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Sonos Arc - Metallic Sound

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C
Badge +1

I think there are a few issues going on here;

 

  1. There appears to be an issue with trueplay. Lacking low end and sharp highs and also the balance of the surrounds seems way out. Ive had to drop mine to -9. On my beam i had to drop them to -6. 
  2. There appears to be an issue with frequency response when air playing music from an iOS device. proven by playing a song through apple music from an apple tv there is a wide frequency response and then when playing straight from the phone its all thin (this could be because the apple tv is encoding to DD5.1)
  3. There also seems to be some issues with non DD5.1 or Atmos content through the TV also having a strange frequency response.

So based on this i would say there’s an issue with how the ARC divides frequencies with 2.0 source material and also how it performs its true play tuning.

Well put! 

It makes sense that music will sound different when played back via AirPlay (stereo) vs an Apple TV (Dolby Digital) as you have implied - for one thing, DD has separate channels which will be sent to different drivers, most notably LFE. A more accurate comparison would be to set the Apple TV to output digital stereo and then compare with AirPlay. 

 

Regarding the users in this thread with issues of frequency response - I think it’d be worthwhile toggling TruePlay tuning to “off” to see if the same issues are just as present. (Someone previously said something along the lines of it not making sense that TruePlay could introduce the issue which is not all that logical IMO; given that it’s essentially creating a custom EQ response curve of course it could introduce EQ response issues!) 

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +7

Just been on technical chat in regards to this issue, they just offered to warranty replace mine. declined and said would rather wait for an update for now. Will give it 3 weeks to see if Sonos come up with anything, then think about warranty replacing.

C
Userlevel 3
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I would be interested in seeing comparative results from an audio spectrum analyzer taken from the listening position for the same music/movie.  There are some decent apps for iOS that do this. 

It seems many reviewers are blown away by this device, and some others are not impressed.  Many purchasers of this product love it (such as me), and others find it weak/harsh.

Maybe if some of us compared the frequency response in the listening position we could figure out why.  Is it just preference, or are the results we’re getting that much different based on room size, true play tuning results, speaker placement?

B
Userlevel 3
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So I spoke to Sonos support who basically said the diagnostic does not show any issue and when I am home I can record a video for them. Not sure what my iPhone microphone will offer them that my ears have not already told them. 

I asked if they can run my serial number to see if they have any known issues with the batch. They told me they have no know issues with the Arc so running the serial would not do anything. So that threw me though a loop and I queried without much luck. 

Bit irritated! 

Beam. 2x Play:1 - 2x Play One (gen 2) - Sub - 2x Play 5 - Move
O
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

So after a night's mixed viewing I can definitely still hear an issue with the sound from the Arc and so can the OH now.

When OH came to mine we watched Coronation Street, audio was fine, voices front and central nice and clear. Lucifer on prime was fine. Watched Fatal Attraction on iTunes and there were scenes that the audio was off. There's a club scene when the affair starts that went really loud (OH complained I was deaf), then during a meal scene I struggled to hear the conversation. The voices were low but ambient background sounds were loud, it was like the director had the window open and mic outside whilst filming.


It's the same issue I've had before where I've struggled to hear the conversation, with vocals not being front, center and clear 

This is a different issue than the metallic sound in this thread. Be aware that many films are intentionally mixed so that the voice channel is weaker than other channels. I suggest you do some A/B testing: try to listen to the scene, from the same source, with (good) headphones on. See if the problem persists there. If it does, then the problem is with the source material. However, if with headphones the voice is clear and background is weak, than there may be a problem with your Arc set-up. 

(Also: make sure that the Arc is receiving a Dolby signal and not something else. The Apple TV defaults to outputting LPCM audio, which the Arc cannot support yet. This results in a subpar stereo mix, rather than surround sound. The Apple TV has a setting to force Dolby Digital sound, which will sound markedly better).

G
Userlevel 7

Also - for what it’s worth - the bass issue (when not using a sub) is better than it was but certainly NOT 100% fixed….

 

I don’t have an issue with the metallic sound - but I have no doubt some people do.

Exactly. The bass issue was fixed by Sonos but people still are complaining about it. When Sonos “fixes” the metallic sound “problem” many people will still hear it and never be satisfied.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
K
Userlevel 1
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@kenwk123 Read this whole thread and your comment re: hollow Hamilton on Disney+ is exactly how I’m feeling. I’ve had Arc + Sub + 2 SLs (Atmos-enabled via Sony TV) for 2 days and I’ve tuned 5x both with iPhone XS and iPad mini 2 to try and figure out why the orchestra doesn’t have fullness/richness and feeling of enveloping you with sounds.  There is some hissing with the “s” in different scenes as well which is slightly lessened by playing with treble.  Avengers Endgame wormhole battle scene sounds much better, dialogues are still slightly bright (Thor talking to Captain America, etc.) and I want to chalk it up to the recording of Hamilton.  BUT I had a Samsung HW-Q90R previously and that sounded MUCH better (returned b/c of sub disconnecting all the time) so I’m not convinced it’s just the way it was filmed as another user in this thread mentioned it may be. Any other workarounds that have helped improve your experience with specifically Hamilton? 

Well I returned mine but in general if u do true play don’t walk around the room. Instead try to wave the phone around where u r sitting when listening.  Also re:q90, u must adjust the 5ghz channel or risk interference with wireless sub.  Anyway good luck on trying to tune the Arc.  

W
Userlevel 2
Badge +3

I am also coming from the beam, and the arc is a substantial improvement, but I will say it’s certainly a ‘brighter’ presentation, but I see this as aiding overall clarity, not a reduction in richness at all

This is what the rtings graphs show. The high frequency cut off for Playbar and Beam shows a score of 7.5, where as the Arc shows a score of 9.8. So this means you are hearing high treble frequencies on the Arc that you may not have heard on the Beam/Playbar, depending on how good (old?) your ears are at this frequency?

Well my 36 year old ears may have deteriorated slightly!, but for anyone to experience the beam sounding in any way ‘better’, there’s something seriously wrong with those units

yea I upgraded from the beam myself, granted my Arc came after the bass fix so I can’t speak to that but this thing sounds amazing. I was worried seeing all these negatives, im glad for me it was not an issue. It does make me wonder though if some of them are just defective and maybe need replaced?

G
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I just want to add that my initial true play attempts with iPhone Xs resulted in the harsh metallic unbearable sound signature. Even reducing treble didn’t help. When the Bass fix update arrived, I added sub and did Trueplay with iPhone 7. I am happy to report that the metallic sounds have all gone and my treble is back to 0. There is definitely something going on with the mic filters and how sonos is processing the Trueplay with different gains. Its been about 10 days and countless listening sessions and I am satisfied with the way its sounding for music and movies. It think its a Software issue and Sonos really need to test it with multiple iOS devices to see how the sound signature differs and compensate for the differences in Trueplay tuning.

I also turned with iPhone 7 and feel vocal’s are still way too harsh, definitely better than iPhone X tuning which is unbearable, but still very high pitched. This needs to be fixed ASAP. 
 

it feels like dialogue completely takes over the overall sound and just way too “in your face”, even with dialoge enhancement and loudness turned off.

C
Badge +1

In my opinion the music should sound exactly the same if it’s played via air play or through the Apple TV being encoded to DD5.1 because it’s still the same 2.0 source material. There may be a slight degradation in bitrate but not frequency response. If the Apple TV can take the 2.0 source and divide it up correctly then there is no reason why the arc can’t do The exact same thing. 
 

I see where you’re coming from but that isn’t how it works per se; it differs per source device, but broadly speaking if a source device (e.g. Apple TV) is set to output Dolby Digital in 5.1, if it is playing a stereo signal it’ll still output it in 5.1 - it’ll either fill the FL and FR channels and leave the other 3 channels empty or upmix the stereo input to the configured output codec (DD 5.1 in this case) - which would impact bass frequencies below a certain cut-off as the LFE channel for example. 

 

This is not the same thing as outputting stereo natively. If you think about it - if you had a full 5.1 setup with 5 speakers and a sub - how would you expect it to output stereo fed via a DD5.1? Dual-stereo? FL/FR only with no sub? FL/FR+Sub? Centre speaker?

 

Some Home Theater devices actually then do their own post-processing (or have various options) where they can take a stereo signal and upmix it to 5.1 (or other configs) but that’s another story. 

 

As I say - the only “true” comparison between an Apple TV and AirPlay would be to have them matched as closesly as possible (as with any other test - eliminate variables) - which in this case would mean simply setting the Apple TV to output digital stereo for the duration of the testing. 

L

I am having the same issue with a recently purchased Arc. Dialogue sounds extremely underwhelming and tinny. Have tried all available settings. 

C
Userlevel 6
Badge +11

Having the exact same issue. I believe there’s an issue with the Trueplay calibration when done via an iPhone (at least me and my husband's iPhone 11). Tries tuning with a first-generation iPad Pro and the results were much better. That incredibly harsh, metallic trebly heavy sound is gone. Can anyone else see if this works better for them? 

@Heilo the Dog I noticed the exact same thing. TruPlay done with iPad Pro did bring down those harsh trebles, albiet with compromised details. Then I redid the TruPlay again with my iPhone XS, and no surprise - the harsh and metallic treble came back. I plan to repeat this process multiple times to validate our hypothesis.

 

Suggests different frequency response at upper treble range from the various iPhone models:

https://signalessence.com/can-you-use-an-iphones-internal-microphone-for-acoustic-testing-and-accurate-recordings/

 

 

R

Okay so I just tried a few things that really helped with the trueplay experience. YOU MUST take your case off and make sure all windows are closed and only go from head height to waist height not to the roof and to your feet and try and limit the area you walk around to a smaller space around your sitting area. This made it sound soooo much better!

Hope any of this helps you guys ✌❤

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Ok: I want to start by saying I am not a person that is super sensitive to this issue. I updated the app and firmware then played songs I had played this morning. for some reason to me it sounded worse like more lifeless. BUT then i re-truplayed with my same phone iphone XR and now to my ears it sounds better than it did before the update. The high pitch sounds arent bad (less noticeable to me ) I turned treble to -1 and i think it is perfect now. The bass also seems a bit more present. It could be truplay variability. Maybe this is placebo so please update and RETRUPLAY!!! and let us know

D
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

Also - for what it’s worth - the bass issue (when not using a sub) is better than it was but certainly NOT 100% fixed….

 

I don’t have an issue with the metallic sound - but I have no doubt some people do.

Exactly. The bass issue was fixed by Sonos but people still are complaining about it. When Sonos “fixes” the metallic sound “problem” many people will still hear it and never be satisfied.

 

Well…. people are still complaining about the bass b/c it’s not fixed. Not all the way. This isn’t a matter of perception.

Sonos has acknowledged they’re working on the metallic sound issue...soooo I don’t think that’s a matter of perception either.

 

 

J
Userlevel 1
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So nothing new?

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +7

Had a demo of this at Richer Sounds yesterday and me and the sales person both agreed that the ARC sounded tinny. I went home and listened to the same demo content on my beam and sounded better!. fingers crossed this gets looked into before I purchase.

M
Userlevel 5
Badge +7

I am also coming from the beam, and the arc is a substantial improvement, but I will say it’s certainly a ‘brighter’ presentation, but I see this as aiding overall clarity, not a reduction in richness at all

This is what the rtings graphs show. The high frequency cut off for Playbar and Beam shows a score of 7.5, where as the Arc shows a score of 9.8. So this means you are hearing high treble frequencies on the Arc that you may not have heard on the Beam/Playbar, depending on how good (old?) your ears are at this frequency?

Well my 36 year old ears may have deteriorated slightly!, but for anyone to experience the beam sounding in any way ‘better’, there’s something seriously wrong with those units

yea I upgraded from the beam myself, granted my Arc came after the bass fix so I can’t speak to that but this thing sounds amazing. I was worried seeing all these negatives, im glad for me it was not an issue. It does make me wonder though if some of them are just defective and maybe need replaced?

What is the build number of your device? I’ve only heard March so far. 

P
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

I have the arc since release date. From the beginning I find the voice (like watching news, talk shows) very tiny. Like the arc is only using the small tweeter and not the midrange drivers.

I was hoping to get used to it but I’m not. For comparison I bought a Denon DHT-S716H a 3.0 soundbar about the same size and price of the Arc. 

This confirmed my suspicion: while the Arc is much better than the Denon on soundstage, bass, clarity etc, the Denon is much, much better on voices, much richer and fuller.

This proves to me there is something wrong with the Arc. 

it’s a real shame I really really want to keep the Arc, but if this problem is not fixed In my return window , I have to send ik back. 
 

Sonos please fix this! It’s a pity that this is ruining a potential great product. 

 

 

Have you tried with trueplay off and loudness off? My experience is it is an improvement to tinnyness with certainly trueplay off … still not right but better

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

Hallelujah, after a long wait on hold to customer service they have finally (a month after I first contacted them) set up an exchange for my arc….. wonder if it will resolve the problem or will it just be the same (e.g. a mess)??? 

A few people did exchange it and reported back, and they found no significant improvement on the new one. I dont think ive read anyone saying the improvement was so good they were satisfied.

S
Userlevel 4
Badge +4

I find conversations regarding Trueplay and retuning etc. bizarre to be honest.  With it switched off (like it has to be for a huge amount of users who use Android), the Arc should not be exhibiting any of the issues being so widely reported.

Trueplay is to adjust the sound according to the room/environment it is in, not to fix fundamental problems.  There may be issues with tuning on specific devices’ microphones (quite ironic given the reasons for Trueplay only being supported on Apple devices) - but with it switched off these sorts of issues with bass etc. really shouldn't be there.

If you switch it off and have the problem then there is a huge issue.

1- You can easily find someone with an iphone borrow their phone for 10 mins and trueplay. (now is more difficult due to covid I know)

2- You are confused by the “issue” at hand. It isn’t that theres an issue that trueplaying fix. It is quite the opposite. Some users are reporting that truplaying is incorrectly tuning the profile and making high pitch voices and sounds sound harsh and “tinny” and Ssssss to be quite annoying to the ear (siblance). 

Keeping truplay off means more muddled sounds and voices and no room correction so forego the “virtual surround” and atmos adjustment.

Room correction is a very good and high end feature for soundbars and systems. Even home theater receiver system use it and need it (they provide a mic you move around). Sonos system is easier and simpler **but** you need an iphone (refer to point 1) Theyd have to develop this to account for multiple mics used on multiple androids that release on multiple flagships cycles every year and dramatically change components in the process. Not saying it couldnt be done but it adds considerable complexity to keep truplay constat for all with tens of phone models (keep in mind this goes through the years) so every year it would be 3 or 4 samsungs, 2 or 3 pixel phones, 2 or 3 LGs, 3 or 4 iphones etc. Edit: and then you would probably complain your samsung A isnt supported but the S is or the S is but the note isnt. Or the note is but the galaxy fold isnt etc

D 
I see that the forum is very stopped, many have already returned everything and I think that others who have not yet done so and continue to have after seeing the technical support that is in this forum have realized that it is useless to write your problems here . There are people who have real problems ... it is not a matter of taste. Whoever believes it, go to the muddy bass forum and see the video they have uploaded, comparing a song with their playbar and with arc sonos ... it's not a matter of taste. It bothers me to hear the bright highs and the ssss so emphasized. But hey, when we return it to those who are missing, the problem ends for everyone. Sorry I thought I had an automatic corrector.

I agree, become very quiet.  Maybe some sent back and bought other brands or maybe bought Arc again and were satisfied then.  I'm waiting for my Arc after being sent back.

D
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

I think there are a few issues going on here;

 

  1. There appears to be an issue with trueplay. Lacking low end and sharp highs and also the balance of the surrounds seems way out. Ive had to drop mine to -9. On my beam i had to drop them to -6. 
  2. There appears to be an issue with frequency response when air playing music from an iOS device. proven by playing a song through apple music from an apple tv there is a wide frequency response and then when playing straight from the phone its all thin (this could be because the apple tv is encoding to DD5.1)
  3. There also seems to be some issues with non DD5.1 or Atmos content through the TV also having a strange frequency response.

So based on this i would say there’s an issue with how the ARC divides frequencies with 2.0 source material and also how it performs its true play tuning.

Well put! 

It makes sense that music will sound different when played back via AirPlay (stereo) vs an Apple TV (Dolby Digital) as you have implied - for one thing, DD has separate channels which will be sent to different drivers, most notably LFE. A more accurate comparison would be to set the Apple TV to output digital stereo and then compare with AirPlay. 

 

Regarding the users in this thread with issues of frequency response - I think it’d be worthwhile toggling TruePlay tuning to “off” to see if the same issues are just as present. (Someone previously said something along the lines of it not making sense that TruePlay could introduce the issue which is not all that logical IMO; given that it’s essentially creating a custom EQ response curve of course it could introduce EQ response issues!) 

Surely if the issue is happening with trueplay on or off it is not an issue with trueplay? This thing sounds mostly horrible no matter what i do or change.

S
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@kenwk123 Thanks.  I did tune walking just around the sofa/sitting area but not sitting completely just from a seated position in one place for the 2nd part of the tuning.  I’ll try that next.  The Q90,  nothing worked for me with that sub issue and it was just too annoying to keep reconnecting.  Also had a different issue with Vudu going black screen everytime I used it.  I did notice a few screen “blackouts” yesterday while changing between inputs on the TV...wondering if it’s just a blip because of eARC (but that’s another thread to investigate).  (If you don’t mind sharing, what did you end up going with for sound and is Hamilton better now?! lol)

 

 

M

I’ve sent the diagnostics. Here is the reference 1985465114.

I’ll contact support tomorrow 

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