Question

Rubbish new update, what do others think ?

  • 10 September 2016
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82 replies

Userlevel 5
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Imagine a car maker that replaced the gear shift with paddles on the steering wheel, radio volume control on the steering wheel as well as the radio, made the wipers operate automatically when it rains, turned the lights in poor light, automatic gear box therefore no clutch...

Then again options have been moved to the three dots whilst tapping the item executes a command. To get some consistency with other apps?

Imagine a car maker that made you put the ignition key in the ignition socket by the steering wheel rather than having to insert it in the trunk.
Userlevel 7
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Perfect Peter Mc, just perfect.
Some desperately need to disagree though.
User interface design is best judged by usage, not the quality and awareness of its documentation.

Imagine a car maker that decided to make the steering wheel operate in the opposite way. Clockwise turns left, anti-clockwise to the right. This change is clearly documented and advertised. All purchasers get suitable training. This is still not a good UI decision because it is not intuitive, it changes previous convention, and if you let anyone else use the car they are likely not trained and don't have the time or inclination to RTFM.
Userlevel 7
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There is a poll now to maybe collate votes in one thread.
Userlevel 5
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I am pointing out that many complaints are because of RTFM failure and not because the interface has changed. Using the new interface is objective because it requires following new instructions.Your opinion of the interface is subjective, as is any opinion. If you dislike it and have reasons why rather than "I hate it" that's fine just as i like it is fine. I'm still learning a lot how to use it and getting out of lazy habit takes a bit of work. It is not as immediately intuitive as the old way because there are more choices now. There are a few things that annoy me but the pluses far, far outweigh the minuses which, TBH, have very low relevancy to everyday use.

I am not telling anybody anything nor trying to negate valuable criticism. I am presenting my opinion which is backed up by the objective observation of complaints which seem to revolve around RTFM failure.
Nonsense. Designing a user interface and telling people how to use it does not absolve your work from subjective criticism. You can like it, I can hate it, neither of us is wrong, nor is one of us ignoring the f'n manual. Quit trying to negate legitimate, subjective criticism. Even I didn't do that with the 5.0 complainers. I told them that there is no chance of going backwards and they should instead concentrate on making 5.0 better. But I never told them their dislike isn't warranted or RTFM.
Userlevel 5
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But the affect on the queue was well spelt out and so such a danger you should have been aware of. That users unfamiliar with the system delete things the FIRST time they use it is user learning. Deleting the queue until you get used to the new way was well explained and warned about by Sonos.

Of course you, or anyone, is able to express their dislike of something but I disagree that expressing displeasure that is RTFM failure is not any manufacturers fault. I think that is objective and not subjective. Subjectivity continues to express itself until how to use the changes have been learnt.

I disagree about the communal jukebox as I doubt there are many users who only use their system in a group situation (argh! No headphone socket so i can't charge my phone whilst listening to music). With any change the first casualties always seem to be relevancy and context.

So there is nothing that can't be done in the new as was done in the old. That the single track selection was not originally in the beta is the reason why betas exist - to examine and tweak the user experience in response to feedback. That proves that Sonos listens.

As no functionality has been removed the only thing to complain about is that a different way if doing what was done has been introduced. Divorcing self from Sonos and explain to someone with no knowledge of Sonos that something is horrid, awful, disgraceful because you have to press button g instead of button b to do something does come over as somewhat trite. There are times I wonder how people cope with a new TV or washing machine or refrigerator.

Please, I make general comments rather than any specific perceived criticism of yourself which is not my intention and i hope no offnce is taken.
But we never had those problems before and we never gave a primer on how to not delete the queue out to party goers after they hang up their coats. Should we really be happy with a UI that is so unintuitive that people delete queues the first time they use it?

Am I not allowed to dislike the new interface as much as you like it? Should one not be able to politely and honestly state their displeasure? This is a purely subjective matter. Some will like it, others won't. Unlike the naysayers from the change to 5.0, I am not asking to be rolled back, I'm not asking for the absurd like having Sonos maintain two apps in the future, I'm not even asking for a user level switch between the two. I'm asking that Sonos consider that some of us like the communal juke-box UI as opposed to the one-user with headphones UI, and that incorporating some of the ideas in the beta thread would go a long way towards alleviating the gap between the two. I get it: You like it, we don't. That's OK, as long as we aren't making absurd requests, our opinion should be heard.

And by the way, there was something in the old that originally was not in the new: A single track "Play Now" function. They didn't think it necessary because the new way was better .You know who got it added back? The people who didn't like the new way of doing things. All we ask is Sonos keep an open mind about other concerns.
Userlevel 5
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That others managed to delete a queue is because they did not know how the new system works. That is not the fault of the system but the user.
Like any changes, they need getting used to.

There is nothing in the old that you can not do in the new. You only do it differently. There are more very useful things that you can do in the new. User learning curve as in anything that changes. All operating systems have gone through big changes and all OS attract the same "it's changed. It's terrible" numerous posts.

It has changed. It works differently. Once the new is learned what will be the problem - ye gods how dare Apple, I now have to press the home button rather than touch it.


Maybe behavior like this could be made optional (in settings!), so that everybody can select his/her preference:
I/0 Toggle: Direct press starts song vs direct press queues.


I wish it were so. But Sonos has never been keen on a user switchable interface. Uniformity helps with support and keeps costs low. I do like the idea of a "lock queue" that was proposed in the Beta thread.
Did you lose your queues? Of course not. Are you complaining that you did? Of course not.
It's now simply different. Just as the original interface was different.
There were things in the old i never used as there will be things in the new that I shall not use. I shall adapt to the new and not complain about what was and now isn't. IOS10 users will be out in force about the silly, stupid and ignorant changes Apple have made because it means they will have to learn a new way of doing things.

I too was happy with the defaults. It's now changed to soemthing else. So what. That's my opinion.
My beef is with those who couldn't be bothered to RTFM and blame Sonos for their inaction.


As a matter of fact, I had the exact same experience as others in here. I was entertaining and people who thought they were adding a single song to a queue jukebox style ended up deleting everyone else's selection and playing an album of songs. So yes, I've experienced a lost queue, and the warnings don't help with people who are not familiar with them. You know, like people in those "Listen out loud" and " Music Makes it Home" campaigns.

Also, I don't care if there are things I don't use in the menu. I care that the thing I don't use is the default, and is one unknowing party attendee click away from ruining the "Listen out loud" experience for me and my guests, just to satisfy the vocal fans of a UI created for one person listening on their earbuds.
Userlevel 7
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nor do I care if the queue is deleted.. You probably would if the music at a party completely, 100% depended on it and you had no other option - as the queue is still the way Sonos works despite the new changes. It's just not respected.
Userlevel 3
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Apart from all of that: "queues" and "Sonos playlists" are concepts that are bad from the start, because a queue is like an unsaved document anyway and Sonos playlists cannot be back-upped or used on other systems.

So the "smart" way of doing things would be to set up playlists on other platforms (e.g. streaming services) and only use those. Consequently I do not have ONE Sonos playlist, nor do I care if the queue is deleted (I even tend to delete it myself quite often).
Userlevel 5
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Did you lose your queues? Of course not. Are you complaining that you did? Of course not.
It's now simply different. Just as the original interface was different.
There were things in the old i never used as there will be things in the new that I shall not use. I shall adapt to the new and not complain about what was and now isn't. IOS10 users will be out in force about the silly, stupid and ignorant changes Apple have made because it means they will have to learn a new way of doing things.

I too was happy with the defaults. It's now changed to soemthing else. So what. That's my opinion.
My beef is with those who couldn't be bothered to RTFM and blame Sonos for their inaction.
Userlevel 3
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I'm not expecting them to change it back, but it was their doing, not ours. All the reading/knowing/warning/saving in the world is not going to change that fact, so yes, it's most certainly their fault.


Maybe behavior like this could be made optional (in settings!), so that everybody can select his/her preference:
I/0 Toggle: Direct press starts song vs direct press queues.
A lot of the complaints are by those who didn't read the release notes, lots of warning out changes and how the new system works. Your queue deleted? You were warned about the queue. That those people failed to read the release notes, not pay attention to the run through on screen and have never heard of the terms save/back up is somehow Sonos' fault

It has nothing to do with reading or knowing or being aware. I read the release notes. Matter of fact, I was in the beta test group. I know about the warnings. I know about saving. Doesn't change a thing: I hate the update because it fundamentally changed the way I use Sonos. They took the defaults I was happy with and changed them to a default I will never use, and even if I did there are ways of satisfying it without deleting the queue. I liked the jukebox look-and-feel of Sonos and they have now defaulted to an iTunes look-and-feel.

I'm not expecting them to change it back, but it was their doing, not ours. All the reading/knowing/warning/saving in the world is not going to change that fact, so yes, it's most certainly their fault.
Userlevel 7
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Says the one who obviously reads every set of Release Notes and EULA before ever 'upgrading'?
Although many may have done it and thought they'd give it a chance - but couldn't get used to it? Unlike most other upgrades though, a rollback isn't an option with Sonos because they know best, not you.
Userlevel 5
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A lot of the complaints are by those who didn't read the release notes, lots of warning out changes and how the new system works. Your queue deleted? You were warned about the queue. That those people failed to read the release notes, not pay attention to the run through on screen and have never heard of the terms save/back up is somehow Sonos' fault
Userlevel 7
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...which really sounds like a hyperbole to me.Your comments sound very similar to hyperbole to me. ;);)
Userlevel 3
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Finally, it's ok to like the new update but it's not ok to come on this forum and tell people to "get a life".


I was referring to e.g.

Queue Destruction! Don't update your Sonos! Select a track and get ready for the entire artist catalog of 200 songs to kill your meticulously built queue. Hopefully the skilled employees of Sonos are listening- pun intended!!! Help!!!!

...which really sounds like a hyperbole to me.
Userlevel 6
Badge +7
Jeeez. I have been here and with my Sonos equipment for quite some time now. Every new version: same story! Dozens of people pathetically demanding the old UI because of x or y.

If you do not like change, do not update. Simple as that. Apart from that, you can do everything with this version (if not more) what you could do with the old one. Maybe just a little bit differently. Since the redesign, Sonos certainly has put lots of thought in making the app better and better, easier and faster to handle your music.

If your hearts really so much depend on a certain Sonos playlist, I would recommend to a) save it and b) get a life.

Sorry if this seems rude, but if Sonos would listen to threads like this, we all would still use the interface from years ago.:P


This is a generalized view that is true. But generalizations are not always appropriate. Many persons who are here complaining about this update have generally accepted most if not all the previous ones. I have myself found persons to be not accepting of change. One time I felt that way is with the update that came with universal search. I couldn't understand why some were so bothered by it.

With this one, while in Beta - a legitimate way of collecting feedback - many of these issues were raised. Many had expressed concern about the new queue management. My feeling of those who shared views on this community more persons had issues with it than liked it. I will tell you I had a very bad reaction to it. There is that concept of intuitiveness. Many find this approach unintuitive.

Finally, it's ok to like the new update but it's not ok to come on this forum and tell people to "get a life".
All change has a benefit and a cost. In an ideal world, if analysis reveals the benefit outweighs the cost, change happens. Better still, if the benefit can also be SEEN to outweigh the cost, those affected by the change are generally happy. In the real world, the actual and perceived benefits are not always there. Organizational change comes to mind here.

In the present case, I'm sure Sonos has some very good reasons for making the changes they have. But I'm not convinced that the benefits outweigh the cost here. They gain similarity to other software, and a reduced number of taps under certain circumstances. That's about it. They lose by increasing the complexity for everyday tasks, and they lose the intuitive ease of use of their software. They also lose the support of some users, and these are generally the vocal users who are prepared to post here, and prepared to extol the joys of Sonos to others.

Do you remember the outcry when Sonos went from version 5 to version 6? It was pretty similar to this. Eventually Sonos got the message and improved the software to the point where we all want to go back to 6.3. I'm hopeful the same will happen here, and that the software will evolve so that we are substantially happy with it, and complain bitterly when version 7 appears :)

Cheers, Peter.
Userlevel 5
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Sorry if this seems rude, but if Sonos would listen to threads like this, we all would still use the interface from years ago.:P


Not the least bit rude - that's an excellent idea - you saved the best for last.
Userlevel 3
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Jeeez. I have been here and with my Sonos equipment for quite some time now. Every new version: same story! Dozens of people pathetically demanding the old UI because of x or y.

If you do not like change, do not update. Simple as that. Apart from that, you can do everything with this version (if not more) what you could do with the old one. Maybe just a little bit differently. Since the redesign, Sonos certainly has put lots of thought in making the app better and better, easier and faster to handle your music.

If your hearts really so much depend on a certain Sonos playlist, I would recommend to a) save it and b) get a life.

Sorry if this seems rude, but if Sonos would listen to threads like this, we all would still use the interface from years ago.:P
Hopefully we are not just voices blowing in the wind!

The answer my friend...