Hi @britcowboy et al,

Thank you all for your information both in this topic and the other one mentioned (which we have reopened as it was automatically closed by mistake).

Our engineers are currently investigating this with the highest priority.

We thank you for your patience while we work through this, we'll keep you updated with any news that we can share.

Thank you.

We are a Sonos dealer and have been having this same issues for several months now on multiple systems with Playbars and/or Connect Amps.

We have made every recommended network adjustment; wired the devices, set 2.4 to 20MHz, reserved IPs, separated the network and SonosNet channels, tried turning 5G off, etc. nothing has worked permanently.  What we have found is that after rebooting all Sonos devices, they work fine for about a week to 10 days, then the problem starts up again - this has been fairly consistent. Sonos support has looked at a few of the systems and saw no issues in the logs. 

This is NOT a network issue.  I have seen Corry P (Sonos staff member) acknowledge on a few different Sonos Community pages that this is a Sonos issue and I have also spoken with our Sonos rep who has acknowledged this was an issue created by a firmware update that they are treating as a high priority.  There is no ETA yet on the resolution.

Just to update on this, I have 4 CA’s which are only 6 years old so no I don’t expect them to last forever but I do expect more than 6 years of life out of them! All 4 exhibit dropout problems, I replaced as advised one of them with the newer Amp and guess what this one has been working fine for weeks!! The problem as I see it is that Sonos have issued multiple software updates that have eaten up the memory space causing dropouts! A lot of these updates are providing system enhancements which quite frankly I’m not interested in as all I want to do is stream live radio programs! As a result I have to scrap 4 CA’s which would normally work perfectly well and replace with the newer Amp’s which won’t do anymore than my 4 older CA’s for what I want.

Yikes!  What’s going on in this community…. Can confirm, I am a real person, with a real problem that is going to cost me real money and time to fix.  I had no reason to go through the effort to sign up for an account because, crucially - I had no reason to.  This system has worked flawlessly since 2018.  So here I am, adding my voice to what appears to be a handful of others, frustrated that we have a new problem occurring with strikingly similar timelines, symptoms, and frustrations.  

I just want to add my name to this issue.  I know I had initially posted elsewhere so apologies for posting here also.  I’m not usually active in these forums and I’m usually very good at resolving my own IT issues.  What I hadn’t noticed was the bloody obvious, that it is the 3 Connect:Amps with the issues and the 2 modern Amps are solid.  All running S2
 

Everyone excepts the C:Amps are not cutting edge kit but their age shouldn’t enter into the equation when the issues appear to be resulting from a firmware push.  IMHO anyway.

Andrew 

It's not paranoia to state that Sonos are aware of this issue, and aren't fixing it. I'm not saying they're deliberately breaking something for fun, but they appear to have broken something and their response it to tell people to buy new products.

It's possible that it's an issue with memory cells degrading over time, but that seems to be very coincidental that this issue started appearing for multiple people at the same time, around the same time as a firmware update that mentioned memory on connect amps… of course I don't know what changes were made, so perhaps I'm reading more into it than I should, but it seems a weird coincidence.

As I've stated, the connect amp isn't the root bridge, this was a temp configuration I tried to prove that it wasn't a network issue. Because all other speakers connected via it had no drop outs. I've now returned to my previous configuration, which a few speakers connected to ethernet (with STP configured on my network), and the connect amp connected by ethernet with it's WiFi turned off. It's NOT a network issue. I've replaced network cables, I've reserved ip addresses, it's not the issue. I don't tend to use it as a group coordinator either.

I didn't say they did it on purpose to make me upgrade, but they are indifferent about fixing it. Also I spoke to support, did diagnostics and they said the issue is the hardware. It's not a network issue, I'm a software engineer, I have a decent network with good, expensive, equipment running it, I've set up pings to check if the Sonos drops off the network over time, it never has. That's not the issue. I checked all that, as I initially suspected it to be a local issue, but I'm satisfied, both with my testing, and what Sonos has said that it's an issue with the hardware itself. Remember I've had this issue for months at this stage, I've done lots if testing.

Also I don't buy what you said about lots of people would be raising it. It took me months to raise it with support, because I didn't get round to it, and initially suspected it was an issue my end. Then anyone who raises it on the forum immediately gets told its their network, and to change Sonosnet channels and reboot it, which may fix the issue temporarily (as the RAM gets reset on reboot), and they then get their thread closed. Not to mention, it's something that may take a while to get noticed in the first place.

Look, I'm just looking for some ownership from Sonos. Issue a article about it owning it, if it's a software issue, try and fix it, if it's to do with the device being too old, then if possible release an update whth features removed so the core functionality works on this device, or issue a good replacement scheme.

Sonos do have bugs, there was that issue with the Arc which they took a long time to acknowledge and fix. This could be a similar issue, and we need to make a noise for it to get seen and for it to be fixed. Just being fobbed off with “buy a new device” without even a special discount, is imo not acceptable.

Consider the possibility that a certain part, probably a section of RAM in this case, tends to fail at a certain age. In a perfect design/manufacturing environment all units would fail at exactly the same time. But there are variables, such as production batch, operating environment, etc. that introduce variability. Large service centers become familiar with the typical failures and can often tell the customer what is wrong, once a model number is given. In many cases it is not necessary to power up the unit before making the repair and the unit will be fine when powered up. This does not necessarily mean that all units will fail, but the units that have failed, are typically for the same reason in a high percentage of cases. And the reason may change over time as parts age.

Mother Nature is never fair.

If there is an intermittent area in RAM, firmware updates are risky because the memory footprint moves around during the update. Think, changing socks while running. It is possible that a routine or two end up in the bad section of RAM or the data cache is involved. The next firmware update may result in the bad area being mapped out of daily use. Also, the failure could be intermittent. This can result in some firmware updates being successful, while others fail.

In your specific case I don’t think that we can generalize that all CONNECT:AMP’s are having your issue, but your’s might all be from the same batch. This Community is similar to a hospital. After a quick tour, even during a pandemic, it’s easy to conclude that “everyone” is sick, but if you look out the window you’ll see most people are well and going about their business as usual.

Manufacturers are reluctant to share failure data with the public because there is high risk of a misunderstanding. I’m aware of a speaker model (not a SONOS product) where there was 100% failure of new speakers and replacement parts would fail in shipment. After some research it was determined that a single person on the assembly line was not following procedures over a three day period. This is a decades old incident and speakers manufactured before and after this incident are still functional. An early news release about this incident could have crippled the company. When the public gets wind of this sort of incident, only the failures are noted.

If you pay close attention in this Community you'll notice a few cases where SONOS was aware of a production issue for a batch and out of warranty failed units were replaced. There was no indication of the batch size. It might have been only a couple dozen units.

very glad i found this thread.  

Symptoms started summer of 23.  I have one simple Connect : Amp streaming to four zones of speakers.  Main zone has stopped being ‘detectable’ and all other zones have audio drop out.  Have been pulling my hair out all week trying to get this fixed. 

For those that don’t think this is a widespread issue just because there aren’t thousands of post….the silent majority of users of this product are either 1) not noticing the issue 2) living with it 3) too busy to deal with it 4) calling the expensive AV vendor out to fix it or 5) just buying the newest product.

I prefer not to light money on fire and will await the Sonos fix since they are apparently now working on it with high priority.

Big thanks to the relentless efforts of OP.

Quick update on the S1 rollback after a week of running it. 
 

The system has been run from four different devices. Controlling the amps has been quick and easy from each device and completely glitch free. It’s been possible to control the CAs from pretty much at least three devices simultaneously (laptop and two iPhones). There hasn’t been a single occurrence of the dreaded ‘can’t find your device’ messages which previously necessitating rebooting the CAs.

Each of the amps has been run independently (one or other or both playing different music streams) as well as party mode. Music services used have been my personal library, Qobuz and Spotify. There have been no streaming hangs, gaps or jumps to the next track - all of which were depressingly common under S2. 

There has been only one system hesitation/pause on trying to go from two independent music streams to party mode where the system appeared to be confused for a moment but then sorted itself out. That’s about the only mis-step I have noticed and it falls into the category of ‘blink and you’ll miss it’. 
So for those of you who can revert to S1, I highly recommend it while Sonos tries to fix S2.

For those of you stuck with S2, I have my fingers crossed for a speedy fix as I had forgotten how much I enjoy using Sonos.

For the Establishment, please try to exercise a little more humility, compassion and patience next time. Your aggressive behaviour reduces the utility of what should be a community help resource. Sonos hosts it for everyone’s benefit, not solely for you to enjoy the sport of shooting messengers.

Same issue for me with Connect:Amp Gen2. Worked flawlessly for a number of years then last year started intermittent 5-10 second audio dropouts across any service (radio, Amazon Music, NAS library etc).

Audio continues without interruption in other grouped speakers and linked Sonos subwoofer.

Same dropout problem whether Connect:Amp is hard-wired ethernet to router or wireless via Boost.

Running S2 with some S2 only speakers.

Great thread

I’ve been encountering the exact same issue on my Connect:Amp. I did post a reply to a different thread which seemed similar but found that people, in trying to be helpful, just blamed my ‘environment’. Thing is the CA has worked perfectly for over 5 years but now it can be so bad that it cuts out more than it is playing. My ‘environment’ has not changed recently. 

Therefore the idea that a combination of hardware ageing and more resource hungry software updates makes a lot more sense. 

The CA was an expensive purchase given it is used to play audio through a couple of ceiling speakers in the kitchen. I expected it to still be working after 5 years. I would certainly not replace it with a more modern equivalent Sonos product. If I have to replace then it will not be Sonos. Perhaps more alarmingly for Sonos is that it is the first erosion of the Sonos ecosystem that I had, like many, bought into over the past 5 years.  In fact the CA was my first Sonos product. 

I will continue to watch for developments. I will also log another support call. I had done this but got fobbed off with the usual ‘turn it off and turn it back on again’ suggestions involving a reboot/reset of the Sonos and/or network devices (router, AP, switch) 

Andy 

My Sonos gear has outlasted two “other brand” AVR systems.

My old non-computerized audio stuff from the 80s is still in service, now with the grandson.

I recall when the S1/S2 split occurred that Sonos mentioned they would do their best to keep S1 secure with updates, but they (perhaps more importantly for some users) stated that they would also reflect the changes to the existing music services within the S1 App and try to keep those running for as long as possible, but that there would be no new features/services etc.

My thoughts are that not upgrading may not only risk network security matters, but also some music services may stop working if an update is not applied. I assume aswell that Sonos support would not be available for those running older software/firmware and after several updates are missed, there’s ‘sometimes’ no option to update a system without the help of Support Staff if a system has fallen too far out of date. 

So stopping receiving any updates may ‘for some users’ also quickly cause problems. My own preference is to continue receiving updates for my S1 system and to receive the Support that Sonos provides.

I would not ever suspect Sonos of doing anything like this deliberately, that’s bordering on paranoia. The following is certainly far more likely the issue here…

Particularly if the device referred to here is an early/older Connect:Amp (gen1 or 2), then I would suspect that over the years the Connect:Amp memory modules are simply incurring more and more bad cells, which the OS is likely marking as ‘unusable’ and the device is perhaps slowly running out of steam… these things do not last forever.

If the Connect:Amp is acting as the root-bridge for a SonosNet network then, if practicable, swap it out for a newer more-modern product and maybe try not to use it as a group co-ordinator. Remove any unnecessary services, playlists, favourites etc. and see if that might improves things. It maybe worth replacing any network cables too (just in case).

There are a lot of threads on this though. Search for connect amp drop outs. Most OPs just get told its an issue with the environment and the topic gets closed. I don't think a lot of people have connected the dots, I think this is a bigger issue than people realise. Not to mention it's a drop out of a few seconds that people may not always notice, or think to raise. I had it for months before I spoke to support, and even longer still before I posted on here about it.

I don't dispute anything except the accusation that Sonos is purposefully sabotaging older devices in order to force you to upgrade.  It's patently absurd, especially when the average lifespan of solid stare memory is a far more likely reason.

FYI I've tried system restarts, reserving ips, having the CA being on WiFi and off WiFi (it's always connected to ethernet) I've tried having different devices as root bridge, I've changed sonosnet channel, I've reterminated the speaker connection. I've gone through Sonos diagnosis on the phone, sending diagnosis information to them. They told me it was a memory issue and the only solution is to buy an Amp

Good Morning All,

I registered this morning to throw my hat into the “connect AMP dropout” pile. My symptoms are similar though I’ve yet to run the traps with Sonos support to find out why. I’ve got one Connect Amp on my system powering two hardwired landscape speakers.

The summer 2023 timeline sounds about right.

Joined the community to add another customer to the “was working perfectly until summer 23 and having to face reality of unnecessary and expensive upgrade.”

Hosted a large holiday party and guests kept asking me why the music kept coming on and off.  :( 

To be fair to Sonos, if they made a mistake, it is that of declaring Connect Amp that is a design more than a decade old, to be S2 compatible.

Yes. I’m aware that this doesn’t work for those with S2 only devices but I’m providing the updates to 

1. keep this front of mind and
2. show users who can revert to S1 that there is an immediate solution to hand and
3. attempt to prove it is a software/firmware issue

Moderator Note: Modified in accordance with the Community Code of Conduct.

I'm not asking for a commit diff, just a basic update like, have the developers managed to recreate internally, do they need any input from us on this? And if they have, what's the prognosis for a fix. I'm not asking for source code here, presumably you have some system for tracking issues internally, like jira, just an update would be good. I'm a senior software developer, and while I have no idea on the Sonos firmware, I am quite good at debugging and making assumptions on what's likely going on.. Which leads me on to..

My latest theory is that it's a memory leak issue. Because I was having increasingly bad drop outs, to an extent where it just wasn't listenable at all, but a hard reboot later, and the drop outs stop (at least for a bit), they'll definately come back, as I've done this before, but I'm thinking a workaround for now is to put a smart plug on it and reboot it every day, not ideal, but as a temporary workaround, fine. But that should help your devs go in the right direction, as that is a very clear sign there's a memory leak that's been introduced, and probably all your devices are affected, but because of their larger memory spec aren't showing the issue as much.

Same issue here, 4 connect amps hardwired, went through all the trouble shooting and was told that my hardware is at the end of its cycle and I should upgrade lol

so before I buy 4 new amps with their measly 15% discount…do I really want to dump more money into a company that burns their own products with no fix in sight? They rendered the hardware useless with the upgrade without telling you…that’s liable. 
Perhaps its worth a class action lawsuit?

I wish it were as complicated as that, when it was really two simple things 1) The powers that be are cheap, and 2) Nobody high up wants to make a decision, so the void is filled by idiot sycophants.

As to your last point, like Sonos, a significant portion of my work is embedded, so we are always concerned about efficiency.  As far as the cost of processing and storage, like any other industry, as resources expand, so does the usage of those resources.  Cheaper/faster processing and storage aren’t the direct cause of so called “bloat”, and it’s really more the tools used rather than laziness of the developers.  Modern languages use more resources, that’s a fact.  The debugging tools available today are 100x what I was doing with inserted printf() statements back in college, and the industry is better for it.  But those things take up space and/or processor cycles. 

As to Sonos’ sound quality?  I watched Mission Impossible: Dead Reconning on an Arc/surrounds/Sub system last night, and not only was it far better sound than my Playbar/surrounds/Sub from a decade ago, it was better than my receiver/satellites/sub from 5 years ago.  Part of that was the mix and addition of Atmos, but regardless, it was outstanding.  I also prefer a pair of Ones and a Sub to my pair of Play:5’s and Sub from a decade ago.  YMMV.