I just read this about your recent SEC filing:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/11/17559380/sonos-airplay-2-support-software-update-download
“We expect that in the near to intermediate term, this backward compatibility will no longer be practical or cost-effective, and we may decrease or discontinue service for our older products,” says Sonos in a recent SEC filing.
When will you let customers know about which products will be affected by this discontinuation plan? Clearly you know internally since you say in the near to immediate term this policy is going ahead. I presume for example the first gen Play 5 you no longer sell will be affected and the old Sonos Bridge.
The problem for those of us using speakers with online services such as Spotify probably means once API changes are made by the service provider, we'll almost certainly be shut out from using those services with our older Sonos speakers.
There's nothing particularly shocking about this. I'm curious what the plan is though and when we'll be told.
Discontinuing service and software updates for older legacy Sonos speakers?
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Sonos is not a speaker, so expecting it to be like a speaker is nonsense. Sonos is an integrated multi-room music streamer, with significant reliance on an external ecosystem which includes things like cloud services, streaming services, voice services, etc. To expect 13+ year old technology to operate within this ecosystem in perpetuity is not only unrealistic, it is foolish. To expect it to be like the old pair of Advents you bought back in 1972 is downright absurd.
Furthermore, to expect Sonos to continually support every software/firmware release which occurs prior to an older unit no longer being supported is also unrealistic. Sonos is a for profit company, and how much profit is to be made if they waste manpower on a configuration which will eventually lose most if not all functionality, for a forever dwindling user base, who by definition will never buy another Sonos device? Answer: Not much.
Pardon me but Sonos calls their products “speakers”.
Would have no problem with this if across very webpage and ad that Sonos (and every other company offering similar ‘ecosystems’), presents to the buying public it was very prominently made clear that it was “a licenced hardware ecosystem reliant on ongoing hardware support which will eventually inevitably be withdrawn as specific hardware is deemed by Sonos to have become obsolete for whatever reason”, even if on a ‘long’ life cycle.
They don’t do that because they know that if they did, their market (and the whole market for similar systems) would not have grown to the extent it has. Such conditions will no doubt be buried within the small print of the licence but they know that no-one reads that when looking at the glossy ads or are in an outlet about to purchase.
I have two Sonos systems in different locations and one of those, in a large urban location with a lot of wifi competition, the signal, with or without a boost, is not strong enough to serve data fast enough to all speakers around the house concurrently and this one is a only an 8 speaker system although I can only get up to 3 speakers to work concurrently without dropouts. Something else the “up to 32 devices claim ” and “stream...[wirelessly] all around your home” advertising fails to highlight.
In the other rural location with different layout Sonos works pretty well - but the knowledge that this is always on a knife edge and can still encounter regular blips, spoils the whole thing.
Having invested heavily I will do the best I can with the speakers I have and will adapt to get them to work for as long as possible but I have now decided that I will buy no more. I might even resort to wiring some of them but that sort of defeats the obviously major selling point of a ‘wireless’ system.
These are the conceits of this model of music ‘delivery’.
At some point I suspect I’ll be going back to the old way of doing things probably with a number of Brennan B2’s or somesuch, around the house and my Sonos components will, one by one, gradually be added to a large scrapheap.
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That's a good point. The Play 3 probably has very similar hardware capabilities to the first gen Play 5. Their recent blog piece did specifically call out the Play:1 and Play:3 as not having enough horsepower for Airplay 2, so could be an indication of their thinking.
We don't really know which products they intend to drop support for anyway. They are not saying. We just know they have told investors there is a plan to potentially drop support for some older products.
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Speaking of, does Sonos still update the firmware on the original Play:5? If so, that's not bad for a speaker that came out 9 years ago. And I just found out they still update the Play:3 which is 7 years old. My old iPad Mini was only 4 years old when it couldn't take the newest update. Probably not the best comparison, but gives a general idea.
Yes they do it just got an update this week.
This sounds like standard cautionary notes in an SEC filing, and is, indeed, in the "Risk Factors" part of their filing. If you browse filings from ANY technology company you're likely to see similar language. I wouldn't be too terribly worried about it. As many of already observed, probably more likely a note that refers to the ability to support new features like AirPlay 2.
Userlevel 3
+4
It's a speaker - whilst I don't expect it to get new facilities, I do expect it to carry on doing all that it was bought for indefinitely...
I expected that when I bought Windows XP! LOL
...I will not bin my old products, so will just stay on the older os with the ‘legacy’ units until sonos try to kill my system, and then they will be facing a legal case……..
How do you do that when Sonos now insists on updating or withdraws your ability to use the system by disabling functionality?
I am sure that Sonos and other similar companies have covered themselves in the licence agreements we all consent to when LICENCING these products from Sonos (we do not buy them). Something else that is not made utterly transparent in the very slick marketing.
It's a speaker - whilst I don't expect it to get new facilities, I do expect it to carry on doing all that it was bought for indefinitely...
No, it is not a speaker. It is a multi-room music system, with software you have licensed from the manufacturer, and for which you do not have a lifetime expectation of support. Next time, read your agreement before clicking "Install".
Userlevel 2
+1
I haven't read the other replies to your post, but I noticed Sonos is completely sold out of Play: 3 in both colors. It looks like they are possibly phasing this out, and the Play: 1 will be next; the Play One is it's replacement. I just purchased Playbar and now think I should have waited since a newer version may be on its way. I don't see the Beam as a replacement, it's too small. I feel like the lack of HDMI on Playbar and use of Toslink limits its capabilities. I don't know if they will make an adapter eventually because I'm not sure if Sonos made Playbar future proof.
Just had a post pulled, probably for telling some invonvenient truths about this….hope it is only being checked before being posted
Didn’t use any profanity. Did I say I did that?
Didn’t say you did, just relaying the rule.
Thanks but irrelevant to my post and do not appreiciate the implication in your reply. I am perferctly able to express an opinion, that happened to be agreeing with yours, without profanity.
Ahh no, my post critiqued yours so that’s why your false implication….:)
I have no idea what you are talking about, I never saw your post. I merely stated that the only reason I know of that gets posts deleted is profanity. No implications, just fact.
Ahh no, my post critiqued yours so that’s why your false implication….:)
I have no idea what you are talking about, I never saw your post. I merely stated that the only
It's a speaker - whilst I don't expect it to get new facilities, I do expect it to carry on doing all that it was bought for indefinitely...
No, it is not a speaker. It is a multi-room music system, with software you have licensed from the manufacturer, and for which you do not have a lifetime expectation of support. Next time, read your agreement before clicking "Install".
jgatie, why are you usually the bully in the room?
I just received the “notice of old equipment” email and ½ of my 18 Sonos products will be officially UN-supported soon. Tragic amount of e-waste as a potential result with their “trade-up” program. Too bad my old, now bricked C100 will be part of that waste stream as well - or??? (see pic) hehe
It's a speaker - whilst I don't expect it to get new facilities, I do expect it to carry on doing all that it was bought for indefinitely...
No, it is not a speaker. It is a multi-room music system, with software you have licensed from the manufacturer, and for which you do not have a lifetime expectation of support. Next time, read your agreement before clicking "Install".
jgatie, why are you usually the bully in the room?
Had another reply to jgatie pulled for moderation by Sonos, probably due to length. We’ll see.
But would add to comment by kassey22000 that by the time you are clicking on install it is to late as you have bought the system by then.
Funny how bullies don’t get their posts pulled.
from the number of replies looks like jgatie spends more time here than listening to Sonos….is jgatie a Sonos person?
Now that is a very helpful reply. Thank you. Hadn’t noticed as I’d given up thinking about it and resigned myself to being controlled by Sonos.
Do we though get the chance to roll back to software that doesn’t include all the vocie activated control stuff when not needed? And what if I’ve updated before realising that I could opt out? Don’t think that was made very obvious. I certainly missed the announcement. So if I potentially hobble my whole Sonos system by rejecting updates for reason of ‘legacy’ devices that I may want to use in future, does that mean I will be able to use my old Connect?
I could answer your questions, but I choose not to because you’ve spent most of this thread insulting me.
And Sonos employees are marked as such.
Userlevel 7
+17
Speakers that are on the same software should work together. Are all your speakers on S1 (since you own a PLay:5 Gen1 that is the only software they all will work on)?
It's a speaker - whilst I don't expect it to get new facilities, I do expect it to carry on doing all that it was bought for indefinitely...
I expected that when I bought Windows XP! LOL
The basic task of a speaker is such that they last decades and quite hionestly work just as well as they ever did. Sonos is sold as a ‘speaker’.
It is sold as a smart speaker, or more accurately a whole home audio system. It’s the smart, computer aspect of the devices that doesn’t stand the test of time the way a passive or active speaker would.
I am in shock! End of software update for older Sonos speakers.
I have been very loyal customer for several years and I have multiple different speakers. Gen1 and Gen2.. For example three PLAY:5 GEN 1 speakers! + New models and sonos one, three etc..
I have been paying thousands of euros about my system. I have been getting many new customers for Sonos also because I've been telling how nice system Sonos is. I have been very loyal and good customer all the time.
Now... I am almost speechless... Is this even legal that you will pay very much about your speakers and in few years later you cant use those at all??
If this is really the road Sonos wants to go then this will be the end of the road for me. It will be 101% sure I will not buy any New products anymore from Sonos. How could I buy because I dont know when those new products are again useless?
And please dont tell me about Iphones, this is not a phone and you can still use an old phone, its not useless even if you will not get the lates updates anymore.
I will start buying speakers from Genelec or some where else if this is the way Sonos will end software updates. I know something also about the business world and if your most loyal customers will get very unhappy then your business is in big trouble. There is many good example about this in the past. You still have a second option.
Userlevel 2
the same worries here, looking at over £2000 to “update” to the same functionality I have now. I dont use voice activated (amazon or google) so no benefit to me at all ……..
The big question is whether you will still be able to add new hardware to the system after May ...eg a new room or a playbar ……. or a software update after moving home …… or (who knows?) and still connect to the legacy system. If not I will have to rething my sonos future, and will be looking elsewhere.
Any views?
thanks
(pissed off in Brighton)
1 x connect, 3 x connect amps, 1 x play 5, 1 x play3, 2 x ones, ……..….…. expensive
None of mine are smart in the sense of voice control. My sub is not ‘smart’, the Play 1’s are not ‘smart’, the play 3s are not ‘smart’. I am sure Sonos had the plans in train for integrated vocie control etc but was not mentioned at all when I first bought the bulk of my kit.
Don’t think we had even heard of Alexa and certainly not in the context of Sonos.
Do your speakers group together? Can you move music from one to another? Can you control them via a computer or mobile device? Do they receive updates from the internet? Are they built on top of a computer operating system, specifically Linux? Do they include a music services API that lets music services connect with and play over the speakers? Do they also have an control API to allow 3rd party devices and software to control the speakers?
If you answered ‘Yes’ to any of the above (Hint: The answer is ‘Yes’ to all of them), then they are smart speakers, not just speakers.
OK. So an expensive mistake then investing heavily in something ostensibly offering perceived build and audio quality for something that is essentially throwaway. Not very green either. Hey ho.
The big question is whether you will still be able to add new hardware to the system after May ...eg a new room or a playbar ……. or a software update after moving home …… or (who knows?) and still connect to the legacy system. If not I will have to rething my sonos future, and will be looking elsewhere.
OK. So an expensive mistake then investing heavily in something ostensibly offering perceived build and audio quality for something that is essentially throwaway. Not very green either. Hey ho.
Not throwaway at all. Your Sonos is going to work on May 20th the exact same way it worked on May 19th. Where are you getting the idea that you need to throw it away?
As I posted before….
‘Not a speaker’ although marketed as such, certainly when I bought most of mine (and still called ‘speakers’ in advertising and on the website). When I bought mine I was not aware of the plans for making Sonos into a ‘smart’ speaker product. That would have put me off, as would the idea that I would not be able to continue using those I bought as purely speakers for multi-room audio. The Sonos sales blurb! Still!
You seem to be stuck on this idea that a speaker isn't smart unless it has voice control, that Sonos products were something other than smart, or that legacy products will still receive functional updates/upgrades if it were not for voice control?
You are correct that Sonos not always place the word ‘smart’, or ‘wireless’ in front of speaker when talking about thier products. They have also never referred to them as ‘dumb’, ‘passive’, or even ‘active’ either. I don’t know why any one assume that these speakers where just like any other speaker based on the functionality they have. I can see why someone where thinking that it would have a longer life then it does, and be disappointed at that, but the same life as a passive speaker? I’m not seeing that logic.
Not always a multi-room wireless system either. Depends on the construction and layout of your house and also the competition from neighbouring wifi signals, not just your own. That is only becoming more of a problem as more connected devices are being marketed. I’d like to see the 32 device systems working and in what scenarios!
Not sure what you’re point is here. Yes, some locations won’t work as well wirelessly due to interference and distances.
I advise anyone thinking of Sonos to exercise caution now.
Now? I would exercise caution, some thought, before purchasing anything.
Before all the smart speaker thing and endless updates, some enforced, I was enthusiastically recommending Sonos. Anyone who only wants one or two speakers, in fairly close proximity without much competition for the wireless signals is probably okay. Going the whole hog multi-room thing though can be more problematical. And an expensive mistake if they are also going to stop working at some point. Sonos just doesn’t get that if people spend a lot of money on a quality audio system, their current enjoyment of it is impaired with a sword of damocles in the form of withdrawal of support hanging over them. If it’s going to be a throwaway product ditch the quality and make it cheaper. Decide what the market is for pete’s sake and stop trying to have it both ways. Or provide both!!
Sonos stated that legacy items will continue to get support in the form of bug fixes where it’s physically possible give the hardware limitations. They will not receive regular updates that including functionality changes. It is not a throw away product I agree thought that customers should understand that the products will not last forever, not as long as a more analog setup of speakers and amps, and factor that in to their decision.
My decision hasn’t changed following the CEO’s email which contains a lot of get outs and was probably just as much a shareholder pacification exercise. I won’t be buying anymore until Sonos proves it’s committment to its existing customers and hardware that can work perfectly well to deliver good audio without all the flummery that is probably usign all the memory and processing power! Look where the ebook market it going. It’s quite possible voice control will go the same way.
Not really following what you’re saying here. Again, come May, Sonos legacy products are still supported with bug fixes within limitations of the hardware. I have no idea where the ebook market is going and therefore where you think voice control is going.
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