I’ve found that (i) starting a stream on and iOS device or Mac via Apple Music and then (ii) sending that stream via Airplay to one Sonos device (in my case, the Beam in my living room), and then (iii) grouping the living room Beam with other Sonos devices in the house with the Sonos app works well.  (Once I’ve used it a bit more, I hope to be able to add “and reliably.”)

Songs that are lossless are indicated as lossless in Apple Music as they play, at 24bit/44.1Khz, and on the Sonos app the entire “group” states “Started from Airplay.”

I’m using both Airplay (for the first stream to my Beam) and Sonos (to group and play music on all other devices in the group) because when I used just Airplay to connect to all devices, the connection was unstable (and just stopped, randomly, as Airplay tends to do).  Grouping devices through Sonos seems much quicker and more stable than using Airplay to send to multiple devices.

As a further experiment, I have a Libratone Zipp (1st Gen), which was upgraded to Airplay 2.  So, for kicks, I added that device to the Airplay stream (so (i) Airplay is sending from my MacBook to the living room Beam and the Libratone Zipp, and (ii) Sonos is then grouping the Airplay stream from my Beam with Sonos speakers in a few other rooms).  Shockingly, it worked -- for a few minutes -- then the Libratone Airplay connection dropped.

Bottom line:  I think I have Apple Music lossless (24/44.1) working on Sonos devices all around the house. Apple Music is reporting that the stream is lossless, and it all sounds great.  But really, who knows? . I’ll run this all day and report back if it stops working.

I’ve also had success using this method over multiple days. However, when you tap the lossless badge on the Apple Music app on the track page it will display whatever the maximum bit depth and sampling rate is available for the particular track (if you have high res lossless enabled in Apple Music settings). This means that if a song is available on Apple Music in 24 bit, 192 kHz, for example, it will display that. Obviously that is not being transmitted to the Sonos speaker over Airplay 2 in that format so I still cannot tell what happens in that scenario — is it 16 bit, 24 bit, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, etc.? I agree it sounds phenomenal and I do believe I hear a big difference in fidelity than with the 256 AAC going with the native Sonos app for Apple Music, so I guess I should not care, but I am just really curious if I am getting CD quality or higher. Hoping for confirmation and/or official support for 24 bit, 48 kHz over Airplay 2 soon!

Thanks as I’m curious. That is what I’m doing as well. But from what I’ve read Airplay only currently goes up to 16 bit 44KHZ in theory but is currently downsampling to AAC on its own Home pod according to Apple and is also currently only playing as AAC on Airplay according to another manufacturer whatever the Apple app says.

I understand Airplay will play at 16/44 when iOS 15 is released. I prefer the direct Apple app interface but using Sonos is more stable so would be good if Apple and Sonos eventually allow 24/48 on Sonos. So currently only way to get lossless on Apple is via wired lightning connection up to 24/48 or via the camera kit adapter and USB to a suitably equipped DAC beyond 24/48. Accordingly,  lossless is not currently available on Sonos until Airplay software updated to 16/44.  Apple and Sonos will need to work togther to go beyond 16/44. Presumably Apple will look to upgrage Airplay at some point and also partner with maunfacturers as would be strange to offer content without the hardware to easily play it. Hopefully Sonos will partners at least up to 24/48. Meanwhile I will just play more of my music direct from Apple Music to DACs via USB until Sonos hopefully get on board with the market transition by the music streaming service providers. Just as Sonos wsa born out of new technology developments it will Kodak if it doesn’t adapt. 

Interesting. Thanks. I was a true believer but maybe it is all in my head... Could have sworn playing lossless on Apple Music app and then switching to Airplay to Sonos produced a fuller soundstage than native Apple Music app. This now suggests that I’m listening to the same thing if Airplay is downsampling to lossy 256 AAC right? Bummer I’m not even getting CD quality. Maybe because the source file starts as high res before the Airplay downsample it still produces a better sound compared to a file that comes off Apple’s servers as lossy to begin with? I think someone else was (passionately) making that point too. 

According to a number of articles published in the last few days Airplay to HomePod does work for lossless, if done in a certain way:

https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/09/ios-14-6-airplay-lossless-homepod/

I’m hoping that when I send via Airplay to my Beam, it’s working the same way and I’m actually getting lossless.

Me too! I know I should just be happy that it sounds amazing and no up charge from Apple for this but I just like the chase of getting the best stream possible through Sonos and convincing myself it sounds even better (as I’ve invested a ton inside and outside my home with landscape speakers to Amps and Ports and the like). So I’m fully committed to both Sonos and Apple at this point and love both companies. I just wish they’d merge already!!!

AAC is a well regarded lossy format so differences will be subtle at best. Apple always insisted on higher quality original as it was clear that bandwidth and memery would improve over time. Benefit should be Apple digital masters as recorded to be played on better quality equipment. A lot of popular music sounds awful on revealing Hi-Fi as it was recorded to sound goid on low fidelity equipment. 
 

i understand allowing Airplay to play 16/44 is a simple software tweak. Getting Apple to upgrade Airplay further and Apple Bluetooth which for me is poor quality will take time to match competition. Likewise will take time sind willing for Apple and Sonos to collaborate. But just as it was inevitable that Apple needed to react to Amazon and Spotify I think it is inevitable that Sonos will have to react at some point. 

Thanks.  Did see that but technical team at another manufacturer says Airplay only plsying AAC. Histotrically airplay only had AAC to play so was programmed to play AAC but Airplay is capable of playing 16/44 do hopefully shouldn’t take long to reprogramme the IOS software so that AirPlay plays 16/44. 

If I have a song on my hard drive ripped in 16/44.1 ALAC, and I send that song via Airplay 2 to my Airplay-enabled Denon receiver (or, for that matter, my Airplay-enabled Sonos speaker), are you suggesting that Airplay downsamples that ALAC stream to AAC?  I’ve been under the impression (for years) that Airplay was a method to stream CD-quality music losslessly.  If Airplay downsamples CD-quality files to AAC, then it’s no better than Bluetooth.

Im merely repeating another manufacturer technical team. So i ripped all my CDs onto iTunes a ALAC files and then Sonos cleverly automatically picks them up in my library and there should play at16/44 directly on Sonos. But they would only stream on Sonos via AirPlay from Apple Music on my Apple device as AAC.
 

Apple is silent about AirPlay on this Point but the software engineers at another manufacturer suggest it should be straightforward for Apple to Programme to play 16/44 on their Next  software release. They think the whole announcement was rushed for marketing event so the situation is very Dynamic so Situation changing very quickly. Apple Music only appeared for me at start of week and I see loads more content every day so whatever was doing or doing now don’t suspect will take Long either way. Sonos we know not so rapid. 

I’ve been looking at the other manufacturer’s board, and I think you’re right -- it’s annoying and disappointing that Apple Music doesn’t even stream via Airplay in CD-quality.  (I’m still trying to reconcile the many posts over the last few days that suggest you can use Airplay to get lossless Apple Music on the HomePod.)

Here’s another question:  If I have an Apple TV hooked up to a television with an attached Sonos beam, I should be able to get some lossless format (at least 16/44.1) on the Beam, right?  And if I use Sonos (not Airplay, but Sonos) to create a group with other Sonos devices, does Sonos, at least, send the lossless format to the other Sonos devices?

It is annoying but think 16/44 on AirPlay will not take long. Suspect 24/48 direct on Sonos as technology already there and a higher spec AirPlay 3 will come at some point  Apple and Sonos are about convenience not  spec  

I understand from Apple that Apple TV should play lossless at 16/48  Also understand if you have a 16/44 source direct on Sonos it will play 16/44 on other grouped devices so 16/44 soon, 24/48 at some point in future on Sonos and hi res not on Sonos anytime soon but USB to an external DAC  Not a bad result  As I now have hi res content and a hi res DAC a hi res bit perfect  Sonos port 2 with AirPlay 3 would be a theoretical nice to have that I would fall for  

I stuck with Apple Music because prefer UI over all the other streamers services and it was inevitable they would offer lossless after Amazon and Spotify  likewise I like the Sonos usesbility and it is now highly like that they will upgrade spec at some point  

So with my Apple TV connected via HDMI to a television with an attached Sonos beam, I should (assuming the track is lossless) be getting at least 16/44.1 on the Beam -- and if I use Sonos (not Airplay, but Sonos) to create a group with my other Sonos devices, shouldn't I have full house lossless audio today?

I really am not sure as not familiar with Apple TV  and  beam but as I read it that shouldwork. Apple TV does play lossless according to Apple - just need to switch it on in the Apple App then if you have a direct connection to Sonos Beam it should automatically transmit the signal to the beam at 16/48 and then the beam should be able to group with out Sonos products at 16/48 

I don't get Atmos with the Beam (it's down converted to DD 5.1), but I do have a few rooms that have Beam-based Sonos systems and when I group them all Sonos indicates they are all streaming DD 5.1 - so I seen to be getting not only full house lossless (when the source is lossless) but full house DD 5.1 (when the source is Atmos). I realize that what I've done here is to bypass Airplay (and its limitations) entirely. 

yes i think you have figured out tthe only way to play Apple lossless on Sonos currently given that not on Airplay yet, not intergrated into Sonos and no USB input on connect/port  - sorry Sonos but I’m struggling to think of a worst spec on any Hi_Fi streamer on the market than the Port. To be fair the current hopefully short term lack of  Airplay support also applies to other manufacturers and Sonos seems to be the only maunfacturer with Apple intergrated in their own App but then the lack of USB input is special to Sonos. Nope. Still can’t think os a worst specced hi-fi streamer on the market than the Port - a hi-fi streamer than is meant to connect to hi-fi but has none of the functionality of every other hi-fi streamer on the market. It seems like they completely ignored the market and competition and as demonstrated by Apple with lossless and hi-res not even a tech giant can do that susstainably

I don't think my method works for streaming lossless around the house -- what it does is stream Dolby Digital 5.1 around the house. It sounds great, particularly on what started out as Atmos content - but DD 5.1 is still lossy, so lossless tracks are still being compressed. I don't know if that's because my TV lacks eARC or some other limitation, but the Apple TV seems to send both lossless and Atmos in DD 5.1.  So, close but no cigar -- and still waiting for Apple and Sonos to fix the Sonos Apple Music app. 

We may be waiting a while if ever for Apple on Sonos App as it would require agreement and  development by both Apple and Sonos. . Other manufacturer forums are complaining why can’t they have Apple integrated when Sonos does but currently Apple preferred appraoch is to offer Apple Music over Airplay. I prefer the Apple app personally but Sonos is more stable. I understand as above Airplay can play 16/44 currently so expect that will be available on Apple Music with the next software update.  Also sounds like Airplay is capable of 24/48 so will come later and then hopefully on Sonos. I expect more Apple compatible hardware further down the line like say an Apple TV with hi res and more Dolby Atmos/Lossless hardware as only way Apple can make money out of this  but in practice USB to external DAC is fine for now and if anyone can hear a subtle difference it won’t be on Sonos.  Access to better quality recordings designed to be heard on more transparent systems is the real benefit. 

But there are no blind tests establishing that sound heard on such systems is inferior when delivered by them via the same recordings, downsampled to such formats that Sonos can play...

Didn’t say there was. I now have hi res content at no extra price and a hi res dac   Hi res content is now mainstream. HiFi streamers apart from Sonos offer hi res. That is the new technology and market reality which cannot be denied. I very much doubt that I can hear difference between bit depth and sample rates but I can hear massive differences between recordings DACS/Amps and headphone which massively increase my listening  pleasure. I appreciate not important to other people and not saying it should be. I would like to use a Sonos streamer to play my hi res content on my hi res dac but accept I can’t so I shall go elsewhere driven by the deniers of changes in technology and the market. 

Just tried Apple Music Lossless from iphone via camera connection kit and USB cable to h-Fi DAC. iphone didn’t recongise the DAC I use for speakers wihich shows sample rate but was plug and play with my headphone DAC which doesn’t display sample rates.  Not really into the lossless/hi res debate but subjectively just switching between different rates on iphone lossless did sound not dramatically but noiticeably less compressed, clearer and more natural on lossless and a little more clearer and natural on hi res. Not so noticeable that you could independently say that is a lossy, lossless or hi.res but subtle improvements particularly between lossy and lossless when switching between rates on Apple Music. So personally I would say it would be good when Apple Music lossless hopefully comes to Sonos but full hi-res would be overkill on Sonos. But worth adapter and USB cable for hi-res on hi-fi and i will also buy a portable DAC for my iphone as does sound notieably better.  

Technical team from another manufacturer whose talking to Apple now saying Apple Music lossless should be availaible on AirPlay on 24/48 as soon as it is enabled which sounds promising. Would be nice to also have integrated into Sonos as other equipment users want but Sonos app very basic compared to Apple app   So with lossless incoming on AirPlay and hi res already available via USB cable with Apple Music excellent UI and Music algorithms at no extra cost my glass is more than half Full. Sonos app integrated and hi res via WiFi would be nice to haves. More importantly as listen moreenjoying the subtle improvement in sound quality particularly between lossy and lossless. Although the difference in sound quality is small the impact on me getting into the Music is significant as the music just sounds more real and natural. 

Listening to Apple Music lossless some more on hifi via USB cable is sounding way better than Sonos connect. Just gone up a level. Cable also a lot cheaper than a port so definitely the best way to connect Apple Music to Hi-Fi until if and when Sonos comes up with a hi res port upgrade that doesn’t distort the sound. 

Does anyone know if the LINE IN signal on the Sonos Amp (latest gen) goes through ADC/DAC processing steps before it’s sent to the speakers?

My sense is yes, since you can stream it through the house and it needs to delay the local audio to sync with the rest of the network. i.e. the analog input can’t be a simple pass through to the speakers. 

But I’d love to be proven wrong as it could be a viable solution for hi-res Apple Music until support is built into the Sonos software.

I think the line in wil go through the DAC as it is an analogue line in and the only way to avoid the Sonos processing the sound is to have a digital souce in and use the digital out with fixed volume. As the Port doesn’t have a digital USB input then hi res from Apple to Sonos isn’t possible at moment. Potentially you could use a lighting/USB  to RCA adapter to play Apple lossless to the Port. If it is just delaying/buffering sound then it is not processing the sound as I understand it.

At the moment playing direct from iphone via CCK adapter and USB cable to my DAC is sounding way better than lossless CD rip files via Sonos so if you can connect direct to a DAC and avoid going via Sonos that is what i recommend. 

My feeling is will not take long for Apple to anable 24/48 on Airplay but no intergated solution anytime soon and if you want Apple Music hi res then best look elsewhere than Sonos as that is not its market.