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Why does Sonos force us to update the software?

  • 24 September 2022
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69 replies

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

 

A - HT drops sound at random

B - Controller devices need updates on rare occasions.

I don’t know how you conclude that ‘need for updates’ are causing the drop outs.  The updates are obviously not random but specific events.   And if the controllers rarely need updates, that would mean your HT drop sounds would have to be rare as well.

It does make some sense that doing an update would resolve drop out issues, at least temporarily, The new software may include a bug fix for an issue you’re experiencing.  More likely, updates to firmware will always reboot the device, and get a new IP address from your router. 

But, the idea that some of your controller devices need software updates implies that it’s not a firmware update, just controller update that’s missing.  Your devices would not redo an update every time you bring an app up to date.

Also worth clarifying if the drop outs happen with streaming audio, TV audio, or both.  Either way, the diagnistic and talk to support is the way to go.

 

 

  1. “I don’t know how you conclude that ‘need for updates’ are causing the drop outs.” I conclude this because restarting various components, unplugging things, checking for aTV updates, etc, doesn’t resolve the issue. Only checking every SONOS component and controller in the house - and inevitably finding a pending update - solves the issue. 
  2.  “But, the idea that some of your controller devices need software updates implies that it’s not a firmware update, just controller update that’s missing.  Your devices would not redo an update every time you bring an app up to date.” Please clarify this because I don’t get what you’re saying. 
  3. “Also worth clarifying if the drop outs happen with streaming audio, TV audio, or both.  Either way, the diagnistic and talk to support is the way to go.” The updates happen with any source that applies sound to the Arc, which includes every app on the aTV. 
jgatie

 

 

On the surface it appears to me that Sonos is using service interruptions to force device updates, which might frustrate a person into turning on auto-updates. 

Now, do you have a response to this? Can you withdraw the ‘answered’ tag so maybe more people would stop in? Should I create a new thread? 

 

 

 

Yes, I have a response.  Sonos is not “using service interruptions to force device updates”.  I know this because my brother owns an Arc that he uses solely as a soundbar, and he’s never updated it, aside from when it was first installed over a year ago.  He doesn’t even have the Sonos app on his phone and his Arc works perfectly for TV sound.  

melvimbe

 

My Sonos ARC home theater drops sound at random. We’ve discovered that it means one of our controllers “needs” updating. We have to check every controller in the house (multiple iPhones, two iMacs, an iPad) until we find which one(s) have pending updates. On rare occasions we have device updates pending. We do the update(s), the system starts working again. Sound comes through the home theater. At no point in the ownership of our Playbar home theater did this happen, and I was able to skip years of updates with no problem. This appears as if Sonos is stopping sound from playing in order to force controller and device updates.

 

 

A - HT drops sound at random

B - Controller devices need updates on rare occasions.

I don’t know how you conclude that ‘need for updates’ are causing the drop outs.  The updates are obviously not random but specific events.   And if the controllers rarely need updates, that would mean your HT drop sounds would have to be rare as well.

It does make some sense that doing an update would resolve drop out issues, at least temporarily, The new software may include a bug fix for an issue you’re experiencing.  More likely, updates to firmware will always reboot the device, and get a new IP address from your router. 

But, the idea that some of your controller devices need software updates implies that it’s not a firmware update, just controller update that’s missing.  Your devices would not redo an update every time you bring an app up to date.

Also worth clarifying if the drop outs happen with streaming audio, TV audio, or both.  Either way, the diagnistic and talk to support is the way to go.

 

Danny
Corry P
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

Hi @Forstal 

Due to this topic having had no activity for several days, it was flagged in my workflow as needing a Best Answer.

As you posted in the Ask a Question section, and the only question you asked was “So why the forced update gimmick?”, I marked @jgatie’s response as the Best Answer because it was the best answer to your actual question. Perhaps I was being too literal - apologies.

@jgatie’s latest reply is also accurate - if the TV audio is cutting out, it has absolutely nothing to do with an update being required by a controller, regardless of what you have noticed. Correlation is not causation. I recommend you unplug your TV from power for at least 2 minutes - this usually solves the issue you describe. If it doesn’t, please check that your HDMI cable(s) is/are well-seated.

I hope this helps.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Albert Einstein
F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

In short, they don’t.    Turn off auto udates and reminders for both the hardware and  the app and you won’t even know there is an update.

 

You obviously misunderstood my question, and you probably didn’t see my response because I forgot to quote you. So here’s your quote, and here’s my (more detailed) response summarizing my responses to people misunderstanding the question:

 

The Arc system works. I have auto updates TURNED OFF on the Sonos. I have auto updates TURNED OFF on every single piece of software-driven technology in my home. I can use the Arc all day, several days in a row. Then one day I turn it on and there’s no sound. The first time it happened I messed with all of my display and Apple TV settings at length before trying different controllers (computers, iPhones, iPad) and discovering that some controller in the house had a pending update. I did the update and the Arc started working again. Occasionally its device firmware updates but more often than not its controller updates.

The Arc still drops at random, and its ALWAYS solved by a SONOS update, not an update for any other product in my house. Sometimes we’ll have drops two or three days in a row, and I’ll find that some controller needs an x.point.point update. My prior Playbar home theater never suffered from service interruptions. Even when the controllers were disabled by my refusal to update the devices, I was still able to use the Playbar without a problem. 

On the surface it appears to me that Sonos is using service interruptions to force device updates, which might frustrate a person into turning on auto-updates. 

Now, do you have a response to this? Can you withdraw the ‘answered’ tag so maybe more people would stop in? Should I create a new thread? 

 

 

 

jgatie

Nothing about pending updates can ever stop your Arc from playing sound.  There’s something else at work here.  I suggest you submit a diagnostic and post the reference number here the next time you experience the problem.  

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

It now seems all these replies from us are irrelevant since you now say, “Right now I’m trying to find out if anyone else here is experiencing this” despite your question in your first post being “So why the forced update gimmick?”

Judging from the lack of responses echoing your experience, I’d speculate that: no, it’s just you! 

No, “all these replies” aren’t irrelevant. I could make an exception for your last one though. Your first paragraph there makes zero sense. 

I just re-read the thread from the top just so I could review “all these replies”, and I found that there was a green “ANSWERED” badge, with JGatie’s response receiving 1 ‘upvote’ indicating that this was solved, which I would assume has driven down interest in the thread. Interestingly, his response was completely irrelevant in the context of my question. I wasn’t asking how to prevent updates, I was asking if anyone had experienced service drops that were resolved by point updates to controllers, indicating that the updates were being forced. 

Let me restate it here for posterity:

My Sonos ARC home theater drops sound at random. We’ve discovered that it means one of our controllers “needs” updating. We have to check every controller in the house (multiple iPhones, two iMacs, an iPad) until we find which one(s) have pending updates. On rare occasions we have device updates pending. We do the update(s), the system starts working again. Sound comes through the home theater. At no point in the ownership of our Playbar home theater did this happen, and I was able to skip years of updates with no problem. This appears as if Sonos is stopping sound from playing in order to force controller and device updates.

Now that I have that re-established, please consider that there is a certain logic to gathering the experiences of others before making a service request. And now if no one else is replying due to an “answered” tag on this thread, then does that mean no one else is experiencing this issue? 

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18


How do you “check every single device for “needed” updates until we find the culprit”? If you <Update System> it’s all automatic; I don’t know of a way to just update one speaker in my system. The whole point is that all apps and all speakers need to be running the same versions. And you say “The sound just quits one day”. Again, it’s very strange that you go to the app on your phone, select a music source to stream to a room, and it starts streaming but no sound comes out and there are no error messages to say what’s amiss.  

Have you tried submitting a Diagnostics report to Sonos? What did they tell you was happening? 

 

 

I meant to say “check every controller for needed updates” but in my head I was still thinking about individual devices like my phones, Apple TV, etc. My apologies if I added to the confusion. 

I haven’t done anything as far as Sonos support goes. The humorous side of my brain tells me that contacting them about this will get the response of “well turn on automatic updates, duh!” Right now I’m trying to find out if anyone else here is experiencing this before I approach them. 

It now seems all these replies from us are irrelevant since you now say, “Right now I’m trying to find out if anyone else here is experiencing this” despite your question in your first post being “So why the forced update gimmick?”

Judging from the lack of responses echoing your experience, I’d speculate that: no, it’s just you! 

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3


How do you “check every single device for “needed” updates until we find the culprit”? If you <Update System> it’s all automatic; I don’t know of a way to just update one speaker in my system. The whole point is that all apps and all speakers need to be running the same versions. And you say “The sound just quits one day”. Again, it’s very strange that you go to the app on your phone, select a music source to stream to a room, and it starts streaming but no sound comes out and there are no error messages to say what’s amiss.  

Have you tried submitting a Diagnostics report to Sonos? What did they tell you was happening? 

 

 

I meant to say “check every controller for needed updates” but in my head I was still thinking about individual devices like my phones, Apple TV, etc. My apologies if I added to the confusion. 

I haven’t done anything as far as Sonos support goes. The humorous side of my brain tells me that contacting them about this will get the response of “well turn on automatic updates, duh!” Right now I’m trying to find out if anyone else here is experiencing this before I approach them. 

N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

I have auto updates turned off for every single piece of gear I own. Watches, phones, computers, Apple TV, and Sonos. If you re-read my original post, I’m saying the reason I know there’s an update is that the Arc quits playing sound. Every single time. 

That really sounds like something is updating. It seems strange that it’s only been happening for a couple of months rather than since you started using Sonos: there’s been more than 10 updates in that time. Do you get any error/warning messages? 

No warning messages or errors at all. The sound just quits one day and thats it. We have to check every single device for “needed” updates until we find the culprit. When we do, the Arc starts working again. 


How do you “check every single device for “needed” updates until we find the culprit”? If you <Update System> it’s all automatic; I don’t know of a way to just update one speaker in my system. The whole point is that all apps and all speakers need to be running the same versions. And you say “The sound just quits one day”. Again, it’s very strange that you go to the app on your phone, select a music source to stream to a room, and it starts streaming but no sound comes out and there are no error messages to say what’s amiss.  

Have you tried submitting a Diagnostics report to Sonos? What did they tell you was happening? 

 

 

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

So auto updated are turned off  on whichever app store you use?  I don't think you can turn it off specifically on the Sonos app in the Google Play Store, for example.

Turning off auto updates in the app is not sufficient.

I don’t know about Google, but in iOS I believe automatic updates from the App Store are opt-in. I have all that stuff turned off for years now and my preferences follow me to my next iPhone, so maybe its changed now, but as far as I know its still opt-in. Nothing installs on my phone without my express approval. 

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

Hi

I know many individuals such as yourself are not comfortable with updating their electronics. Without going into another discussion as to why I’ll offer this fact.

Not all updates are for feature enhancement. The majority of updates are to correct flaws or bugs that are sometimes introduced by the previous update itself. Before you say “ah ha” know that all bugs found in a firmware are not pervasive to each device the manufacturer has on the market. Although every device maybe offered the update not all devices will utilize it to full extent. 

For example iOS 16.0.2 is offered for my iPhone 12 but there are specific bug fixes included that my iPhone 12 will ignore as they are intended for the iPhone 14. Also not accepting the update can cause devices to not function properly with apps. The app developer will also behind the scenes make adjustments to their app to work properly with the latest firmware. If the app cannot find the latest version on the device upon which it is installed it too may malfunction. 

Bottom-line…sometimes refusing to accept updates may cause device issues later on. Just food for thought and not offered as a solution to your issues. 

 

I get that, really. But the plain text here is that on my previous Sonos system, which was a Playbar home theater, I skipped dozens of updates including those that forced firmware updates. If I was the customer who bought a couple of Play:1 speakers and set them up in different rooms and I listened to streaming services, then updates might be a thing to do.  After I set the Playbar up and ran the room configuration I never touched the controllers again, ever. There was just no need to.

Then one day I was “tricked” into an update, and once that happened the system was locked until I did all updates including firmware. For anyone who would object and say “No way, Sonos would never do that!” keep in mind that Apple themselves used to do that with iOS. If you skipped an update for any length of time more than what they considered reasonable, on random occasions it would bring up a screen that said something like “Remind Me Later or Enter PIN to Install Update” and then had the keypad underneath it so it looked like a PIN query. Most people were so accustomed to entering their PIN to use their iPhone that they automatically entered the number, and then the phone would go into the update regardless of what the customer wanted, and no way to stop it. 

I know these are different cases. The iPhone handles a lot of personal and sensitive info, and updates are generally a good thing. Generally. And Sonos is just a piece of consumer gear that offers services you may or may not need or want. So I think it makes no sense to force updates on people. And since updates always cure the dropped sound issue on my Arc - whereas nothing else will do that - Occam’s razor suggest that the dropped sound was initiated somewhere in the food chain to beckon me into an update. 

 

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

I have auto updates turned off for every single piece of gear I own. Watches, phones, computers, Apple TV, and Sonos. If you re-read my original post, I’m saying the reason I know there’s an update is that the Arc quits playing sound. Every single time. 

That really sounds like something is updating. It seems strange that it’s only been happening for a couple of months rather than since you started using Sonos: there’s been more than 10 updates in that time. Do you get any error/warning messages? 

No warning messages or errors at all. The sound just quits one day and thats it. We have to check every single device for “needed” updates until we find the culprit. When we do, the Arc starts working again. 

AjTrek1
Userlevel 7

Hi

I know many individuals such as yourself are not comfortable with updating their electronics. Without going into another discussion as to why I’ll offer this fact.

Not all updates are for feature enhancement. The majority of updates are to correct flaws or bugs that are sometimes introduced by the previous update itself. Before you say “ah ha” know that all bugs found in a firmware are not pervasive to each device the manufacturer has on the market. Although every device maybe offered the update not all devices will utilize it to full extent. 

For example iOS 16.0.2 is offered for my iPhone 12 but there are specific bug fixes included that my iPhone 12 will ignore as they are intended for the iPhone 14. Also not accepting the update can cause devices to not function properly with apps. The app developer will also behind the scenes make adjustments to their app to work properly with the latest firmware. If the app cannot find the latest version on the device upon which it is installed it too may malfunction. 

Bottom-line…sometimes refusing to accept updates may cause device issues later on. Just food for thought and not offered as a solution to your issues. 

Together Everyone Achieves More = T.E.A.M.
N
Userlevel 7
Badge +18

I have auto updates turned off for every single piece of gear I own. Watches, phones, computers, Apple TV, and Sonos. If you re-read my original post, I’m saying the reason I know there’s an update is that the Arc quits playing sound. Every single time. 

That really sounds like something is updating. It seems strange that it’s only been happening for a couple of months rather than since you started using Sonos: there’s been more than 10 updates in that time. Do you get any error/warning messages? 

S
Userlevel 7
Badge +15

I don't think you can turn it off specifically on the Sonos app in the Google Play Store, for example.

Yes you can, per App (I think this was discussed a few months back maybe):

 

J

So auto updated are turned off  on whichever app store you use?  I don't think you can turn it off specifically on the Sonos app in the Google Play Store, for example.

Turning off auto updates in the app is not sufficient.

F
Userlevel 1
Badge +3

I have auto updates turned off for every single piece of gear I own. Watches, phones, computers, Apple TV, and Sonos. If you re-read my original post, I’m saying the reason I know there’s an update is that the Arc quits playing sound. Every single time. 

jgatie

In short, they don’t.    Turn off auto udates and reminders for both the hardware and  the app and you won’t even know there is an update.

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