I've been a SONOS user for any years and have 10 zones, including a subwoofer and L/R pairs. Like others, I was a bit underwhelmed by the new functionality included in update 6.4. It certainly wasn't worth the price I've been forced to pay.
I have three 4th generation iPods that I bought as dedicated SONOS controllers. They are running ios 6.1.6, which is the latest version available. I'm pretty peeved that these controllers no longer work as SONOS controllers once I updated my system to 6.4.
SONOS should design their updates so that they don't shaft their existing users. I can understand that code will inevitably grow beyond the capability of older devices. But, I would be perfectly happy to have controller features frozen for older devices. I'd be content if I wasn't able to access all of the management functions from an older controller. But to have several perfectly good devices suddenly become totally unusable is an outrage.
There are two versions of the SONOS App available in the App Store. The current one requires ios 7, but even the older one doesn't work anymore.
I trust that SONOS will fix this and restore the lost functionality.
I notice that there are few 3rd party paid controller Apps available. SonoPhone is the only one I found that will work with ios 6.1. Are there any others? Do any users out there have any experience with this App? Will it even work with with SONOS 6.4?
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A
..meaning that there is no way to switch updates off on the CR200?
OK, will look for such a setting on my router.
But will the update notifications also be suppressed or are they delivered over some other ... 'channel'?
Don't have a working iOS device anymore.. (Phew, back on topic!)
(And to be honest: I never really liked the iOS controller anyway - I prefer the simplicity of the CR200...)
But I don't want to have my problem discussed in this thread OT, will open a new one.
OK, will look for such a setting on my router.
But will the update notifications also be suppressed or are they delivered over some other ... 'channel'?
Don't have a working iOS device anymore.. (Phew, back on topic!)
(And to be honest: I never really liked the iOS controller anyway - I prefer the simplicity of the CR200...)
But I don't want to have my problem discussed in this thread OT, will open a new one.
Userlevel 3
+2
If you have Parental Controls on your router (not everyone does), block access for everything to u*.sonos.com
And shut off auto app updates in your IOS device settings
This will work until you need to add a new player or download a new controller app onto a new computer or phone.
And shut off auto app updates in your IOS device settings
This will work until you need to add a new player or download a new controller app onto a new computer or phone.
A
Yes, but where exactly do I tell the CR200 not to check for updates?
It's just like I said: I can't find such a setting on my CR200 (on v6.4).
I think if it already tells you there is an update then there is no way to stop it or remove the prominent prompt. If you change the option to not check then you won't see prompts after the 'upgrade'.
A
Sorry, yes I'm obviously getting somewhat OT..
But are you really sure you can turn the announcements off on a CR200?
I so much wish I could turn them off, but I can't find this setting you mentioned!
Thanks in advance
Thomas
What? Whoo!
Where did you see this?
Let's hope they allow to disable this darned update notification until then.
Or else all our beloved CR100s and CR200s will become unusable, too.
Remember: the notification becomes the topmost item!
It's almost unavoidable that somebody (my mum? a party guest?) will at some point think it's a good idea to agree and update the device.
That is if you update firmware. If you keep everything the same, controllers and players, then you are fine. But that is not what people want. They want older controller versions to work with the latest firmware, and this is impossible to sustain for more than a couple releases.
They already allow you to shut off announcements. It's in the Settings menu.
A
What? Whoo!
Where did you see this?
Let's hope they allow to disable this darned update notification until then.
Or else all our beloved CR100s and CR200s will become unusable, too.
Remember: the notification becomes the topmost item!
It's almost unavoidable that somebody (my mum? a party guest?) will at some point think it's a good idea to agree and update the device.
I own zero Apple products so am certainly not defending them but some of the anti-Apple comments here are plain wrong.
You are correct. Just to give some context with the iPod 4G- it was originally released in 2010. The iPOd only has 256mb of ram btw which is why it can't run iOS 7 (which requires 512mb) nothing artificial about that - some posters have obvious biases^^^^.
In 2010 HTC Desire, Google Nexus One were released for example. These devices running Android 2.3 are still partially supported by Sonos- browse, search, play music. If Sonos wanted to support older iOS they could in one of the ways detailed above. They don't want to. But upstatemike makes a good point - what should users do if they want to buy a whole bunch of controls, some clarity from Sonos could help.
My definition of forced obsolescence is when older devices are forced to be useless not due to hardware constraints, but purely due to software manipulation. Taking Sonos as an example, my android devices are able to be used up to three times longer than my iOS devices. There is absolutely nothing about 2 year old iOS hardware that makes it technically inferior to 6 year old Android hardware, especially when it comes to running Sonos. The reason iOS devices are abandoned are purely due to artificial software limitations.
Also, is it not ironic to be speaking of Android owners not having the latest OS version on their devices in a thread started by people complaining about no support for iOS users who can't load the latest version of iOS on their devices?
Also, is it not ironic to be speaking of Android owners not having the latest OS version on their devices in a thread started by people complaining about no support for iOS users who can't load the latest version of iOS on their devices?
As far as Sonos is concerned, the way I see it (could be wrong with this bit..) is that Apple sometimes ‘unlock’ access to certain parts of the OS (could be microphone/volume button access etc.) – but to access it you need a particular IOS version. As Google is more ‘open’ anyway, this ‘extra’ access is rarely (ever?) locked down the same way and can more easily be added by Sonos.
Sonos then wants to add new functionality to the system - which means for an IOS user to take advantage of it also, they need a device that runs the later IOS version. Then, as with many things, gradually, it is only newer devices that can run the latest OS – with Google being no exception. However, with Google devices not usually needing any extra access, this means that older Google devices can be used as controllers for longer than IOS devices.
I think this is the ‘forced obsolescence’ that many often refer to here.
Where it is often confused though is the constant misinformation that ‘Apple force you to update your phone if you want the latest OS’, ‘Apple don’t support their devices for as long as XXX’ statements that are continuously espoused here. Again, contrary to the popular opinion here (and maybe it will even ‘shock’ some), Apple support, with the latest OS, their devices for quite a bit longer than Google devices for example – hardly the forced obsolescence people seem to think. They also, on occasion install the OS onto some devices but ‘lock out’ functions that the device isn’t capable of running – but they can benefit from other improvements. Ironically, use Google to see just how much longer Apple devices are supported. I’m not at all saying that Apple don’t add things constantly to get users to update but I don’t see much difference elsewhere tbh.
With Android devices (other than Nexus usually) you’re generally at the behest of the manufacturer whether you get updates or not. You may get one major update but two is very rare. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if most of the ‘forced obsolescence’ Apple-mocking comments were made from Android owners who are almost certainly not running the last Android version, possibly one release out and quite probably at least 2 major versions out. The definition of ‘obsolescence’ seems to vary – almost a “if you’re not running the latest IOS, your phone is obsolete - but my Android 5/6 phone does me just fine thanks…”
I own zero Apple products so am certainly not defending them but some of the anti-Apple comments here are plain wrong.
Just found this article funnily enough http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/09/17/software-updates-a-visual-comparison-of-support-lifetimes-for-ios-vs-nexus-devices/ About a year old but I think the length of the Apple support may surprise some.
Sonos then wants to add new functionality to the system - which means for an IOS user to take advantage of it also, they need a device that runs the later IOS version. Then, as with many things, gradually, it is only newer devices that can run the latest OS – with Google being no exception. However, with Google devices not usually needing any extra access, this means that older Google devices can be used as controllers for longer than IOS devices.
I think this is the ‘forced obsolescence’ that many often refer to here.
Where it is often confused though is the constant misinformation that ‘Apple force you to update your phone if you want the latest OS’, ‘Apple don’t support their devices for as long as XXX’ statements that are continuously espoused here. Again, contrary to the popular opinion here (and maybe it will even ‘shock’ some), Apple support, with the latest OS, their devices for quite a bit longer than Google devices for example – hardly the forced obsolescence people seem to think. They also, on occasion install the OS onto some devices but ‘lock out’ functions that the device isn’t capable of running – but they can benefit from other improvements. Ironically, use Google to see just how much longer Apple devices are supported. I’m not at all saying that Apple don’t add things constantly to get users to update but I don’t see much difference elsewhere tbh.
With Android devices (other than Nexus usually) you’re generally at the behest of the manufacturer whether you get updates or not. You may get one major update but two is very rare. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if most of the ‘forced obsolescence’ Apple-mocking comments were made from Android owners who are almost certainly not running the last Android version, possibly one release out and quite probably at least 2 major versions out. The definition of ‘obsolescence’ seems to vary – almost a “if you’re not running the latest IOS, your phone is obsolete - but my Android 5/6 phone does me just fine thanks…”
I own zero Apple products so am certainly not defending them but some of the anti-Apple comments here are plain wrong.
Just found this article funnily enough http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/09/17/software-updates-a-visual-comparison-of-support-lifetimes-for-ios-vs-nexus-devices/ About a year old but I think the length of the Apple support may surprise some.
Instead of arguing the lifecycle policies of Apple products vs. Sonos development constraints it might be useful to restate the problem. For people who want to use dedicated controllers for Sonos rather than a shared device what option do they have that will not be at risk of having features removed or becoming non-functional due to a future firmware upgrade? This is particularly important in large installations where there may be many controllers impacted and in custom installs where the support burden falls on the custom installer.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed out many times here, it is not practical to say "just don't upgrade" because that leaves no way to repair broken speakers or expand your system... under the current model you will eventually be forced to upgrade the firmware at some point even if you do not need any of the new "innovations" the upgrade provides.
I think if Sonos could explain how they plan to solve the problem of "too many dedicated controllers to discard" in larger installations in general it will also suggest a way to get around Apple's super short product lifecycles.
Unfortunately, as has been pointed out many times here, it is not practical to say "just don't upgrade" because that leaves no way to repair broken speakers or expand your system... under the current model you will eventually be forced to upgrade the firmware at some point even if you do not need any of the new "innovations" the upgrade provides.
I think if Sonos could explain how they plan to solve the problem of "too many dedicated controllers to discard" in larger installations in general it will also suggest a way to get around Apple's super short product lifecycles.
For clarity Stuart, when you talk about the 'shorter life for each operating system' for Apple devices, what do you mean?
Sonos staff have stated that older software will be rendered as unusable within a couple releases due to changes in firmware. Remember, third party apps are able to be updated, Sonos does not have that luxury. They can only keep older versions available as is, they cannot maintain the older versions in order to keep them up to date with current firmware. There is no "Sonos-lite" option; despite the misinformation above, the fact is Apple does not allow you to continually maintain and release different apps targeted for different iOS versions.
Userlevel 7
+22
I mean that Apple update their OS by major increments that require new hardware more often than their rivals. Evidently every time Apple updates its OS Sonos has to ensure that its app still works and may or may not lead to an update.
My understanding was that the alternative software works even under the newer Sonos firmware so there's no huge issue if they are updated. Just a statement that, when using 'Sonos lite', because you are using 'older' hardware, you will not be able to do x, or z would please lots and allow them to carry on controlling their systems from older hardware (albeit on a limited way)
For clarity Stuart, when you talk about the 'shorter life for each operating system' for Apple devices, what do you mean?
For clarity Stuart, when you talk about the 'shorter life for each operating system' for Apple devices, what do you mean?
Userlevel 7
+22
Sonos could make previous versions of the app available for older ios versions through the legacy download option. Users get prompted to download the last version that is supported for their device in the app store. The app will have no new features, but similar to CR200 or CR100 they could still use it to control music. Sonos needs to enable this for it to be available. Apple rolled this feature out in Sept 2013.
Sonos could also release a second version of the app for older devices, call it classic version or whatever.
I'm not critical of their decision not to do this, but there are options available, it isn't all Apple's fault.
Trouble is it isn't only the iOS app that's affected is it? The firmware in the Sonos units is often updated when the controllers are updated so you would also have to have a way of stopping people with those legacy devices from updating.
Whilst it's undeniable that what you suggest may be doable you must surely see how this would become a nightmare to maintain? Not only for Sonos but also the users - If your significant other got a swanky new phone and went ahead and updated the firmware what would you do?
For better or worse Sonos have decided to have 1 version of the Firmware and 1 version of the controller released for each controller type at any one time - this makes version control much easier but it means that every once in a while certain hardware either gets reduced functionality or at some point will cease to be able to operate a Sonos system.
I think the blame game (It's Sonos, no it's Apple) is not especially helpful in this case but it is worth noting that Apple devices DO have a shorter life for each operating system and seem to "last" roughly half as long as their rivals. Also, Sonos have never obsoleted any of their units (I think the controller may now have reduced functionality) - I think that demonstrates their commitment to their customers. Sonos would be delighted if these things didn't happen because no matter what people like me say there will be others who blame Sonos.
There really is only ONE way round it and that is to not innovate - And well, that ain't gonna happen either.
Yes, I agree - but not a popular view round here....
Userlevel 7
+17
Well at least this forum is usefull for spreading the word about alternative software that will keep old iOS controllers working.
Maybe a sticky at the top somewhere.
Maybe a sticky at the top somewhere.
Apple does give options to support older hardware.
Sonos could make previous versions of the app available for older ios versions through the legacy download option. Users get prompted to download the last version that is supported for their device in the app store. The app will have no new features, but similar to CR200 or CR100 they could still use it to control music. Sonos needs to enable this for it to be available. Apple rolled this feature out in Sept 2013.
Sonos could also release a second version of the app for older devices, call it classic version or whatever.
I'm not critical of their decision not to do this, but there are options available, it isn't all Apple's fault.
Sonos could make previous versions of the app available for older ios versions through the legacy download option. Users get prompted to download the last version that is supported for their device in the app store. The app will have no new features, but similar to CR200 or CR100 they could still use it to control music. Sonos needs to enable this for it to be available. Apple rolled this feature out in Sept 2013.
Sonos could also release a second version of the app for older devices, call it classic version or whatever.
I'm not critical of their decision not to do this, but there are options available, it isn't all Apple's fault.
They have to decide how to allocate finite R&D dollars. Continuing to throw money at a platform which is no longer supported by its manufacturer and can't support newer Sonos controller features (e.g. Trueplay) makes little commercial sense. A third party app called SonoPhone might keep you going. Alternatively a cheap SIM-less Android phone would do the job.
And shame on ALL companies and their continued lack of regard for consumers' pocketbooks and for the environment. Those of us who can put old electronic devices to good use should be rewarded not punished.
I'm afraid that's neoliberal capitalism for you. It's going to take more to change the system.
I agree Sonos should make an app to run on older devices.
And shame on ALL companies and their continued lack of regard for consumers' pocketbooks and for the environment. Those of us who can put old electronic devices to good use should be rewarded not punished.
Once again, Sonos CANNOT write an app to run on older devices. Apple does not allow it. They either write one for older devices with no new functions like lock screen controls or Trueplay, or they abandon old devices in favor of the new functionality. It's not like Sonos has a choice in this, Apple wants you to buy new devices, so they force companies to abandon old devices by only making new functions available in the latest API.
I, too, have an old iPod Touch 4th generation that I gave to my husband to use as a Sonos controller. About a month ago we got the message noting that we cannot update the controller unless we update the OS, which we all know, of course, we can't do because of Apple.
I agree Sonos should make an app to run on older devices.
And shame on ALL companies and their continued lack of regard for consumers' pocketbooks and for the environment. Those of us who can put old electronic devices to good use should be rewarded not punished.
I agree Sonos should make an app to run on older devices.
And shame on ALL companies and their continued lack of regard for consumers' pocketbooks and for the environment. Those of us who can put old electronic devices to good use should be rewarded not punished.
I also installed SonoPhone onto my iPods and it works pretty well. If you have a lot of zones within a group, there can be an appreciable lag when changing the volume before all the players settle down, but this may be entirely due to the less than perfect SONOSNET communications in my house. With only a few players within a group, the volume change response is virtually instantaneous.
It also takes longer to start up than the native SONOS App after the device goes to sleep.
But it sure beats having several devices suddenly become useless. It's a pretty good solution to a problem that shouldn't have happened.
It also takes longer to start up than the native SONOS App after the device goes to sleep.
But it sure beats having several devices suddenly become useless. It's a pretty good solution to a problem that shouldn't have happened.
After experiencing the same shock and horror after the update, I installed the SonoPhone app on my iPod and restored the functionality of my Sonos system. Here's a link to the tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvp4QinakL0
Userlevel 7
+17
I am using sonophone app on my 4th gen ipod and it works great, no setup at all, it was seamless, almost too good.....
Should be good on iphone3 as well.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sonophone/id815251931?mt=8
Should be good on iphone3 as well.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sonophone/id815251931?mt=8
Ok Means just because I'm 60 years old old age I should die .!!! Interesting.
Its ok Thanks for taking the time and replying. Have a great weekend
Come on...you are really stretching on that one.
Anyhow, you can certainly have your opinion that devices should be supported longer. I will maintain mine that Sonos does a very admirable job in maintaining support longer than most other companies and that the iPod 4th gen support is Apple's issue, not Sonos' issue.
Have a nice weekend.
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