Sonos is forcing people to buy new hardware as they've broken the Connect:Amp and they refuse to fix it

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A
Userlevel 4
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Updating the forum on my S1 rollback; the amps have been totally stable for 135 days of continuous power up.

But I now see that the option to roll back to S1 has been removed by Sonos. 
 

So let’s summarise events.
1 Sonos knew last year that they had created a problem with a firmware update.
2 They promised a fix ASAP (which still hasn’t been delivered).

3 They subsequently removed the only interim solution available to users in the meantime (the ability to roll devices back to S1). 
 

What a bunch of jokers. Shame on you Sonos, Shame. 

Airgetlam

Just be sure to not purchase any ‘smart’ technology, that relies on memory modules to operate, as they go bad. Stick with old fashioned tech. 

Bruce
S

Adding my name to the pile of folks who are having this exact issue.

I don’t think an S1 downgrade is viable for me, because my system has a handful of Roams in it, and I don’t want to lose the ability to group them together with my Amp.

A
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

As @britcowboy says, the discount on a move from connect amp (gen 2) to Amp is only 15%. After that discount, a pair of Amps comes in at $1,500.
 

If my rollback to S1 doesn’t stay the course then a pair of WiiM Amps at $750 looks like a very attractive alternative to the pair of Sonos Amps. 

G
Userlevel 2
Badge

Add me to the list also.  This is a software issue, IMO.  OP has it dialed here:

 

“So it seems to me that Sonos have released a firmware update that the connect amp cannot handle, and rather than take responsibility for it, they're just fobbing people off telling them to buy expensive new hardware to solve the problem, not even with any substantial discount. It's unacceptable. This connect amp worked perfectly before June.”

A
Userlevel 4
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I don’t think that Sonos is deliberately setting out to sabotage devices but the careless coding of new firmware updates is having the same effect. 
 

You have not a shred of evidence for this assertion.  The facts simply do not support it.  In particular, the tiny number of users who have supported this claim.  On the very rare occasions that an update has introduce a bug, even one affecting a tiny proportion of users, there have been dozens, even hundreds, of users posting within days.

I have more evidence than you do for your assertion. The 15.8 update which killed the soundbar interaction with certain Samsung TVs took a long time to be taken seriously and had users like @jgatie, Mr ‘Sigh’ himself, weighing in and claiming that it couldn’t possibly be a software update issue right about the time that Sonos admitted that there was a problem caused by the software update. And even then, certain forum members queried this in case it was a ‘misunderstanding’. In the soundbar case, there weren’t ‘dozens, even hundreds, of users posting within days’ but one persistent user with a few others chiming in.

I find it strange that there are so many on this forum who rush to deny that there could possibly be a mistake in a software update when it’s proven to be a cause of failure. Invariably, it’s the forum members with extremely high post counts. It’s almost as if there’s some sort of Stockholm Syndrome at work.

 

 

A
Userlevel 5
Badge +4

Sorry for another question. It looks like Sonos has removed the ability to downgrade to S1. Is that correct?

Not quite, it is not currently in the new app, but it is believed that it will be in one of the pending upgrades in which missing functionality is to be reinstated.  

A
Userlevel 5
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I am one of the mini users, running into problems with the connect amps. I have seven of them and they have all been dropping. Question— If you go back to S1 firmware, what is to keep the device from upgrading back to S2 the next time Sonos rolls out an update?    Novice question but wasn’t sure. Thanks. 

S2 is an ‘opt-in’ option only, it never was an auto upgrade and there is nothing to suggest that this will change. 

melvimbe

People here keep saying something that I don’t agree with - Sonos sells networked computers that happen to make music. I however see Sonos as making home audio kit using computers and many other things and I have no desire to have to deal with one more piece of equipment with computers inside that has to be babied through upgrades that do not add meaningful value to me in the domain of listening to music. For instance , I don’t have to do this with my fridge, or my car. Both contain computers. It is enough to have to do this with my phone!

 

Your fridge and car may have computers in them, but they are not networked.  That’s an important part of the equation that you left out.  Even if these other devices do technically connect to your network, they are not currently required to be in communication with other fridges/cars with the capability of the system only being as strong as your weakest link.

But that is the economic growth paradigm across almost every country now - what will happen do you think to the global economy if all of us used all we have to the end of service life? That will make the planet a better place to live for all, but who really looks at that lifesyle as one to adopt? Except the likes of Warren Buffett perhaps?!

 

That’s an over simplistic view of the economy and how economy helps people live better lives.  Yes, there would be less waste, but devices would have to cost significantly more since sales volumes would obviously drop.   In addition to fewer sales, you would have less competition, and thus less drive for innovating new and better products.  Of course, that also means fewer jobs are available, particularly in the middle class, so we would have much more income inequality to contend with, bringing in a lot more problems.

People like to complain about  the ‘engineered to fail’  manufacturing that happens these days, but fail to recognize that as a whole, people have had a lot more goods and services available after this transition than before, and generally live better lives.

 

Sonos can’t buck this universal behaviour but nothing stops us as individuals from refusing their Kool-Aid. Especially when it ends up leaving us with a degraded experience from what we were used to from their kit that we bought in the past. Just because 2 follows 1 does not mean S2 is better than S1.

 

If all you have is old kit, then yes, S1 is a better fit for operating that equipment.  Obviously, S2 is the only option for new kit.  As far as individuals keeping their own equipment alive as long as possible, if your happy with it, that’s the best option for you.  Just like it’s better to save your money rather than spend it...microeconomics.  However, you do (or should) want everyone else to keep buying Sonos gear.  Not only does it mean that new features will be available should you ever want them, but those new sales are paying for the support of your old equipment.  Just like you want other people to spend money to keep the economy flowing...macroeconomics.

Danny
J
Userlevel 1
Badge +2

Haven’t looked before (and I hadn’t been logging in here of late) but I see the Speakers forum is littered with people with older kit who have exactly the same issue. (Systems fine for years until recently….  No interference /other changes…. Gone through various hoops to attempt to resolve….)

J

If there were a generic problem with the CA in S2 I think it would have generated  a lot more posts than there are on that other thread, mostly from a handful of users.

Comments on such issues from front line support staff count for nothing 

 

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

I would not ever suspect Sonos of doing anything like this deliberately, that’s bordering on paranoia. The following is certainly far more likely the issue here…

Particularly if the device referred to here is an early/older Connect:Amp (gen1 or 2), then I would suspect that over the years the Connect:Amp memory modules are simply incurring more and more bad cells, which the OS is likely marking as ‘unusable’ and the device is perhaps slowly running out of steam… these things do not last forever.

If the Connect:Amp is acting as the root-bridge for a SonosNet network then, if practicable, swap it out for a newer more-modern product and maybe try not to use it as a group co-ordinator. Remove any unnecessary services, playlists, favourites etc. and see if that might improves things. It maybe worth replacing any network cables too (just in case).

It's not paranoia to state that Sonos are aware of this issue, and aren't fixing it. I'm not saying they're deliberately breaking something for fun, but they appear to have broken something and their response it to tell people to buy new products.

 

It's possible that it's an issue with memory cells degrading over time, but that seems to be very coincidental that this issue started appearing for multiple people at the same time, around the same time as a firmware update that mentioned memory on connect amps… of course I don't know what changes were made, so perhaps I'm reading more into it than I should, but it seems a weird coincidence.

 

As I've stated, the connect amp isn't the root bridge, this was a temp configuration I tried to prove that it wasn't a network issue. Because all other speakers connected via it had no drop outs. I've now returned to my previous configuration, which a few speakers connected to ethernet (with STP configured on my network), and the connect amp connected by ethernet with it's WiFi turned off. It's NOT a network issue. I've replaced network cables, I've reserved ip addresses, it's not the issue. I don't tend to use it as a group coordinator either.

 

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

If there were a generic problem with the CA in S2 I think it would have generated  a lot more posts than there are on that other thread, mostly from a handful of users.

Comments on such issues from front line support staff count for nothing 

 

There are a lot of threads on this though. Search for connect amp drop outs. Most OPs just get told its an issue with the environment and the topic gets closed. I don't think a lot of people have connected the dots, I think this is a bigger issue than people realise. Not to mention it's a drop out of a few seconds that people may not always notice, or think to raise. I had it for months before I spoke to support, and even longer still before I posted on here about it.

A
Userlevel 4
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60 hours in and still rocking the S1 rollback. Utterly stable and responsive. No dropouts and no software or hardware glitches. It’s how Sonos used to be and should still be.

Ken_Griffiths

I did already highlight the possibility of a ram module ‘perhaps’ being an issue in my very first post here (as a bit of a guess) - as I said these things may not last forever. I also suggested things like removing unnecessary services, playlists etc. as it might be something along those lines… here is a chart that shows some (not all) Sonos products and their memory limitations…

I suspect the Connect:Amp in this case may have some bad memory areas and it’s just not coping like the other Connect:Amps or any other devices in the same system setup. I can’t prove these things, of course, but it just looks quite likely to me. if Sonos Support say it’s perhaps time to upgrade, then personally speaking I would take that onboard. These decisions though, are for each one of us to consider. My personal policy for such items is that anything over 5 years old electrical wise, normally gets moved on/replaced.

B
Userlevel 4
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Seen people are reporting this issue on twitter too…

 

 

Stanley_4
Userlevel 7
Badge +22

If you are near the limit on bad memory and update the firmware it may be enough to push you over the limit and start causing problems.

I do wish we had more access to system internals, being able to see more of what is going on inside would allow us to have actual answers rather then having to make educated guesses.

K

@Andrew-s : my comments

  1. Home audio is settled tech and does not need cutting edge. Streamed audio from the net was the last innovation here, and even that is now settled tech. As is wireless grouped play.
  2. Spending GBP 2000 to deal with a Sonos blunder is not a good idea that will suit everyone.
  3. Sonos has accepted their mistake and have said they are working to fix this on highest priority. However that does not tell you if and when you may expect the fix.
  4. Your immediate fix is to roll those Connect Amps back to S1. Yes, that means that they will no longer play as a part of the S2 system, and I suspect that your modern amps cannot be rolled back to S1. If they could, that would be a complete fix for you if your modern amps are not being used for TV audio. This fix will work better for some users than others, based on the mix of S1/S2 units in their systems.
  5. As a minimum Sonos should allow you to roll back S2 to before the version that broke your Connect Amps. I have no idea if they will enable this solution; you can roll back to S1 but you cannot roll back within S2 unfortunately. The issue with this solution will be a loss of any further S2 enhancements but IMO these will be of dubious value. The bigger problem is accidentally upgrading a rolled back S2 system sometime in the future and breaking the Connect Amps again.
B
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Hi @britcowboy et al,

Thank you all for your information both in this topic and the other one mentioned (which we have reopened as it was automatically closed by mistake).

Our engineers are currently investigating this with the highest priority.

We thank you for your patience while we work through this, we'll keep you updated with any news that we can share.

Thank you.

Any update?

I've just recorded a clip (which I'll try to upload later) showing how annoying the issue can be, listening to the radio, and in a 2 minute segment, probably around 30-45 secs was silence, so I'm missing half the programme. It honestly drives me crazy

B
Userlevel 4
Badge +5

We have a Sonos Connect connected to a Denon Amp via optical connection. The Denon is connected to hard wired speakers throughout the house.   It worked wonderfully for six years until about six months ago.  We also have the cutting out problem. Sometimes we get several hours without a drop, other times it drops every few minutes.    I actually installed a new router several months ago after being led to believe it was a network problem.  That did not solve  the problem.  I have the Sonos on a dedicated wireless port.  I have tried using different channels on the advice of Sonos support.  Nothing has solved the problem.   I agree that this is a problem caused by the Sonos hardware upgrades.  Can anyone tell me how can I revert my Connect back to pre upgrade when it worked without any problems?  We are retired and on a fixed income and I really do not want to throw good money after bad.

Thank you!

I’ve reverted my two connect amps back to S1. The procedure for doing this is documented here

Although it seems simple, it isn’t foolproof and it took a few goes to re-establish the amps on the network via the S1 app (it took some time for my iPhone to establish the necessary wifi connection to the connect amps).

It’s early days (only been a few hours!) but so far, so good.

A word of caution - you’ll lose all settings associated with your account such as streaming services and music library paths. These will all need to be re-established again.

And once you’ve reverted to S1, you’ll have to tell all the users in your house to avoid the constant Sonos reminder to upgrade to S2 (there’s no way to remove this reminder if you only have S2 compatible devices in your network)

Happy for you if it fixes it for you, but imo this isn't the solution. I have 7 Sonos devices, all on S2, and don't want the rest of the network hobbled because of this device, plus I did have plans to buy an Arc this year, which won't work on S1, although I'm not in a rush to buy it until this issue is resolved.

K

In defence of those dismissing the issue: it is based on their extensive experience that over 99% of issues are down to the network, so they tend to miss the less than 1% when that comes along.

In general: I don't expect to see a fix to this other than what has been seen to reliably work, a rollback to S1. And I don't think Sonos themselves expected to see pre S2 hardware survive for so long, by underestimating the build quality of their own hardware! If they had they would have not allowed old kit to move to S2 in 2020. 

Speaking for myself, I have never seen Sonos as anything more than quality amps/speakers and have never expected S2 or such to better their sound quality beyond what made me decide to buy them. The decision to stay on S1 was a no brainer, therefore. I did not buy Sonos thinking it is a networked computer that also happens to play music. I just wanted good sounding kit that did what my legacy HiFi kit could not do - play music from the internet. And that I got from Sonos via S1 and continue to do so.

K


I can understand that but it doesn’t give them the right to be so rude along with their dismissiveness. Some manners would be nice and if they don’t have anything nice to say, they shouldn’t say it at all. 

Oh I agree fully. But this is a sorry aspect of the internet that is not limited to this forum. Ignoring all such is what I found to work best, after some notable encounters here. And you will never find Sonos Staff to be obnoxious.

A
Userlevel 4
Badge +2

And here’s another one

https://en.community.sonos.com/components-and-architectural-228999/connect-keeps-dropping-audio-disappears-from-app-6886389?tid=6886389&fid=228999

melvimbe

I suspect that the issue doesn’t impact all Connect:Amps in every situation. It could very well be that a particular batch/run of Connect:Amps has memory that isn’t holding up as well as others.  Or perhaps when the Connect:Amp is in a larger system, or playing a stream with certain characteristics, it has these issues..  This would explain why we are not seeing the volume of complaints you’d expect if every Connect:Amp in the wild was impacted, and why the issue was not discovered in testing prior to release.

It should be mentioned that dropout are a symptom of quite a lot of different issues.  The most common issue we see around here is network setup.  So that’s why people tend to address that potential issue first.  Also, you can’t assume that anyone who has a Connect:Amp and drop out issues has this hardware issue.

Regardless of any of that, if Sonos support is saying the hardware can’t handle the software they provided,  I would be looking to get something from Sonos as a replacement.  I believe you can get a 30% discount on upgrade even if you’re not experiencing issues with your legacy equipment.  I don’t know if asking for a full replacement, or better discount, is realistic considering the device is out of warranty, and you’ve gotten years of service out of it already.  Then again, I understand why people don’t want to pay anything to upgrade a device they were perfectly happy with.

 

Danny
A
Userlevel 1

Hi,

We have been a SONOS dealer for years and have sold hundreds of setups each year.

Count me in on tracking this issue. Since last summer we have had multiple clients reporting audio interruptions. This has been affecting multiple different devices across multiple different setups we have sold. The most common device we’ve witnessed having this issue is the Connect Amp. Although we have also seen similar issues with the new Amp as well.

 

SONOS has been a reliable product for years, I hope to see this resolved!

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