I just read this about your recent SEC filing:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/11/17559380/sonos-airplay-2-support-software-update-download
“We expect that in the near to intermediate term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products,” says Sonos in a recent SEC filing.
When will you let customers know about which products will be affected by this discontinuation plan? Clearly you know internally since you say in the near to immediate term this policy is going ahead. I presume for example the first gen Play 5 you no longer sell will be affected and the old Sonos Bridge.
The problem for those of us using speakers with online services such as Spotify probably means once API changes are made by the service provider, we'll almost certainly be shut out from using those services with our older Sonos speakers.
There's nothing particularly shocking about this. I'm curious what the plan is though and when we'll be told.
Discontinuing service and software updates for older legacy Sonos speakers?
A
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Sonos is not a speaker, so expecting it to be like a speaker is nonsense. Sonos is an integrated multi-room music streamer, with significant reliance on an external ecosystem which includes things like cloud services, streaming services, voice services, etc. To expect 13+ year old technology to operate within this ecosystem in perpetuity is not only unrealistic, it is foolish. To expect it to be like the old pair of Advents you bought back in 1972 is downright absurd.
Furthermore, to expect Sonos to continually support every software/firmware release which occurs prior to an older unit no longer being supported is also unrealistic. Sonos is a for profit company, and how much profit is to be made if they waste manpower on a configuration which will eventually lose most if not all functionality, for a forever dwindling user base, who by definition will never buy another Sonos device? Answer: Not much.
And I suppose you don’t see how adressing someones concerns like this is insulting? The phrase ‘The pot calling the kettle black’ comes to mind.
Every maker of ‘smart’ devices faces this dilemma. If a device has a CPU and memory, at some point, one or the other won’t be enough to run the software. I can’t use my ‘386 computer with Win10, I can’t run iOS 13 on my original iPhone. It’s not great, but it’s part of what we get with smart / software driven devices. At least Sonos is just freezing the software updates to these devices, and not just bricking them. You can continue to use them.
Every maker of ‘smart’ devices faces this dilemma. If a device has a CPU and memory, at some point, one or the other won’t be enough to run the software. I can’t use my ‘386 computer with Win10, I can’t run iOS 13 on my original iPhone. It’s not great, but it’s part of what we get with smart / software driven devices. At least Sonos is just freezing the software updates to these devices, and not just bricking them. You can continue to use them.
...but not as a system? Becuase all units in the system need to be using the same software…? Or have I misunderstood?
One wonders about the motivation behind this move. Is it due to:
- Genuine difficulty/inability to support older products because of resource constraints?
- Forced obsolescence to encourage hardware purchases -- motivated by profit?
- Forced obsolescence to encourage purchases of voice activated products so Sonos can play in the surveillance capitalist space?
The first two feel unlikely. If it’s the latter, is it motivated by a fear that competitors such as Google and Amazon already occupy that space? Or crude greed at the opportunities the surveillance business model promises?
Considering all the devices designated as legacy have the original 32 MB RAM spec, and all those designated modern (even those with the same name as the 32 MB models - Connect, Connect:Amp) have 64 MB or more RAM, I would say its the first one.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Userlevel 7
+26
Sonos handled this extremely poorly. Most manufactures will continue to provide software updates for at least 5 years after they discontinue a product. I am a Sonos dealer and I received from Sonos my last Connect Amp shipment in January 2019. My last Connect was shipped to me in March 2019. I have customers with systems less than 1 year old that is now obsolete. They should have seen this coming and come out with a Connect Amp and Connect 2.0 years ago to avoid this issue.
Will you continue to be a Sonos dealer? If I was a customer of yours, I’d be frustrated at you as well as with Sonos. I was initially turned onto Sonos by my AV expert, and I’m guessing he’s now fielding many questions from frustrated clients.
Yes, I know my devices, the ones I quoted, will not be in question yet, but is it just a matter of time?
“I said the day they turn them off...”
If the program is misinformed, Sonos clearly have a lot of work to do to put this straight…
i wonder what ‘idiot’ bean counter at Sonos dreamt up such a scheme or the poor way of putting it out there so it could cause the misinformation wave / how it would be interpreted by so many? Nice brand damage job!
Caveat emptor, but even retrospectively we can kick and they can listen or suffer lower sales as a consequence.
Sonos handled this extremely poorly. Most manufactures will continue to provide software updates for at least 5 years after they discontinue a product. I am a Sonos dealer and I received from Sonos my last Connect Amp shipment in January 2019. My last Connect was shipped to me in March 2019. I have customers with systems less than 1 year old that is now obsolete. They should have seen this coming and come out with a Connect Amp and Connect 2.0 years ago to avoid this issue.
Every product on the legacy list was last manufactured in 2015.
Just spoke to my Sonos rep. It was not abundantly clear in the email that was distributed but only Connects and Connect Amps manufactured before 2015 will no longer be supported. This changes my opinion on how they handled this issue. I understand that hardware will eventually become obsolete and a 5 year support time window is reasonable.
No, it is not a speaker. It is a multi-room music system, with software you have licensed from the manufacturer, and for which you do not have a lifetime expectation of support. Next time, read your agreement before clicking "Install".
This is a really interesting time capsule with many posters coming close to predicting how this would play out.
And then there's there is others like this gem above ^^^^^^^^^^ 😟
No, it is not a speaker. It is a multi-room music system, with software you have licensed from the manufacturer, and for which you do not have a lifetime expectation of support. Next time, read your agreement before clicking "Install".
This is a really interesting time capsule with many posters coming close to predicting how this would play out.
And then there's there is others like this gem above ^^^^^^^^^^ 😟
What do you mean by ‘gem’? Do you think what jgatie stated is incorrect? It certainly is in regards to the software related statements. As far as it being a speaker, it certainly can’t be simply compared to passive or active speaker that has no streaming and multiroom capabilities built in.
What do you mean by ‘gem’? Do you think what jgatie stated is incorrect? It certainly is in regards to the software related statements. As far as it being a speaker, it certainly can’t be simply compared to passive or active speaker that has no streaming and multiroom capabilities built in.
Leave it be, melvimbe.
I would assume that Sonos would handle things similar to how they have in the past. Sonos let customers know through various channels months in advance when the CR100 was no longer getting service. The implementation of airplay 2 is an example of how they will communicate how new features will only be available on certain products.
Of course, they may not always no things with enough certainty to announce changes as early as customers would like, and some customer will disagree with the changes regardless.
Of course, they may not always no things with enough certainty to announce changes as early as customers would like, and some customer will disagree with the changes regardless.
Yes, it appears they are going for that market, which might be the correct one. But it seems like I would still be throwing in things for us multi-room users! If that market doesn't see multi-room as the biggest selling feature of Sonos and sees echo dots, etc as comparable options then they aren't going to be buying as many. If they buy 3, then you need 6-7 of them to sell the same amount as one of me.
I agree that the Sonos One was more about the voice control crowd than multiroom, since there is already a play 1, but I do think the Beam is also for multiroom. It does fit a space for small/medium spaces where you want your tv audio to integrate with your system. I also think it's worth noting that Sonos put a lot of effort into the sound quality of the Beam.
I see where they are going and I think its good they have an eye on that market, but that market can easily switch to google or some other speakers once they have some decent multi-room and then Sonos is left squeezed out. Don't see it happening soon, I just don't see the focus on existing customers which I think could be done alongside the new markets.
It's hard to tell what Amazon and Google want long term. They may be fine with Sonos or others selling the speakers as long as they sell the services on the speakers. Apple has always preferred closed systems, and the Homepod is clearly geared towards replacing Sonos. I agreed that they are a long way off still.
Partnering in the home automation/ intercom market would be a valuable field, love to use my speakers as doorbells, intercoms, etc. I see these type of apps etc but they are done by side programmers. A little focus there would be great also. Like the guy who had several write ups about using Sonos and tips for using. They hired him, and now ive seen nothing coming from Sonos that looks like he developed it.
I am kind of glad Sonos has stayed mostly out of home automation. As in stands now, home automation is a big mess. I currently have 3 different hubs/applications where I can write different routines, all with different capabilities, to get what I want done. I don't Sonos to get involved with that. That said you can control Sonos from a variety of smart hubs and apps. I've heard of others doing doorbells through Smartthings with Sonos, they it does appear to require some know-how to do it.
I do process control and the primary vendor I program with, for years watched another guy then company write tools for their software. They could have easily got together a team and created the same software in 3 months and just a handful of people. But never saw the market. All their customers ended up buying it for 50000K plus annual support contract revenue. They eventually had to buy them spending many millions when they could have created for less than 100K.
Just hope Sonos can still see that side of the business and keep it going or I think they will be overcome. Sonos is better than anybody in the multi-room market because of their initial excellence in the field and still are. But it seems like they are just taking it for granted.
I guess I see it more as them being ahead of the market in this area, and currently focusing where they fear they could lose ground to competitors.
If they do what apple did, where there are not more updates, but you still have access to all the features you have. It will be okay for older play devices. Since you can not add the new features like alexa, ap2 or HDMI ARC to them anyways.
Userlevel 7
+22
Considering the lack of love shown to Sonos over the CR-100 trashing I don't expect them to drop anything other than the CR-200 any time soon.
Wife is still refusing to touch our Sonos gear until she gets a browser based controller, no phone, no tablets, no Mac, no Windows in her plans.
Wife is still refusing to touch our Sonos gear until she gets a browser based controller, no phone, no tablets, no Mac, no Windows in her plans.
The Play:5 (1st gen) was discontinued about two years ago nonetheless it's still supplied with firmware updates and upgrades. Sorry, I don't get your point.
How do you do that when Sonos now insists on updating or withdraws your ability to use the system by disabling functionality?
I am sure that Sonos and other similar companies have covered themselves in the licence agreements we all consent to when LICENCING these products from Sonos (we do not buy them). Something else that is not made utterly transparent in the very slick marketing.
Sonos is no longer insisting you update. You can opt out of updates if you have legacy devices.
Always smart to do that when consideingr a purchase that you hope to last a long time.
But to discontinue one speaker and forcing me to purchase a new speaker to keep the ecosystem that might be discontinued shortly as well ?
Sonos has not don anything remotely similar to this in their entire history. Other companies have done similar, but not Sonos. Isn't jumping the gun a little bit to suggest that this is now the new MO?
Just had a post pulled, probably for telling some invonvenient truths about this….hope it is only being checked before being posted
Profanity will get your post pulled, as stated in the TOS.
Userlevel 7
The OP (and others) should understand that just because a product will no longer receive updates or direct support does not mean it will no longer function. For example the Playbar, Play 1, Play 3 will not natively accept Alexa voice commands nor are they natively capable of Airplay 2. However, I can command Alexa via a SonosOne to play music on a Playbar.
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
The Gen1 Play 5 had to be replaced with the Gen2 Play 5 otherwise Sonos would have fell behind the curve to offer a sonically competitive product versus other wireless (and wired) speakers.
Finally, everything reaches EOL cycle but it doesn't mean they should be tossed. I just resurrected (after 8 years in storage) a Sony DA777ES receiver (with no HDMI capabilities) to run a set of Definitive B5 bi-polar speakers and a end-table size Definitive Sub so I could incorporate a Sonos Connect. I'll probably opt for the new Sonos Amp when released in February 2019; but for now the Sony DA777ES is the go to solution.
Cheers!
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
The Gen1 Play 5 had to be replaced with the Gen2 Play 5 otherwise Sonos would have fell behind the curve to offer a sonically competitive product versus other wireless (and wired) speakers.
Finally, everything reaches EOL cycle but it doesn't mean they should be tossed. I just resurrected (after 8 years in storage) a Sony DA777ES receiver (with no HDMI capabilities) to run a set of Definitive B5 bi-polar speakers and a end-table size Definitive Sub so I could incorporate a Sonos Connect. I'll probably opt for the new Sonos Amp when released in February 2019; but for now the Sony DA777ES is the go to solution.
Cheers!
I'm not a Sonos employee so I don't have knowledge of what is to come. However, the only Sonos speaker I see on the endangered species list (i.e. no longer produced) is the Play 1 as The Sonos One is a logical successor. Therefore spending the extra $50-USD to me is worth it to future proof my Sonos system. The Play 3 is questionable; but still offers some advantages over a Sonos One. The Playbar IMO is the only Sonos speaker without a clear successor (to date) because of placement versatility versus the Playbase and sonic capacities versus the Beam.
Actually, the Connect:amp appears to be the next product to no longer be for sale. From Ryan on the Sonos amp intor thread:
With the introduction of the new Sonos Amp, we will no longer be selling the Connect:Amp. We will continue to support Connect:Amp through ongoing software updates as part of the Sonos system for the many people who already have one at home.
It does look the play:3 is on longer being sold as well since it's not available at many locations. The play:1 seems to be surviving since it's still available a year after the Sonos One was release. I can see where it still has a place in the ecosystem for those who have no desire for voice control and/or in use as surround speakers
Just had a post pulled, probably for telling some invonvenient truths about this….hope it is only being checked before being posted
Profanity will get your post pulled, as stated in the TOS.
Didn’t use any profanity. Did I say I did that?
Userlevel 7
Actually, the Connect:amp appears to be the next product to no longer be for sale. From Ryan on the Sonos amp intor thread:
It does look the play:3 is on longer being sold as well since it's not available at many locations. The play:1 seems to be surviving since it's still available a year after the Sonos One was release. I can see where it still has a place in the ecosystem for those who have no desire for voice control and/or in use as surround speakers
I agree about the Connect:AMP being 86'd. However, I was more focused on actual Sonos speakers. It's a Sonos call...but the Play 3 (sonic capacities aside vs. the Sonos One) IMO has some worth regarding positioning. I'd prefer to see a successor for it mush in the same way as the Play 5 (Gen1 to Gen2). A smaller speaker (vs. Play 5) with good punch for horizontal and vertical positioning is still a good idea.
I replaced my Play 1's x 4 (sold em' on ebay @ $145 each before they were officially discounted) with Sonos One's as I can just turn of the Alexa microphone. However, that was a personal decision as I suspected Sonos (and retailers) would discount them after the launch of the One)
Cheers!
Userlevel 7
+22
The Play 1 is cheaper to use as a surround speaker, lowering the cost of a 5.1 system a bit so it may hang around.
As much as I love my Play 3 pair if I was shopping today I'd be hard pressed to justify the cost over paired Play 1s on the basis of the sound delivered.
As much as I love my Play 3 pair if I was shopping today I'd be hard pressed to justify the cost over paired Play 1s on the basis of the sound delivered.
Didn’t use any profanity. Did I say I did that?
Didn’t say you did, just relaying the rule.
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