Before you buy any SONOS equipment to achieve a 5.1 setup please consider this: a Denon AVRX2400 AV Amp, Elac CINEMA 5.1 speaker system, all cables professionally installed behind the walls gives you true home cinema with all the surround sound codecs you could ever want with no cables showing for way less than £1000 (see Richer Sound web site for prices). Or spend £1700 on a SONOS setup and get stereo or Dolby Digital only plus you may have to buy a new DVD player to play your UHD DVD’s, a HDMI Switch then deal with lip sync issues etc, etc.
SONOS do speakers, great speakers, but only for music. They are stealing money from people wanting 5.1 for their TV. The system I suggest costs at least £700 less, hides all the wires (what we all want) and sounds much, much better. Go mad, stick a couple of speakers in the ceiling and get real Dolby Atmos for £150 more and still save yourself £550. I have begged SONOS to tell me if they are developing a surround sound product with HDMI and more choice of listening eg DTS, Dolby X etc but they point blank refuse to discuss future products stating they are catering for the “modern listener”. That put me in my place. SONOS remind me of great companies who made world class products like Blackberry, Blockbuster, Compaq and SAAB, just a minute, they all went out of business because they didn’t produce what their customers wanted at a competitive price (no pedants please, I know there were other factors which meant these companies went bust, I am just illustrating a point). Are SONOS going down the same route? Think about it while you are watching your new laser disc.
I would be interested to hear any arguments against my proposed SONOS alternative system.
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Yeah, the OP basically admitted this was a work right here:
Kumar my friend, A title has two main purposes: (1) grab the attention of potential readers and (2) serve as a point of reference. There are many arguments against the content of my posts, which was the whole point, but I think the level of responses and the passion of some of the replies would suggest if nothing else, I nailed the title.
Well, you can get your 5.1 but it involves jumping through some hoops.
I have read this thread with some interest and thought that I would give my view to the discussion. Do I wish that Sonos would consider adding some additional codecs ? Sure I do. Is it stopping me using my current sonos beam and play:1s for home cinema ? No it isn't - as long as you have the right equipment.
I have had numerous wired set ups in the past and they have been great. Those were in the days when I didn't care about miles of speaker cables etc. When we moved house I had the choice of channelling 40m of speaker cables into walls and pay a small fortune, or go the Sonos way and make my life easy. I think the person who mentioned that he can get speaker cables channels into walls for £200 either lives in a fantasy world or has a very small room. The cost of the wallpaper alone is more than that, never mind the cost of the labour, speaker cables etc. If you want this done properly you have already paid for two thirds of your Sonos system.
Yes, you do have to get creative and use equipment that can convert DTS to DD, and you do not get amazing stereo separation at the front, but it actually isn't that bad all things considering. A lot of it obviously depends on the size and shape of your living room. Although my living room is about 10m long, it is only 3.7m wide. This means that we are only sitting about 2.7 m from the TV and I found that the beam and the play:1s fills this distance with great sound. I will eventually get Playbar 2.0 but for now the beam is great.
I see where Sonos are coming from by targeting the streaming market and not the videophile market. Personally I do use Netflix a lot but I prefer to watch my films on UHD as video quality is so much better. Unfortunately this has restricted me to Samsung UHD players only as they are the only player (except the xbox) that can convert to 5.1DD on the fly. I could point the finger at Sonos here at only supporting limited codecs, but equally at Sony and Panasonic for not offering a down conversion facility in their machines.
Maybe one day Sonos will offer a separate centre speaker and speakers with Atmos support, but until then the current Sonos home theatre offerings do deliver 5.1 sound for my needs (with a bit tinkering and without the cables).
I heard all I needed to hear when the rant leads to this "Think about it while you are watching your new laser disc" :?:?:?
Anyone with an ounce of modern living hasn't used a laser disc in half a decade or more! :8 Unless maybe you have a dedicated Home Cinema room in which case your not fitting Sonos in it! (unless mad as a hatter)
Also not considered is that the Playbar is actually quite old now (2013!) so will be superseded soon, no doubt with HDMI ARC just like the Beam.
The average hardwired 5.1 setups are junk. A Playbar and sub (great sub!) is usually plenty for the average listener. Add a couple rear One's with voice control and you have a very neat package with no wires and easy control, (beautiful) simplicity. Certainly family friendly, which is 98%+ of the market. Unlike a system with an AVR which then becomes super un-user-friendly and cause arguments (unless a control method introduced).
This post is a bit like test driving a Tesla and saying It's rubbish because it is not as fast as a Formula One car!
Im an AV integrator who's installed 100's of multiroom audio systems (Sonos and not Sonos). Sonos made the market and nailed the market, period
Anyone with an ounce of modern living hasn't used a laser disc in half a decade or more! :8 Unless maybe you have a dedicated Home Cinema room in which case your not fitting Sonos in it! (unless mad as a hatter)
Also not considered is that the Playbar is actually quite old now (2013!) so will be superseded soon, no doubt with HDMI ARC just like the Beam.
The average hardwired 5.1 setups are junk. A Playbar and sub (great sub!) is usually plenty for the average listener. Add a couple rear One's with voice control and you have a very neat package with no wires and easy control, (beautiful) simplicity. Certainly family friendly, which is 98%+ of the market. Unlike a system with an AVR which then becomes super un-user-friendly and cause arguments (unless a control method introduced).
This post is a bit like test driving a Tesla and saying It's rubbish because it is not as fast as a Formula One car!
Im an AV integrator who's installed 100's of multiroom audio systems (Sonos and not Sonos). Sonos made the market and nailed the market, period
+2
So the title to this thread is false....you can get 5.1. The person buying the equipment just needs to do research. Like anything, when you start dealing with equipment that as expensive as this.... you really need to understand the logic behind it. I dont care what anyone says....with technology nothing is plug and play and there is always a way to get the sound you need with a little work....i always think its funny when people hire someone to install music equipment....i would think you would want to understand how this stuff works or enjoy the research and accomplishment of getting this stuff to work. Alot if people complain on this site about what this stuff cant do, instead, lets work together to get this stuff to do what we need it to do by research and putting together the stuff that works....with that said....you can accomplish 5.1 with Sonos.
+1
I have now Trueplayed my setup today and noticed a massive improvement to the overall sound and better cohesion between the Beam and the 2 SL's.
I'm guessing the first part of Trueplay determines the distances, delays and volumes per channel, but what would be nice is to boost the rear channels independently from each other after Trueplay as my right rear is much quieter that the left.
The main listening/viewing position isn't equal distance from each other for the rears.
If I turn off Trueplay and set the distances manually to 0.6 to 3.0 for the left and over 3.0 for the right I get a better volume level all round but lack of cohesion with Trueplay.
Moving the right rear to an equal distance is not possible.
Any suggestions?
Because of your issues, have you perhaps considered changing your position and temporarily sitting closer to one surround speaker when doing the first stage of the TruePlay tuning process, so that the other speakers volume is then boosted and hopefully balanced for your actual ’true’ seated position ?
Hopefully a bit of trial and error may help you achieve the desired outcome and as you may already know there is a slider control in the HT ‘surround’ room settings to shift the audio between front and back channels aswell as the usual EQ ‘balance’ control to perhaps fine-tune things to maybe meet your personal taste.
Hi Ken
Thanks for your ideas.
I had thought about doing the initial True play off to my left in an attempt to boost the right rear but decided against this as it would un-center the front 3 channels. I can boost the overall rear volume but the option to balance is removed from the EQ (can't remember seeing it there for the Beam only).
I have managed to move the rear right approx 6 inches closer, a small distance but better than nothing.
I can live with the slight volume difference. Just maybe Sonos will implement additional adjustments in future updates.
Setup in the end was far less hassle than a full blown 7.1 (which the wife hated) and this (doesn't) give me the option to tinker all the time with delays, distances, heights etc. I threw my sound level meter away the other week and I don't miss being anal with setting it all up.
Ken, I am genuinely happy for you. What I said was SONOS do not do proper 5.1 and I stand by that. Play any of your DTS DVDs and you will have stereo or silence. If you are happy with the limitations then fine although for £400 I would have purchased a good sound bar and wireless sub. Also, your two Play 1s were not free so you 5.0 system actually cost you about £700. Quite a lot for a very limited system.
Userlevel 3
+4
You have some valid points and I do agree on some aspects, especially the DTS part! I went with the Playbase with 2 Play:1s (which I bought pretty cheap used, not the Playbase) cause I also wanted something for great music on top of having the 5.1 ability. Also having the Sonos app, trueplay, and multiroom capability is super handy.
Plus, don't think my wife will want someone running new cables through the walls! I know, it's irrational! LOL
So while I don't totally agree or disagree with you, I found the Sonos a better fit for my needs.
Plus, don't think my wife will want someone running new cables through the walls! I know, it's irrational! LOL
So while I don't totally agree or disagree with you, I found the Sonos a better fit for my needs.
And linking the speakers into other rooms. Moving your speakers. Tuning speakers to your room, Et al.
Functionality, convenience and results are trade offs. Your system has nothing going for it other than watching TV whilst the Sonos version does.
Harsh Big Guy. I can configure my SONOS system, who couldn’t? It only does Dolby Digital, Stereo and of course silent. Stop biting SONOS fans ( I am a fan for music) it is wireless but it is very, very limited. Don’t take my word for it, read the Forums, read all the 5 star reviews, they all comment on SONOSs lack of future proofing and HDMI in/outs. If you are happy, groovy man, that is not my point so stop being so defensive guys. I want a SONOS 5.1 system that does it all! Is that to much to ask for £1700? Ding ding, round 3
Sonos are a speaker company. I don’t think they claim to be pushing out gear for home cinema enthusiasts. I think that is their whole mantra. Make it simple, give people functionality but don’t sweat it on speaclist home theatre stuff that other specialised companies do.
Meanwhile a simple Xbox one S or X will decode DTS on the fly to DD5.1. Not a tricky solution if you want to use Sonos. It has a market. Probably not those with cinema rooms on the whole. But still.
Meanwhile a simple Xbox one S or X will decode DTS on the fly to DD5.1. Not a tricky solution if you want to use Sonos. It has a market. Probably not those with cinema rooms on the whole. But still.
But are Sonos 'stealing' people's money? No, that is preposterous. Many customers buy the Playbar,/base or Beam because they want TV sound that's a lot better than the TV's own speakers and also does music well. And integrates with their nultiroom Sonos. And surround is an option for those who want it, albeit sometimes with hassle and extra expense
It is just a different offering from a trad home theatre. People weigh up the features then spend their money.
I think Sonos does music brilliantly and home theatre pretty well, but not brilliantly. But I suspect they know their market, the package works for lots of people, and Sonos won't be following Blackberry or Saab any time soon.
Love this comment John. It is exactly the type of reply I was hoping to stimulate. You hit the nail on the head when you say people weigh up the features then spend their money. I didn’t do this when I purchased my Playbase and regretted the purchase. I assumed that when SONOS said on their website that it was simple, wireless and played everything, that it did just that. More fool me, I take full responsibility for my lack of research. I trusted SONOS because they had never let me down before. It’s not sour grapes, I was completely covered by their 100 day return policy so I lost nothing more than a dream.
I propose that SONOS have entered into a world that they do not really believe in. For those who don’t read all the posts remember I am a SONOS owner and fan. They are late to the market with Alexa, Siri etc, there is no DTS/Atmos/Dolby X support (not ground breaking tech), no HDMI, all of which I think a lot of people want. At the risk of repeating myself again, if you have a SONOS 5.1 system and you are happy then great, this discussion probably is not for you. But SONOS are so good at speakers they should produce a TV equivalent as good as their musical ones or get off the bus and not bother???
The current implementation of the Beam is that it connects to the TV via HDMI ARC. As such, it is limited by two factors: the HDMI handshake between the TV and the media source, and the TV's ability to pass through digital audio over its HDMI output.
My TV (A Sony), and I assume this is the typical experience, will handshake itself as a stereo device. So, when I set my Apple TV audio output to be "best quality available", it will output stereo PCM. This is not for lack of better audio, but because of a handshake problem. The Apple TV's only other output option is "Dolby Digital 5.1", which is what I ultimately selected. Second, the best quality my TV can pass through via HDMI is Dolby Digital Plus (so no DTS or other formats).
Sonos decided to implement their soundbar as a "sink" device. That is, it is the last device in the chain. The TV acts as the switch between media sources. A different implementation might be to have the Sonos connect directly to all your media sources, and then output the video to your TV. Such an implementation might enable better audio formats, but is invariably more difficult to set up.
I, for one, would prefer the latter implementation, where audio is routed directly to the beam, and then the video is forwarded. However, the home theater space is a difficult one, and such implementation is not without compromise. It is a more difficult setup for the customer, for one. Moreover, the audio device when then have to support various pass-through options (my previous audio system, for example, had such an installation, but could not pass through HDR).
Here's hoping that the playbar 2.0 (or, as I think it might be called based on recent naming conventions, the SONOS BAR) --- that is probably in the works --- will solve some of this by offering direct connection to the audio sources.
My TV (A Sony), and I assume this is the typical experience, will handshake itself as a stereo device. So, when I set my Apple TV audio output to be "best quality available", it will output stereo PCM. This is not for lack of better audio, but because of a handshake problem. The Apple TV's only other output option is "Dolby Digital 5.1", which is what I ultimately selected. Second, the best quality my TV can pass through via HDMI is Dolby Digital Plus (so no DTS or other formats).
Sonos decided to implement their soundbar as a "sink" device. That is, it is the last device in the chain. The TV acts as the switch between media sources. A different implementation might be to have the Sonos connect directly to all your media sources, and then output the video to your TV. Such an implementation might enable better audio formats, but is invariably more difficult to set up.
I, for one, would prefer the latter implementation, where audio is routed directly to the beam, and then the video is forwarded. However, the home theater space is a difficult one, and such implementation is not without compromise. It is a more difficult setup for the customer, for one. Moreover, the audio device when then have to support various pass-through options (my previous audio system, for example, had such an installation, but could not pass through HDR).
Here's hoping that the playbar 2.0 (or, as I think it might be called based on recent naming conventions, the SONOS BAR) --- that is probably in the works --- will solve some of this by offering direct connection to the audio sources.
+1
You posted on a Sonos forum telling people not to buy Sonos products?
Sure, the geeky audiophile who lives in his mum's basement can probably say why Sonos is pants but the vast majority of us couldn't give a to55.
I am happy with my Sonos purchases, one of the benefits was not having to cut holes in my walls to run cables and this is a big selling point for me and I would suspect others also.
Sure, the geeky audiophile who lives in his mum's basement can probably say why Sonos is pants but the vast majority of us couldn't give a to55.
I am happy with my Sonos purchases, one of the benefits was not having to cut holes in my walls to run cables and this is a big selling point for me and I would suspect others also.
Sure, the geeky audiophile who lives in his mum's basement can probably say why Sonos is pants but the vast majority of us couldn't give a to55.
I am happy with my Sonos purchases, one of the benefits was not having to cut holes in my walls to run cables and this is a big selling point for me and I would suspect others also.
Laurie, if you are going to post on someones conversation at least have the decency to read the thread through before commenting. I will repeat for your benefit; if you are happy with your SONOS setup then fantastic, this conversation is not for you. There isn't really a place for this sort of passive aggressive, defensive commenting on these Forums, although there is a lot of it about. By all means, join in but at least have something constructive to add to the chit chat. Had I done more research prior to buying my Playbase then I wouldn't be sitting in all day waiting for DHL to collect it.
Please direct me to where I say people shouldn't buy SONOS products? I have lots of them for music and I am delighted with them. Of course, if you had read the thread you would know that. I started this discussion to see how other people felt about the whole SONOS 5.1 experience for the cost. I had a poor experience and people who are smarter than me that do proper research prior to purchasing a Base/Bar/Beam may or may not find these shared experiences helpful. That is why I posted on a SONOS Forum.
So it is my fault for not being able to get fibre broadband in my area and my desire to watch DVDs:? A growing market without a doubt Kumar and growing markets expand and keep up with the latest technology. Apple TV is already moving to Dolby Atmos, how long before the major streaming providers follow with Dolby X etc? That is starting to look like a very expensive brick under your TV sometime soon and there is nothing SONOS can do to help you because you are connected with an optical cable...
So because Apple TV puts out an entirely optional audio format, one which is completely backwards compatible with DD 5.1, all of a sudden your Sonos "is starting to look like a very expensive brick under your TV sometime soon"?
What utter nonsense.
OMG!!! For someone who has over 1700 posts you would think that you would read the complete thread before making a comment.
Everyone who is happy with their system don't leave a comment unless it is constructive.
Everyone who is happy that their SONOS 5.1 setup can only play in stereo and DD and can never, that's never be upgraded then don't bother with this thread, it is not for you.
There is no criticism whatsoever of people who live and breath SONOS and think it is the bees knees. You will find you are in a huge majority within this Forum. However people who think that there are obvious omissions from their AV Setup are not the Antichrist, they do not wish to abduct your children and burn down your houses, we just think that SONOS should be better at outputting sound from our TVs.
OMG!!! For someone who has over 1700 posts you would think that you would read the complete thread before making a comment.
Everyone who is happy with their system don't leave a comment unless it is constructive.
Everyone who is happy that their SONOS 5.1 setup can only play in stereo and DD and can never, that's never be upgraded then don't bother with this thread, it is not for you.
There is no criticism whatsoever of people who live and breath SONOS and think it is the bees knees. You will find you are in a huge majority within this Forum. However people who think that there are obvious omissions from their AV Setup are not the Antichrist, they do not wish to abduct your children and burn down your houses, we just think that SONOS should be better at outputting sound from our TVs.
You are not the ombudsman of this forum. People can post what they want when they want. And I am here to post that you stating that a Sonos 5.1 system "is starting to look like a very expensive brick under your TV sometime soon" simply because Apple TV now does Dolby Atmos is utter freaking nonsense!
And that's 17,000 posts, junior. Not 1700. 🆒
OMG!!! For someone who has over 1700 posts you would think that you would read the complete thread before making a comment.
Everyone who is happy with their system don't leave a comment unless it is constructive.
Everyone who is happy that their SONOS 5.1 setup can only play in stereo and DD and can never, that's never be upgraded then don't bother with this thread, it is not for you.
There is no criticism whatsoever of people who live and breath SONOS and think it is the bees knees. You will find you are in a huge majority within this Forum. However people who think that there are obvious omissions from their AV Setup are not the Antichrist, they do not wish to abduct your children and burn down your houses, we just think that SONOS should be better at outputting sound from our TVs.
You are not the ombudsman of this forum. People can post what they want when they want. And I am here to post that you stating that a Sonos 5.1 system "is starting to look like a very expensive brick under your TV sometime soon" simply because Apple TV now does Dolby Atmos is utter freaking nonsense!
And that's 17,000 posts, junior. Not 1700. 🆒
Sorry Big Daddy, 17,000 it is :D:D:D. That being the case please give me your honest assessment of SONOS as a 5.1 system taking into account it's undisputed limitations. Forget musical ability, that is not in dispute, they are the Kings in that respect. In fact, it is because I love my Play 1's etc and would not give them up for a pension that I am disappointed in the Playbase so much so I sent it back.
So it is my fault for not being able to get fibre broadband in my area and my desire to watch DVDs:?
I take it that the answer to my quoted question is Yes. And if so, that has nothing to do with it being your fault or not; just that you are not the target market, it seems to me. Accept it and move on.
Even with the compatibility issue sorted, I think the Sonos solution is limited by not providing the necessary physical separation for the front L/R speakers, but the benefit of no consequent wires and clutter in a living room aesthetic seems to work well enough to compensate for the many that are happy with the solution. For those that are not so compensated, Sonos is not the solution. There is nothing "news" about this.
I will have to agree with your points about sonos not being the best for home theater 5.1. The is why my sonos is for music only. And my home theater setup is a full all out AVR system with Atmos in my house. And a samsung HW-MS751 sound bar system in my apartment. DTS and more advance Dolby support is required as streaming is moving forward. AppleTV and now Amazon Fire TV will support Atmos. So for Sonos to stay current, ATMOS and DTS-X is the wave of the future for streaming. Which they should add to any future sound bars.
Wow, such vitriol. You know this is just a discussion yes? Over 30 interesting posts and you think the title is the important point? I did warn about pedants but if you want to play that game ok.
Please don’t get distracted by posts like this and continue with what is a really interesting conversation by some intelligent users (and me). Such a disappointment Big Daddy, you had kept the passive aggressive stuff down to a minimum up until now.
FWIW, I think the thread title might be seen as provocative, but not necessarily in a bad way. I think it was intended to provoke debate, not to annoy.
Calling Sonos uncompromised HT is just BS in my opinion.
But that's not what Kumar said. He never said Sonos was uncompromised form a audio/music standpoint, not from an HT standpoint. In fact he stated he doesn't even use Sonos for HT.
Even from an music standpoint, I don't really know what 'uncompromised' means. I'm sure I'd be able to get a system that plays music better than Sonos does. However, I'm not sure I could find one that's in my price range, is a whole home system, integrates with HT sufficiently for my needs, has good app control, has voice control, and is likely to be expandable to more rooms and more features in the future. But sometimes that's not what you need and therefore Sonos isn't the best option for you.
Userlevel 7
+21
If you've given it away why charge in here insulting people, 9 posts all having a pop at Sonos or community members who are trying to contribute in a positive manner.
I do hope you are happy with your B&W and Denon solution.
I do hope you are happy with your B&W and Denon solution.
Wow, such vitriol. You know this is just a discussion yes? Over 30 interesting posts and you think the title is the important point? I did warn about pedants but if you want to play that game ok.
Please don’t get distracted by posts like this and continue with what is a really interesting conversation by some intelligent users (and me). Such a disappointment Big Daddy, you had kept the passive aggressive stuff down to a minimum up until now.
When you have nothing left, attack the messenger. Talk about passive aggressive. :8
On the topic: Sonos for HT IS a compromise, not so much because it does not do 5.1 - it does - but because the lack of separation of the front speakers is a compromise even where the codecs are not an issue. But to repeat, for those that see the benefits of the compromise in a system that is clutter free, and blends in with the living areas decor, this makes up for the lack of front speaker separation. Throw in integration with the rest of Sonos in the home, and you have the target market that sees the value in these pros for the aforesaid cons. Those that are not that market should look elsewhere because their needs are those that up to this time, Sonos has chosen to NOT address, as a conscious choice. In choosing A, one must forego B and this is what Sonos has done.
And to also repeat, this is not "News".
And to also repeat, this is not "News".
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