Sono CEO -
Your software is now breaking all of the time and unreliable. Invest in your software development capability because if you don’t - you die.
Easy, Reliable - “it just works” is what I expect. Get there Sonos! You are better than this!
#long-time-Sonos customer/advocate/evangelist
Richard Hunter
Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.
trellos,
I am not seeing the spinner. To me, this indicates some sort of App or communication slowdown.
With respect to the SONOS lock screen: SONOS has indicated why the lock screen control has been eliminated. When I’m using the Spotify App to play through SONOS, the lock screen shows the current track and I can pause and skip, but I cannot adjust Volume.
With respect to adjusting Volume via the lock screen in a multi-room setup, which room should be adjusted? How could the lock screen know which room to adjust? I would be upset if someone else adjusted my room’s Volume.
Lock screen control is not something that I’ve used beyond kicking the tires. A service that would be useful to me would be automatic Mute or Volume reduction when I answer the phone. However, how would the phone know its current location? I don’t think that you would appreciate a kid’s phone muting your room.
On my Android, when playing through the Spotify App, while there is no Volume indicator on the lock screen, I can adjust Volume via the hard buttons. This not a useful feature because the response is to erratic. Response is never prompt and can lag by a second or two our simply be ignored.
So they don’t bother to try to support lock screen controls? Wow. Seems to be no sweat for every other app, so just underline’s OP’s original point.
All my Sonos devices have fixed IPs in my DHCP server. Tip from reading these forums. They don’t play out of sync.
Are you using iOS devices as controllers? If so, you may wish to read this:
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/release-notes-for-sonos-s2
All my Sonos devices have fixed IPs in my DHCP server. Tip from reading these forums. They don’t play out of sync.
If it’s network issues then they’re network issues that no wifi printer, streaming TV, phone, nest thermostat, iPad, Android tablet, or any of the zillions of devices on my home network suffer from. I did go over their their network connectivity page (this). There are lots of things I don’t know and I’m always looking to learn. But it was just the same boilerplate non-info as anywhere else.
Not a designer for Sonos, just a guy who feels shafted by their poor choices. But if what you’re describing is both cheaper and would work better then sounds like a win?
I just want what I’m assuming is basic functionality… I connect the things to my phone and I can control them. The fact that this thread is so long sort of shows that they often don’t work that way.
None of the devices you listed are trying to get multiple devices playing in sync over your wireless network with very minimal buffering. If your ‘streaming TV’ was trying to get the same video playing on multiple screens wirelessly in perferct sync without issue, you would have a point.
I’m all ears. What about my network could prevent the track from showing up on my lock screen? Seems to work fine on Tidal, Podcasts, Apple TV remote, etc.
Happy to do any network debugging or anything else.
IP conflicts. Unlike most connected devices, Sonos units need to communicate between each other hundreds of times a second in order to play in sync. If your router gets wonky and loses its address table, it can hand out new IP’s that are already in use by current devices. This isn’t going to affect a phone or computer, because most of the time you aren’t using both at the exact same time. It will wreak havoc with Sonos, because Sonos’ design requires the controller to be talking to all devices at once. If two devices have the same IP, stuff starts disappearing, or running slow, or not working at all.
So, try this that I wrote on the first page:
Reboot/power cycle your devices in the following order:
Modem
Router
Switches or hubs
Wired Sonos units
Wireless Sonos units
Computers/printers
Wireless devices - phones/tablets etc.
Allow each device to come back up before proceeding to the next. Note you can prevent this from happening again by reserving IP addresses for your Sonos devices in your router setup. See your router manual for instructions.
I’m all ears. What about my network could prevent the track from showing up on my lock screen? Seems to work fine on Tidal, Podcasts, Apple TV remote, etc.
Happy to do any network debugging or anything else.
26 posts is not “long”. There once was an actual flaw in Sonos software that affected a single model, the Playbar. That thread hit 100 pages in days, and spawned dozens of other threads on the issue. That’s what it looks like when Sonos’ software actually has a flaw. This is just another person who refuses to believe their network has problems. We get them all the time. Some listen to our advice and get fixed, others refuse and stomp off in a huff. No skin off my nose.
If it’s network issues then they’re network issues that no wifi printer, streaming TV, phone, nest thermostat, iPad, Android tablet, or any of the zillions of devices on my home network suffer from. I did go over their their network connectivity page (this). There are lots of things I don’t know and I’m always looking to learn. But it was just the same boilerplate non-info as anywhere else.
Not a designer for Sonos, just a guy who feels shafted by their poor choices. But if what you’re describing is both cheaper and would work better then sounds like a win?
I just want what I’m assuming is basic functionality… I connect the things to my phone and I can control them. The fact that this thread is so long sort of shows that they often don’t work that way.
You’re thinking the Sonos system isn’t working well and easy to use for the employees? What gave you that impression? I would bet all, but a few exceptions, have good home networks where the system works well. The ones that do not do to network interference from neighbors or what have you, have hard wired the system or something else.
Absolutely. I’m not trying to be an internet troll. But if anyone actually used this at home and had a non-engineer try to… say change the volume… they’d just put it on the lock screen. Yes, I’ve read their site and airplay mumble mumble mumble. It could work like every music or podcast or metronome or other app and just put the info where you can easily see it. But just find the app… no the Sonos app… yeah… then watch the spinner… wait for it… Change the volume… no on the screen not the volume buttons... yup it takes a few seconds… no don’t turn it off…
Again, “app volume control” is a bullet point they can claim. But try having a non techie use it and it’s clear they’ve not really put much thought into this.
Sorry, but you’re assumption that the system works poorly for employees and their households is just silly. Your assumption that everyone, or nearly everyone, or even close to a majority, experiences the sort of issues you see and yet Sonos continues to sell speakers to new and repeat customers...doesn’t make a sense.
I’ve heard of people having issues with airplay and seen it myself a bit. completely unrelated to Sonos, but yet millions still use it, so logically, it has to be more reliable than what my personal experience is.
As you’ve already been suggested, it seems like a lot of the issues you bring up are a result of network problems.
And it’s clear that the definition differences between a ‘remote control’ app and a ‘audio’ app are not as clear to you as they might be. Which is a challenge, as that is what Apple is focusing on to force this change. I suppose it’s possible for Sonos to throw away all the work (and speakers) they’ve created since 2005, and shift over to bog standard speakers that play in the same fashion as any other company’s, using a player on the controller device, rather than the speaker. After all, they could leverage their already existing sound design knowledge, and probably sell less expensive speakers, since they’d be able to remove the computer parts (RAM/CPU/Networking electronics) from every device.
But that would be a major shift in their product line, and we would all lose access to all of the speakers we currently use, which might cause a bit of furor. I just don’t see such a change occurring, but who knows, maybe this relatively minor thing is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel’s back…
You’re thinking the Sonos system isn’t working well and easy to use for the employees? What gave you that impression? I would bet all, but a few exceptions, have good home networks where the system works well. The ones that do not do to network interference from neighbors or what have you, have hard wired the system or something else.
Absolutely. I’m not trying to be an internet troll. But if anyone actually used this at home and had a non-engineer try to… say change the volume… they’d just put it on the lock screen. Yes, I’ve read their site and airplay mumble mumble mumble. It could work like every music or podcast or metronome or other app and just put the info where you can easily see it. But just find the app… no the Sonos app… yeah… then watch the spinner… wait for it… Change the volume… no on the screen not the volume buttons... yup it takes a few seconds… no don’t turn it off…
Again, “app volume control” is a bullet point they can claim. But try having a non techie use it and it’s clear they’ve not really put much thought into this.
it’s clear that nobody at Sonos tries this.
From personal experience I know this to be nonsense.
I suggest you focus on fixing your network issues. Sonos Support have tools which can assist with this.
I always figured the software was an afterthought. I mean you’ve already bought the hardware. When it works it violates the whole “don’t make me think” principle. But it is very unstable. The support on the web site is very obvious stuff… yes I’ve checked the wifi signal. I did submit diagnostic info but, as somebody mentioned above, it’s just read by a call center person following a script. At least, nothing about the interaction ran contrary to my impression.
I don’t think of software as an afterthought, but Sonos sells hardware, software is pretty much a necessary evil. Sort of like how no company makes any money by having a good accounting department, but you still need it. Sonos can’t spend a ton of money and effort chasing down the relative few odd cases where the system isn’t working correctly and rather specific home environment. They have to focus on the system working for the vast majority of cases. Especially since those rather specific cases tend to take the most amount of effort to resolve, if they can be resolved.
This sounds pedantic, but when you make software there’s something called “dogfooding”. Basically do you use the thing you’re actually making. Every time a tech savvy teenager in my house asks for my phone to put music on and just gets a spinner, it’s clear that nobody at Sonos tries this.
You’re thinking the Sonos system isn’t working well and easy to use for the employees? What gave you that impression? I would bet all, but a few exceptions, have good home networks where the system works well. The ones that do not do to network interference from neighbors or what have you, have hard wired the system or something else.
I always figured the software was an afterthought. I mean you’ve already bought the hardware. When it works it violates the whole “don’t make me think” principle. But it is very unstable. The support on the web site is very obvious stuff… yes I’ve checked the wifi signal. I did submit diagnostic info but, as somebody mentioned above, it’s just read by a call center person following a script. At least, nothing about the interaction ran contrary to my impression.
This sounds pedantic, but when you make software there’s something called “dogfooding”. Basically do you use the thing you’re actually making. Every time a tech savvy teenager in my house asks for my phone to put music on and just gets a spinner, it’s clear that nobody at Sonos tries this.
It’s too bad because once you have a few of these things you’re more or less locked in. But making software useable is hard, and this is clearly orchestrated by somebody who is only looking at what bullet points it can claim on a box.
If the software were fundamentally flawed then everyone would be having problems. So how come I have been using my Sonos system for 12 years without pronlems?
IT'S YOUR NETWORK
As long as you remain in denial about this you will not resolve your problems.
Ok. Then why has Sonos tech support repeatedly failed to fix it? And why does streaming work pretty reliably, but playing music from my computer does not?
How is your computer connected to your network?
In what format are your local music files?
What is your network setup? Any extenders / access points? Any wired Sonos device(s)?
S1 or S2?
By the way, thank you for providing evidence that the Sonos software is robust. 99.9% of what it does is identical whether streaming from the internet or from a local drive, and you say it is solid for the former. The difference lies in how the music data gets from the source to the router. Streaming from the Internet does not use your network for that. Playing from a local drive does. Go figure.
When SONOS was very young, there essentially was no customer service department and the engineers would be taking calls. As product deployment expanded, an official support group was established and the job offers listed impressive requirements. Evidently, first line support was mostly offshored.
I know of another company that started requiring the design engineers to serve a stint on the support desk and repair departments immediately after a new product was released. Documentation and product serviceability suddenly improved dramatically.
And anyone that expects a Customer Service department paid at likely minimum wage, or close to it, to be experts in tech is deluding themselves. They’ll all be trained based on scripts / scenarios, some will understand better than others, but it can’t be consistent. Nor can any tech company afford to man their CS department with engineers.
Ironically, the people who call in for assistance think they’re talking to a tech guru when in actuality the person on the other end is following a script/scenario based upon “if this...then that”. Some are more adept than others.
IMO the people who participate in this community (on a regular basis) have more expert knowledge than the majority of so-called “tech support” personnel. The only compensation given is a “Like” or “Best Answer” accolade.
So count your Apples and be thankful for the free assistance given in this community. 🤣
And anyone that expects a Customer Service department paid at likely minimum wage, or close to it, to be experts in tech is deluding themselves. They’ll all be trained based on scripts / scenarios, some will understand better than others, but it can’t be consistent. Nor can any tech company afford to man their CS department with engineers.
There once was an actual problem with the software of a single Sonos unit, the Playbar. The main thread on that problem hit 100 pages, which is over 2500 posts, and there were dozens of other smaller threads on the very same problem. This thread hasn't even reached a whole page.
In other words, IT'S YOUR NETWORK. Specifically, it sounds like duplicate IP addresses. These often show up after an update or power outage because a reboot requires the device to request a new IP, and the router, having lost track of current IP assignments, issues a new IP that is in use by another device. To cure this, do the following:
Reboot/power cycle your devices in the following order:
Modem
Router
Switches or hubs
Wired Sonos units
Wireless Sonos units
Computers/printers
Wireless devices - phones/tablets etc.
Allow each device to come back up before proceeding to the next. Note you can prevent this from happening again by reserving IP addresses for your Sonos devices in your router setup. See your router manual for instructions.
Also - power them all down first; then restart in the order
There once was an actual problem with the software of a single Sonos unit, the Playbar. The main thread on that problem hit 100 pages, which is over 2500 posts, and there were dozens of other smaller threads on the very same problem. This thread hasn't even reached a whole page.
In other words, IT'S YOUR NETWORK. Specifically, it sounds like duplicate IP addresses. These often show up after an update or power outage because a reboot requires the device to request a new IP, and the router, having lost track of current IP assignments, issues a new IP that is in use by another device. To cure this, do the following:
Reboot/power cycle your devices in the following order:
Modem
Router
Switches or hubs
Wired Sonos units
Wireless Sonos units
Computers/printers
Wireless devices - phones/tablets etc.
Allow each device to come back up before proceeding to the next. Note you can prevent this from happening again by reserving IP addresses for your Sonos devices in your router setup. See your router manual for instructions.
If the software were fundamentally flawed then everyone would be having problems. So how come I have been using my Sonos system for 12 years without pronlems?
IT'S YOUR NETWORK
As long as you remain in denial about this you will not resolve your problems.
Ok. Then why has Sonos tech support repeatedly failed to fix it? And why does streaming work pretty reliably, but playing music from my computer does not?
If the software were fundamentally flawed then everyone would be having problems. So how come I have been using my Sonos system for 12 years without pronlems?
IT'S YOUR NETWORK
As long as you remain in denial about this you will not resolve your problems.
. Also, if you read the issues I listed, most of them have absolutely nothing to do with my network. The controller not being able to find my music on the same computer that the controller is on doesn’t involve my network at all, and I’ve seen it happen now on two different computers. The app not loading correctly has nothing to do with my network. Getting errors when I try to add things to the que has nothing to do with my network.
With SONOS everything involves the network. The controllers don’t play anything. You can think of the controllers as complex remote controls. All commands and music play are done through the players. SONOS Playlists, the music library index, music service registrations, and the Queue are maintained in the players. A copy of this data is stored in each player, a controller does not store anything critical. The controllers must access this data over the network. A controller will “Associate” with a player and fetch its data through this player. The Associated player is not necessarily playing any music. Once music play is started, you could uninstall the controllers and the music will continue. In the case of music stored on a computer, a controller will initiate play through a player and the player will fetch data directly from the computer. Obviously, in this case the computer must stay awake while SONOS needs the music data, but the controller could be shut down.
If you pair players, the left player will become the pair’s “Coordinator”. All traffic for the pair is initiated by the Coordinator. If Rooms are Grouped, the first player in the Group is the Group’s Coordinator. All Group traffic passes through the Group Coordinator.
As you can see a simple request to play a track in a Group of Rooms generates a blizzard of local network traffic. This is very different from displaying a web page or fetching and sending email.
I’ve had Sonos for years. I’ve spent hours on the phone with tech support. The issues are never resolved. Most of the time when I want to play my own music from the computer that the controller is on it says that it can’t find the folder. I’ve never had a music app that couldn’t find the music on the same computer that the app is on. I constantly get errors when I try to add music to the que. The Android app is very slow to load, and it often doesn’t load correctly so it doesn’t show me my play lists. Even when it does load it’s impossible to get it to play one of those playlists because of errors. If by some miracle I get my music to play, one of the speakers will keep dropping in and out. I have to press pause and play a few times on that speaker to get it to play continuously. Many times I’ve had it start playing one song, and then skip to the next one before that song finishes. These are not network issues. They are software issues. I’ve been doing quality assurance testing for the last 13 years in new product design and development. I would be ashamed to let any of our products go out the door with even one issue that is this severe. The Android play store review section is full of users having the same issues, so I know it’s not just me. I do not recommend Sonos to anyone. In fact, when the topic comes up I actively recommend that they buy something else. The speakers are great, but the constant unresolved issues make them almost unusable. I would expect better from a cheap system. With the price of Sonos speakers this is completely unacceptable.
What changes are happening in the software, to make your system work one day and not the next? My suspicion: nothing. You download the latest version of app, and update the speakers. Then (unless Sonos is pushing updates to selected users) nothing changes in the software or firmware.
If your system then behaves differently from day to day, the cause must surely be outside of the software? That suggests it’s a user environment issue - and the usual suspects I’ve seen on these threads are wifi interference, duplicate ip addresses, wifi channel hopping etc But that’s not anything to do with software.
It’s not changing from one day to the next. It’s consistently bad. Also, intermittent bugs can happen because of timing issues and things like that in the software. Just because an issue doesn’t happen 100% of the time, doesn’t mean it’s not a bug. Like I said, I do this for a living. I’ve seen my share of intermittent issues that were 100% a software issue. Also, if you read the issues I listed, most of them have absolutely nothing to do with my network. The controller not being able to find my music on the same computer that the controller is on doesn’t involve my network at all, and I’ve seen it happen now on two different computers. The app not loading correctly has nothing to do with my network. Getting errors when I try to add things to the que has nothing to do with my network. As for my network, I have the most basic network you could possibly ask for. It consists of a modem and an off the shelf router. The only changes I’ve made to the router settings are the ones that Sonos tech support told me to make. I would also like to reiterate that I’ve spent a lot of time talking to Sonos tech support and have followed every instruction they’ve given me to try to resolve these issues. Nothing has worked, and the problems persisted even after I bought a new router. No other devices on my network are having problems. Constantly denying that the problems exist does not solve them. As an end user, I have done everything in my power to fix this. Sonos needs to step up and make software that works reliably.
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