can we please get dts hd and dts x it is 2022 afterall

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116 replies

G
Userlevel 7

Would also love to know your experiences with the Sony system - looking for something that can handle DTS-HD/Master

There is a helpful comparison and review here of the Sonos Arc vs the Sony HT-A9:

https://www.rtings.com/soundbar/tools/compare/sonos-arc-vs-sony-ht-a9/13760/27047

I did think the HT-A9 was having audio dropout issues, so you may want to research that further too before making a purchase decision?

https://us.community.sony.com/s/question/0D54O00007AcFZJSA3/hta9-dropouts

 

Thanks for posting both of these, super helpful. The issue is that almost all of my Blu-Ray collection is DTS-HD or up, so even if Sonos rates slightly higher, I’m missing out on a whole realm by not putting everything up on Craigslist and moving on. 

If you set your Blu-ray player to convert DTS to PCM, you can get Multichannel PCM audio from all of your DTS-HD Master Audio encoded discs which sounds just as good.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
J
Userlevel 4
Badge +6

Why did you buy sonos knowing full well it doesn’t support these formats ? If you really wanted DTS-HD you could have got any number of sound bars or any number of receivers that do . The percentage of people still using physical disks or Plex is declining so why would a company spend millions implementing a format that a very small percentage use .  I know I’m harsh but here are some numbers I just looked up. 
Just in the US alone Netflix has almost 75 million subscribers . Units of UHD players sold last year is not even 500k . Then how many of those players will be used with a sonos arc or beam ? Very very small percentage . 

Not sure who you are referring to as “you” here. None of my posts indicate I was in any way misled or surprised to learn of the lack of DTS-HD and DTS:X support on my Arc after I bought it. In fact, for me, I only made the decision to buy the Arc once it was clear there was going to at least be support for LPCM.  As for UHD players sold last year, sure, it is a shrinking market.  But focusing only on last year sales fails to acknowledge the existing installed base of all the players still in use.  And maybe that is still a small portion of the Sonos customer base.  Got it.  But it certainly includes me.

Btw, your points, which are valid, were previously also raised by others, and yet Sonos reversed its decision to not provide any support for DTS by later adding support for basic DTS.  What changed?  Well, customers requested it.  Whether Sonos ever provides support for DTS-HD and DTS:X is obviously up to them.  Maybe it’s just not worth the cost to them.  Maybe they will add it.  But its hardly an unreasonable suggestion in terms of a feature request for a sound bar.

 

HT: Arc + Era 300s + Subs (G3/G2) + Sony A80L + Sony UBP-X800M2
G
Userlevel 7

Would also love to know your experiences with the Sony system - looking for something that can handle DTS-HD/Master

There is a helpful comparison and review here of the Sonos Arc vs the Sony HT-A9:

https://www.rtings.com/soundbar/tools/compare/sonos-arc-vs-sony-ht-a9/13760/27047

I did think the HT-A9 was having audio dropout issues, so you may want to research that further too before making a purchase decision?

https://us.community.sony.com/s/question/0D54O00007AcFZJSA3/hta9-dropouts

 

Thanks for posting both of these, super helpful. The issue is that almost all of my Blu-Ray collection is DTS-HD or up, so even if Sonos rates slightly higher, I’m missing out on a whole realm by not putting everything up on Craigslist and moving on. 

If you set your Blu-ray player to convert DTS to PCM, you can get Multichannel PCM audio from all of your DTS-HD Master Audio encoded discs which sounds just as good.

 

That only works if you’re using eARC right? I have an Arc but my current TV doesn’t have eARC

Yes, eARC is required for Multichannel PCM audio. But eARC is also required for DTS-HD Master Audio and DTS:X too. Without eARC, you are limited to lossy DTS Digital Surround (which Sonos supports) or Stereo PCM from DTS-encoded discs.

"Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you." - Rashi
M

@Macro dynamics It’s difficult for Sonos to spend money on lossless DTS support when major TV manufacturers like LG and Samsung aren’t even supporting it anymore.

Yeah I wonder if years from now. DTS will have a comeback and dominate the market like Dolby is currently doing. Then we'll have tvs that only have DTS. 

G
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

It was good that they at least supported basic DTS (only recently) because otherwise you would either get stereo or no sound at all from Blu Rays (not that I am 100% sure as I don’t use Blu Rays).  The fact is, people who buy Blu Rays are now very much a niche market and I assume Sonos has to pay a large nominal licensing fee (I really find the hassle of having blu rays outweigh by the benefits personally).   In situations like these I sometimes wonder whether companies like Sonos or even Samsung (which refuses to pay the licensing for Dolby Vision in its TVs) should just offer a service to platinum customers who are willing to pay a fee for these codecs if they really want them.  

So its not a technical issue - that is simple.  Its all about licensing (they are 1s and 0s at the end of the day).  Yes they are penny pinching because a lot of competitors who sell far less product than them pay it.  

In theory if your internet is 1 gigabit, there should be no reason why you shouldnt be able to stream a full Blu Ray quality video with uncompressed Atmos (even though 99% of people couldn’t care less).  I smell an opportunity for streaming companies to support that in upper tiers for real video/audiophiles who also want the convenience.  

M

It was good that they at least supported basic DTS (only recently) because otherwise you would either get stereo or no sound at all from Blu Rays (not that I am 100% sure as I don’t use Blu Rays).  The fact is, people who buy Blu Rays are now very much a niche market and I assume Sonos has to pay a large nominal licensing fee (I really find the hassle of having blu rays outweigh by the benefits personally).   In situations like these I sometimes wonder whether companies like Sonos or even Samsung (which refuses to pay the licensing for Dolby Vision in its TVs) should just offer a service to platinum customers who are willing to pay a fee for these codecs if they really want them.  

So its not a technical issue - that is simple.  Its all about licensing (they are 1s and 0s at the end of the day).  Yes they are penny pinching because a lot of competitors who sell far less product than them pay it.  

In theory if your internet is 1 gigabit, there should be no reason why you shouldnt be able to stream a full Blu Ray quality video with uncompressed Atmos (even though 99% of people couldn’t care less).  I smell an opportunity for streaming companies to support that in upper tiers for real video/audiophiles who also want the convenience.  

I actually wonder what the next step is after streaming. Because the thing is with buying physical media, it can often be more of an experience. & releases are often loaded with extras. And if you have your favourite movies on the shelf anytime you want to reach for them they are there. I totally understand having the space though to store them can be problematic. It's why about a year ago I had a clear out and made decisions to only collect movies I would rewatch. Apologies for getting off subject

K
Userlevel 1

C'mon Sonos, be "humble enough to listen to customers" (as your CEO put it https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/sonos-patrick-spence-listening-customers-era-100-era-300/) and make this tiny change that will impact so many of your customers 😁

melvimbe

It was good that they at least supported basic DTS (only recently) because otherwise you would either get stereo or no sound at all from Blu Rays (not that I am 100% sure as I don’t use Blu Rays).  The fact is, people who buy Blu Rays are now very much a niche market and I assume Sonos has to pay a large nominal licensing fee (I really find the hassle of having blu rays outweigh by the benefits personally).   In situations like these I sometimes wonder whether companies like Sonos or even Samsung (which refuses to pay the licensing for Dolby Vision in its TVs) should just offer a service to platinum customers who are willing to pay a fee for these codecs if they really want them.  

So its not a technical issue - that is simple.  Its all about licensing (they are 1s and 0s at the end of the day).  Yes they are penny pinching because a lot of competitors who sell far less product than them pay it.  

 

 

There is also the dev and maintenance costs associated with supportting another format.  You could argue that that is less of a concern for a product that doesn’t provide firmware updates than one that does.  However, since Sonos did eventually adopt DTS, it does seem that licensing was the bigger hurdle to overcome.

 

I do wonder sometimes if Sonos doesn’t adopt a standard because they don’t think it presents their product in the best light, at least currently.  That was the case with bluetooth audio I think.  You could argue that Apple often takes a similar stance, such as having their own Lightning cable rather than following the standard USB.  Apple tends to be praised more for it, as a lot of people trust them, and the have more control over markets.

 

In theory if your internet is 1 gigabit, there should be no reason why you shouldnt be able to stream a full Blu Ray quality video with uncompressed Atmos (even though 99% of people couldn’t care less).  I smell an opportunity for streaming companies to support that in upper tiers for real video/audiophiles who also want the convenience.  

 

I don’t think we’re there yet.  And I suspect streaming services will start offering 8k video before they start offering uncompressed audio.  Just feels like that would draw in more customers, even if it may not actually be as beneficial to customers.  It’s a ways away though as I don’t think gigabit service to homes has nearly the penetration needed for this to make sense, nor do I think streaming services are looking to compete with this sort of offering.  We are seeing that sort of competition with music streaming services because they essentially have the same content, and  higher quality is the only way they really can compete.

 

I actually wonder what the next step is after streaming. Because the thing is with buying physical media, it can often be more of an experience. & releases are often loaded with extras. And if you have your favourite movies on the shelf anytime you want to reach for them they are there. I totally understand having the space though to store them can be problematic. It's why about a year ago I had a clear out and made decisions to only collect movies I would rewatch. Apologies for getting off subject

 

I don’t think the upcoming generation has any real concept or need to buy physical media.  They honestly don’t even really have much of a concept of owning media.  It’s all subscription service to them.  Maybe trends will go back to owning your own digital copy again, if subscription prices get out of control, leading to piracy, leading publishers to look at cheaper a la carte options.  But maybe not.   I do think that eventually, we will move away from the ‘cloud computing’ trend and homes will start having local servers.  I can see a setup where you still have subscription services, but instead of getting the content from a cloud server, you’re getting it from your own home server, that gets updated from the cloud and a much less frequent basis.  Subscription service lowers cost and you get a little more privacy, plus whatever local smart home processing you need.  But that’s a guess.  It does feel like we cycle between local processing and cloud/server processing as time goes by. 

Danny
R
Userlevel 1

They seem quite deaf on this argument, In time they will loose customers.

M
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

So many people arguing some dumb stuff.

To say Movie’s aren’t even coming out in DTS-HD / X anymore is ignorant.

You can pre-order movies now that only have a DTS track, because they are a re-release into 4k an they chose not to bring the audio to TrueHD.

So movies are coming out quite regularly in DTS HD and DTS X format.  Doesn’t matter if ‘new’ movies are TrueHD, how are people going to enjoy their Alien 4k movie that’s in DTS:X? Just going to skip the spatial audio and listen to LPCM?

In the case of DTS-HD converting to LPCM is fine because it’s 100% the same data (but decoded by the player), however DTS:X is still a spatial audio used (that won’t translate in LPCM) - and any 4k already re-released in DTS is unlikely to get another release in TrueHD… 

M
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

So many people arguing some dumb stuff.

To say Movie’s aren’t even coming out in DTS-HD / X anymore is ignorant.

You can pre-order movies now that only have a DTS track, because they are a re-release into 4k an they chose not to bring the audio to TrueHD.

So movies are coming out quite regularly in DTS HD and DTS X format.  Doesn’t matter if ‘new’ movies are TrueHD, how are people going to enjoy their Alien 4k movie that’s in DTS:X? Just going to skip the spatial audio and listen to LPCM?

In the case of DTS-HD converting to LPCM is fine because it’s 100% the same data (but decoded by the player), however DTS:X is still a spatial audio used (that won’t translate in LPCM) - and any 4k already re-released in DTS is unlikely to get another release in TrueHD… 

 

Are you referring to the original “Alien”, one of the sequels, or just any movie with aliens in them?   Perhaps you have different sources, but I can’t find Alien recorded in DTS X anywhere.  DTS and DTS HD, yes, but not DTS X.

Meant generally, I wish the Alien series would get a 4k conversion with TrueHD and an Atmos upgrade… I’d be in heaven, would hate to see if they got a DTS:X Upgrade, given Sonos as it is.

M
Userlevel 2
Badge +2

So many people arguing some dumb stuff.

To say Movie’s aren’t even coming out in DTS-HD / X anymore is ignorant.

You can pre-order movies now that only have a DTS track, because they are a re-release into 4k an they chose not to bring the audio to TrueHD.

So movies are coming out quite regularly in DTS HD and DTS X format.  Doesn’t matter if ‘new’ movies are TrueHD, how are people going to enjoy their Alien 4k movie that’s in DTS:X? Just going to skip the spatial audio and listen to LPCM?

In the case of DTS-HD converting to LPCM is fine because it’s 100% the same data (but decoded by the player), however DTS:X is still a spatial audio used (that won’t translate in LPCM) - and any 4k already re-released in DTS is unlikely to get another release in TrueHD… 

 

Are you referring to the original “Alien”, one of the sequels, or just any movie with aliens in them?   Perhaps you have different sources, but I can’t find Alien recorded in DTS X anywhere.  DTS and DTS HD, yes, but not DTS X.

Meant generally, I wish the Alien series would get a 4k conversion with TrueHD and an Atmos upgrade… I’d be in heaven, would hate to see if they got a DTS:X Upgrade, given Sonos as it is.

 

So is there any example of an old movie that was originally created before spatial audio existed that has been re-recorded in DTS:X?  I found this list and there does appear to be some older movies available. Although I’m not sure everything on the list is accurate.

During the DTS era, yes there were some movies converted from DTS-HD-MA to a DTS:X in like a re-release.  DTS is still present, and some movies are still dropping with it - so it’s not infeasible they could still make new DTS:X - but I would think they’ll just shift to TrueHD at that point.

Really the issue here is, not every movie we or anyone wants to see came out 2021 and newer only, some movies may not get a 4k re-release, or even a new blu-ray with TrueHD. - and Sonos continues to offer no DTS-HD or DTS:X licensing to watch some of our old favorites -- then we may never get to appreciate it… Harry Potter? Who knows if they’ll drop an Atmos version - but it’s in DTS:X and the last collection released was in 2021….

B
Userlevel 3
Badge +2

I’ve criticised Sonos on these forums for not supporting DTS particularly when the Playbar was current and discs were more common . The strength of Sonos is simplicity with only one input which also becomes its weakness if the TV doesn’t pass through all audio formats. With less TVs passing through DTS unless Sonos start offering multiple HDMI ports I don’t think it matters now particularly as multi channel pcm (if that’s the correct term) is now supported. From my perspective I very rarely buy discs any more, Apple TV and other services have rendered everything else obsolete. I think you just need to buy with the knowledge that Sonos has limitations for those seeking the latest and greatest audio formats but can’t be beaten for convenience.

M

I have ripped BluRay disks from my personal library including Atmos, DTS-HD and DTS-X which I play from my Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 using a Sonos Arc, Sub, and 2x surround One speakers. I do not have a working BluRay player, hence the Shield.

 

Dolby Atmos files sound brilliant, punchy, immersive.

 

DTS-HD/DTS-X passed through as Multichannel PCM 5.1 sound comparatively nowhere near as good as Atmos files. Lacklustre, and the volume needs to be increased to 90% (!!) on the Arc for borderline satisfactory results.

 

I am extremely irritated that Sonos have not included all modern codecs, and though I love what the soundbar does do well, poor business decisions by Sonos limit the full potential of this home theatre setup in many use cases. This is a premium product and should have such features if only by principle - the system I own is being sold at 2300 euros - there are soundbars out there for 300 pounds which support DTS lossless codecs!!

 

I am a Sonos fanboy usually, but this is poor. I haven’t said anything that someone hasn’t said before, but it’s important to make your voice heard.

 

I would be happier paying to use the codecs as a one-off purchase model, as long as the option is there!! Not that I would be happy with this, but it would be better than dropping 250 pounds on a HDFury Arcana, for example.

skullc
Userlevel 6
Badge +12

@MrZeDark just checked my Harry Potter steel book collection and it is hdr10 and dts-hd master 7.1 

The apple tv version I have is dolby vision and 5.1 dolby digital…

Just thought I'd offer that information 😊

Network= livewire cpe pro 3 +eero 6 pro wireless
M

@Corry P

Thank you for this considered response. I am aware that different media management apps will manage these codecs with varying degrees of success - I am using Kodi for playback. With my current settings, I was aiming to have Kodi processing DTS-HD / DTS-X codecs into LPCM 5.1, but playing these results in the Sonos app saying I am getting Multichannel PCM 5.1 through. To be honest I am fairly new to this, and I’m not even sure if LPCM 5.1 is the same thing as Multichannel PCM 5.1 even after a little bit of research 😅

 

I will try running these same files through Emby/Plex and seeing what the result is, that does seems sensible. Kodi can be temperamental a lot of the time.

 

The difference between lossy Dolby Digital(+) and lossless Dolby Atmos / DTS-HD is night and day to me, and I would really appreciate these being more plug and play rather than fiddling around with Shield, choice of playback app, and Sonos settings. My TV can passthrough DTS no problem, to be honest I have become confused over which settings in the Shield to enable or disable (i.e Dolby sound processing, Kodi passthrough, Kodi 2.0/5.1 channels etc) and it just seems as though the Arc supporting the codecs makes more sense in the long-run, or to purchase a different system that natively supports the codecs.

 

I did not know about remuxing audio files into supported formats! This is very interesting information to know and I will be doing some looking into this. :)

 

Ken_Griffiths

Hope that Sonos add the dts hd and dts x support now. 

Imax and Disney+ are releasing movies from Disney library, in Imax and DTS X audio.

So Sonos, what are your intents? With Lg reintroducing DTS, Sony and HISense already in, for sure others will follow . Sonos you should acknowledge that DTS X is not dead, just the opposite.

I may stand corrected here, but I thought LG were only going to offer it as ‘pass-through’ support on some TV models. Dolby codecs will still be available on all their TV’s - at least I thought that was the agreement/intention between LG and Xperi. That said, the more codecs supported by Sonos, the better.

Ken_Griffiths

DTS HD & DTS X would be amazing. Like 60% of my physical media collections would have new life breathed into it! Imagine if sonos made this happen for Christmas 2022. Wouldn't that be incredible. 

I’m curious. Would you pay for the mentioned codecs and if so, how much? What if it was a monthly subscription?

I’m thinking that if there was a suggestion that people might be happy to pay for these additional codecs, then perhaps Sonos might go onto introduce these things as there is probably a licence fee attached to them for their use.

G
Userlevel 3
Badge

I don't think a muti million dollar company like sonos should have any issues covering the cost. 

M

I’ve criticised Sonos on these forums for not supporting DTS particularly when the Playbar was current and discs were more common . The strength of Sonos is simplicity with only one input which also becomes its weakness if the TV doesn’t pass through all audio formats. With less TVs passing through DTS unless Sonos start offering multiple HDMI ports I don’t think it matters now particularly as multi channel pcm (if that’s the correct term) is now supported. From my perspective I very rarely buy discs any more, Apple TV and other services have rendered everything else obsolete. I think you just need to buy with the knowledge that Sonos has limitations for those seeking the latest and greatest audio formats but can’t be beaten for convenience.

So is multi channel pcm exactly the same & It just doesn't say DTS on the app? Or is it different without the proper DTS codec?

G

Hi @daryld1988 

Thanks for your post!

I've marked this thread as a feature request and it will be seen by the relevant teams for consideration.

HI Corry,

Thanks for raising this issue. Any updates from the teams?

 

 

 

L
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

I’ve criticised Sonos on these forums for not supporting DTS particularly when the Playbar was current and discs were more common . The strength of Sonos is simplicity with only one input which also becomes its weakness if the TV doesn’t pass through all audio formats. With less TVs passing through DTS unless Sonos start offering multiple HDMI ports I don’t think it matters now particularly as multi channel pcm (if that’s the correct term) is now supported. From my perspective I very rarely buy discs any more, Apple TV and other services have rendered everything else obsolete. I think you just need to buy with the knowledge that Sonos has limitations for those seeking the latest and greatest audio formats but can’t be beaten for convenience.

So is multi channel pcm exactly the same & It just doesn't say DTS on the app? Or is it different without the proper DTS codec?

From what I think I understand so far, LPCM or multichannel PCM 5.1 or or 7.1 surround sound playback will sound as good as DTS or DTS:HD. Both process full surround sound up to 8 channels or 7.1.

https://www.the-home-cinema-guide.com/blu-ray-audio-codecs-explained.html

M
Badge

+1 from me.

L
Userlevel 3
Badge +3

My current question/investigation is around passing LPCM from DTS:X (spacial/object-based sound like Dolby Atmos) from 4K UHD Discs. Does DTS:X object-based/height speaker data layer pass through LPCM?

Apparently Dolby Atmos height speaker effect/data will not pass through LPCM but not a problem since the Sonos ARC processes Dolby Atmos fully to include the two front ARC height speakers.

However, from what I read, the main difference between Dolby Atmos and DTS:X is that you can experience DTS:X using a conventional 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system. 

When I pass LPCM from DTS:X 4K UHD Blu-ray to the Arc 5.1.2, I think I hear the spacial/object-based effect, but so far haven't been able to isolate specific sounds coming from the height speakers with the DTS:X content I've tried so far passed through as LPCM.

ratty

It would be a brave product manager who proposed a project, with significant opportunity costs, in the hope that an unknown fraction of a fraction of the users would subscribe and deliver some incremental revenue -- using, I might add, a new business model -- to cover it.

The general philosophy at Sonos appears to be that physical formats are heading the way of the dodo, and that streaming will dominate.

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