While you sit in your conference rooms and debate the 8.x app with corporate speak sentences like "They will get used to it" and "This happens every major upgrade" and "Scale-able, cross-platform modern blah blah blah.....".
One thing that has never happened before with my Sonos house happened last night. And it is important you realize the significance.
I had three couples over for drinks and I put on one of my playlists and then I turned the ipad over and placed it under my bar. I did it without thinking - it just seemed less distracting that way.
This morning i did think about it however. I had never done that before. I tend to hand off the Ipad and let guests marvel at my wonderful Sonos system. I let them pick music from the seemingly endless inventory of tunes from Google and Apple. Soon old songs are played that bring back great memories - people sing and some might even dance.
It almost always turns into a "So what is this Sonos thing?".
Last night. That did not happen.
The new interface is just confusing enough for new users that i have to give a tutorial I didn't feel like giving a tutorial.
The aesthetic is a bit too glaring and, in my opinion, not as attractive as it once was.
Your app is more than a tool. It is a showpiece. And we, the owners of Sonos dearly love to show it off. The speakers, yeah, they the Wow factor when the rich sound fills the house but when a new user touches the app and finds any song at the end of their fingertips, you can almost see the excitement in their eyes.
So while we can debate endlessly of 8.x being intuitive or not intuitive or 8.x being an evolutionary step forward or backward, one thing is a stone cold fact: six people did not fall in love with Sonos last night.
And THAT is something you should worry about.
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Your call. On the other hand, if everyone dissenting was in agreement with everyone else, why is more than one dissenter needed?:-). And what's left to discuss?
Thanks, it is here that I bow out of the conversation and this forum. As it with my postings about the v8 app I repeatedly said that one’s own viewpoint is just that. What *I* hear is what I hear, what *I* see is what I see, what *I* feel is what I feel.
If my personal opinion is odious, so be it. However I don’t need to be told by others what I should think, feel, see or hear. I have only been around these forums a few weeks to realise there are 3 individuals who feel the need to chime in on almost every thread; they effectively act as bullys who put down any dissent in the ranks. Either way this is not a chilled or friendly place to hang out. You guys are welcome to it. cheerio
Your personal opinion is fine, and acceptable, but when you try to push your personal opinion as the end all/be all, that's where it becomes odious. Why is your opinion any better than anyone else's? That's the problem with your statements, as evidenced by you hiding your iPad from your guests because YOU don't like something they've never even seen before, effectively preventing THEM from even forming an opinion. That, sir, is the definition of odious.
As for hearing, I personally can't hear the difference between FLAC and a 320 MP3 on ANY equipment. Does that mean I need to get my hearing checked? No. And I'm fine with saving the disk space by storing my CDs as 320 MP3s. That's MY choice. Not yours.
Thanks, it is here that I bow out of the conversation and this forum. As it with my postings about the v8 app I repeatedly said that one’s own viewpoint is just that. What *I* hear is what I hear, what *I* see is what I see, what *I* feel is what I feel.
If my personal opinion is odious, so be it. However I don’t need to be told by others what I should think, feel, see or hear. I have only been around these forums a few weeks to realise there are 3 individuals who feel the need to chime in on almost every thread; they effectively act as bullys who put down any dissent in the ranks. Either way this is not a chilled or friendly place to hang out. You guys are welcome to it. cheerio
Your personal opinion is fine, and acceptable, but when you try to push your personal opinion as the end all/be all, that's where it becomes odious. Why is your opinion any better than anyone else's? That's the problem with your statements, as evidenced by you hiding your iPad from your guests because YOU don't like something they've never even seen before, effectively preventing THEM from even forming an opinion. That, sir, is the definition of odious.
As for hearing, I personally can't hear the difference between FLAC and a 320 MP3 on ANY equipment. Does that mean I need to get my hearing checked? No. And I'm fine with saving the disk space by storing my CDs as 320 MP3s. That's MY choice. Not yours.
Just passing through to say you got part of your posting of me mixed up with someone else. And I agree with you — it is your choice to listen to what you want. I said that right from the off. I keep saying it. Everyone’s opinion is their own — on anything and everything. Search my few postings and most are defending those who have dared raise their voice and been put down by the sanctimonious few. I see a handful on here who see theirs as the One True Way and make sure it’s heard on every thread. It was Chicks who said my opinion was laughable and Kumar who said my opinion was odious. Not because I told them what they should be listening to, but because I said I personally prefer lossless formats. Hence my comment about bullying. And that really Really is my last posting on any subject — this really is not a nice place to hang out. Just wanted to clear my name.
Yeah, because telling people to get their ears checked and their hearing is "seriously screwed" if they can't tell the difference isn't telling people what they should think, feel, or hear, it's really the epitome of welcome and inviting . . . :8
Per usual, a person experiencing pushback on their bullying ways projects it onto others. Diversity of opinion goes both ways, sir. Only one person is lobbying for the shutdown of opinions here, and it isn't your so called "sanctimonious few".
Per usual, a person experiencing pushback on their bullying ways projects it onto others. Diversity of opinion goes both ways, sir. Only one person is lobbying for the shutdown of opinions here, and it isn't your so called "sanctimonious few".
Also for the record, I said that generalisations are odious and explained why what you said was a generalisation. I have not seen any rebuttal of that explanation yet. That could lead to some progress, with a change of views possible on either side.
And asking others to get their hearing checked is obnoxious - no two ways about that.
Also for the record, there are many free services that stream music at ridiculously low bitrates, like 48kbps. That's fine for sportscasts, but for music, the artifacts are glaringly noticeable, including to these ears. Once transparency is reached, though, by definition the artifacts are no longer apparent. Streams at 320kbps mp3, and 256kbps AAC, are transparent. They meet every definition of High Fidelity. No one can hear the difference between them and uncompressed in controlled, double-blind tests, with a few well known exceptions.
One thing that has never happened before with my Sonos house happened last night. And it is important you realize the significance.
I had three couples over for drinks and I put on one of my playlists and then I turned the ipad over and placed it under my bar. I did it without thinking - it just seemed less distracting that way.
How does one really respond to the author of this post.
Let me understand this......Sonos' developers should take note of a dire situation because of your decision to shield 6 friends from the controller update????? Seriously.
Look I hear some of the concerns about the update. I also cannot say that I truly prefer the current update. What I do know is that I find no great difficulty using it.
But these posts!!!!!!
Wow, that is rich coming from you.
Could you show me the place where I've lobbied for the shutdown of opinions? Where I've claimed the victim? Where I call others names and hurl insults and then don't accept the same in kind? Where I've attacked the poster and not what they post?
Good luck finding them.
Wow, that is rich coming from you.
Could you show me the place where I've lobbied for the shutdown of opinions? Where I've claimed the victim? Where I call others names and hurl insults and then don't accept the same in kind? Where I've attacked the poster and not what they post?
Good luck finding them.
So, have you deleted nearly every post you have made?
So that would be a no on actually pointing out those posts? Thought so. Any other problem with my posts, I suggest you take up with the mods. They will decide if I am in violation of the TOS, not you. Now if you have something to add to the conversation besides personal attacks on me, then I will be happy to engage. Sorry but I'm finding your obsession with me a little creepy, and as such, I would rather keep the thread on topic.
But these posts!!!!!!
I am in the same boat, down to the last bit. I truly don't see the big deal and maybe it is an age thing. Saying that it broke a USD 2000 system seems over the top for sure. In my opinion it adds as much as it takes away; and I don't like the annual relearning for every cosmetic change.
And if memory serves, every refresh has a similar litany of complaints; including the last one, that posters that don't like this one, are pining for. Maybe Sonos should just save money and freeze the app to what it is for the next 5 years or more. But they know their market's tastes and their business a lot better than I do, so I will put up with the annual relearning for all the other desired benefits. Fortunately, this takes less than a couple of hours even for someone that is age disadvantaged. Life has more interesting challenges.
Presumably, because the OP doesn't believe a word of it, as they can't believe that anyone could seriously not hear the difference between a pair of Sonos Play 1s and a pair of Quad Electrostatics.
So now you're saying that the Play 1s can equal any audiophile kit, as long as the kit is no bigger than a Play 1? So we're not really talking about sound quality at all, simply convenience.
No, my friend, we are not talking just convenience, we are talking application specific choice of kit. In a very large room, for example, a play 1 + Sub will not be as capable of delivering the required sound quality as more suitable kit; it may need a 5 pair + Sub, it may need something even more capable for the space. Usually, but not always that means larger speaker enclosures; and ditto for price point shifts to the right. For my desktop, placed where it is, the Sub will detract from the sound quality from a 1 pair placed flanking the speakers for near field listening even if place can be found for it under the desk quite conveniently; I have tried this and I know from actual tests. While the Quad ESLs, even if place can be found for them flanking the speakers, will not sound as good as the 1 pair while working at the desk, where near field listening is involved.
We are still talking sound quality, by the way not "simply convenience".
And regardless of what the OP believes, there are many ways of conveying it. To a person that has a 1 pair AND Quad Electrostatics, who can be assumed with reasonable certainty to know what he is talking about. Once you know a little more about him from earlier conversations here.
We are still talking sound quality, by the way not "simply convenience".
And regardless of what the OP believes, there are many ways of conveying it. To a person that has a 1 pair AND Quad Electrostatics, who can be assumed with reasonable certainty to know what he is talking about. Once you know a little more about him from earlier conversations here.
We are talking about sound quality and the application. The latter is not the same as "simply convenience".
As to hearing things that others do not, asking for the other's hearing to be checked is one of many possible responses, and less courteous than most of them.
A longer reply is probably not going to get past moderation.
While the Sonos speakers sound good for their size, I think that it would be a struggle to find many who would call the sound output "audiophile".
As for compressed vs uncompressed and hearing sound above 20kHz, I personally cannot detect a difference but there are plenty who claim they can.
And there are also plenty who spend £1,000's on audiophile USB and HDMI cables and claim they can hear or see a difference.
Obviously a very poor sample rate will sound poo, but regular streaming from Amazon through a pair of Sonos Ones is more than adequate for me to enjoy music without the hassle of powering everything on to listen through full sized speakers.
As for compressed vs uncompressed and hearing sound above 20kHz, I personally cannot detect a difference but there are plenty who claim they can.
And there are also plenty who spend £1,000's on audiophile USB and HDMI cables and claim they can hear or see a difference.
Obviously a very poor sample rate will sound poo, but regular streaming from Amazon through a pair of Sonos Ones is more than adequate for me to enjoy music without the hassle of powering everything on to listen through full sized speakers.
For their size, you'd be very hard pressed to find any speakers with better performance, actually. Objective reviews certainty confirm this. It's just the ridiculous subjective audiophile press, who jumped the shark many years ago, who refuse to review "lifestyle" speakers, as an honest review (which really never happens in their pages anymore) might roundly embarrass their advertisers.
https://www.lifewire.com/sonos-play-1-measurements-4103874
I repeat, if you folks have a problem with my posts, report me to the mods. The discussion of muscle memory and familiarity is both on topic and reasonable when it comes to UI complaints and I will continue to give my opinion until the mods tell me otherwise. If you don't like it, that is your problem. But please stop confusing disagreement with bullying or rudeness. You want bullying and rude, talk to the people asking me to shut up or telling people their hearing is screwed.
Again, until informed by the mods I am in violation of the TOS I, like all of you, will post what I like, when I like.
Again, until informed by the mods I am in violation of the TOS I, like all of you, will post what I like, when I like.
You'd think so, wouldn't you? :8
I am one that would. And as someone that has been an audiophile for ten years with exposure to most audiophile speakers out there except ESLs and the monstrosities that are more than 6 feet tall with 6 or more drive units.
As always, before we can debate this point, there has to be a working definition of the word "audiophile" and from there of the word "audiophile speaker". What is that, please? I still haven't found a good one.
Many would call a passive speaker to be one, even if it has over 20 year old tech inside, if it carries the brand name of the usual suspects and has an appropriate veneer. Many would refuse to call one that, if it does not bear such a brand name, even where it has active tech, with every driver driven by a dedicated amp, using active crossovers that allow the use of state of the art DSP. As the play 1 does.
It has to be down to the sound quality in the listening position, not to ill defined audiophile cred. But unfortunately the latter is more often relied on to label a product an "audiophile speaker".
And even in the arena of audiophilia, it is widely accepted that the satellite+Sub combination is often better able to handle the problem of bass bloat and muddied mid range than large full frequency boxes. Which is why the sound from a 1 pair + Sub sounds as good as it does. But, I hear the audiophile protest - it may be good, but it isn't audiophile. And we are then back to square one in the debate.
Or do I need to get my hearing checked?
I would. But I am now a music enthusiast, not a HiFi fan.
OK, so you're no longer "a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction" - that's entirely your choice. We all make compromises to suit our particular situation. However, you shouldn't expect people who actually do still care about the quality of sound reproduction in their home to settle for Sonos kit just on your say so - particularly when their own ears tell them something very different indeed.
As has been said in this thread and elsewhere - Sonos kit is very good for the cost and size, quite possibly the best in it's class. "Audiophile quality", though? - give us a break.
Good for you. I have to confess that in my full blown audiophile past, I had succumbed to the all too common among audiophiles syndrome of seeing music as a test signal. Or losing sight of the moon in manicuring the finger pointing at it; take your pick of descriptions.
Now, in my main listening space a 1 pair + Sub delivers much more music of the same quality as my now sold "audiophile" set ups. As my 1 pair does on my desktop.
Oops, the post is meant only for shadybee.
Now, in my main listening space a 1 pair + Sub delivers much more music of the same quality as my now sold "audiophile" set ups. As my 1 pair does on my desktop.
Oops, the post is meant only for shadybee.
And since this has gone wildly off topic, my last post on this thread, with apologies to the OP.
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