Solving the 5.1, DTS issues with the Playbar

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205 replies

M
Badge +3
Doesn't the evolution kit just enhance features like interface, voice commands, menu hubs etc? It just upgrades older model smart Tvs to smoother navigations options I thought....
R
Badge +1
The sek-3500 for hu9000 (hu8500 in the uk) you get the features of the 2015 SUHD TVs have even HDR in fact it is the same OCB as the js9000/js9500. On avs one of the members (musician)made is to explain what you get
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M
Badge +3
Pretty good read, thanks. does the kit target specific models or manufacturing dates necessary for the upgrade?
R
Badge +1
This kit is compatible with models from 2013 onwards (F series or H series) that are 4K and have a model number equal to or higher than 7000. 
This includes the 2013 4K F9000, the 2014 4K HU8500 uk model US HU9000 and the HU7500 uk and the US HU8550. There's is more too but don't know all the model numbers of the top of my head.
M
Hello guys

I currently have a mac mini connected via HDMI to my TV and via optical to the Playbar. After reading multiple threads and not being able to feed the Playbar with 5.1 sound from a DTS movie using Plex I ended up this weekend with giving a try to Kodi (XBMC). It works marvelously, converting DTS to DD and feeding the Sonos with 5.1 so I have migrated to this software as it was impossible to get more than stereo beforehand.

Sharing as may be of interest to some users.
best
Gus
Sageguy
Userlevel 3
Badge +5
The Oppo BDP-103d does not give us a choice on bitstream to choose what type it puts out. It does a 'pass through' type of service so if the Blu-Ray disc only has DTS-HD we are screwed. Sonos really needs to get the DTS decoding in. I would pay for that firmware
Sageguy
W
There is only one solution: Ditch the Sonos and buy a decent home cinema or bar like the Denos Heos Bar which supports all and has the same expansion options as Sonos. Really a big dissappointment Sonos your products are dated.
D
Hi Racin,

great hint but unfortunately this is not a solution (Oppo player), but a very expensive work-around for Sonos' design flaw.

The only real solution can come from Sonos with new firmware and added DTS support.

Let's hope they will add it asap, although it will cost them some $ they thought was easily saved by their strange decision.

It's still hard to swallow for me. A high class, very expensive surround system that is indeed capable of great sound quality was deliberately declined to reduce some $ in production.

How expensive can a DTS licence be? Even my 90 Euro LG BD player has it! Amazon lists a 84 Euro Philips receiver with DTS Support, also a 100 Euro Sony receiver, capable of DTS support.

And our 700 Euro playbar can't do it? Come on, Sonos...
The only real solution is for Sonos to put HDMI into the play bar like everyone else has been doing for years.
It's mind boggling how many threads there are about 5.1 issues.
There are issues with my high end Samsung JS9000 too.
I ordered two Sonos Ones for the bedroom and would buy a full 5.1 set if Sonos wasn't so antiquated but they don't want my money. I probably should cancel the Sonos One orders in fact.
Sonos should be embarrased..
D
Userlevel 1
How exactly do you get the 5.1 sound from the Oppo-103 unit. I put in a blu-ray in today with the "bit stream" setup, but no sound came out.

Note: I have the toslink going from the Oppo player to my SONOS play bar.

Thanks for your help!
R
Audio output. PCM192 for those movies that dont have a 5.1 DD option.
6
Userlevel 2
I concidered buying the Oppo player, but it's too expensive, unfortunately. My LG player was only 90 Euros and it's pretty good and quiet and sports a toslink output.

I am using Apple Tv more and more but am concerned that Apple might one day switch from DD 5.1 to DTS which brings us playbar 5.1 users to the same problems we are facing today 😞
DarqMan
Userlevel 3
Badge +7
The PS3 is able (probably like the Opo player) to output any format (like DTS, DTS-HD etc.) in discrete DD 5.1 over toslink!

But the sound. Whoa. I watched some bluray movies with it. Skyfall, The Hobbit, Tron Legacy. All in DTS, converted to DD 5.1 by the PS3. It sounds perfectly!


What is this magic PS3 audio settings? I can't seem to find it. My PS3 has Bitstream or PCM as an audio output option for the bluray player and the controller shows Stereo when set to PCM. The bitstream option produces silence.

Thanks.
1 x PLAYBAR | 1 x SUB | 3 x PLAY:3 | 3 x PLAY:5 | 2 x PLAY:1 | 1 x CONNECT | 1 x CONNECT:AMP | 1 x BEAM
6
Userlevel 2
Hi Andy,

you're right, of course. But nonetheless, I think the difference from upmixed stereo by sonos, or dolby prologic in the past to discrete 6 channel sound like dolby digital 5.1 is tremendous.

I am sure there is also an improvement from DD5.1 to DTS or DTS-HD. But honestly, with my last setup (Denon receiver + fully wired Canton 5.1 set) I was never able to tell the difference between dd 5.1 and dts.

So my guess here is that upmixed stereo -> dd 5.1 is like a 6 to 10 improvement, while dd 5.1 -> dts(hd) is maybe a 10 to 11 or 12 improvement and some people like me even can't tell the difference.

But hey, I am pretty happy with the sonos system now that it is tweaked to support it's full capability 😃
jgatie
Hi Andy,

you're right, of course. But nonetheless, I think the difference from upmixed stereo by sonos, or dolby prologic in the past to discrete 6 channel sound like dolby digital 5.1 is tremendous.

I am sure there is also an improvement from DD5.1 to DTS or DTS-HD. But honestly, with my last setup (Denon receiver + fully wired Canton 5.1 set) I was never able to tell the difference between dd 5.1 and dts.

So my guess here is that upmixed stereo -> dd 5.1 is like a 6 to 10 improvement, while dd 5.1 -> dts(hd) is maybe a 10 to 11 or 12 improvement and some people like me even can't tell the difference.

But hey, I am pretty happy with the sonos system now that it is tweaked to support it's full capability :D

You aren't alone. In double blind listening tests where the soundtracks are known to be from the same masters (I believe the Lethal Weapon series DVDs were used), the findings were that DD 5.1 was indistiguishable from DTS. Like much in the audio world, many DTS mixes are "cooked" to sound "better", usually by just bumping the volume, some with entirely new mixes. Especially true for films by Steven Speilberg, who just happens to own a stake in DTS (I know you are as shocked as I am to hear that ;)).
S
Badge

I have not been feeling that the sound was right when watching TV and thanks to this thread I confirmed in the Sonos App that I am only getting Stereo from 2 for my three rooms.  I literally have Sonos in every room of my house and I am starting to feel by wanting to stay consistent and simple is holding me back.  The only room where I see DD 5.1 is the small room where I have a Beam (with a sub and 2 PlayOnes).  My other two Playbars, one connected to an LG and one to a Samsung are showing stereo now matter if from local apps or from Roku Apps.  Unless Sonos comes out with a ‘BeamBar’ soon that supports HDMI all the way up to ATMOS I may have to start thinking about going somewhere else.

-John 

6
Userlevel 2
That's exactly what I thought. It's louder but not different.

...and for the Spielberg thing... that's not possible. Not in our perfect world! 😃
E
Userlevel 2
Hi, this link doesn't work anymore

'IF you want PURE unadulterated 5.1 from your DirecTV or Cable, you WILL most likely have to buy a switch like this one. monoprice.com/products/7974

Anyone have the product name and model number?

Thank you.

-- Ed
mgutt
Userlevel 4
Badge +6
Hi,

try this:

Sound Settings -> optical output -> from the selectable formats only chose "Dolby Digital 5.1", unselect everything else (the grey ones can't be unselected, that's ok)

(I have Audio Multi-Output set to "off", but that probably doesn't matter )

Video Settings -> BD Audio output format (optical digital) -> Bitstream (Mix)



With these settings I get wonderful DD5.1 from every BluRay 🙂

What do you think? You can check the output within the Sonos Controller app under "Settings".

Did you verify that it is DD5.1? I think it will fallback to LPCM but this would be a ok, too.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/21/hd-101-how-to-use-dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd-with-your-ps3/
Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA and the PS3
It is helpful to think of Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA as "zipped" versions of the audio tracks that allows the Blu-ray disc to store more data (useful when space has to be reserved for other stuff -- like video, for example). Just like zip files, when you decode the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA tracks, you get an identical copy of the original audio -- this is why it's called "lossless." On Blu-ray discs, the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA codecs can bundle up to eight channels of lossless audio information, each channel with up to 24-bits resolution at a 96kHz sampling rate, commonly referred to as "24/96." However, the PS3 cannot send these formats over HDMI for decoding in your receiver.

First, the good news. What the PS3 can do is decode (unzip) the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA lossless audio and send it to your receiver as a multichannel linear PCM (LPCM) stream, which just about any modern receiver can decode. The LPCM audio is identical to the Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA original format, so no quality is lost.

Now, the bad news. An annoying side effect of sending the "unzipped" LPCM rather than the "zipped" Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA is that the receiver's Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA indicator will not light up because it's not decoding Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA -- the PS3 already did the decoding. Instead, the receiver will (correctly) indicate that it is receiving a LPCM signal.


In 2008 it seems not to be available:
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-ray-hardware-general-discussion/60733-ps3-sound-down-converting.html

Maybe a later firmware release of the ps3 made it possible, but I can't find any information regarding that.
Ken_Griffiths

I have not been feeling that the sound was right when watching TV and thanks to this thread I confirmed in the Sonos App that I am only getting Stereo from 2 for my three rooms.  I literally have Sonos in every room of my house and I am starting to feel by wanting to stay consistent and simple is holding me back.  The only room where I see DD 5.1 is the small room where I have a Beam (with a sub and 2 PlayOnes).  My other two Playbars, one connected to an LG and one to a Samsung are showing stereo now matter if from local apps or from Roku Apps.  Unless Sonos comes out with a ‘BeamBar’ soon that supports HDMI all the way up to ATMOS I may have to start thinking about going somewhere else.

-John 

If your TV won’t pass-through Dolby, you can always bypass the TV to get a Dolby 5.1 signal from your TV connected peripherals by using an audio splitter/extractor ..there are plenty such devices available online and widely discussed here in the community threads.

I’m quite surprised your LG TV doesn’t support Dolby over Optical/HDMI  … but I know some older Samsung TV’s are not always good in this area for allowing such signals to pass-through their ports. The audio splitter/extractor is likely to solve the matter for you,

R
Hi, this link doesn't work anymore

'IF you want PURE unadulterated 5.1 from your DirecTV or Cable, you WILL most likely have to buy a switch like this one. monoprice.com/products/7974

Anyone have the product name and model number?

Thank you.

-- Ed

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=7974&seq=1&format=2
mgutt
Userlevel 4
Badge +6
Will it convert? I think it will only distribute the dts signal through toslink.
R
i just got it. works great. if i need to convert dts, i will use the Oppo blu ray player. I use the monoprice switcher for the dierctv genie that has NO optical out.
R
On page 64 of the OPPO BDP-103 player documentation (google for BDP-103_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.6.pdf ) I read that DTS source material is always sent as DTS (whilst in variants) on coaxial/optical.

I am no expert in this field so any help would be appreciated before I spend 3 grand on a setup that would not sound like intended on contemporary DTS-only material.

I wanted to get this very BD player anyway, but I really begin to question my planned Sonos purchase.

Thanks in advance.

The Oppo will down convert DTS to PCM. It works great. I Have done this myself with a Bluray Star Wars DVD
mgutt
Userlevel 4
Badge +6
And the Oppo Player is the only one on the market doing that?
D
The Oppo will down convert DTS to PCM. It works great. I Have done this myself with a Bluray Star Wars DVD

Hello Racin,

I am no big expert, but I know that PCM is stereo on TOSLINK and that means we get 2 channels of sound with the famous Pro Logic phase trick that didn't already impress me too much when I saw Star Wars on VHS in 1990.

The playstation 3 comment also appeared interesting, but I am too hesitate to buy a Playbar only to find out I get 2 channel PCM Pro Logic downmixed from DTS. In any case I could just use my plasmas optical out as it gives me glorious 2 channel PCM for everything but internal tv.

And no offense, but "sounds great" is mostly caused by the quality of the Sonos speakers and not the precise separation of a proper 5.1 signal.

I am really puzzled: Every cheapo (and not so cheapo) soundbar these days support DTS and also the super-highend versions of DTS and DD... What went wrong at Sonos not using HDMI?

Cheers
Danish
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