In the aftermath of the CR100 debacle it may be helpful to discuss the direction and methods taken by Sonos management to achieve their end goal of retiring the CR100 by force and the impact on and perception of customers future buying decisions
They still have not made it clear in any believable way why they forced this issue which leaves many people puzzled and angry at the rendering useless of their legally owned equipment.
Personally , this is a first for me . I have never owned a product previously that I have bought that has been rendered useless by the creators period,. Far less easy to swallow is the subterfuge of the battery non issue to cover an ulterior motive. This makes the company Sonos look untrustworthy at best . If you have a reason for doing this , spit it out and let people know. I believe that I, as the purchaser gets to decide when it is time to retire my own possession. I have a belief that quality equipment that was sold as a quality product to prospective buyers should be subject to end of life decision only by the buyer and no one else.
I struggle with the management decisions taken that force me to re-evaluate my investment in their goods within my home.
Prior to the CR100 execution , I viewed my home audio system as an asset to my home , something that simply worked and worked well with minimal intervention required from me which is pretty much what I expect from audio equipment . Now I view the lifespan of this investment as something which looks like is beyond my control even if the equipment is still functioning regardless of my desire to maintain that .
The support aspect of this situation where Sonos staff went into hiding and avoided direct questions from concerned customers has to go down as a low point in any companies record in dealing with their best ambassadors.
These are just a few points that caused me to raise this topic for discussion regarding the ethicacy and morality and integrity of the current Sonos operation...any one of the the issues I have listed above would make Sonos or any other company ineligible for consideration for future investment either in business or in domestic life for this individual.
What do others think....? Please keep the thread social.
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This thread is NOT meant to be about the CR100, it is about the Ethics, Morals and the Integrity of a companies Core Values as displayed by their actions.
In Sonos's case we can look back over a number of years and with the benefit of hindsight look at what has happened, the reasons given at the time and actual results that can be seen years later. This cannot be done just a few weeks after an event.
Can you elaborate on "what has happened" in the past that has been enlightened when you "look back over a number of years and with the benefit of hindsight"? Also what incidents have there been that "reasons given" were at odds with "results that can be seen years later"? Specifics, facts, actual incidents; no speculation please.
Why am I not the least surprised that you and jgatee would be ok with this. I bet you would even thank them for the voucher and opportunity to spend more money as you both pretty much argued in the other thread. Religious devotion. Laying the ground work for brickening #2 are we? :8
Chris wrote:
I buy very little I expect will last me over 10 years.
Hi Chris
Looking at your tag line that you seem proud of, there are many others that own equipment that dates back way further than you despite your Sonus disciple position. I would counsel that others have greater expectation from major purchases than you. It would seem that the religious fervour attached to this brand by the long term dwellers of this forum naturally overcomes common sense. I am glad that you have something to cling to , I don't frequent forums generally , it has been interesting and I hoped to learn something about business and decisions and technology moving forward.
This hasn't happened for me , but I have learned that when you have a pre disposed group like exists on this forum there is little to be gained in discussion.
The most interesting thing is most likely that Sonus management who will read this stuff will gain more intellectually from the people who discuss the serious issues rather than the blind allegiance exhibited by the handful of people who inhabit this wasteland.....
I buy very little I expect will last me over 10 years.
Hi Chris
Looking at your tag line that you seem proud of, there are many others that own equipment that dates back way further than you despite your Sonus disciple position. I would counsel that others have greater expectation from major purchases than you. It would seem that the religious fervour attached to this brand by the long term dwellers of this forum naturally overcomes common sense. I am glad that you have something to cling to , I don't frequent forums generally , it has been interesting and I hoped to learn something about business and decisions and technology moving forward.
This hasn't happened for me , but I have learned that when you have a pre disposed group like exists on this forum there is little to be gained in discussion.
The most interesting thing is most likely that Sonus management who will read this stuff will gain more intellectually from the people who discuss the serious issues rather than the blind allegiance exhibited by the handful of people who inhabit this wasteland.....
Start "discussion" topic expecting an echo chamber of like minded people, complain when an actual discussion breaks out, attack those who do not echo in the echo chamber. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Userlevel 5
+5
Dogs have an average lifespan of 15 years. In reality, some get sick and die sooner; some live much longer, into their 20's and even 30's. How would you feel if you brought your healthy 16 year old dog to the vet to get some flea treatment and the vet told you that he was going to be put down because he's outlived his useful lifespan? How ethically moral is it for the vet to do this against your wishes?
Good question nyCecilia.
It depends really....If the dog in question's name was Sonos then it would only have a max life expectancy of 10 years anyway.
However my clairvoyant pal advises me that he sees no reason why the vet wouldn't give me a voucher.
Caveat is though you can only spend the voucher with the vet.....
So everybody happy again in Sonos Land...?? Obviously with the exception of the dog formerly known as Sonos....
There you go boys sorted that pesky little post out for you all FOC so you can relax and breathe easy again......
It depends really....If the dog in question's name was Sonos then it would only have a max life expectancy of 10 years anyway.
However my clairvoyant pal advises me that he sees no reason why the vet wouldn't give me a voucher.
Caveat is though you can only spend the voucher with the vet.....
So everybody happy again in Sonos Land...?? Obviously with the exception of the dog formerly known as Sonos....
There you go boys sorted that pesky little post out for you all FOC so you can relax and breathe easy again......
Yeah, good luck find a lawyer to take on a class action for a couple hundred claimants, lol. Not gonna happen. Oh, BTW, this thread ISN'T about the CR100, lol.
First Post? Welcome to Sonos Forum, sorry about the harsh comments above but that is how things are here!
As others have said there is a "Save CR100" thread if that is what you wish to discuss and "treating others as you would like to be treated" is always a good starting point., much as I might agree that someone at Sonos should be held accountable for some of the questionable decisions Sonos have taken over the years, name calling (however mild) is not really all that helpful.
Welcome all the same 😃
Does anyone else find it a little ironic that people want to come to a Sonos funded and supported site to openly discuss legal action against Sonos? Maybe it's just me, but I would probably want to find a different way to organize my case.
I think you're going to have a hard time proving that. Even then, like all companies, the only reason Sonos exists is to make money.
What changed from prior release when CR100 worked to now when CR100 is a brick? Investing thousands of dollars in Sonos allowing the company to grow only to be screwed. My CR100's worked great no issues., The BOZO that made this decision should be fired!
If it turns out to be as bad a decision as you believe it is, I imagine there will be a lot more happening then just one person getting fired.
I asked to talk with someone at the company about the disregard of a loyal user. NO ONE AVALIABLE.
To tell you what exactly? Sonos has already stated why they are doing this. Do you just want someone to vent to?
It sounds like you aren't aware of the other threads that are dealing with this exact same topic...repeatedly. You might want to go look at the "Save the CR100" thread if you really want to get a ton of various opinions on the topic.
I think a mountain is being made out of a molehill by a very few people, who as it is, have been justly compensated for a piece of electronics that was kept functioning far past its intended lifespan, and had been limping along in functionality for years now. I also feel that if people were truly as put out and damaged, and Sonos was as unethical, immoral and lacking in core values as they claim, there would have been a class action lawsuit by now. Despite the many and varied threats to start one, I see nothing of the sort taking place.
On the other hand, Sonos could have handled the announcement better. They stumbled there. Not that perfect PR would have stopped the onslaught from the very few, yet very, very verbose and prolific posters in the "Save the CR100" thread; Sonos should not have given them more ammo than they needed.
Just my 2 cents.
PS - In before this gets merged into the CR100 thread where it belongs.
On the other hand, Sonos could have handled the announcement better. They stumbled there. Not that perfect PR would have stopped the onslaught from the very few, yet very, very verbose and prolific posters in the "Save the CR100" thread; Sonos should not have given them more ammo than they needed.
Just my 2 cents.
PS - In before this gets merged into the CR100 thread where it belongs.
As of July Apple is going to render ALL devices not running iOS 11 useless, including said iPod Touch.
Let's start with an example when Sonos lied to you.
Your understandig of the term "lie" is quite odd.
Prior to the CR100 execution , I viewed my home audio system as an asset to my home , something that simply worked and worked well with minimal intervention required from me which is pretty much what I expect from audio equipment . Now I view the lifespan of this investment as something which looks like is beyond my control even if the equipment is still functioning regardless of my desire to maintain that .
discussion regarding the ethicacy and morality and integrity of the current Sonos operation...any one of the the issues I have listed above would make Sonos or any other company ineligible for consideration for future investment either in business or in domestic life for this individual.
As to the titled questions:
1. I have never used the CR100, but I find it a little hard to believe that the present model free controllers are so bad compared to it, that the lifespan of the investment in Sonos is affected. Sonos has sold millions of units since they stopped making/selling the CR100, as evidence of this.
2. Even if the lack of morality was to be stipulated, one would be cutting ones nose to spite ones face by not buying more Sonos kit for JUST this reason, unless one found some other maker that behaved differently and also offered all the Sonos features at the same price point. This also isn't like blood diamonds, surely. Or like using underaged labour in third world locations.
Userlevel 7
+21
Ah so this is just another CR100 thread then 😞
That's already been discussed exhaustive in the 'Save the CR100' thread. So, why the new approach – for your amusement only?
Short memory Smilja.?
Let's start with an example when Sonos lied to you.
You asked me for an example of when Sonos lied. I gave you one.
I was hoping to discuss underlying reasons for decisions made and how they affect the consumer and not try to regurgitate the CR100 thread. However your request for an example of a lie to their customer base and your response to me providing the example is taking the thread straight back into the area that we should avoid.
There's no new approach for my amusement. I am far from amused. If you cannot grasp any of the concepts listed in the title of the thread and contribute meaningfully without asking for examples of, to use your own words, things that have been "discussed exhaustive" in the CR100 thread then its probably time for you to re read the posts above and try to understand the point of this thread as separate from the Save the CR100 thread.
Kumar, I agree with much of your post about the throwaway nature of consumer products these days.
I have never had to consider whether my product's life span will be ended by me or by the manufacturer before this event but now it is clear that I will have to evaluate that in future buying decisions.
I first bought Sonos in 2005 I think and have expanded it steadily since then installing in multiple homes and in different countries. When I initially bought the system ,forced obsolescence of the product by the manufacturer itself was not even considered. I like you had previously come from traditional audio systems that just trundle on regardless.
In my initial post I mentioned that this was a first for me to have a manufacturer kill its own product , which for me and others has been a disturbing occurrence raising questions that previously did not exist for me.
I don't inhabit these forums , I am only here because of an action thrust on me, previously I was a happy customer now I am not.
I accept that things move along, technology changes and Sonos must move and stay current but it seems to me that they have placed whatever the goal was in retiring the CR100 ahead of their integrity.
The long term dwellers on this board seem unable or unwilling to address that particular aspect of this debate. I don't understand the devout nature of that position and what the motivation is for such a zeal attached to a manufacturer.
I hope not!!
Sonos have moved their position in the market over the years as you would expect any company to do. But there does seem to be a pattern emerging that makes me feel uncomfortable at times. Going back many years these very forums where changed because, we were advised at the time, of scalability and to make the "user experience" better.
Many forum members offered suggestions and comments (e.g. please bring back a "post preview" option) on the changes but no action was made to accommodate them other than the now familiar "we are listening and your views are important to us".
Roll forward to today and this forum is still a shadow of its formal self, much harder to use as an exchange of ideas and search through, BUT arguably better (than the original forum and "Ask Sonos") for new users who have set-up issues. Back in 2005 there were very few set-up questions on the original forum, but as the Sonos offering evolved so did the complexity of setting things up (SoundBar was so hard that there was a dedicated help-line and very good they were too!). With hindsight you could put forward the argument that Sonos were therefore correct to change the forum even against the desire of the then current user base notwithstanding that the whole look, feel and use of the forum was changed.
So was the aim of that "update" to the original forum to give the users a "better experience" (as advised at the time) or to allow for better set-up solving for new Sonos users (which Sonos knew would become more important over time)?
If the latter, was Sonos morally right not to give the real reason? :?
Userlevel 7
+5
Have you read through this topic? Be prepared, you won't be able to re-install older apps as well.
Well, really not relevant... - my ipod touch is a music storage & playback device... it's not even on my WiFi - which I believe does reach the garage, so perhaps I can connect it up & see if I can get any streaming service or internet radio players to run on it... if I can, great, if not... who cares, it has some 500+ tracks on it now, and when I get time I'll increase that to a couple of thousand or so...
It sits there, offline, always charging, with enough music on it to be left in repeat-shuffle mode that I can go weeks without hearing the same song twice, and short of hardware failure of the device, nothing than anyone does or tries to do can affect that functionality...
I don't have, or use any apps on it, other than the built-in OS-level music player, playing my own legally owned music ripped as MP3s & copied onto the device. I expect it to go on serving in its current capacity for many more years to come.
YMMV...
Userlevel 7
+2
I can see why you still feel like you could purchase from Apple again, Apple did not "brick" your IPod Touch, so in my book, the same issue does not apply.
Steve, with your skills, you are well placed to keep old equipment in service, but you must know you are a rare exception. And one that is getting even more rare given the nature of design/construction of modern kit, compared to amps of yesteryear that were more easily repaired with parts that were more easily available. Sonos, as do all other makes, do not have too many like you in their target market. And I doubt you will be differently served by any other make when you decide you need more kit.
As to the iPod touch, it was being used largely as a Sonos Controller host; now I cannot so use it, because it will not access iTunes to get the latest Controller version. So, I can no longer use it in the manner. To me, someone has done the same thing to it as has been done to the CR100.
Kumar,
good points, and I agree, I am not the typical user and am not a revolving buyer of anything. (much to the dismay of my kids who over time never had the "latest and greatest"
as a side note, my repair shop was open in the 80's and 90's, and was shut down as I saw the change of durable goods to disposable goods take place and what was once a $300+ consumer item that anyone would pay $85 to fix became a cheap $65 item and you could not economically fix (VCR's were the perfect example)
NONE of these Sonos items are low cost, and that is another reason why this issue is insulting to some.
in your case, with the Touch, Apple is having to move forward with software for their entire music service, your touch depends on the service to provide the music.
in the CR100, this was a Controller first, and then over time they added streaming services to the CR100 and made the unit much more functional. this was great.
Take away ALL the streaming add-ons they put into the unit and it would STILL be a controller for the base system and for people hosting their own files on their own network.
Your Touch actually depended on a service to operate, the CR100 was the UI for the original system and technically did not.
what (in my opinion) people are missing is these units were $350+ (with the dock) and had a defined purpose. The least Sonos could have done is to remove all the added streaming services and allow those of us with the CR100 to retain the use of the original UI.
the best option would be to allow for a legacy firmware path that would keep us at the ~8.2 level.
I hate to see the end of any good working piece of gear, but in every case it should be my choice, call me a dinosaur......
If the latter, was Sonos morally right not to give the real reason?
Even if the answer to the above is no, morally they were not right, what next? If I needed another play 1, I would still buy one. Wouldn't you?
Although I still think that this community software sucks and the old forum was a much better place for everyone including noob users...
WHAT HAPPEND TO MY POST?
Surely it was not "moderated" ?? It was a lot longer and more thought through that single sentence quoted above!!
Now if my two Connect Amps were to ever be bricked in the coming years by Sonos.......
Interesting take on the controller in regards to the little progress in your point of view.
In one of your other posts in this thread you say you bought Sonos with an expected 5-10 year life span. If they brick your Amps but you got your 5-10 years use would you still be upset? Or Are you making a distinction between bricking and the units failing on their own?
In one of your other posts in this thread you say you bought Sonos with an expected 5-10 year life span. If they brick your Amps but you got your 5-10 years use would you still be upset? Or Are you making a distinction between bricking and the units failing on their own?
The latter; I can live with hardware not lasting for more than 10 years, but not with the bricking of a functional Connect Amp. The former is an act beyond Sonos control and a 10 year life at the price point seems fair with anything more a bonus. I am also OK with Sonos not offering the Trueplay feature for the Connect Amp, while doing so for existing play 1 units.
@TJRL: I noticed that your post went missing about the time I replied to it and I had nothing to do with it:-). Wouldn't have happened on the old forum!
With not getting updated any longer the apps will effectively become obsolete, don't you think? Each time you'll try to run them, you'll probably be prompted to update in order to continue.
Anyway, Apple is one of the more heavy-handed companies in regards to OS upgrades but even it has enough foresight to support at least a previous version as well the current one.
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