Amazon Music HD/UHD Confusion



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there are 2 version of the  Gen 2 Connect. Both are S2 compatible but only the newer version is compatible with Amazon Music Ultra HD . The Latest version of the Gen 2 Connect is the S15 version. B

 

That adds to my confusion. Your link explains the difference, but not the Amazon limitation. It is also isn’t mentioned in the support page (https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3248?language=en_US). Mine is h/w version 1.17.5.5-2.0 so the older Gen 2, C100. It was selected specifically because the support page confirms it isn’t incompatible. Sonos support also stated it was compatible when I chatted with them. I can easily swap this Connect for a newer one though. They are roughly the same price. But even if what you say is true…it also doesn’t explain why I’m not getting UHD on the Ones. I have another internet link and wi-fi network here so I’ll be testing on that next.

there are 2 version of the  Gen 2 Connect. Both are S2 compatible but only the newer version is compatible with Amazon Music Ultra HD . The Latest version of the Gen 2 Connect is the S15 version. B

 

That adds to my confusion. Your link explains the difference, but not the Amazon limitation. It is also isn’t mentioned in the support page (https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3248?language=en_US). Mine is h/w version 1.17.5.5-2.0 so the older Gen 2, C100. It was selected specifically because the support page confirms it isn’t incompatible. Sonos support also stated it was compatible when I chatted with them. I can easily swap this Connect for a newer one though. They are roughly the same price. But even if what you say is true…it also doesn’t explain why I’m not getting UHD on the Ones. I have another internet link and wi-fi network here so I’ll be testing on that next.

As it goes, Sonos support have just now said it doesn’t do UHD. Contradicting themselves from a few days ago and making their support page misleading. However, at least I know why the Connect won’t do UHD...

Stepping back for one moment, how were you intending to connect the Connect to your HiFi? Analog or digital? And were you going to use a Fixed or Variable output level?

The reason I raise this is that the lowest bits of the desired 24-bit depth could have disappeared anyway, either below the DAC’s noise floor or by truncation on the S/PDIF.

Stepping back for one moment, how were you intending to connect the Connect to your HiFi? Analog or digital? And were you going to use a Fixed or Variable output level?

The reason I raise this is that the lowest bits of the desired 24-bit depth could have disappeared anyway, either below the DAC’s noise floor or by truncation on the S/PDIF.

It is already connected, via analogue to aux in on my amp. Set up for variable output level currently. You are clearly more knowledgeable than I about the sonic details here. But when all said and done, I’m just a consumer looking for the UHD badge reassurance from the service I’m paying for. I fully agree my hearing isn’t up to the job but I wanted the UHD badge anyway! However, I’m glad I started this thread because it’s now answered my question and can also be found by others. You have all been very helpful. 

The Amazon Music Unlimited service costs the same, whether you listen to UHD, HD, or SD. So with or without the UHD badge you wouldn’t be losing out.

And, given the practical resolution of the Connect’s DAC, the signal-to-noise ratio of the analog stages from there onwards through your amplifier, and the ambient noise levels in the average domestic listening environment, you’d not miss those extra 8 bits anyway. So, my recommendation would be to simply enjoy the music and sleep easy.

You are clearly more knowledgeable than I about the sonic details here. But when all said and done, I’m just a consumer looking for the UHD badge reassurance from the service I’m paying for. I fully agree my hearing isn’t up to the job but I wanted the UHD badge anyway!

I doubt that any of us writing here have unimpaired hearing. 

Once you understand that this UHD thing is a much touted solution to a problem that does not exist, you will stop feeling shortchanged - and getting people to feel this way is the only real thing this entire HD audio thing seems to achieve, more than anything else.

However, swapping out the Connect for the newer S15 version.. has given me closure. I can’t hear the difference FYI :o)

 

So long as the closure does not end if/when the UHD label disappears:-).

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Or when your WiFi channel gets too congested to pass the fatter data-stream required and it either dials back or starts stalling out.

 

I’d love an option in Sonos to not negotiate any stream connection at above CD quality unless nothing else was available.

I’d love an option in Sonos to not negotiate any stream connection at above CD quality unless nothing else was available.

Yeah, that’s been a standard feature of LMS for at least 10 years now. 

Also, the new WiiM Mini features it for the Optical output, which is bit-perfect up to 24/192, and supports casting from the Amazon Music app at HD and UHD in beta, due for production rollout in a couple of weeks.  Also supports Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect and Airplay 2.  Can even be a full-fledged member of Alexa groups.  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

Sounds just the thing for folks that don’t want expensive speakers with bundled smarts, that become obsolete just because the smart tech has moved on to a better place, making the whole speaker obsolete.

PS: Above said, and if one were to look beyond the Hi Res Kool Aid, what will this do that the much cheaper Echo Dot cannot?

  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

Sounds just the thing for folks that don’t want expensive speakers with bundled smarts, that become obsolete just because the smart tech has moved on to a better place, making the whole speaker obsolete.

PS: Above said, and if one were to look beyond the Hi Res Kool Aid, what will this do that the much cheaper Echo Dot cannot?

It has an optical output, which is bit-perfect up to 24/192, to drive a quality DAC. It can also act as a UPnP endpoint at the same bit-perfect resolution, for use with excellent software such as LMS and Audirvana, etc.  It supports AirPlay 2, can be part of an AirPlay 2 group. It supports Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect, so that those can be used with their native apps. It supports Amazon Music HD and UHD from Amazon’s native app, and from Alexa voice control. No more lossy streaming, other than Spotify, for the moment. If Qobuz ever gets around to a Connect, you can bet it will also be supported.  It also has a highly responsive development team, which has its modules and firmware in millions of devices already, including Yamaha sound bars and Edifier smart speakers. In short, Linkplay, the WiiM owner, is not going away anytime soon. 

  It also has a highly responsive development team, which has its modules and firmware in millions of devices already, including Yamaha sound bars and Edifier smart speakers. In short, Linkplay, the WiiM owner, is not going away anytime soon. 

Very interesting; will there be a Big Bang launch event? Soon?

  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

Sounds just the thing for folks that don’t want expensive speakers with bundled smarts, that become obsolete just because the smart tech has moved on to a better place, making the whole speaker obsolete.

PS: Above said, and if one were to look beyond the Hi Res Kool Aid, what will this do that the much cheaper Echo Dot cannot?

It has an optical output, which is bit-perfect up to 24/192, to drive a quality DAC. 

Seems a bit strange then that the user manual says:

Audio Sound Quality

Audio Input: up to 192 kHz, 24-bit

Audio Output: 48 kHz, 16-bit, CD quality

  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

Sounds just the thing for folks that don’t want expensive speakers with bundled smarts, that become obsolete just because the smart tech has moved on to a better place, making the whole speaker obsolete.

PS: Above said, and if one were to look beyond the Hi Res Kool Aid, what will this do that the much cheaper Echo Dot cannot?

It has an optical output, which is bit-perfect up to 24/192, to drive a quality DAC. 

Seems a bit strange then that the user manual says:

Audio Sound Quality

Audio Input: up to 192 kHz, 24-bit

Audio Output: 48 kHz, 16-bit, CD quality

There was a firmware update earlier this year, they probably never got round to updating the manual, you have to scroll down as they have been busy,

https://wiimhome.com/releaseNote

 

There have been firmware updates about every other week for several months. Bit-perfect up to 24/192 has been tested by Amir at ASR, and confirmed by me using the test files provided by RME via my RME DAC. 
 

John Atkinson has confirmed that Stereophile will be testing it soon, unusual for such a low cost device. 

  For $89, there’s finally a device that offers some real competition to Sonos.  Competition is always a good thing.

Sounds just the thing for folks that don’t want expensive speakers with bundled smarts, that become obsolete just because the smart tech has moved on to a better place, making the whole speaker obsolete.

PS: Above said, and if one were to look beyond the Hi Res Kool Aid, what will this do that the much cheaper Echo Dot cannot?

It has an optical output, which is bit-perfect up to 24/192, to drive a quality DAC. 

Seems a bit strange then that the user manual says:

Audio Sound Quality

Audio Input: up to 192 kHz, 24-bit

Audio Output: 48 kHz, 16-bit, CD quality

There was a firmware update earlier this year, they probably never got round to updating the manual, you have to scroll down as they have been busy,

https://wiimhome.com/releaseNote

 

Ah, right.

  It also has a highly responsive development team, which has its modules and firmware in millions of devices already, including Yamaha sound bars and Edifier smart speakers. In short, Linkplay, the WiiM owner, is not going away anytime soon. 

Very interesting; will there be a Big Bang launch event? Soon?

It’s been on Amazon since late September.  It’s already at #10 on the best-sellers list for its category, which unfortunately includes a bunch of cheapo Bluetooth receivers.  Ahead of the Echo Link and other  WiFi streamers, though it’s not an exhaustive list.

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Wireless-Audio-Receivers-Adapters/zgbs/electronics/10110414011

I’m still taken aback by the difference in the average file size for just a 3 minute ALAC lossless audio track encoded at 24/48 and 24/192 audio - I will personally never be able to hear the difference for anything over 16/44 anyway. I’d just be guessing if there was no ‘badge’ to tell me what I was listening to.

So I think all I really need is another App that allows me to change the ‘badge’ on the ‘Now Playing’ screen of whatever App I’m using to play the audio on my Sonos speakers.. ha😀

 

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Went looking for a CD quality chart, not an exact match for the above but close.

 

 

I can see why my SonosNet is happier passing 16 / 44.1 audio than 24 / 96 audio, about 1/3rd the data.

It’s been on Amazon since late September.  It’s already at #10 on the best-sellers list for its category, which unfortunately includes a bunch of cheapo Bluetooth receivers. 

I had a look; since I do not use HD in any form or manner, I don't see it replacing my Echo Dots/Shows that are wired into various Sonos line in jacks. About the only thing that may be of use is the Airplay capability, but even there I don’t see any pressing need since my Spotify app can go one better by casting from the native app to Echo, with album art present where Echo Show is used, and removing itself from the music play as soon as the stream is directed to Echo.

You’re getting lossy streaming that way. The WiiM can, in beta, do lossless streaming from Amazon Music. I personally wouldn’t accept anything less than CD standard lossless FLAC. The CD standard has been around since the 1980s. Why accept anything less?

It also does lossless from Qobuz and Tidal in-app, and Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect from their native apps.  It can participate in Alexa groups, and in AirPlay groups.  Unlike most AirPlay devices, it can do bit-perfect lossless, up to 16/44.1 CD quality, over AirPlay.

BTW, I can visualize anything playing on the WiiM too, using a simple Python script I wrote and a raspberry pi Zero. As it’s a full-fledged Alexa-enabled device, it will also work from a Show, including via voice control - in lossless FLAC, unlike the Dot.  
 

 

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Went looking for a CD quality chart, not an exact match for the above but close.

 

 

I can see why my SonosNet is happier passing 16 / 44.1 audio than 24 / 96 audio, about 1/3rd the data.


 

@Stanley_4these numbers look like mono bitrates to me. Is this table correct?


16 bits per sample x 44,1KHz samples per second = 705.6 Kbps of Mono
16 bits per sample x 44,1KHz samples per second = 705.6 Kbps x 2 channels = 1,411 Kbps Stereo
24 bits per sample x 48 KHz samples per second = 1.152 Kbps x 2 channels =  2,304 Kbps Stereo


I wanted to ask you people, do you hear the difference between HD (16 bit, 44.1 Kbps) and UHD (24 bit, 48 Kbps)? I certainly don't, and that's why I'm perfectly fine with HD.

I wanted to ask you people, do you hear the difference between HD (16 bit, 44.1 Kbps) and UHD (24 bit, 48 Kbps)? I certainly don't, and that's why I'm perfectly fine with HD.

I too am human and from the planet ‘Earth’.😀

Earth

 

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I wanted to ask you people, do you hear the difference between HD (16 bit, 44.1 Kbps) and UHD (24 bit, 48 Kbps)? I certainly don't, and that's why I'm perfectly fine with HD.

I too am human and from the planet ‘Earth’.😀

Earth

 

 

Greetings from Jupiter. Maybe we can learn from each other.