This is offered for your system management and senior development staff, please forward
I have had SONOS installed in our home (a $15K system) for 4+ years and it works and sounds great, but.... You keep updating your app to add features and "correct bugs". You are driving users nuts, it's a sound system, not a critical heart monitor or sophisticated pc. We have 2 i-phones, 2-ipads and a Mac. Everytime you update, we can't turn the system on or off. and the update takes some time. First, if you are going to update, advise the user that an update is available and leave system control capability available until the update is complete. Organize your updates so they are made periodically, like every 3-4 months rather than as some developer gets a wild hair. Test your systems before released, this last round had 3, 4,... who knows how many updates to fix bugs.
If you are not a teenager, are gainfully employed, have kids, are not independently wealthy, are over 60 or only moderately technically sophisticated, a smooth and reliable update process with cool new features that are better described would be a giant step toward better customer satisfaction. Apple does it pretty well, so can SONOS.
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I do recognise that the churn that Sonos indulges in for the most part via its updates - black to white and back to black is a classic example - is a requirement of its target market that is easily and quickly bored with the UI. I would be as happy with annual updates as with quarterly for a home audio system. But it seems to me that there can be a via media between those in the Sonos market such as I, and those easily bored that yearn for the next cool thing, though I don't have too many hopes in that direction.
Userlevel 7
+22
I'd be happy with optional updates that aren't essential to Sonos operation and mandatory updates that are essential.
Having the "No update" option that might leave a system with no access to on-line services might make some folks happy too.
Having the "No update" option that might leave a system with no access to on-line services might make some folks happy too.
The cool thing about Sonos is how easily it allows access to music. It is hard to keep doing cool changes to that all the time; it ends up being frenetic noise, with the cool thing attempts in dribbles and drabbles and fixes to fix the uncool things about the cool additions in another wave of dribbles.
I almost agree with you here. I'd have been happy with the Sonos system I bought years ago staying that way. For me, the most valuable improvement in the life of my system has been the addition of "favourites" (though if Sonos ever get close to finishing them, the "My Sonos" and "ephemeral-by-default queue" changes could be pretty cool). Other than addressing the fixed navigation bar and a few visual design issues on mobile, many of the recent changes have been bug fixes and hidden improvements. Sonos have actually been pretty restrained about making major changes to the UI except with infrequent major release. Bugs, which are inevitable, have a tendency of not respecting release schedules. Stability is a priority, and being able to push bug fixes quickly is a must.
It's also important to remember that new features aren't just for the benefit of existing users (Sonos already have our money, though they want us to expand our speaker collection), but to make the system more attractive to new customers. Unreleased code has no value, and there's a clear incentive for Sonos to adopt modern agile rapid release schedules.
"Modern agile rapid release schedules" - that is an impressive phrase indeed, though I still question if it applies to a very slowly evolving home audio system. I do see the word "schedules" in it, still defined I find as "a plan for carrying out a process or procedure, giving lists of intended events and times." Not quite how Sonos releases its updates, is it?
And if doing this in the manner it is done by Sonos is needed to attract new customers, Sonos is in more trouble than we think.
I believe I read here about Amazon as some one that also does this. I have no clue - because Amazon does not ask me to do what Sonos does, for every release. Updates happen on my Echo/Dot devices in the background and in six months of use, I have never had to do anything or even notice that happening. So if Sonos is said to follow the Amazon lead in these modern practices, they need to provide all of the Amazon delivery mechanism as well.
Oh, it absolutely applies. The world has largely moved on from the bad old days of having to meet a fixed release date because your software ships on physical media. And thankfully many software developers have moved on from nasty "big bang" infrequent waterfall processes to being able to ship software regularly (weekly/daily/hourly) and in small increments. Now whether that means that Sonos have to ship new stuff every single week...
There are a couple of things worth remembering here:
1. Changing UI every day confuses users and should be done infrequently, but most of the changes to Sonos are probably bug fixes and performance tweaks that the average user doesn't notice. The ability to ship these as soon as they're ready is a good thing. If you build software, you want to have options.
2. There's still an element of friction in getting updates out, not least because users are involved in accepting/applying updates (the desktop app could probably auto-update on launch though), so it's not the same thing as just pushing code out to a server several times a day like major e-commerce companies do.
Userlevel 7
+22
I disagree with frequent updates to Sonos.
Apple is by far more frequent than Sonos in terms of updates....
In the case of Apple, I look at their frequent updates through a FMEA lens. Both the hacking possibilities/attraction of hackers to OSX/iOS and possible effects of hacking on my bank balances are degrees of magnitude higher than for my Sonos system. So while their updates are just as irritating, I accept that as a price to pay to hopefully stay safe. I have no such concerns with Sonos. Worst case, music will stop playing. I have simple back ups for that worst case.
As far as OSX updates that are the ones that matter to me, a Mac+Android user, UI changes happen in a scheduled manner, annually. Many of these are just as useless as the Sonos ones, but at least it is just an annual affair, usually in July.
As far as OSX updates that are the ones that matter to me, a Mac+Android user, UI changes happen in a scheduled manner, annually. Many of these are just as useless as the Sonos ones, but at least it is just an annual affair, usually in July.
Userlevel 2
I understand the need to update software. We want the new features and so on but it feels like updates happen every few days sometimes. This is not essential to the users. We can wait a couple of weeks surely for new features.
On top of the constant requests to update, if you don’t, you get limited functionality. Like other users, I just want to turn my tv on or stream live radio while I’m doing the dishes. I REALLY don’t want to wait five minutes while yet another update takes place.
Also, why can’t essential updates take place ‘in the background’? Why does the whole sound system have to stop to update?
I love Sonos for what it can do BUT this is a major gripe and inconvenience.
To those saying just turn off auto updates, that’s fine although I don’t seem to have that option. Maybe I need to update the app first? :S
On top of the constant requests to update, if you don’t, you get limited functionality. Like other users, I just want to turn my tv on or stream live radio while I’m doing the dishes. I REALLY don’t want to wait five minutes while yet another update takes place.
Also, why can’t essential updates take place ‘in the background’? Why does the whole sound system have to stop to update?
I love Sonos for what it can do BUT this is a major gripe and inconvenience.
To those saying just turn off auto updates, that’s fine although I don’t seem to have that option. Maybe I need to update the app first? :S
"updates happen every few days sometimes"?
I don't see these many updates...
I don't see these many updates...
Userlevel 7
+22
They can be frequent if you are on the Beta release program, check to see if that is your issue and use your controller to leave it and the updates will be much less frequent.
Userlevel 1
No it isn't a function of people asking for features. This is part of the plan to expand Sonos into a 'platform' so they can gather more information about users and sell it. This of course is the 'story of the day' when it comes to IPOs. Sonos was a audio hardware vendor with lame revenues. So instead of improving they're execution, they decided make money by spying on people.
No it isn't a function of people asking for features. This is part of the plan to expand Sonos into a 'platform' so they can gather more information about users and sell it. This of course is the 'story of the day' when it comes to IPOs. Sonos was a audio hardware vendor with lame revenues. So instead of improving they're execution, they decided make money by spying on people.
https://www.sonos.com/en-us/legal/privacy
Sonos respects your privacy and your rights to control your personal data. Our guiding principles are simple. We will be transparent about what data we’re collecting and why. We will protect your data as though it is sacred. And we do not and will not sell your data to third parties.
No it isn't a function of people asking for features. This is part of the plan to expand Sonos into a 'platform' so they can gather more information about users and sell it. This of course is the 'story of the day' when it comes to IPOs. Sonos was a audio hardware vendor with lame revenues. So instead of improving they're execution, they decided make money by spying on people.
Stick to the facts, folks.
Userlevel 7
+26
Let's stay on topic and if possible, curtail the wild conjecture a bit, it tends to spark a fire in each other that leads to some unpleasant discussion.
I've edited the post above a bit to remove the personal attacks. We will close this thread down if it can't be civil.
Also, as a Sonos representative, let me say that we have never, and will not sell your data, as we say in our privacy policy, linked above. That's just not something we'd do. While we have brought a few more updates than in the past, they each have had a purpose and often included new features or the backbone for those features. Like with the most recent update, that added AirPlay 2 and support for our newest product.
It's more important that if your system regularly has issues after an update, that you work with one of our technicians to investigate that. There shouldn't be any network issues as a result of a Sonos update. And if there is, we can help find out why. Feel free to give us a call on our support line if you have any trouble or questions.
I've edited the post above a bit to remove the personal attacks. We will close this thread down if it can't be civil.
Also, as a Sonos representative, let me say that we have never, and will not sell your data, as we say in our privacy policy, linked above. That's just not something we'd do. While we have brought a few more updates than in the past, they each have had a purpose and often included new features or the backbone for those features. Like with the most recent update, that added AirPlay 2 and support for our newest product.
It's more important that if your system regularly has issues after an update, that you work with one of our technicians to investigate that. There shouldn't be any network issues as a result of a Sonos update. And if there is, we can help find out why. Feel free to give us a call on our support line if you have any trouble or questions.
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