Does anyone see the value in adding a SONOS SUB to a stereo pair of GEN 2 PLAY: 5's?
I've been told that the DSP / crossover functionality of adding the sub to this set would lighten the low end load of the PLAY: 5's, allowing them to more powerfully and clearly produce the mids and highs.
My specific questions:
1. Are there really high and mid frequency benefits to be gained from allowing the sub to handle the low end? Or would the sub just handle the low end, while the highs and mids on the PLAY: 5's sound exactly as they did without the SUB?
2. The pair of PLAY: 5's already deliver substantial bass, so are there even more substantial / noticeable gains to be had from adding the SUB? Or do 2 PLAY: 5's roughly equal the low end output of 1 SUB?
I consider myself a very lightweight audiophile, so I would love to gain more clarity and power if adding the SUB can achieve this, but I do not want to waste the money, if the stereo pair can provide roughly the same clarity and high / mid range power as it already does, while also handling similar low end to the sub?
Many thanks in advance to anyone, who may have input.
Best,
Patrick
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Hi Patrick. I decided to make an account on this forum for the first time, just to participate in this thread 🙂
I currently rock this exact setup in my living room. Let me start out by saying it sounds amazing! I had the same worries as you when thinking about adding the sub to my pair of play 5 gen 2's. I consider my self a light audiophile as well and often listen to flac files through the system. The 5's on their own of course sound amazing, but the sub definitely adds something to the system. I'd say its pretty hard to hear any noticeable difference on the mids and highs. I can hear some improvement with the sub, but its not very much. The low end frequencies however are quite different with the sub attached. The sub definitely goes deeper than the 5's and adds a lot of power to the low-end frequencies.
In addition to this the sub gives the low frequencies a whole new dimension. With the 5's alone it is quite easy to locate the bass coming from the speakers. With the sub attached it is virtually impossible to locate the source of the bass, which makes the musical experience much more immersive (in my opinion). My girlfriend - who is not at all an audiophile - described the difference in the sound in a way i find quite striking: "With the 5's alone its like someone is spraying water at you from the front, while with the sub attached its like being underwater and being completely immersed in the sound."
Granted, the sub won't add as much as it would to a pair of any other players, since the bass on the 5's is very good on their own, but it definitely adds a lot to the system. I for one have not regretted purchasing the sub at all.
Hope this helps. Best of luck on deciding.
Rune
I currently rock this exact setup in my living room. Let me start out by saying it sounds amazing! I had the same worries as you when thinking about adding the sub to my pair of play 5 gen 2's. I consider my self a light audiophile as well and often listen to flac files through the system. The 5's on their own of course sound amazing, but the sub definitely adds something to the system. I'd say its pretty hard to hear any noticeable difference on the mids and highs. I can hear some improvement with the sub, but its not very much. The low end frequencies however are quite different with the sub attached. The sub definitely goes deeper than the 5's and adds a lot of power to the low-end frequencies.
In addition to this the sub gives the low frequencies a whole new dimension. With the 5's alone it is quite easy to locate the bass coming from the speakers. With the sub attached it is virtually impossible to locate the source of the bass, which makes the musical experience much more immersive (in my opinion). My girlfriend - who is not at all an audiophile - described the difference in the sound in a way i find quite striking: "With the 5's alone its like someone is spraying water at you from the front, while with the sub attached its like being underwater and being completely immersed in the sound."
Granted, the sub won't add as much as it would to a pair of any other players, since the bass on the 5's is very good on their own, but it definitely adds a lot to the system. I for one have not regretted purchasing the sub at all.
Hope this helps. Best of luck on deciding.
Rune
Glad to be of help 🙂
The EQ with the SUB added was definitely confusing for me in the beginning as well. I played around a lot with all of the EQ settings and found the following (bear in mind that EQ settings depends greatly on personal opinion and the geometry of the room):
Software:
Trueplay affected both the play 5's and the SUB. The LOUDNESS setting affects both the 5's and the SUB. Turning up the bass on the room setting also turned up the bass of the SUB. Adjusting the SUB level only changes the bass output of the SUB and not the play 5's.
Sound:
Trueplay always improved the overall sound (with more than 10 trueplays performed). Results varied a bit from each trueplay, but not significantly. With the LOUDNESS setting on and the SUB set to neutral in its own settings, i hardly noticed the SUB when turning it on and off. Setting LOUDNESS off however made it quite easy to hear when the SUB was off or on.
Having LOUNDESS off also resulted in noticeably higher fidelity in the overall sound of both the 5's and the SUB. The 5's sounded clearer and the SUB was a lot tighter than with LOUDNESS on, where i found the low end frequencies to be a little muddy. Having LOUDNESS off however meant that there weren't quite the amount of oomph to the bass than with LOUDNESS on. I compensated for this by setting the SUB to around 70% (with 50% being neutral). I found no improvement in changing the settings for treble and bass in the room settings.
In conclusion i found having that LOUDNESS off improved highs and mids of the 5's and improved the tightness of the SUB. I found that having the room settings of treble and bass to neutral and the SUB level to around 70% (to compensate for LOUDNESS off) - all while using trueplay on the speakers as the first thing -resulted in the best sound. I'd say playing around with the EQ settings like this resulted in around twice as good sound as leaving them neutral.
I'm going to bed now, but will be happy to answer any further questions tomorrow.
The EQ with the SUB added was definitely confusing for me in the beginning as well. I played around a lot with all of the EQ settings and found the following (bear in mind that EQ settings depends greatly on personal opinion and the geometry of the room):
Software:
Trueplay affected both the play 5's and the SUB. The LOUDNESS setting affects both the 5's and the SUB. Turning up the bass on the room setting also turned up the bass of the SUB. Adjusting the SUB level only changes the bass output of the SUB and not the play 5's.
Sound:
Trueplay always improved the overall sound (with more than 10 trueplays performed). Results varied a bit from each trueplay, but not significantly. With the LOUDNESS setting on and the SUB set to neutral in its own settings, i hardly noticed the SUB when turning it on and off. Setting LOUDNESS off however made it quite easy to hear when the SUB was off or on.
Having LOUNDESS off also resulted in noticeably higher fidelity in the overall sound of both the 5's and the SUB. The 5's sounded clearer and the SUB was a lot tighter than with LOUDNESS on, where i found the low end frequencies to be a little muddy. Having LOUDNESS off however meant that there weren't quite the amount of oomph to the bass than with LOUDNESS on. I compensated for this by setting the SUB to around 70% (with 50% being neutral). I found no improvement in changing the settings for treble and bass in the room settings.
In conclusion i found having that LOUDNESS off improved highs and mids of the 5's and improved the tightness of the SUB. I found that having the room settings of treble and bass to neutral and the SUB level to around 70% (to compensate for LOUDNESS off) - all while using trueplay on the speakers as the first thing -resulted in the best sound. I'd say playing around with the EQ settings like this resulted in around twice as good sound as leaving them neutral.
I'm going to bed now, but will be happy to answer any further questions tomorrow.
I think I will give the SUB a try with my stereo pair, and I'll let you know what I find.
That is a good idea.
Given the sound quality of the new 5 units, a Sub will not add as much value as it would to a 1 pair. And the mid range clean up benefit is also greater in smaller speakers like the 1 units, where the bass note delivery can "take over" the smaller enclosure, and muddy the mid range.
One downside to one Sub is that bass notes are delivered in mono - not usually a problem unless the Sub is located a distance away, it isn't easy to locate these by ear. But I know people that prefer to have 2 smaller subs, in stereo over one large one, to get over this issue. By adding a Sub to a 5 pair, you are giving up the stereo bass stage effect that the 5 units do pretty well, going down to as low as the Sub does. With Sonos, only one Sub can be in use.
I suspect that a Sub benefit over and above giving up stereo bass will truly be visible if you play loud in a large room; bear in mind all of this factors in your trial. Finally, what sounds good to you is the best judge of what is right for you.
Userlevel 7
+26
I currently rock this exact setup in my living room. Let me start out by saying it sounds amazing!
Welcome to the community Rune and Patrick! Thanks for joining and helping out. Just adding a little confirmation as well, the SUB will free up some of the PLAY:5's power to handle more in the highs and mids. If you're interested in testing it out, we offer a 45 day money back guaranty for all units purchased through our shop directly. You can pick a SUB up here and give it a test drive at home.
I think I will give the SUB a try with my stereo pair, and I'll let you know what I find.
That is a good idea.
Given the sound quality of the new 5 units, a Sub will not add as much value as it would to a 1 pair. And the mid range clean up benefit is also greater in smaller speakers like the 1 units, where the bass note delivery can "take over" the smaller enclosure, and muddy the mid range.
One downside to one Sub is that bass notes are delivered in mono - not usually a problem unless the Sub is located a distance away, it isn't easy to locate these by ear. But I know people that prefer to have 2 smaller subs, in stereo over one large one, to get over this issue. By adding a Sub to a 5 pair, you are giving up the stereo bass stage effect that the 5 units do pretty well, going down to as low as the Sub does. With Sonos, only one Sub can be in use.
I suspect that a Sub benefit over and above giving up stereo bass will truly be visible if you play loud in a large room; bear in mind all of this factors in your trial. Finally, what sounds good to you is the best judge of what is right for you.
Thank you, Kumar! I am grateful for the varied responses from everyone thus far.
The potential lack of stereo bass is something that I would not have even accounted for. When I demo the sub, I am curious to see how much I notice the difference between mono and stereo bass. Maybe SONOS will one day initiate an update that allows for 2 SUBS in a single setup. That would definitely make sense for people with larger rooms to fill that can afford it.
Thanks again for the thoughtful, informed reply and giving me another aspect to pay attention to.
I am excited to experiment with the SUB soon and let you all know what I think of it.
Best regards,
Patrick
As someone who has 4 2nd gen play5s and a SUB and who Has tried this setup. My experience is that although it is a wider bass with the sub added it was overall not a great enough difference with the sub because of the already great sound and low freq with the new play 5s. There were some tracks I could hardly notice and only when blaring dance or rap tracks could I tell a bit of a deference in the low end.
In cknclusion it wasn't substantial enough to keep the sub bonded (unless j was having a rave) because play5 pair was great on own.
In my opinion the SUB was best served bonded with a play1 or play3 pair and the play5s on their own with good bass in multiple rooms hat way
In cknclusion it wasn't substantial enough to keep the sub bonded (unless j was having a rave) because play5 pair was great on own.
In my opinion the SUB was best served bonded with a play1 or play3 pair and the play5s on their own with good bass in multiple rooms hat way
I feel that I have finally created an SONOS setup that is worthy of a junior audiophile. So that makes the addition of the SUB very much worth it for me. It didn't just improve the low end, it improved everything.
Useful report, thank you! I am still looking for a good comparison between a 5 pair+Sub as you have in place, and a 1pair + Sub; I suspect that with bass duties handed over to the Sub in both cases, there will be little difference to be heard.
I have done enough of the audiophile stuff in my life, and based now on my 1 pair + Sub experience, I can say that your 5 pair + Sub set up goes a lot beyond junior audiophile set ups, in sound quality.
And don't hold your breath over the NAS quality - there is no reason why it should sound better than streamed, except expectation bias. I listen to a lot of music from Apple Music and that bought on iTunes, both are 256 kbps lossy files. I can't make out any difference from the same recordings on my NAS, ripped lossless from CDs.
You can, if you choose, do the blind testing to come to your conclusion about the above assertion; or, forget about these trifles and enjoy the music from either source:-).
Hi everyone,
I am fortunate enough (spent a lot of money though) to have both the play 5’s and a sub in the same room as the soundbar, two play ones and a (second) sub. That means that i have two setups. One for music and one for watching movies.
The difference in sound between the setups is significant and serves their different purpose well.
I als fiddled around a lot with the EQ. Whereas trueplay made a huge difference in my 5.1 setup, it did very little with the play 5’s. In fact the sound got (much) worse. It was flat and all base had gone. I then tried a lot of settings and found the following setting works best for me. Rich in sound and detail, while not too much bass.
I use loudness on, bass and treble plus 1, trueplay off, and the sub at -8, so turned down a lot. This makes for a rich immersive sound.
Thought I just share this with you. Maybe you can try.
I know this thread is ancient now, but I just want to add my impression for the record.
I added a sub to my 2nd gen Play 5 stereo pair a few days ago. I bought the play 5s a over a year ago and held off adding the sub as I was skeptical that it would make a significant difference. Having finally decided to give the sub a go, I can report that I was wrong to be skeptical. The difference the sub has made ranges from subtle to significant depending on the bass content of the music being played - not surprisingly, I suppose what I am trying to say is that the contribution this unit makes seems to be appropriate to the the music being played - I did have a concern that the effect might be over-stated. There does seem to be an improvement generally in the mid-range and the bass extension is better formed without, as noted above, being over-stated. The increase in clarity in the mid-range is something of a surprise in that it is so noticeable. I suppose the crossover logic has changed, resulting in less bass being fed to the play 5s with the end result that the mid-woofers are now being asked to transduce a frequency range more suited to their physical characteristics.
I am pleased I bought the sub, for me it is worth it.
Rune! Again, many thanks!
Your in depth guidance is a good baseline for me to start.
I think I will give the SUB a try with my stereo pair, and I'll let you know what I find.
I can't thank you enough for being so specific.
Best regards, and I'll follow up when I've done the deed.
Take care,
Patrick
Your in depth guidance is a good baseline for me to start.
I think I will give the SUB a try with my stereo pair, and I'll let you know what I find.
I can't thank you enough for being so specific.
Best regards, and I'll follow up when I've done the deed.
Take care,
Patrick
The support of the SONOS Community is great; thanks again to all of you for your input. I've taken all of your advice into consideration, and then I got a SONOS SUB to pair with my GEN 2 PLAY: 5's. Here are my observations:
1. In my somewhat large open space, my ears definitely can discern a considerable difference between the stereo pair PLAY: 5's with and without the SUB. The PLAY: 5's offer a surprising low end, but I would have to agree with RUNE: the low end from the PLAY: 5's sounds directional, coming straight from the speaker, while the low end from the SUB envelopes you and the room, providing the PLAY: 5's with a all encompassing foundation to shine on. This is true even when you keep the bass at a moderate level.
Again, the PLAY: 5's have great bass, but the SUB provides a tighter and much larger punch--the bass is thicker, richer. It also helps that (like RYAN S said) the power and clarity of the highs and mids benefit from allowing the SUB to handle the load of the low end. The already great stereo separation of the higher frequencies was cleaner and louder--in a good way.
KUMAR mentioned that I would sacrifice stereo low end by crossing the bass over to the mono SUB, but I preferred the pervasive, broad thump of the SUB's low end as opposed to the directional bass from the 5's. Plus, my PLAY: 5's are only about 5 feet apart, so the lower end stereo separation is not as noticeable anyway.
I know CHIROSONO does not think the SUB is worth pairing with the 5's, but to my ears, it's worth it in my room. Every frequency feels richer and more present--even when the bass is not turned up loud.
2. TRUEPLAY does not benefit my room. Until now, I never had time to manually EQ my setup, so I just used TRUEPLAY. I thought it sounded good, but, after paring the SUB with and without TRUEPLAY, the default audio settings provide a much fuller range of sound. Relatively speaking, TRUEPLAY sounded thinner and limited--like the sound was being funneled through a tunnel. When I turned the bass up as RUNE suggested, it sounded better, but still not as full as by turning TRUEPLAY off and doing my own slight EQ.
Turning off TRUEPLAY dramatically thickens the sound, so I had to turn the SUB bass down about 5%-10% from neutral. I also notched up the 5's treble about 10%. I turned loudness off. This made the PLAY: 5' s sound as good as I had read they sound in reviews. The sound was clear, powerful and at the fullest range I've ever heard from a SONOS setup. Any slight muddiness I used to hear in the mids and lower end frequencies is completely gone. I have pictures of my EQ settings below.
As mentioned, my PLAY: 5's are about 5 feet apart on a table, and my SUB is right next to them on the floor--in a parallel line. My PLAY: 5's are oriented in the vertical position for better stereo separation. Also, I tested audio by streaming HIFI files from TIDAL PREMIUM, which is usually pretty good. I can only imagine how great they will sound when I stream my own HIFI files from my NAS.
I have never been happier with my PLAY: 5's (or any of my other SONOS gear), and I feel that I have finally created an SONOS setup that is worthy of a junior audiophile. So that makes the addition of the SUB very much worth it for me. It didn't just improve the low end, it improved everything.
Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this conversation, and I am always interested in any other advice or questions you may have.
Best regards,
Patrick
1. In my somewhat large open space, my ears definitely can discern a considerable difference between the stereo pair PLAY: 5's with and without the SUB. The PLAY: 5's offer a surprising low end, but I would have to agree with RUNE: the low end from the PLAY: 5's sounds directional, coming straight from the speaker, while the low end from the SUB envelopes you and the room, providing the PLAY: 5's with a all encompassing foundation to shine on. This is true even when you keep the bass at a moderate level.
Again, the PLAY: 5's have great bass, but the SUB provides a tighter and much larger punch--the bass is thicker, richer. It also helps that (like RYAN S said) the power and clarity of the highs and mids benefit from allowing the SUB to handle the load of the low end. The already great stereo separation of the higher frequencies was cleaner and louder--in a good way.
KUMAR mentioned that I would sacrifice stereo low end by crossing the bass over to the mono SUB, but I preferred the pervasive, broad thump of the SUB's low end as opposed to the directional bass from the 5's. Plus, my PLAY: 5's are only about 5 feet apart, so the lower end stereo separation is not as noticeable anyway.
I know CHIROSONO does not think the SUB is worth pairing with the 5's, but to my ears, it's worth it in my room. Every frequency feels richer and more present--even when the bass is not turned up loud.
2. TRUEPLAY does not benefit my room. Until now, I never had time to manually EQ my setup, so I just used TRUEPLAY. I thought it sounded good, but, after paring the SUB with and without TRUEPLAY, the default audio settings provide a much fuller range of sound. Relatively speaking, TRUEPLAY sounded thinner and limited--like the sound was being funneled through a tunnel. When I turned the bass up as RUNE suggested, it sounded better, but still not as full as by turning TRUEPLAY off and doing my own slight EQ.
Turning off TRUEPLAY dramatically thickens the sound, so I had to turn the SUB bass down about 5%-10% from neutral. I also notched up the 5's treble about 10%. I turned loudness off. This made the PLAY: 5' s sound as good as I had read they sound in reviews. The sound was clear, powerful and at the fullest range I've ever heard from a SONOS setup. Any slight muddiness I used to hear in the mids and lower end frequencies is completely gone. I have pictures of my EQ settings below.
As mentioned, my PLAY: 5's are about 5 feet apart on a table, and my SUB is right next to them on the floor--in a parallel line. My PLAY: 5's are oriented in the vertical position for better stereo separation. Also, I tested audio by streaming HIFI files from TIDAL PREMIUM, which is usually pretty good. I can only imagine how great they will sound when I stream my own HIFI files from my NAS.
I have never been happier with my PLAY: 5's (or any of my other SONOS gear), and I feel that I have finally created an SONOS setup that is worthy of a junior audiophile. So that makes the addition of the SUB very much worth it for me. It didn't just improve the low end, it improved everything.
Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this conversation, and I am always interested in any other advice or questions you may have.
Best regards,
Patrick
Runedk,
"Loudness" is a human condition. Here is a thread that explains some details. A Wikipedia article has more detail.
In most situations I prefer not to use Loudness, but the SONOS Loudness function is one of the best available because SONOS knows the efficiency of their speakers. Unfortunately, SONOS cannot know the room size.
A subwoofer tends to improve the overall system sound by minimizing system intermodulation distortion because the job presented to the main speaker and subwoofer is simplified. Here is a quick tutorial on distortion.
"Loudness" is a human condition. Here is a thread that explains some details. A Wikipedia article has more detail.
In most situations I prefer not to use Loudness, but the SONOS Loudness function is one of the best available because SONOS knows the efficiency of their speakers. Unfortunately, SONOS cannot know the room size.
A subwoofer tends to improve the overall system sound by minimizing system intermodulation distortion because the job presented to the main speaker and subwoofer is simplified. Here is a quick tutorial on distortion.
Userlevel 1
+1
I reset the controller and reconnect my speakers and sub. Surprisingly, it made a difference. Now when I switch the sub on and off while using trueplay, (keeping all levels at halfway mark)I can tell the difference. The play 5s are starting to sound flatter without the sub now. I also adjusted the bass and treble along with the sub and finally the Sonos sub has blown my 12 year old Logitech z-5500 away, I can finally let it go now. The sub along with the play 5s are just so clear sounding and heart pounding! I usually don't listen to song with a lot of bass, but when the bass comes in on those songs, the sub delivers, and that's what matter most. Also, the sub does seem like it expands the sound stage a bit more.
SUB is great for MOST sonos paired speakers-but $749 for adding "wider, not directional bass"?!? Come on lol
LOL. I completely get your point. I was quite satisfied with my PLAY: 5's even before I added the SUB. I imagine most people would be satisfied with a PLAY: 5 stereo pair as we were...but then I got picky. : ) It helps that I had a generous Best Buy gift certificate and finally found an OPEN BOX SUB! Ha!
I could have spent the same amount of money for better bookshelf speakers, an amp, and a wired sub, but then I either have wires all over my living room OR I'm paying to run wires through the wall and set up in a room not so much intended to look tech-y / man cave-y. SONOS does deliver for the money with a clean, easy set up that does a lot of the DSP / crossover work for you. I have a real / wired 2.1 HIFI setup in my guesthouse, and it is much more of a hassle for me to find the right EQ / bass management setup.
The SUB is a tremendous luxury, but I have no buyers remorse. It is not as much of a bass upgrade as it would be for a stereo pair of PLAY: 1's (which I also love), but my PLAY: 5 + SUB 2.1 setup exhibits a combination of power and clarity that I never imagined I would get from a SONOS streaming system!
Earlier today - before I read this thread, I posted in the wireless speaker section relating to pairinf two 2nd gen Play 5's with the sub .... I am not anywhere near the technical skills and understanding of you guys, but I know what I heard and my response to it! Having read through this thread I have to admit to being tempted to unbox the 5's again and have another go - particularly with the suggested EQ settings.
As an aside I also have the Connect in my sitting room hooked up to an old Sony TV all in one stand with built in speakers (RHT-G900) which I bought in 2009 for 199 GBP a little more than a play 1 costs today!! I keep trying to justify getting rid of it, but it keeps delivering awesome sound from 450w of speakers! I tried the 5's against it yesterday and still could't justify the change!!
So here is my earlier post....
Hi there - I have only recently invested in Sonos kit replacing a mish, mash of bluetooth and AirPlay stuff!
Anyway - I have a pair of Play 1's and a pair of Play 5's and a sub... I bought the 5's from Amazon with the intention of putting them in my kitchen as a stereo pair with the sub.. I set it all up and waited to be blown away! In the end after much faffing around, I decided I preferred the pair of Play 1's with the sub to the Play 5's either on their own or with the sub... I was very surprised by this and did some further testing and found that I most liked the sound of the 5's when used stand alone as a single speaker. I'm no audiophile and so can't explain why I came to this conclusion - but the 1's with the sub are just more lively, defined - more fun I guess!!
I am now facing the prospect of returning the two Play 5's to Amazon and buying an additional two play 1's for my study and bathroom. I do love the play 5 in my bedroom, its ideal as a single speaker - but I'm not convinced of it's qualities as in a stereo pair config! Also I'm interested in others opinion of the Sub - the jury is out on this one at the moment - I will probably keep it but it hasn't blown me away...
PS I also have a single Play 3 and am keen to try a pair of these together and see how these compare to the Play 1's?
Nick
As an aside I also have the Connect in my sitting room hooked up to an old Sony TV all in one stand with built in speakers (RHT-G900) which I bought in 2009 for 199 GBP a little more than a play 1 costs today!! I keep trying to justify getting rid of it, but it keeps delivering awesome sound from 450w of speakers! I tried the 5's against it yesterday and still could't justify the change!!
So here is my earlier post....
Hi there - I have only recently invested in Sonos kit replacing a mish, mash of bluetooth and AirPlay stuff!
Anyway - I have a pair of Play 1's and a pair of Play 5's and a sub... I bought the 5's from Amazon with the intention of putting them in my kitchen as a stereo pair with the sub.. I set it all up and waited to be blown away! In the end after much faffing around, I decided I preferred the pair of Play 1's with the sub to the Play 5's either on their own or with the sub... I was very surprised by this and did some further testing and found that I most liked the sound of the 5's when used stand alone as a single speaker. I'm no audiophile and so can't explain why I came to this conclusion - but the 1's with the sub are just more lively, defined - more fun I guess!!
I am now facing the prospect of returning the two Play 5's to Amazon and buying an additional two play 1's for my study and bathroom. I do love the play 5 in my bedroom, its ideal as a single speaker - but I'm not convinced of it's qualities as in a stereo pair config! Also I'm interested in others opinion of the Sub - the jury is out on this one at the moment - I will probably keep it but it hasn't blown me away...
PS I also have a single Play 3 and am keen to try a pair of these together and see how these compare to the Play 1's?
Nick
Userlevel 1
+1
Got the sub on Wednesday, my first impression is not good. Tuned it with the play 5s(gen 2), however, the base sounds so flat and dull, most of the time it's not even noticeable! I really like using true play and always listen using it. When I crank the sub's bass to max, you can hear the bass but it seems like it's not the full potential. When I turned true play off, the bass came alive and really rock the house. So seems like I have two choices, turn off true play and have bass or turn on true play and have very tiny bass. I will test EQ settings noted here and see if it makes a difference, especially with true play turned on.
Thanks guys for your answer.
I have to say, reading your feedback, im cold feet to splurge so much money if the added value is not significant. I was considering to order it, test it for a while and potentially return im not convinced it but Im pretty sure that that i would end up keeping it maybe for the wrong reasons (cost+hassle to return such a heavy beast).
@ Chirosono, how are your 4 play5s (2nd gen) connected : 2xLeft and 2 Right in the same room or 4 Play 5 spread around your place? If its the former, how does that sound compared to 1xLeft + 1xRight ?!?
N.
I have to say, reading your feedback, im cold feet to splurge so much money if the added value is not significant. I was considering to order it, test it for a while and potentially return im not convinced it but Im pretty sure that that i would end up keeping it maybe for the wrong reasons (cost+hassle to return such a heavy beast).
@ Chirosono, how are your 4 play5s (2nd gen) connected : 2xLeft and 2 Right in the same room or 4 Play 5 spread around your place? If its the former, how does that sound compared to 1xLeft + 1xRight ?!?
N.
I have 2 stereo pairs in separate rooms
I'm six months late to reply but I just received my Sub today and I own some Logitech Z-5500s. (couple sets actually because I liked them so much)
It's actually been several years since I've used the Logitechs, but I feel the Sonos sub is at least as good, most likely much better than the Logitech sub.
Of course, one's definition of better various between people.
FWIW, I listen to a lot of electronic type music. For myself, I feel the Sonos Sub absolutely improved my Play 5 G2s. (Stereo Pair in vertical position)
I just purchased another Play 5 G1 tonight to pair with another one I have here and plan to put them in the same room with the bass turned way down and at low volume. One stereo set in front of me and one behind. Yeah I know, it's probably not the "right" way to set them up, but I enjoy the way it sounds.
EDIT: I noticed after I posted that Lyzheng now had the Sub. 🙂
Having already been impressed with my Play:5, I wanted to get another and the ideal opportunity came-up with the 15% anniversary offer and I picked-up a Sub at the same time. I figured that I'd use it for music and then if I ever get a TV setup I'd use the Sub for that instead (with whatever system Sonos were selling at the time).
Anyway, while this is an old thread I just wanted to chime-in and say it was useful as I knew before I went to purchase the Sub that there wouldn't be a night & day difference when paired with 2 Play:5s - thanks forum!
So if you're like I was a month or 2 ago hitting this thread after a Google search and wondering whether to get a Sub to compliment the gen 2 Play:5s that you're buying for music, then I'd suggest just go with the pair of Play 5s as they're a solid purchase and then revisit the Sub after a few months if you feel there's something lacking.
Anyway, while this is an old thread I just wanted to chime-in and say it was useful as I knew before I went to purchase the Sub that there wouldn't be a night & day difference when paired with 2 Play:5s - thanks forum!
So if you're like I was a month or 2 ago hitting this thread after a Google search and wondering whether to get a Sub to compliment the gen 2 Play:5s that you're buying for music, then I'd suggest just go with the pair of Play 5s as they're a solid purchase and then revisit the Sub after a few months if you feel there's something lacking.
This is an older thread but I figured I’d chime in as I have recently added a sub to my pair of play:5s (gen 2).
First off, I don’t really watch TV, so I use this as an audio system solely.
How it boils down for me is that it really depends what type of music you listen to. I listen to everything from folk to hip hop. When bass is involved it is a significant improvement with the SUB. I wouldn’t so much as say nessisary as the 5s hold their own, but the sub adds a layer to the music that steps it into a much more enveloped experience, one that feels, to me, to be more complete. It becomes a much greater multi layered, non directional sound. If you are on the fence and buy one on a trial/returnable period be careful. The 5s are phenomenal until you add the sub, then, they start to sound a little flat in comparison! Haha.
That said, there are many tracks I listen to that the sub adds absolutely no value. In those moments, however, I don’t doubt the overall value it adds to the system as a whole. And then there’re tracks that my smile tickles at how great it sounds. For the most part I am a believer that good bass shouldn’t be overly noticeable, but increase rhe texture and depth of the sound in an unobtrusive and subtle way, and that is 100% accomplished by its addition.
I personally prefer not use TRUEPLAY with the sub, as I tend to adjust the levels a little bit more regularly when it’s connected (and wish there were a more convenient EQ, or at a minimum just have the sub controls in the regular EQ section as opposed to on their own tucked away in menus)
Is it worth it? Well, that is subjective. If you can swing the cost it certainly adds to the system. Is it needed? No. Is it appreciated? Absolutely.
Questions I’m left with and curious to hear others thoughts:
1) for a similar cost you could do a 5.1 system with the Playbar, two 1’s, and a sub. How would this compare to a pairs of 5s and the sub? I think I’d miss the line in jack as I connect AirPlay to my system.
2) is the phenomenal native bass response in the 5s being wasted when adding a sub? In other words, part of what you’re paying for with the 5s is their full depth sound, what are the benefits of the 5s+Sub, compared to a pair of 1’s+sub?
First off, I don’t really watch TV, so I use this as an audio system solely.
How it boils down for me is that it really depends what type of music you listen to. I listen to everything from folk to hip hop. When bass is involved it is a significant improvement with the SUB. I wouldn’t so much as say nessisary as the 5s hold their own, but the sub adds a layer to the music that steps it into a much more enveloped experience, one that feels, to me, to be more complete. It becomes a much greater multi layered, non directional sound. If you are on the fence and buy one on a trial/returnable period be careful. The 5s are phenomenal until you add the sub, then, they start to sound a little flat in comparison! Haha.
That said, there are many tracks I listen to that the sub adds absolutely no value. In those moments, however, I don’t doubt the overall value it adds to the system as a whole. And then there’re tracks that my smile tickles at how great it sounds. For the most part I am a believer that good bass shouldn’t be overly noticeable, but increase rhe texture and depth of the sound in an unobtrusive and subtle way, and that is 100% accomplished by its addition.
I personally prefer not use TRUEPLAY with the sub, as I tend to adjust the levels a little bit more regularly when it’s connected (and wish there were a more convenient EQ, or at a minimum just have the sub controls in the regular EQ section as opposed to on their own tucked away in menus)
Is it worth it? Well, that is subjective. If you can swing the cost it certainly adds to the system. Is it needed? No. Is it appreciated? Absolutely.
Questions I’m left with and curious to hear others thoughts:
1) for a similar cost you could do a 5.1 system with the Playbar, two 1’s, and a sub. How would this compare to a pairs of 5s and the sub? I think I’d miss the line in jack as I connect AirPlay to my system.
2) is the phenomenal native bass response in the 5s being wasted when adding a sub? In other words, part of what you’re paying for with the 5s is their full depth sound, what are the benefits of the 5s+Sub, compared to a pair of 1’s+sub?
2) is the phenomenal native bass response in the 5s being wasted when adding a sub? In other words, part of what you’re paying for with the 5s is their full depth sound, what are the benefits of the 5s+Sub, compared to a pair of 1’s+sub?
An objective answer is possible to only the first question with a Yes, in comparison to when a Sub is added to a 1 pair. To the second, the benefits are better sound quality - although even this is a subjective assessment - and even more subjective would be the comparison of this versus the extra cost to be paid for the extra benefit and whether the net difference of cost/benefit is negative or positive. And where the second question is concerned, without listening, all answers are of little use.
Update #2: put some acoustic foam underneath the feet to decouple from my suspended floor. Made a big difference has cleaned up the bottom end significantly. Lack of rigid mounting unimportant due to opposing firing drivers, unlike conventional uni directional drivers that need to be rigidly fixed in space.
I realize this is an old thread,but figured I’d input my experience since I got some nice ideas from a few of you folks.
Well,I finally got things up and running.First off….ARGH!….The tech guy I spoke to at Sonos recommended the WRONG smart phone for me to buy,after I’d called them and stated I was moving from an old flip phone to a new smart phone(finally)…...The Android phone he recommended,which I got,could not support the Trueplay feature!
I was pissed,but after speaking with a manager,we came to an agreement for me,down the road,if I wish to get any new/more advanced design in the future.I’m thinking something like the next generation Play 5 model…...Who knows? Time will tell.
I did not want to beat up on anyone,because I have a great deal of experience in audio equipment from the past and this particular thread gave me some good ideas….regarding playing around with EQ(I also have a friend who can eventually log onto my Sonos acct,with his “correct” I phone and allow me to try the Trueplay…..but….it will cost me a bottle of wine and a free dinner for him(ha).…...so….
My room acoustics turned out to be quite god overall.It is not a large room,but small-ish but so darn good acoustically! It vents energy out on one side,so the system can be played loudly,if needed.
I have a semi attached condo and just got some new neighbors,whose hound dog likes to howl and bark pretty often.It does not bother me too much,because I figure people have to live their lives…...and….I knew that with my new Sonos stereo Play 5’s coupled with the sub(phenomenal product,btw and really adds an improvement muscally/tonally and with “musical clout”) I could literally “nuke them” any time I want….Yuk.
I will be trying the Trueplay in about a week or so,but right now here’s what i have found….Not that many of you owners don’t know already…..
In the normal setting with loudness on the sound “at first” seemed OK…..I played stuff from Diana Krall to Kraftwerk,to Tine Hat Trio,to John Zorn. and the wife wanted Barbara Streisand in Concert.
After an hour of listening(since I know these recordings well,from my old high end system(long since gone) it all began to sound rather flattish and kinda’ dull…..To the average person,just wanting a nice sound it was fine,but my pal has the Play 5 pair with Trueplay(no sub) and it sounded better at his home…..Better depth/detail/sound stage!
I figured I could play with the EQ for a while and this made a rather large improvement sonically….Clearly audible!
I wound up not using the “loudness feature” and adding only about another 10-15% more bass…..This meant that the bass was a little past the halfway point on the EQ….but…..I fooled around alot just to get it right…..and…..If I never could get my friend over to hear what the Trueplay can do I’d be just fine…..It’s really that good!
This coming from someone who owned Avalon speakers,driven by Jeff Rowland/Audio Research/Mark Levinson equipment in the past.
This Sonos combination of stereo Play 5’s coupled with the Sonos sub and a “good” line filter/surge suppressor is sensational and I don’t mis my old hi-fi set up at all.
More tweaking to come,with regards to the Trueplay vs the EQ…..but….if I never go beyond what I am hearing now I’ll be beyond happy nevertheless.
Regards to all and sorry for my long winded post.
I
@Dreyfus You are right of course. Room characteristics and taste define what we perceive as the best listening experience. And also the fact that after a while we get used to a specific ’soundcolour’.
For the last couple of days I decided to leave trueplay on. I enhanced the bass by placing the slider of the sub about halfway. Also I cranked up the bass and treble a little on the eq of the play 5’s. I kept loudness on. Without loudness the sound is, at least in my experience, rather flat and dull.
I must say that with these new settings the sound seems more balanced. Especially the midtones seem more defined. Classical music for instance sounds better, for instance it is easier to recognize different instruments. Also the bass is less muddy listening to pop or rock (I have a broad taste :-) ).
I will try these settings for a few weeks I think. Because of course the main thing is to enjoy the music, not the fiddling around with settings. (Nevertheless I remain curious how the settings could work with loudness off also. Reading that some find this to be the closest to audiophile sound. ;-) )
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