Does anyone see the value in adding a SONOS SUB to a stereo pair of GEN 2 PLAY: 5's?
I've been told that the DSP / crossover functionality of adding the sub to this set would lighten the low end load of the PLAY: 5's, allowing them to more powerfully and clearly produce the mids and highs.
My specific questions:
1. Are there really high and mid frequency benefits to be gained from allowing the sub to handle the low end? Or would the sub just handle the low end, while the highs and mids on the PLAY: 5's sound exactly as they did without the SUB?
2. The pair of PLAY: 5's already deliver substantial bass, so are there even more substantial / noticeable gains to be had from adding the SUB? Or do 2 PLAY: 5's roughly equal the low end output of 1 SUB?
I consider myself a very lightweight audiophile, so I would love to gain more clarity and power if adding the SUB can achieve this, but I do not want to waste the money, if the stereo pair can provide roughly the same clarity and high / mid range power as it already does, while also handling similar low end to the sub?
Many thanks in advance to anyone, who may have input.
Best,
Patrick
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Hi everyone,
I am fortunate enough (spent a lot of money though) to have both the play 5’s and a sub in the same room as the soundbar, two play ones and a (second) sub. That means that i have two setups. One for music and one for watching movies.
The difference in sound between the setups is significant and serves their different purpose well.
I als fiddled around a lot with the EQ. Whereas trueplay made a huge difference in my 5.1 setup, it did very little with the play 5’s. In fact the sound got (much) worse. It was flat and all base had gone. I then tried a lot of settings and found the following setting works best for me. Rich in sound and detail, while not too much bass.
I use loudness on, bass and treble plus 1, trueplay off, and the sub at -8, so turned down a lot. This makes for a rich immersive sound. F
Thought I just share this with you. Maybe you can try.
I think what your and my experience shows is how important different room conditions are, and how systems like trueplay can help depending on the circumstances.
I have found that a neutral eq setting with loudness off is best. This again will be room dependent and also likely also dependent on auditory neural processing based preferences, aka “taste” 
One other thing with respect to speaker positioning. Before I added the sub, my 2 play5s generated an noticeable low frequency resonance (obviously a characteristic of my room). After adding the sub, the resonance no longer occurs even though the bass range has been extended. I put this down to the offending resonant frequencies now being generated predominantly from a more favourable location nearer the floor. Another, albeit room dependant and unforeseen, benefit of adding the sub.
finally I also have a play bar and two Sonos ones in another room. With that setup, like you I found trueplay to make an audible improvement. In my case evening out excessive boomy resonance.
Really interesting how the ear works. I really thought that I had found the perfect setting for me. (See above).
but somehow during listening to some songs I couldn’t help but notice there was room for improvement. Sometimes the bass was muffled and turning down the bass made the music less involving. I therefore started from zero. Now, for a week or so, I think I nailed it. My settings:
trueplay off
loudness off
sub neutral (0)
bass 2
treble 4
I had to convince to let go off trueplay and loudness. I tried all kind of settings just to keep them ‘in’ as you might have read. But bottomline is, they sound so much better without them, as long as you compensate a little depending on your room characteristics and your taste of course.
I believe the these are the settings for me. For the first time I don’t feel the urge to change anything. Enjoy!
Whew! I was researching the Sonos Stereo Play 5’s paired with the sub and came upon this thread and I just got this exact combination.I am currently recovering from a medical procedure(I’m fine) and am not able to set it up,but looking at the boxes is really giving me the itch to dig in.
To be honest,I was a very serious audio hobbyist for decades and have had numerous systems over the years.I had 2 sub/stereo speaker pairings and found the sub set up extremely room/placement. dependent….It was very hard to get clean mids and the blend was very difficult.
So,having sold my stuff a few years ago,I come to this Sonos set up and am pretty enthralled to give it a “modern go”!
To be honest I am anxious over all of this,because I am an old world audio guy.This new high tech stuff is a bit intimidating,but I know I can ultimately get a handle on it…..I know Sonos has support and have always worked things out in the past….We’ll see….Ha!
Just some anxiety ridden bloviating on my part...Forgive me.
Many thanks, Rune!
I greatly appreciate you joining the forum in order to chime in!
It's good to hear that you do indeed notice the difference as I feared the low end frequency response of the gen 2 PLAY: 5's might be "close enough" to that of the SUB.
Since you've had hands on experience, my next question would be how did you calibrate the speakers? Did you do TRUEPLAY, or did you tune them yourself? The EQ with SUB added seems a bit confusing since it looks like you can adjust bass for the stereo pair and the SUB on separate faders in the SONOS app. Since adding the SUB automatically sets up the low end frequency crossover, the fact that there are 2 different BASS adjustment faders could be potentially confusing.
Did you mess with the EQ at all?
Thanks again for you reply!
Patrick
I greatly appreciate you joining the forum in order to chime in!
It's good to hear that you do indeed notice the difference as I feared the low end frequency response of the gen 2 PLAY: 5's might be "close enough" to that of the SUB.
Since you've had hands on experience, my next question would be how did you calibrate the speakers? Did you do TRUEPLAY, or did you tune them yourself? The EQ with SUB added seems a bit confusing since it looks like you can adjust bass for the stereo pair and the SUB on separate faders in the SONOS app. Since adding the SUB automatically sets up the low end frequency crossover, the fact that there are 2 different BASS adjustment faders could be potentially confusing.
Did you mess with the EQ at all?
Thanks again for you reply!
Patrick
I currently rock this exact setup in my living room. Let me start out by saying it sounds amazing!
Welcome to the community Rune and Patrick! Thanks for joining and helping out. Just adding a little confirmation as well, the SUB will free up some of the PLAY:5's power to handle more in the highs and mids. If you're interested in testing it out, we offer a 45 day money back guaranty for all units purchased through our shop directly. You can pick a SUB up here and give it a test drive at home.
Thank you, Ryan! Also good to know that addition of sub should benefit all frequency ranges. I'm looking forward to setting one up.
Best, and thanks again.
Patrick
My point is only that compared to any other sonos stereo pair the SUB affects/improves the sound quality of the other speakers the least.
SUB is great for MOST sonos paired speakers-but $749 for adding "wider, not directional bass"?!? Come on lol
SUB is great for MOST sonos paired speakers-but $749 for adding "wider, not directional bass"?!? Come on lol
I feel that I have finally created an SONOS setup that is worthy of a junior audiophile. So that makes the addition of the SUB very much worth it for me. It didn't just improve the low end, it improved everything.
Useful report, thank you! I am still looking for a good comparison between a 5 pair+Sub as you have in place, and a 1pair + Sub; I suspect that with bass duties handed over to the Sub in both cases, there will be little difference to be heard.
I have done enough of the audiophile stuff in my life, and based now on my 1 pair + Sub experience, I can say that your 5 pair + Sub set up goes a lot beyond junior audiophile set ups, in sound quality....
You can, if you choose, do the blind testing to come to your conclusion about the above assertion; or, forget about these trifles and enjoy the music from either source:-).
One day, I will take my pair of PLAY: 1's out of my bedroom and pair them to the SUB for a taste test. I would imagine that the 5's would at least be louder with more mids at the same volume level as the 1's.
I'll do it soon and let you know how it sounds to my ear. I do this in a large room, so my guess is that the 1's will drown just a bit compared to the 5's as well.
My bedroom is not so big, and my PLAY: 1 pair sounds great in there. I would definitely not want a SUB in my bedroom though. : ) Our teeth would rattle!
At the end of the day, it really is just about the music--whether it's on an iPod, a car radio or some ridiculously expensive audiophile setup. Still, my living room setup currently sounds so great, that I have ceased to notice or look for any flaws.
Thanks for you posts.
Patrick
One day, I will take my pair of PLAY: 1's out of my bedroom and pair them to the SUB for a taste test. I would imagine that the 5's would at least be louder with more mids at the same volume level as the 1's.
I'll do it soon and let you know how it sounds to my ear.
That would be interesting. Remember though that any sound quality comparison must be done with as identical sound levels - not levels on the volume control - as possible, for it to be a valid comparison. The question is - where the sound levels from the 1 pair + Sub are adequate, does the 5 pair + Sub sound any different, all other things including sound levels being identical. The volume control may be set lower on the 5 pair, but that isn't relevant.
The lower volume control levels will only be relevant if the room/user demands higher sound levels, which the 1 pair + Sub may not be able to provide, as is quite likely to be the case in comparison with a 5 pair + Sub. But this is a result of system power, not system sound quality. And the question is where the sound levels that can be delivered by a 1 pair + Sub are adequate, is there any sound quality return for the significantly higher cost of a 5 pair + Sub set up.
One day, I will take my pair of PLAY: 1's out of my bedroom and pair them to the SUB for a taste test. I would imagine that the 5's would at least be louder with more mids at the same volume level as the 1's.
I'll do it soon and let you know how it sounds to my ear.
That would be interesting. Remember though that any sound quality comparison must be done with as identical sound levels - not levels on the volume control - as possible, for it to be a valid comparison. The question is - where the sound levels from the 1 pair + Sub are adequate, does the 5 pair + Sub sound any different, all other things including sound levels being identical. The volume control may be set lower on the 5 pair, but that isn't relevant.
The lower volume control levels will only be relevant if the room/user demands higher sound levels, which the 1 pair + Sub may not be able to provide, as is quite likely to be the case in comparison with a 5 pair + Sub. But this is a result of system power, not system sound quality. And the question is where the sound levels that can be delivered by a 1 pair + Sub are adequate, is there any sound quality return for the significantly higher cost of a 5 pair + Sub set up.
You're absolutely right. I'll make sure to keep the sound outputs the same for both setups...
1. In my somewhat large open space
Plus, my PLAY: 5's are only about 5 feet apart, so the lower end stereo separation is not as noticeable anyway.
Pointing out a seeming contradiction above - this set up dictates that stereo imaging will be available only up to about 5 feet away from the speakers, a very small part of a large listening room.
If you want the stereo illusion to be heard deeper into the room in a larger sweet spot, the speakers need to be further apart, using the equilateral triangle thumb rule. And once you did that, the impact of mono bass from the Sub v stereo bass from the further separated 5 units could be a noticeable factor in driving a preference.
1. In my somewhat large open space
Plus, my PLAY: 5's are only about 5 feet apart, so the lower end stereo separation is not as noticeable anyway.
Pointing out a seeming contradiction above - this set up dictates that stereo imaging will be available only up to about 5 feet away from the speakers, a very small part of a large listening room.
If you want the stereo illusion to be heard deeper into the room in a larger sweet spot, the speakers need to be further apart, using the equilateral triangle thumb rule. And once you did that, the impact of mono bass from the Sub v stereo bass from the further separated 5 units would be a noticeable factor in driving a preference.
I understand you. What I mean to say is what you are saying: my speakers are so close together that I do not benefit from low end stereo separation. For me, it is much harder to determine stereo separation with lower frequencies when the speakers are only 5 feet apart, so having the mono sub is not a big drawback for me.
My couches are set up so that I can have focused listening roughly 5 feet away for maximized stereo imaging--although good imaging is available even several feet beyond that. Still, since the room is big, the PLAY: 5's are powerful enough to fill the room. It is not perfect stereo when I am way back in the kitchen, but it still sounds good enough to cook and eat happily. : )
My couches are set up so that I can have focused listening roughly 5 feet away for maximized stereo imaging--although good imaging is available even several feet beyond that. Still, since the room is big, the PLAY: 5's are powerful enough to fill the room. It is not perfect stereo when I am way back in the kitchen, but it still sounds good enough to cook and eat happily. : )
Fair enough - as always, the last sentence is the most relevant, if it sounds right, it must be right too!
And this also makes it easy for you to do the 1 pair sound quality test. Do it from the same focused listening area from 5 feet away. At that distance the 1 pair will not be constrained for power and allow for a valid apples to apples comparison, by placing them exactly where the 5 units are placed.
For your kitchen listening a 1 pair + Sub probably won't be as good, but my solution for that is to plunk in 1 unit/s in any other place that I need music.
Another thought: Since you have a play 1 pair on hand, and your focused listening is from just 5 feet away, there may be an opportunity to drop 1 units in place of the 5 pair and redeploy the two 5 units to another room, or even rooms. In smaller spaces, just one of the new 5 units ought to do very well, by all accounts.
Sonos is rare in offering these kind of options/flexibility.
Sonos is rare in offering these kind of options/flexibility.
Userlevel 1
+1
Awesome thread. Exactly what I wanted to hear. I have two of the new play 5s in stereo and was thinking about getting the sub in the future. Coming from a Logitech Z‑5500 5.1 setup, I feel that the new play 5 is lacking the bass that my Logitech easily pumps out. On the plus side, the Logitech can not compete with stereo separation and clarity of the play 5s. So, does anyone know if the Sonos Sub as good if not, better than the Logitech Z‑5500?
Just the read through the thread. Nice input everyone! The Sonos userbase seems very helpful and friendly 🙂
Im very pleased to hear you like the setup Patrick. I will give your EQ settings a try later today and see how i like them. One thing i seem to have forgotten - which you even point out yourself - is how the sub adds a lot of sound to the system when its playing on low volume settings. I enjoy this a lot, since i live in an apartment and cannot crank up the sub when its getting late 🙂
Im very pleased to hear you like the setup Patrick. I will give your EQ settings a try later today and see how i like them. One thing i seem to have forgotten - which you even point out yourself - is how the sub adds a lot of sound to the system when its playing on low volume settings. I enjoy this a lot, since i live in an apartment and cannot crank up the sub when its getting late 🙂
Sonos is rare in offering these kind of options/flexibility.
Kumar:
I have not had a moment to swap out speakers, but I will let you know as soon as I get the 1's hooked up for a detailed comparison, using the criteria we discussed...
Lyzheng:
I am not familiar with the Z-5500, but I would be surprised if you were disappointed with adding the SONOS SUB. I'm completely satisfied with it. If you don't mind spending the cash, GIVE IT A TRY! : )
I'm sure we'd all love to hear your opinion on the setup.
Im very pleased to hear you like the setup Patrick. I will give your EQ settings a try later today and see how i like them. One thing i seem to have forgotten - which you even point out yourself - is how the sub adds a lot of sound to the system when its playing on low volume settings. I enjoy this a lot, since i live in an apartment and cannot crank up the sub when its getting late :)
Rune:
Thank you for helping to get this thread started with the first replies to my question. Everyone has definitely been quite positive and helpful.
I'm interested to hear what you have to say about my EQ settings. It could be TRUEPLAY is better for you, but it limited the range of my speakers in my room.
"Loudness" is a human condition. Here is a thread that explains some details. A Wikipedia article has more detail.
In most situations I prefer not to use Loudness, but the SONOS Loudness function is one of the best available because SONOS knows the efficiency of their speakers. Unfortunately, SONOS cannot know the room size.
A subwoofer tends to improve the overall system sound by minimizing system intermodulation distortion because the job presented to the main speaker and subwoofer is simplified. Here is a quick tutorial on distortion.
BUZZ:
Thank you for your input. I will read the article, but I would have to say I already agree with your observation because the highs and mids sound noticeably cleaner when pairing the 5's with the SUB. Until I did that, there was always a little pinch of muddiness in the 5's that bothered me. It's gone now. Now the highs and mids float cleanly on a fuller cloud of bass--I LOVE IT.
The reasons don't matter that much - what you like is what is right for you in these cases. The play 1 pair + Sub remains an excellent system where it isn't asked to deliver more sound levels that it can honestly deliver.
Userlevel 1
+1
Thanks for the reply. The reason I asked is because I was thinking about getting th Sonos connect amp and just hook up the Logitech sub with the play 5s. However, I'm not entirely sure that it will work.
If you like the way music sounds with true play off, why do you not play it that way? True play conforms to what Sonos thinks good sound should be like; not everyone has to agree with that!
If you like the way music sounds with true play off, why do you not play it that way? True play conforms to what Sonos thinks good sound should be like; not everyone has to agree with that!
I refuse to defer to TRUEPLAY when it comes to my PLAY: 5 (gen2) stereo + SUB combo; the bass is anemic when Trueplay is ON. I've read reviews that say the right custom EQ is preferable to Trueplay, if you have the time. I agree with that. I believe the pics of the EQ that worked for me are somewhere in this thread, but those are obviously for my specific room.
ALSO, KUMAR, I have not forgotten about the PLAY:5 vs PLAY: 1 stereo + SUB combo comparison. I've just been busy at work, but I will try to do it this weekend...
Interestingly enough, just last night I got a SUB to add to my pair of gen2 Play:5s. I am happy with it so far. It makes a small difference on some songs and a huge difference on other songs. I have my tv plugged into the line-in on one of my 5s and it really pops there. I found the setting the SUB to half way between the max and mid setting worked best.
Tonight I will follow the suggestions from earlier in the thread and turn off the loudness and trueplay and see what happens.
Tonight I will follow the suggestions from earlier in the thread and turn off the loudness and trueplay and see what happens.
I have 4 gen 2 play 5s and a SUB among various other sonos. I tried the sub with the pair and found it offers only about 5% more bass then the play:2 pair-only noticeable on Some songs not all. True there is more bass-but not a lot more. I decided the SUB was much better used with other play units where the effect was more pronounced. For 750 dollar it didn't add that value for me to a pair of play5 2nd gen
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