a major one. When I do get around to critical listening tests, I’ll be surprised if I hear a difference that blows me out of the water. More than likely it will be an incremental improvement, but I’m happy to be proven wrong. 

Also, I’m not going to get myself too worked up over it. No one, hopefully, watches movies switching back and forth between sound formats so I’ll just be happy to choose the best available format and sit back and enjoy a movie or show knowing that I’ve got the best possible sound quality. YMMV, of course. 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
B
Userlevel 2
Badge +1

It’s off topic, but I got a Shield over the summer and have rather impressed with it.  I got it as I wanted a 2nd streamer for various reasons, heard good things about it, and wanted something that was streaming service agnostic.   Performance wise, it’s much better than FireTV or my other option Samsung’s internal apps. I pretty much use it 90% of the time now  Much more customizable.  Didn’t even consider Plex at the time, but set that up and been very happy with that. I use plex primarily as a music server, but now I’m considering building a video library as well.  

I’m going to go pick one up today to try it out after all. I’ve got a buddy who speaks very highly of it and at this point I might as well have the ability to have the full audio quality from my ripped BDs. (Right? Right….? :no_mouth:)

Plus, I’ve been toying around with the idea of using it as a Plex server itself as supposedly it’s pretty capable. And that would get the Plex server off my daily driver iMac and onto something dedicated, so that could be good. We’ll see! 


Shield are very good bits of kit and seem to handle lots of formats without any wobbles

As you are beta testing the Arcana with our new favourite bit of kit (Sonos ARC) can you indicate how much difference there is between 5.1 and full fat True HD Atmos ? As that is why most of us without Earc TV’s will be wanting the Arcana. I have to echo your thoughts on the HD Fury guys they are fantastic at customer service which is one of the reasons why I took the plunge.

Airgetlam

It may be a simple thing, it may not. It depends on the code. I’ve seen quite a few ‘simple’ suggestions that have not been implemented. I always have to assume it’s not because Sonos enjoys frustrating its users, but there are reasons that we don’t know, which could often be Code/path complexity. 

Bruce
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

It would be nice if Sonos App can display Dolby Atmos “TrueHD” or “MAT” instead of the generic Dolby Atmos.  It is able to distinguish Dolby Atmos (DD+) in “About my system”.

There have been a couple of threads on this. I’d say most of us are in agreement that the now playing screen in the app could and should be much more descriptive than it currently is. At a minimum, I’d like for it to display whatever audio format is currently being displayed in the About My System screen. Such a simple thing but would be a nice touch. 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
M
Userlevel 1
Badge

It would be nice if Sonos App can display Dolby Atmos “TrueHD” or “MAT” instead of the generic Dolby Atmos.  It is able to distinguish Dolby Atmos (DD+) in “About my system”.

Sjoop1985

Update for anyone here that is not on Discord:

HDFury just confirmed that they will start shipping on September 15th, approx. 400 units a day, to finish on the 19th. Pre orders are now at approx 1400, so by that math they would either finish early, or it means that they expect to have the 1900 units they refer to on their website ready to ship on the 15th.

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans (John Lennon) --- Living room: Arc, Sub, 2x One - Kitchen: One - Bedroom: Play 3 - Office: Beam - Bathroom: Play 1
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Interesting update! Another of the Arcana beta testers informed me that if you have Dolby Atmos / E-AC3 content on a Plex server, it will actually play as Atmos on an Apple TV 4K via Arcana and the Plex app IF you are using the “Old Player” (buried within the Plex app settings). 

I’ve tried this and can confirm that it’s true and works! I don’t have much in the way of Atmos / E-AC3 content (the Leaf and Amaze trailers, some test tones, a handful of other material I’ve downloaded), but it’s pretty awesome to know that this works!

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

It’s off topic, but I got a Shield over the summer and have rather impressed with it.  I got it as I wanted a 2nd streamer for various reasons, heard good things about it, and wanted something that was streaming service agnostic.   Performance wise, it’s much better than FireTV or my other option Samsung’s internal apps. I pretty much use it 90% of the time now  Much more customizable.  Didn’t even consider Plex at the time, but set that up and been very happy with that. I use plex primarily as a music server, but now I’m considering building a video library as well.  

I’m going to go pick one up today to try it out after all. I’ve got a buddy who speaks very highly of it and at this point I might as well have the ability to have the full audio quality from my ripped BDs. (Right? Right….? :no_mouth:)

Plus, I’ve been toying around with the idea of using it as a Plex server itself as supposedly it’s pretty capable. And that would get the Plex server off my daily driver iMac and onto something dedicated, so that could be good. We’ll see! 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
melvimbe

It’s off topic, but I got a Shield over the summer and have rather impressed with it.  I got it as I wanted a 2nd streamer for various reasons, heard good things about it, and wanted something that was streaming service agnostic.   Performance wise, it’s much better than FireTV or my other option Samsung’s internal apps. I pretty much use it 90% of the time now  Much more customizable.  Didn’t even consider Plex at the time, but set that up and been very happy with that. I use plex primarily as a music server, but now I’m considering building a video library as well.  

Danny
H
Userlevel 6
Badge +7

@Highfalutintodd  Thanks for the explanation. This is one of the reasons why I avoid ATV4K discussions for the most part.  Everything else regarding audio is rather complicated, but ATV4K takes it to another level.

Tell me about it. I’ve learned more about Dolby MAT in the last few months than I’d ever want to and I STILL don’t think I fully grok it. And the only reason I dug into it as much as I did was a stubborn insistence on learning WHY OH WHY Plex wouldn’t / couldn’t pass TrueHD/Atmos from the Apple TV (because as nice as I’m sure it is, I really don’t feel like buying an Nvidia Shield for this one purpose). From there, I just kept following it down the rabbit hole and I’m still waiting for someone to go, nope, sorry kid, you’ve got it all wrong, here’s how it REALLY works. 

But until that day comes, I think my explanation is accurate. Or, in the immortal words of Douglas Adams, I’ll choose to believe that it’s “definitively inaccurate” until otherwise proven wrong. ;-) 

Arc + Sub 3 + One SLs = Awesome and Loving It!
melvimbe

@Highfalutintodd  Thanks for the explanation. This is one of the reasons why I avoid ATV4K discussions for the most part.  Everything else regarding audio is rather complicated, but ATV4K takes it to another level.

Danny
Terms & ConditionsCookie settings