While you sit in your conference rooms and debate the 8.x app with corporate speak sentences like "They will get used to it" and "This happens every major upgrade" and "Scale-able, cross-platform modern blah blah blah.....".
One thing that has never happened before with my Sonos house happened last night. And it is important you realize the significance.
I had three couples over for drinks and I put on one of my playlists and then I turned the ipad over and placed it under my bar. I did it without thinking - it just seemed less distracting that way.
This morning i did think about it however. I had never done that before. I tend to hand off the Ipad and let guests marvel at my wonderful Sonos system. I let them pick music from the seemingly endless inventory of tunes from Google and Apple. Soon old songs are played that bring back great memories - people sing and some might even dance.
It almost always turns into a "So what is this Sonos thing?".
Last night. That did not happen.
The new interface is just confusing enough for new users that i have to give a tutorial I didn't feel like giving a tutorial.
The aesthetic is a bit too glaring and, in my opinion, not as attractive as it once was.
Your app is more than a tool. It is a showpiece. And we, the owners of Sonos dearly love to show it off. The speakers, yeah, they the Wow factor when the rich sound fills the house but when a new user touches the app and finds any song at the end of their fingertips, you can almost see the excitement in their eyes.
So while we can debate endlessly of 8.x being intuitive or not intuitive or 8.x being an evolutionary step forward or backward, one thing is a stone cold fact: six people did not fall in love with Sonos last night.
And THAT is something you should worry about.
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"As always, before we can debate this point, there has to be a working definition of the word "audiophile" and from there of the word "audiophile speaker". What is that, please? I still haven't found a good one."
What defines audiophile? it can be no more than a personal opinion, it can be relative to what other equipment a person has experienced hearing before, and may well be down to someones individual hearing profile and range.
I think "audiophile" defines equipment (and possibly surroundings) that is able to reproduce a particular frequency range faithfully and accurately without any unwanted distortion or colouring, and without compromise.
I think that "an audiophile" is a Hi-Fi enthusiast.
A person may have a Fiat Uno Turbo and think that it is a very fast car.
Another person may have a Bugatti Veyron and think that it is a very fast car.
The Bugatti owner is unlikely to think the Fiat is a very fast car.
While they do sound good for the size, I wouldn't call a pair of Sonos Ones "audiophile".
What defines audiophile? it can be no more than a personal opinion, it can be relative to what other equipment a person has experienced hearing before, and may well be down to someones individual hearing profile and range.
I think "audiophile" defines equipment (and possibly surroundings) that is able to reproduce a particular frequency range faithfully and accurately without any unwanted distortion or colouring, and without compromise.
I think that "an audiophile" is a Hi-Fi enthusiast.
A person may have a Fiat Uno Turbo and think that it is a very fast car.
Another person may have a Bugatti Veyron and think that it is a very fast car.
The Bugatti owner is unlikely to think the Fiat is a very fast car.
While they do sound good for the size, I wouldn't call a pair of Sonos Ones "audiophile".
I wouldn't. I have always been a music enthusiast, and then a HiFi enthusiast too.
But I do not need audiophile equipment to enjoy music.
Indeed, I enjoy it even on the Sonos One.
😛
But I do not need audiophile equipment to enjoy music.
Indeed, I enjoy it even on the Sonos One.
😛
It's amazing how you expect people to take this seriously, and puts serious doubts about the quality of your previous "audiophile" setup - amongst other things.
LOL.
Kumar
Critical listening, and listening to music are two different activities.
I can only assume your previous "audiophile set ups" were "audiophile" to only your ears if your Sonos Ones sound better than a decent dedicated amplifier and full size speakers.
Someone at work once came in with what he thought was a "top end designer Italian suit" that he purchased at Ciro Citterio in Oxford Street, and he was happy with it.
Out of interest, what was your previous "audiophile" set up?
I understand Specsavers offer a free hearing test. Maybe you should give them a try. No offence intended, as we all get older we lose a few kHz from the top end...
Enjoy the Sonos Ones.
:8
PS:, no need for Oop's.. If you wish to amend a post, just click on the 3 little dots down there on the bottom right of your post, and you will see an option to edit.
If you don't see the 3 little dots, while you are in Specsavers you can go for the full service and have them check your eyesight too...
😉
Critical listening, and listening to music are two different activities.
I can only assume your previous "audiophile set ups" were "audiophile" to only your ears if your Sonos Ones sound better than a decent dedicated amplifier and full size speakers.
Someone at work once came in with what he thought was a "top end designer Italian suit" that he purchased at Ciro Citterio in Oxford Street, and he was happy with it.
Out of interest, what was your previous "audiophile" set up?
I understand Specsavers offer a free hearing test. Maybe you should give them a try. No offence intended, as we all get older we lose a few kHz from the top end...
Enjoy the Sonos Ones.
:8
PS:, no need for Oop's.. If you wish to amend a post, just click on the 3 little dots down there on the bottom right of your post, and you will see an option to edit.
If you don't see the 3 little dots, while you are in Specsavers you can go for the full service and have them check your eyesight too...
😉
So I think that missing out about 6kHz of top end may well be the reason you cannot tell the difference between your previous setup and the One's, but not having heard the C7's I cannot say.
If you have a Samsung Smartphone, there is a frequency test built in you can do that checks your hearing. I am sure there are apps you can download if not.
At the end of the day, I am happy listening to music on the Sonos, mainly out of the convenience of being able to just call out a song and have it play, and the quality is very good, more than adequate. Enough so that I haven't played music through my main speakers since getting the Ones. I still wouldn't call them audiophile though.
Yes, off topic it has gone, but seeing as the previous topic appeared to be people bullying and arguing, I wouldn't feel the need to apologise too much. This should be my last post on this thread, but only through boredom of repetition.
But maybe if you had Pear Interconnects instead of Van den Hul ...
😃
If you have a Samsung Smartphone, there is a frequency test built in you can do that checks your hearing. I am sure there are apps you can download if not.
At the end of the day, I am happy listening to music on the Sonos, mainly out of the convenience of being able to just call out a song and have it play, and the quality is very good, more than adequate. Enough so that I haven't played music through my main speakers since getting the Ones. I still wouldn't call them audiophile though.
Yes, off topic it has gone, but seeing as the previous topic appeared to be people bullying and arguing, I wouldn't feel the need to apologise too much. This should be my last post on this thread, but only through boredom of repetition.
But maybe if you had Pear Interconnects instead of Van den Hul ...
😃
Meanwhile, I’ve “shown” several recent guests just how simple it is to request virtually any song or album using only their voice, from across the room, playing in excellent HiFi quality. They’ve been quite impressed, to say the least.
Well, I can’t do that. I can request (by voice) lots of less than HIFI quality streams such as from Amazon I can’t request my own library, Deezer, or Tidal or any other HIFI quality streams. Spotify, when it arrives,will also be seriously lossy/compressed too.
Always amused by those who claim to “hear” vast differences in quality between modern AAC 256K streams and uncompressed.
Always amused by those who claim to “hear” vast differences in quality between modern AAC 256K streams and uncompressed.
These people obviously have dog ears. 😃
You know the difference in the app, Michael. Your guests don't. Putting the iPad on the main music selection page functions exactly like the old apps did. Your bias ruined your good time, not Sonos.
Lol, thanks for the laugh.
Wife, now tells me what to play instead of using it.
16 year old daughter isn't updating her phone
Buddy. "Why did they do this?"
So really my predetermined bias was: "You know, i'm not as proud of the software as I once was"
The cool thing about my bias (as a customer) is it is mine.
And...why?
Because it is different.
[quote=andrewmk]
Always amused by those who claim to “hear” vast differences in quality between modern AAC 256K streams and uncompressed.
I don’t claim to be an audiophile, and I don’t claim to hear vast differences.
But what are you telling me, that you bought into Sonos but don’t care about the audio quality? Or that you genuinely believe heavily compressed music sounds the same as CD quality? If you are going to rely on compressed audio from now own, what’s the point of Sonos? Just buy half a dozen Echo Dots and plug the line out into your various speakers around the house. The quality will be the same, job done for a fraction of the cost.
You are welcome to listen to whatever you want, but don’t use the words HIFI when talking about compressed music as it makes you sound foolish.
Andrew
Does that apply to compressed lossless codecs? Or are they foolish too?
You can copy your library to Amazon if you were so inclined.
Always amused by those who claim to “hear” vast differences in quality between modern AAC 256K streams and uncompressed.
I don’t claim to be an audiophile, and I don’t claim to hear vast differences.
But what are you telling me, that you bought into Sonos but don’t care about the audio quality? Or that you genuinely believe heavily compressed music sounds the same as CD quality? If you are going to rely on compressed audio from now own, what’s the point of Sonos? Just buy half a dozen Echo Dots and plug the line out into your various speakers around the house. The quality will be the same, job done for a fraction of the cost.
You are welcome to listen to whatever you want, but don’t use the words HIFI when talking about compressed music as it makes you sound foolish.
Andrew
Does that apply to compressed lossless codecs? Or are they foolish too?
You can copy your library to Amazon if you were so inclined.
See that's where you are wrong BCM.
My bias/opinion of the update is exactly what matters.
No different than the opinion from others that sonopad is a viable alternative.
That app is something I've never heard of before today.
Word of mouth is a powerful tool. And that has been my point from the beginning.
My bias/opinion of the update is exactly what matters.
No different than the opinion from others that sonopad is a viable alternative.
That app is something I've never heard of before today.
Word of mouth is a powerful tool. And that has been my point from the beginning.
But you took it upon yourself to keep the iPad from your guests. You have no idea how they would have reacted other than what you assumed would happen, so your disappointment is solely on you. If they've never seen the app before, they have nothing to compare it to.
Not disagreeing with you there. I've been around Sonos long enough to know they will fix it. My comments are toward Michael depriving his guests from playing with the app because HE doesn't like it.
That isn’t what you wrote. You said you hI’d the iPad from your guests. By your analogy, that would be the equivalent of you taking the food off the table of the people next to you because you didn’t like what you were eating. Big difference between word-of-mouth and actual hands-on experience. See the difference? I’m the same token, that would be like a buddy saying he didn’t like a beer. But it may be to your liking because you never had it before and wanted to try it.
Don’t get me wrong I have no issues with lossy files, on a Play 3 or maybe even a 5 I probably couldn’t hear the difference. I mostly listen on my Connect Amp and there I can, that’s all. And I wouldn’t apply the term HIFI to those files as Chicks did.
I listen via QUAD ESL-63s. I’ve compared CDs, SACDs, and high bitrate compressed streams. Can’t hear a bit of difference. Neither can anyone in properly controlled DBTs, with rare, well known exceptions.
Don’t get me wrong I have no issues with lossy files, on a Play 3 or maybe even a 5 I probably couldn’t hear the difference. I mostly listen on my Connect Amp and there I can, that’s all. And I wouldn’t apply the term HIFI to those files as Chicks did.
I listen via QUAD ESL-63s. I’ve compared CDs, SACDs, and high bitrate compressed streams. Can’t hear a bit of difference. Neither can anyone in properly controlled DBTs, with rare, well known exceptions.
Truly all I can honestly say to you is that I don’t believe you. Either that or your hearing is seriously screwed.
If you can’t tell the difference between SACD on Quad speakers and naff lossy audio, then why are you even bothering with Sonos? Go get yourself two tin cans and a piece of string and knock yourself out. You do your credibility no favours with nonsense like this. Besides, I don’t consider Amazon’s service as high but rate.
Like I said, you can listen to what you like, but by no stretch of the imagination is highly compressed lossy audio ‘hifi’ It’s you that cannot hear the difference, not me.
Andrew
Show me a valid DBT then. Plenty of them over on Hydrogen Audio proving no one can hear a difference. Can you find one proving you can? Good luck...
....by no stretch of the imagination is highly compressed lossy audio ‘hifi’...
That's not what he said, though - "high bitrate compressed streams" - not the same thing at all.
If you really believe your own argument why would you even invest in ESL speakers? Especially when,as posted elsewhere , you write that two Play:1’s sound just as good as them? That is so off the mark I don’t know where to even start, but if you seriously can’t hear the difference you need your hearing checked out.
The tone of your arguments are always to tell others how it is. You can’t hear the difference, so that is how it is. You think that the v8 app is better, so that is how it is. Well, no — these are your opinions. I’m not here to convince you. So don’t insult me by saying you find it ‘laughable’ when I state my opinion as different to yours.
Andrew
Your opinion isn't based in fact. Big difference. Mp3 and AAC are well documented to become transparent at certain bitrates, above which no further improvement is noticeable. Fact. Your belief that you can "hear" differences is simply your opinion. It has no factual basis. It is the basis of all audiophilia; religion, not science.
Here are the facts, including the bitrates at which transparency is achieved for various codecs. The major services all stream at much higher bitrates than required for transparency .
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Transparency
Here are the facts, including the bitrates at which transparency is achieved for various codecs. The major services all stream at much higher bitrates than required for transparency .
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Transparency
Generalisations are said to be odious and the quoted one is as well - for instance ECM produced albums that are mastered for iTunes are delivered in 256kbps lossy formats. Do these also qualify for the "highly" classification in the quote above?
If they do, add me to those that cannot hear the difference between these and CDs/lossless rips of the same album, so I have no trouble in accepting the lossy versions as HiFi. I doubt anyone has heard differences in a DBT involving kit that is ten times or more as expensive either with these files, and I would love to read the evidence of that as opposed to speculation. On the other hand, I can easily pick these being played on my play 1, compared to, say, my JBL Flip 3, with my eyes closed. Which just says that the former speaker is more HiFi than the latter.
As someone said about the economy once - it is the speakers,...I will leave the last part unsaid.
And it is down to mastering quality; a poorly mastered CD/lossless file will not sound as good a 256kbps or even more compressed file from a well mastered version of the same performance.
The problem is of people doing comparisons with too many variables in the mix and jumping to wrong conclusions.
If you really believe your own argument why would you even invest in ESL speakers? Especially when,as posted elsewhere , you write that two Play:1’s sound just as good as them? That is so off the mark I don’t know where to even start, but if you seriously can’t hear the difference you need your hearing checked out.
And I don't know why this "get your ears checked" is such a common response, but it is. Exactly what I was told when I said something similar about a 1 pair compared to a pair of Harbeth C7s some years ago. Even after I had made a qualified conclusion.
As to the specific comparison it was made in a context of use/application. I have a play 1 pair on my desk, flanking my computer and playing music when I am at the desk. I challenge anyone to have any Quad ESL pair, even the latest one that sells for USD 10K or such, sound just as good for that use. After they have shoe horned it into the space.
Apologies for continuing the digression, but the thread subject is a beaten to death horse. Come to think of it, so is this one.
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