From Sonos reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sonos/comments/h7z9gv/hd_fury_is_working_on_an_earc_solution_for_sonos/
HD Fury is working on an eARC solution for Sonos Arc - Full Audio & Atmos from any HDMI sources
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And if you order it before it gets to uk you will save because preorder is less exp
Is there any way of getting the Arcana in the UK? Shipping and import tax could be quite expensive.
I think you are no further ahead with a reseller as they will pay duty and mark up the price.
they have options to ship with lower declared value to reduce VAT and dut
Is there any way of getting the Arcana in the UK? Shipping and import tax could be quite expensive.
Thanks people, this streak has been very usefull! Ive preordered the Arcana and am looking forward enjoying dolby Atmos incobination with beamer & Arc!
Userlevel 1
I’ve ordered mine.
This is the only practical way I can get Atmos out of my Arc without buying a new TV to replace my LG. No help from either Sonos or LG in this respect.
It’ll be great to finally hear what the Arc is capable of.
Just got to wait till October now (or whenever they start shipping).
That and it checks a couple of more boxes for me. First is offcourse getting Atmos to the ARC, second is to force Dolby Vision to my HDR capable projector and third is ensuring I eliminate any sync issues. Hopefully they will hit their 800 order mark to implement CEC support as well, then all is perfect :-).
I’ve ordered mine.
This is the only practical way I can get Atmos out of my Arc without buying a new TV to replace my LG. No help from either Sonos or LG in this respect.
It’ll be great to finally hear what the Arc is capable of.
Just got to wait till October now (or whenever they start shipping).
Userlevel 1
+1
It’s official...Arcana starts production! They hit the preorder quota in 24 hours and are staring production.
You can still pre-order: https://hdfury.com/product/4k-arcana-18gbps/
HDFury has opened it for everyone to pre-order. If you have Sonos Arc and TV w/o eArc, this device is a must. It will give you full Atmos TrueHD
https://www.hdfury.com/product/4k-arcana-18gbps/
Thanks for the update!
The preorder page is up enforced with password that will fall off after 24hrs
They are still just collecting names of people who want to be notified when you can official put in an official preorder. They are currently stating preorder page could be up and running as early as tomorrow or Wednesday. They are saying that those on the list will get first crack at preorder, but I’m not exactly sure what that means, how that would be enforced.
They are also hinting that there will a ‘surprise’ additional function announce before or when prorder opens. A few diagrams are given to hint at what that new function may be which people believe is additional ARC functionality. Specifically that the ARCANA HDMI output port that feeds the TV might be ARC enabled so that it can receive ARC audio from a TV (for when you’re using TV smart apps) that ARCANA can then pass on to the Sonos Arc. That would also mean that you could connect HDMI sources that have audio codecs/formats your TV can handle directly to the other TV HDMI inputs, allowing your TV to send that audio (and TV smart apps) to the ARCANA via HDMI ARC...and passed to the Sonos Arc. You would not need a HDMI switch for mutliple sources inf only one source requires eARC.
Some technical thoughts on that...that means the ARCANA has two potential sources of audio, either it’s HDMI source or the TV via ARC connection. It would need to have a switching capability in order to know what audio to pass to a Sonos Arc. That switch could be manual, meaning you’d have another item to control. The other option is that ARCANA could have an auto switch of some kind. It could be that if there is no audio from an HDMI source, use the ARC connection from TV, but that means you have to turn off HDMI sources. The other is that the HDMI output from ARCANA to the TV is video only….meaning that audio coming from the TV via ARC connection should always be displayed….since you will only get audio from there if the TV is playing smart apps or HDMI source not passing through ARCANA. If so, that would be pretty smart.
That would be a rather handy feature, although it is not confirm yet. It could be that the connection is just CEC control. Still useful, but not as much so.
What is confusing some is that there is also a diagram posted involving the Sharc , which can take an ARC signal from a TV and pass it out over normal HDMI audio. You could then pass it to an HDMI switch, passing it to ARCANA. You’ve essentially achieved what it looks like ARCANA was trying to illustrate above...getting TV smart apps to your Sonos Arc. It could be that HD Fury included to illustrate that you no longer need to spend $150 on a Sharc (or an HDMI switch that can do similar). Although perhaps there are beneifits to this ‘Sharc method’ as well, as you can now control that audio through the HDMI switch. If the switch is a matrix, you could send that audio to a second audio system...perhaps in the case where you have a system that supports DTS. Not sure that would apply to many people though.
As an aside...one thing that could become a factor later on in the future, is the whole ARCANA setup assumes there will never be any useful video content coming from a Sonos Arc. While it is just a screensaver now, there could be a point where Sonos generates useful video content to display on the TV, such as information on what’s currently playing. If something like that happens, ARCANA would ‘block’ whatever that content is. Perhaps this is something HD Fury could fix with firmware, but I doubt it. Such a feature could possibly be something ARCANA users just don’t use, or perhaps it’s would be something for ARCANA 2.0. All hypothetical right now.
+2
Pre-order starts today! Hooray.
Can anyone advise on my AppleTV and Atmos/DTS question? I mainly use ATV as my source, for apps like Netflix but also play BluRay rips via Infuse. So some of my content is DTS.
I know I’ll never get any audio if I feed a DTS signal to the Arc. So, to avoid any settings switching, my understanding is I need to ensure that any device which outputs to the Arc is sending a format that sends converting any sound data into uncompressed multichannel audio, with Atmos metadata. Does something exist that will support, say, a DTS-MA 7.1 stream and a full-fat Dolby Atmos stream? Is that MAT? Does Apple TV support this? And does Arc support it yet or is that what we’re waiting for?
For the estimated $122 pre-order price of Arcana, I highly doubt it will come with HDMI cables. But I’m just speculating.
HDFury’s existing products do not come with HDMI cables, so it would be surprising for Arcana to come with HDMI cables for that reason as well. Besides the added cost, customers are going to require different lengths and quality of cable depending on their specific case. I actually would not want another cable to throw into the spare cable box.
Their other products do have other related cables that customers are less likely to have already, so I bet it will come with USB charging cable and perhaps the power supply.
From HDFury’s latest updates, I can see why they’re able to move so quickly - they are the factory and their offices and fabrication facility are literally in the same building. They’re not having to shop out to a contract manufacturer which would slow things down. Very cool to see!
I have a bestbuy tv from 2016 and have a Comcast cable box and then there are apps available from Comcast would Atmos be available if I got the arcana in this situation
As long as your Comcast box actually supports Atmos from streaming apps (which it looks like the Xfinity X1 does), then Arcana should be just the ticket to get Atmos to your Sonos Arc as it totally bypasses your TV.
and also have they said if it comes with HDMI cables required between devices?
For the estimated $122 pre-order price of Arcana, I highly doubt it will come with HDMI cables. But I’m just speculating.
I have a bestbuy tv from 2016 and have a Comcast cable box and then there are apps available from Comcast would Atmos be available if I got the arcana in this situation and also have they said if it comes with HDMI cables required between devices?
I had asked about ARC as well - and they were not too encouraging. I found a 3x1 switch that purports to do ARC - but maybe not in the way I need - that I hope to use with Arcana.
For 29.00 I thought it might be worth a shot - I got last years Sony OLED A8G w/o eARC openbox at big saving and hoped not to spend what I saved over the A8H...
Speaking of watching this develop in real-time
HDfuryToday at 12:38 PM
@Michiel For the moment consider you will have to use IR learning, we are checking if we can handle cec forwarding and clear that as well. CEC TV > ARCANA > sources will work, CEC TV > ARCANA > SONOS ARC, not sure yet, but we have a few ideas to try before concluding.
So, it sounds like they’re trying to figure out CEC control as part of Arcana. Gotta love these guys!
That’s a nice feature. CEC control of features will be nice, as I do find it convenient to have a source turn off the TV (xbox). If using a switch would want to make sure that gets past through. CEC control of the ARC...eh. The problem with CEC control between Arc and TV (assuming same experience between Beam and TV) is that many commands TVs just ignore, or only follow if the command is coming from current HDMI input (which for the Beam and Arc, without Arcana, is never) So you usually can’t usually use the Beam/Arc to turn TV on/off or switch inputs. You can control volume of the Beam/Arc though, which you can already do via IR commands...which is actually better since the TV doesn’t need to be on for IR to work, while CEC needs the TV on.
If they do manage to have CEC between TV and Arc via Arcana, makes me think that TV Arc support isn’t too far behind.
Am I right in saying that people care about CEC so they can use TV remotes to control volume via HDMI not IR? Or is there a bigger reason?
That’s one of the reasons. CEC can also turn things on / off as you need them. E.g., if you turn your Blu-ray player on it can turn the TV on and turn it to the right input. As a Harmony user I’ve always needed to turn all that stuff off because CEC inevitably screws things up by trying to do what it thinks I want rather than just listening to the Harmony telling the equipment (via IR) exactly what I want it to do.
In my drastically simplified setup, I’m using CEC to control the Arc’s volume via the TV, but once I get the Arcana will obviously have to control the Arc directly (assuming HDFury doesn’t end up getting CEC to work with Arcana). But, for me the end result is the same - everything is controlled from my Harmony remote.
+2
As a Harmony Hub owner, I’ve never cared about CEC. Would someone mind explaining what they need CEC to do, via HDMI, to care about its implementation here?
For me, it’s PS4/ATV/Xbox/Switch - HDMI Switch - Arcana - Arc and Projector.
Harmony Hub turns on the projector and brings down a screen, usually done by voice. Then I tend to navigate ATV with my iPhone or the Apple Remote App, and obviously use game controllers on the consoles. So the sole use for my Harmony Remote or Harmony App is to adjust the volume, which I used to do on a Receiver, and now will do on an amp (for which I’m going to have to fool my Harmony into thinking I have a TV, then teach the Arc that TV’s volume commands).
Am I right in saying that people care about CEC so they can use TV remotes to control volume via HDMI not IR? Or is there a bigger reason?
Speaking of watching this develop in real-time
HDfuryToday at 12:38 PM
@Michiel For the moment consider you will have to use IR learning, we are checking if we can handle cec forwarding and clear that as well. CEC TV > ARCANA > sources will work, CEC TV > ARCANA > SONOS ARC, not sure yet, but we have a few ideas to try before concluding.
So, it sounds like they’re trying to figure out CEC control as part of Arcana. Gotta love these guys!
At this point, I’m going to count it as a minor miracle if they actually get Arcana into consumers’ hands by September/October considering that we’ve had our Arcs for a grand total of about 2 weeks now. I’m sure there will be other options that will open up other functionality but if I can just get Atmos from my source to the Arc, I'll, personally, be happy.
This is the first I’m really seeing a product grow from original inception/need to actual product, so it’s interesting to see how all this develops.
I used to work for a company that manufactured relatively simple consumer electronics products. I’ve seen the process go extremely smoothly and quickly, and I’ve seen the process slog on disastrously for months or years. There’s a lot involved, and HDFury is being surprisingly open about the process. I know just enough about how it works to not sound like a complete idiot, but in general they still have to spin up the printed circuit boards, build and test production samples, cut steel for tooling (assuming Arcana is going to have some sort of plastic housing rather than just being a bare board), make packaging, produce and pack up final units, then start distributing them to users. And they haven’t even finished designing the PCB layout because they literally just made physical board changes and added an entire new feature set YESTERDAY. There’s also a software / firmware component in there and I literally have no idea how that works or what timeframes are like.
Add all of that up, and that’s why I’m saying it will be a minor miracle if any of us have this in hand even before the end of the year, much less by Sept/Oct. They look like they are moving very, very fast and my hat’s off to them for it.
I do use TV apps right now, and firetv. I tend to use the TV apps because I like the interface better, but also will share content across 2 TVs at times, which i can’t do with TV apps. So it may be for the better. And I don’t have a harmony remote, and all these changes are driving me in the direction of needing/wanting one.
I’m the opposite - I’ve used a bunch of streaming boxes (Roku, built-in apps, TiVo, even Boxee if you remember that one from way back) and Apple TV has far and away the nicest, slickest, easiest-to-use interface of them all IMO. The built-in apps always feel like I’m navigating through molasses, no matter which TV I’ve ever tried (and certainly on my Vizio). Apple TV is smooth as silk - and it doesn’t hurt that I’m super tied into the Apple ecosystem in general so all my stuff is there and just works (HomeKit, Siri, AirPlay, Apple Music, Photos, apps, etc.).
As for Harmony, it’s wonderful and it sucks in equal measure. Setup is atrocious, even with the newest Harmony Hub (the iOS app is needlessly slow and confusing). It’s flexible as hell, but you’ve got to WANT to make the thing work. But once it does work, it’s awesome. And you can hand your significant other, kids, or guests a remote that looks like a real remote and has nice big buttons that say exactly what you want to do (“Watch a Movie,” “Watch Apple TV,” etc.). I have two Harmony Hubs in my house, and have set up my Mom/Stepdad, Dad/Stepmom, best friend, and uncle with them as well.
And just think, this all could have been avoided if Sonos had just stuck one more damn HDMI port on the freaking Arc…. ;-)
I understand why it was not included, and would have been shocked given Sonos history if it had, but I would have liked to see it included.
I’m new to Sonos so don't know anything about their history, but from what I see and hear I’m getting a serious “Apple vibe” in terms of how they think and act. And I’ve been an Apple guy for decades at this point so that’s a mentality I fully get, no matter how frustrating it is sometimes.
Sonos made a very conscious decision to have the Arc be as ultra-simple as possible which, in the long run, is absolutely going to be the right call. Within a few years there will be a plurality of TVs out there that support HDMI-eARC and those owners who purchase the Arc will be very happy, indeed as they’ll get the best possible sound by hooking up only a single HDMI cable from their TV to their Arcs. Simple, easy, effective, user-friendly…. if you have the right/newest equipment. Very much the Apple way. ;-)
It’s just causing us pain at the moment because eARC is pretty bleeding edge and we Arc early adopters still want everything it brings to the table. Which is why I’m super glad we’ve got people out there like HDFury who are helping us work around these teething pains.
I feel you, but at the same time I’m kind of looking forward to Arcana being the simplest possible solution to do what I want it to do - give me a way to get Atmos from my external devices to my Sonos Arc. I have no doubt that HDFury could (and probably will, down the road), throw the kitchen sink at this problem and come up with a solution that does everything anyone could possibly want. But I also have no doubt that that will take a lot longer and cost a whole lot more and will be a lot more complicated.
I can agree with this, and don’t really know how complicate it would be. As I’ve said before adding more features to Arcana is taking away potential sales from other items. As far as the kitchen sink goes, not 100% sure how big the market is for this, and they already pretty much cover everything with a combo of vertex2 and arcana. I would not be surprised to see a vertex 3 have an eARC port added though.
At this point, I’m going to count it as a minor miracle if they actually get Arcana into consumers’ hands by September/October considering that we’ve had our Arcs for a grand total of about 2 weeks now. I’m sure there will be other options that will open up other functionality but if I can just get Atmos from my source to the Arc, I'll, personally, be happy.
This is the first I’m really seeing a product grow from original inception/need to actual product, so it’s interesting to see how all this develops.
(I, personally, will be VERY happy indeed considering that I don’t care a thing in the world about built-in TV apps or CEC control since I never use the apps and control everything with a Harmony Hub - but I may be in the minority).
I do use TV apps right now, and firetv. I tend to use the TV apps because I like the interface better, but also will share content across 2 TVs at times, which i can’t do with TV apps. So it may be for the better. And I don’t have a harmony remote, and all these changes are driving me in the direction of needing/wanting one.
And just think, this all could have been avoided if Sonos had just stuck one more damn HDMI port on the freaking Arc…. ;-)
I understand why it was not included, and would have been shocked given Sonos history if it had, but I would have liked to see it included.
There was mention of ‘big players’ getting involved, so perhaps the feature was requested by someone who could commit to a large order, or something of that nature.
I could see that. They specifically mentioned in one of the posts that it was a distributor they were talking to so maybe?
One thought that popped into my mind though about this new change though. That being that the majority of TVs being sold today are smart TVs, with multiple HDMI inputs, CEC commands. and at least ARC capabilities. Applying the Arcana solution currently means you give up all that functionality. In order to use the TVs smart apps (or switching capabilities) you would need to get one of HDFury’s more expensive products or Thenaudio’s SHARC + HDMI switch...so a minimum of around $175 USD in addition to Arcana….to use some of what you’ve already paid for (still no HDMI switching at TV or CEC commands).
However, if HDFury would make the HDMI video output port on the Arcana ARC capable...able to receive ARC signal from the TV and pass it through to the HDMI port connected to the TV...then much of the TVs functionality is regained. Smart app audio from the TV would pass to the Arcana and then on to the Arc, for DD+, Atmos. Other HDMI inputs to the TV would also pass through the same connection, so there isn’t a need for an external switch, You would still have the one source where you what TrueHD/eARC that would go into the Arcana, pass video to the TV, and send audio to the Arc.
That sounds simple enough, but I’m not really sure what all goes into being an ARC ‘sink’ device, or to properly switch to the right audio and video combo depending on the current source. Probably more difficult then I think. I would not be surprised if such a feature added $100 to the costs and not really as appealing to consumers.
I feel you, but at the same time I’m kind of looking forward to Arcana being the simplest possible solution to do what I want it to do - give me a way to get Atmos from my external devices to my Sonos Arc. I have no doubt that HDFury could (and probably will, down the road), throw the kitchen sink at this problem and come up with a solution that does everything anyone could possibly want. But I also have no doubt that that will take a lot longer and cost a whole lot more and will be a lot more complicated.
At this point, I’m going to count it as a minor miracle if they actually get Arcana into consumers’ hands by September/October considering that we’ve had our Arcs for a grand total of about 2 weeks now. I’m sure there will be other options that will open up other functionality but if I can just get Atmos from my source to the Arc, I'll, personally, be happy.
(I, personally, will be VERY happy indeed considering that I don’t care a thing in the world about built-in TV apps or CEC control since I never use the apps and control everything with a Harmony Hub - but I may be in the minority).
And just think, this all could have been avoided if Sonos had just stuck one more damn HDMI port on the freaking Arc…. ;-)
This is probably the key. They realized that they could make the product more user friendly, easier to understand, and, importantly, something that worked out of the box as a stand-alone product if you only had one device to hook up. Which might describe a bunch of people (99% of my viewing is done via Apple TV, so while I’ll probably still get an HDMI switch for the extra functionality, there are plenty of others who may not). All for very little additional cost.
Plus, it’s obvious they’d been getting a lot of push-back on the Discord channel about the total cost of potentially having to Pair Arcana with Diva/Maestro/Vertex2. While those may be wonderful products, they’re not cheap by any means.
There was mention of ‘big players’ getting involved, so perhaps the feature was requested by someone who could commit to a large order, or something of that nature.
One thought that popped into my mind though about this new change though. That being that the majority of TVs being sold today are smart TVs, with multiple HDMI inputs, CEC commands. and at least ARC capabilities. Applying the Arcana solution currently means you give up all that functionality. In order to use the TVs smart apps (or switching capabilities) you would need to get one of HDFury’s more expensive products or Thenaudio’s SHARC + HDMI switch...so a minimum of around $175 USD in addition to Arcana….to use some of what you’ve already paid for (still no HDMI switching at TV or CEC commands).
However, if HDFury would make the HDMI video output port on the Arcana ARC capable...able to receive ARC signal from the TV and pass it through to the HDMI port connected to the TV...then much of the TVs functionality is regained. Smart app audio from the TV would pass to the Arcana and then on to the Arc, for DD+, Atmos. Other HDMI inputs to the TV would also pass through the same connection, so there isn’t a need for an external switch, You would still have the one source where you what TrueHD/eARC that would go into the Arcana, pass video to the TV, and send audio to the Arc.
That sounds simple enough, but I’m not really sure what all goes into being an ARC ‘sink’ device, or to properly switch to the right audio and video combo depending on the current source. Probably more difficult then I think. I would not be surprised if such a feature added $100 to the costs and not really as appealing to consumers.
Also, there is no doubt that the device will need an external power source, since HDMI splitting requires additional power. I imagine it with be USB powered so it can connect to the back of a most TVs
I believe they’ve said there’s a USB-C port on it to provide power. I doubt they’ll include a power supply in the box for the cost they’re going for, but HDFury has been pleasantly surprising me throughout all of this so who knows.
As long as it’s standard/typical requirements for the cable and power supply, no problem.
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