Answered

Best setup for large wt room. 2 open areas

O
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Video Explanation here:

https://www.loom.com/share/0766f07c569e490c9e0a4a0ba4520840

Have access to:

x2 Sub gen 3

X6 SL Ones

X3 Fives
x1 Arc

 

  1. Should I have the subs connected and on the same wall? Or should I keep the sub 2 connected the Five in the medium room?
  2. Also, the sub connected to the arc in the large room isn’t really shaking or rattling the room at all. I honestly was expecting a very large boom for the price. Am I doing something wrong with the sub connected to the arc?

    3. Is this the best set up for loud music that could shake the room if needed?
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Best answer by AjTrek1 18 May 2023, 10:38

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35 replies

buzz

SONOS is not designed for this sort of application. 

If you attempt to show a video, you will notice a lip sync issue between ARC and the other speakers. In very specific situations you may be able to minimize the issue, but this ability is tied to the specific equipment involved and I will not attempt to describe possible equipment combinations that might minimize the issue because a software update might compromise a previously acceptable situation.

You can add a second SUB to ARC. Placing SUB in a room corner will increase its impact. You can also add a SUB to each single or pair of ONE’s and FIVE’s. Room “shake” is mostly a bass characteristic. FIVE’s will bellow louder than ONE’s.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Hi

If you really want to rattle the room(s) as you say below is my suggested Sonos layout. 

  • The Arc needs to go. It is intended for movies first and music second. It also may add unwanted color to music.
  • The One’s should go as well. Mixing One’s with Five’s...people will hear the difference in the dynamics of the music when in proximity of one versus the other.
  • All speakers should be Five’s. They will deliver the best dynamic. 
  • None of the Fives should be in a stereo pair. Creating a stereo pair means that depending upon the persons position in the room they may lose information from the left or right speaker creating a disorientation. Having each speaker play as an independent unit means no matter the persons position in the room they all hear the same audio.
  • Each sub will only be bonded to a single Five. When grouped all speakers will benefit.
  • The subs should be placed where they can best perform which is typically in a corner.

Alternate Option for the room on the right would place the Fives on the same wall as the doors. Doing so will push the audio towards the middle room; as do the speakers on the far left wall. .

That’s my suggestion. I realize it may be a bit expensive; but that’s how I would sound the room(s). Some may suggest Sonos In-Ceiing speakers by Sonance. IMO you will not get the dynamics you want versus the Fives.

 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
buzz

SUB effectiveness varies with their location in the room. You can explore this while walking the room, very close to the walls. Play a thumping track while carrying a handful of Post-It’s and a magic marker. As you walk you’ll discover locations where the bass is accentuated. Deposit a Post-It here and continue the walk. You’ll also discover a few locations where the bass seems doubly accentuated. Mark these Post-It’s with !!. The Post-It locations are known as “peaks” and you will notice that they are more or less regularly distributed in the space. About midway between the peaks is a “null” where the bass will be noticeably less. This is a symmetric effect. By this I mean that SUB’s placed at peaks will be more efficient at delivering bass into the room. Obviously you’ll want to place SUB’s at !! peaks in this application.

buzz

Not much because you will be playing the same music. Balancing the levels might not be very intuitive.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Thanks for the update!

Typically the One’s should only be 8 ft above floor, mounted on the North and South walls and angled slightly downward.

The subs should be in the corners and resting on the floor for optimal affect.

Subs being stolen…didn’t see that one coming 🫤. Given that people coming to your gym are in pretty good shape…I still can’t see someone casually walking out with a sub unnoticed (they aren’t exactly feather lite) 😅.

You could remove them each night and secure them in a locked room/closet. You’d have to mark each sub so that each one is returned to the same spot. You could outline the floor placement with tape to place the sub inside of it. However, being positioned 1 inch off center left or right shouldn’t affect the tuning.

Question: How were you planning to mount the subs???

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
buzz

The physics couldn’t care less about the possibility of theft. Placing SUB in a corner will increase its efficiency. A three way corner (floor or ceiling) is more efficient than a two way corner (wall/wall, wall/floor, or wall/ceiling). The peaks and nulls that I mentioned above actually occur in three dimensions. A taller or shorter person on my Post-It parade will have slightly different results and once you are adept at finding peaks and nulls, you’ll be able to discover smaller peaks and nulls in three dimensions throughout the room.

Likely you have a drop ceiling. In this case SUB will be more efficient on a floor corner than a ceiling corner.

I recommend mounting the ONE’s above the crowds. Making a point of mounting them as high as possible, is not the most productive use of their output. To some extent the highs of any speaker beam and the beam apex angle decreases as frequency increases. If you want to mount the speakers very high, angle them toward the coverage area.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

OK…

  1. I’d still ditch the Arc 😂
  2. I’d move the Five’s in the main room and place one on the North wall and the other on the South wall where the Arc is now. Your current positioning of those speakers has music radiating into the face of some of your patrons. You want the music to ‘sweep” over you patrons.
  3. The One’s currently on the North wall I’d place in opposite corners diagonally across for each other. I’d acquire two more One’s and place them diagonally in the other corners.
  4. The Five in the room on the right I’d leave in place. The One’s currency in that room I’d place in opposite corners diagonally across for each other I’d acquire two more One’s and place them in opposing corners as I suggested above.
  5. I recommend another Five positioned between the One’s on the curved wall.
  6. Acquiring a 3rd Sub for the room with the curved wall is recommended.
  7. Go with Option 6 instead of option 5; if you just want to get more rumble. 😅
  8. Alternatively, you can make the recommended adjustments and ignore those in red...but still ditch the Arc! 

OK...you’re still spending more money...I get that. However, Sonos One’s, Fives and Subs can be purchased on eBay for 60% to 75% of original retail. As an eBay seller myself your cost after tax and shipping would probably equal the same as if you purchased the products new at retail which is $2,224 (with no tax). It could be even less if the seller offers Free Shipping and/or a Best Offer. 

That’s all I have. Good luck with whatever decision you make! 👍

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

That looks great!

The only change I’d make would be to move the Sub (south end of Main room) into the same area as the Five on the far left. Place it in the (south) corner below the One. You can move it back later or add another sub depending upon how things sound.  

The nice thing about the subs is that you can move them about to get the best overall effect. You may have to experiment with different locations before settling on the best one.

Remember, that when using Trueplay you’ll have to tune each speaker individually. Each Five/Sub combo will Trueplay as a single unit. Make sure you’re well rested on tuning day! 😂

I guess your kids are in bed? FYI, that’s where I'm headed. So, if you reply tonite I probably won't respond until tomorrow afternoon. I have to be up a 3:30AM tomorrow_bummer!! 😅

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
buzz

As long as the chain does not rattle (perhaps rubber covered) I don’t think that there will be a major impact on sound if you looped an anchor chain through the port.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@onac5656

Hi

The Fives should be mounted at same height as the One’s.

The mount you are considering for the Sub is not a security mount. It just attaches to the wall and the sub is hung from a hook through the port and held in place via suction cups.

Removing the subs at night would be my choice. Putting a chain through the port as suggested by @buzz may stop the theft but you may still wind up with a damaged sub.

Thieves tend to get frustrated when they can’t get their way and then try to destroy the object of their desire. Think taking a hammer to the sub. Dealing with high schoolers the rage to destroy what they can’t have IMO would be very high.

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
O
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Awesome!

So you do not recommend pairing the 2 One that are in each corner. 

10 SL One’s would:

  • Sonos Pair 1 = Gym One

Not looking forward to the true play aspect. 

Have everything purchased but 2 additional fives. Getting those now!
 

buzz

I recommend wiring as many units as possible.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Bass is non-directional. When the unit is properly positioned you should not be able to discern where the sub is located; unless you are standing in very close proximity. However the sub does need to be in the same room. 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
O
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Update:

Only missing 2 Ones and a Sub, which should be here by Thursday.

 

All the new recommendations / speakers /

suns are plugged in and currently on the floor and the rooms are already blasting ! Can’t wait till I get them mounted.

 

question do I want the ones as high as possible in the corner of the walls? 

I Might have to mount the subs to keep them from getting stolen. Should I still find a corner for them?

 

appreciate all the help! Expensive but a huge difference

 

buzz

With regard to Trueplay, it was not designed do deal with this sort of layout. Trueplay assumes a Livingroom sort of environment laid out as a single SONOS “Room”. Physics is still physics, of course, but this case is too complicated for Trueplay. That said, Trueplay might be productive and is worth an experiment. Don’t be afraid to adjust things to your taste.

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Just checking. How did your project turn out? 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
O
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Really appreciate the feedback.

the system is used 99% for music so not too concerned with the lip sync aspect.

 

O
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This is incredible feedback.

 

I wish I asked this before I purchased the speakers or I would have followed your directions to a T.

 

Any recommendations if you can’t get rid of the my current set up. How would you place 
 

x2 Sub gen 3

X6 SL Ones

X3 Fives
x1 Arc

 

Thanks again!

O
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Gunna dive into this once the kids go to sleep.

 

THANK YOU!!!

Airgetlam

Just as a note, if you purchased these from Sonos originally, there is a return period. 

Bruce
AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

@onac5656 

Any news regarding your project?

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
O
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Thanks for the update!

Typically the One’s should only be 8 ft above floor, mounted on the North and South walls and angled slightly downward.

The subs should be in the corners and resting on the floor for optimal affect.

Subs being stolen…didn’t see that one coming 🫤. Given that people coming to your gym are in pretty good shape…I still can’t see someone casually walking out with a sub unnoticed (they aren’t exactly feather lite) 😅.

You could remove them each night and secure them in a locked room/closet. You’d have to mark each sub so that each one is returned to the same spot. You could outline the floor placement with tape to place the sub inside of it. However, being positioned 1 inch off center left or right shouldn’t affect the tuning.

Question: How were you planning to mount the subs???

 

Thanks for the 8ft above floor feedback for the one’s, that is now being implemented on installation. 

What is your recommended above floor height for the 5’s? 

 

Yea this is a high school gym and has a good amount of foot traction with outsiders. Not just our kids but outsiders have to walkthrough the gym to get to the wrestling room. NOT ideal but I like your idea to just lock them up each day then put back at the same spot. 

Here’s the link to mounting the subs I was going to use:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Tt7slKUKLgL/p_870SUBB/Flexson-FLXSUBB.html?XVINQ=GZ0&XVVer=T5G&awcr=628588405846&awdv=c&awnw=g&awug=9021756&awkw=pla-298164792395&awmt=&awat=pla&gclid=CjwKCAjw04yjBhApEiwAJcvNoSrdCiuqOhlzvp979fd4tRJ28dTE7Gp37RIXmQnjzXUD657M2XajohoCz3AQAvD_BwE

 

 

 

O
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OK…

  1. I’d still ditch the Arc 😂
  2. I’d move the Five’s in the main room and place one on the North wall and the other on the South wall where the Arc is now. Your current positioning of those speakers has music radiating into the face of some of your patrons. You want the music to ‘sweep” over you patrons.
  3. The One’s currently on the North wall I’d place in opposite corners diagonally across for each other. I’d acquire two more One’s and place them diagonally in the other corners.
  4. The Five in the room on the right I’d leave in place. The One’s currency in that room I’d place in opposite corners diagonally across for each other I’d acquire two more One’s and place them in opposing corners as I suggested above.
  5. I recommend another Five positioned between the One’s on the curved wall.
  6. Acquiring a 3rd Sub for the room with the curved wall is recommended.
  7. Go with Option 6 instead of option 5; if you just want to get more rumble. 😅
  8. Alternatively, you can make the recommended adjustments and ignore those in red...but still ditch the Arc! 

OK...you’re still spending more money...I get that. However, Sonos One’s, Fives and Subs can be purchased on eBay for 60% to 75% of original retail. As an eBay seller myself your cost after tax and shipping would probably equal the same as if you purchased the products new at retail which is $2,224 (with no tax). It could be even less if the seller offers Free Shipping and/or a Best Offer. 

That’s all I have. Good luck with whatever decision you make! 👍

This is what I came up with your instructions. Any other modifications besides ideally adding a 4th sub.

Thanks again for this! 

O
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Meeting with the install guy tomorrow, will provide your exact feedback for implementation. 

So the Sub in the small room should go into a corner, Does it matter which one?

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Meeting with the install guy tomorrow, will provide your exact feedback for implementation. 

So the Sub in the small room should go into a corner, Does it matter which one?

It doesn’t matter which sub as they are all the same in size. The only difference might be Gen 1, 2 or 3 which really won’t make a difference in your scenario. All subs should be bonded to a Five. All subs should be placed in a corner for maximum affect in a triangle position whenever possible. That gives you the benefit of two walls and the floor. If you decide to lock them up at night you need to mark each sub so that you return it to the same Five it was originally bonded to. 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
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